The foreign progamers perspective on esports - Page 8

On January 17 2012 06:01 mTwTT1 wrote:


i want it this bad


User was warned for this post

On January 16 2012 19:42 mTwTT1 wrote:
and where its heading,

Seeing these x-korean leaves x- team in search of a foreign team announcements are starting to become customary these days, i feel like as a foreign player alot of our interests aren't being heard because typically foreign progamers don't voice their issues as much as they should, we just keep the talk between ourselves which doesn't accomplish anything and tbh i feel like sooner or later were going to need an organisation that can represent our interests just so we can legitimize the industry because as it is alot of us are getting fed the shit-end of the stick

now to get to the main issue, I'm all for the globalization of esports and as an sc1 player ive always looked up to the korean players and dreamt of being able to play competitively in korea someday but ill be honest.. ive always wondered why foreign players were never offered the same type of treatment in sc1 that the koreans are currently being offered in sc2, good on them if all the teams and the fans are welcoming them with open arms but afaik when ret tried to become a progamer they chased him out of korea and never gave him an opportunity to do so, they excluded us from everything because we were of no use to them

now to be fair i don't know if the reason why we were ostracized so much from their scene had something to do with kespa, the teams/players or if it had to do with something else but in any case thats not what im here to talk about, what i wanted to voice were a few issues from the players perspesctive

I know as fans u probably wont care much about this because u just want to see high class players representing ur favourite teams(regardless of where they come from) but this is an extremely sensitive issue to the players. Any potential $$ that is going to a korean player is potential money that isn't going to our players, a HUGE portion of the players are being underpaid, the amount of money vs the amount of time we have to put into the game in order to stay competitive is let's say..... very shitty? On top of that we can't get the same type of training that the koreans are getting because our infrastructure fucking blows, now all of a sudden the korean players are saying to themselves "hmmm, not only can we rape all their tournaments but we can probably take over all their teams aswell", whats going to happen to us 5-10 years down the line?

For alot of foreign players its extremely hard to drop everything in our lives just so that we can move to korea in order to keep up with them practice-wise. Why cant we have the same type of training that they have without having to sacrifice a huge portion of our lives? The only foreigner players who wont fall behind the koreans skill wise are the ones who will be willing to sacrifice a huge part of their lives so they can practice over there and alot of those players are either a) young or b) are already financially set, that type of sacrifice wont impact them as much as say a top european or north american foreign player whos in his early-midd twenties and isnt getting paid/isnt willing to sacrifice his life as much as those players which makes that type of sacrifice an extremely high risk thing to do

if things dont change then 3 years from now the high level european/na players are going to live off of their team salarys/stream while playing the occasional online tournament and the skillgap between them and the koreans is going to grow so much that they'll end up being a non factor in tournaments, that being said ull still have the odd 4-5 well paid foreigners practicing in korea who are going to give them a run for their money at each tournament(however theyll fail 95% of the time simply because theyre outnumbered), if ur satisfied with that then im happy for u but unfortunately alot of talented players will never achieve their true potential and we'll never get to know what type of player they would have turned into which to me would be the greatest tragedy in esports

On January 17 2012 08:55 avilo wrote:
Either way...why even focus on korean players getting teams, when imo a bigger issue is why are casters being so overpaid compared to the players that are even making their job possible in the first place?

On January 17 2012 01:04 turdburgler wrote:


i see your FBH and i counter with

On January 16 2012 23:54 Pholon wrote:


Genes/it being in the water is bullshit. Here's what two reasons I think cause the gap

- Koreans had a headstart. Coming from a deeply ingrained BW background the scene quickly developed in KR and were the first to start pro tournaments. Practising with the best makes you better so this headstart only reinforces itselfs and keeps on doing do
- Foreigners aren't tackling the problem properly. You wanna be the best you need to practise with the best. I.e., in this case, go to Korea. The teamhouses are nice and all but you 1) don't practise with the best and 2) they don't follow the same structure as the Korean ones. (KR teamhouse = you have a cook and a cleaner and you sit and play SC all day. Don't want to be too assumptuous etc here but this isn't the case for the EG guys I don't believe).

On top of that it isn't beneficial for teams to send players to Korea. Mtw can boast that Dima did well in the Korean grid of HSC4 while Mouz' Morrow has nothing much to show for (yet after enough Korean training I have faith Morrow will >> Dimaga over time).

Also don't understand your points very well.

- Money and interest in the foreign world into SC2 has been at an all time high.

Yes but where is it going? I mean MLG hands out prizemoney but without having the whole of Code S play (and probably A as well) is this tournament as competitive as it needs to be?

- Lots of players have been moving to Korea temporarily to improve. Wouldn't they sort of bring a higher game when they get back to their home countries and thus increase the level back at their own localities

Dont understand this point

- The game itself has decreased the skill gap between Koreans and the rest of the world in terms of skill requirement and overall necessity for practice.

Assuming you mean "decreased from broodwar": apparently not.

- Koreans have themselves been practicing on the NA/EU ladders occasionally and even moving to foreign teams. Shouldn't that also improve the level of training non-Koreans get?

I highly doubt Nestea/MVP practise on US, and if they do it's only to explore the playstyle.

- There are foreigners who earn a good enough living that they can afford to practice almost as much as the Koreans without having to worry about income sources (players like Destiny)

If Destiny can make an income without having to be good what insentive is there. No idea why this is an argument for gap-closure.

On January 17 2012 14:17 FXOpen wrote:
I think the thing missing from the post is that Koreans are joining foreign teams so they DONT HAVE to practice like Koreans do and still get rewarded.

The infrastructure doesn't exist in the US because "sacrificing my life" isn't in the foreign players vocabulary.

Alot of the korean pros come from poorer backgrounds and are willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. Average Korean player plays more than 8 hours per day, and does it properly making notes and adjusting strategies to the second.

They don't get a solid income from this, but they increase their chances. Alot of the foreign pros play all their games on stream, and other than a select few, I dont see them analysing their own play properly and taking notes and adjusting to try to make a build work which generally means they aren't practicing properly regardless of who they are practicing with.

On January 17 2012 14:17 FXOpen wrote:
I think the thing missing from the post is that Koreans are joining foreign teams so they DONT HAVE to practice like Koreans do and still get rewarded.

The infrastructure doesn't exist in the US because "sacrificing my life" isn't in the foreign players vocabulary.

Alot of the korean pros come from poorer backgrounds and are willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. Average Korean player plays more than 8 hours per day, and does it properly making notes and adjusting strategies to the second.

They don't get a solid income from this, but they increase their chances. Alot of the foreign pros play all their games on stream, and other than a select few, I dont see them analysing their own play properly and taking notes and adjusting to try to make a build work which generally means they aren't practicing properly regardless of who they are practicing with.

On January 17 2012 18:11 spbelky wrote:


This!

While I agree that the Korean scene has an advantage monetarily, that shouldn't stop Foreigners from practicing properly. Unfortunately, the majority of foreigners I've been in contact with, they just Ladder Warrior all day.

There are a ton of problems with Laddering, especially on NA, but quite simply, it's bad practice. In fact, laddering on NA instead of actually practicing in customs or against other pros is counterproductive. You can get away with some really stupid shit, even at the top MMRs of GM on NA... which will only help you develop bad habits / builds / mechanics.

TT1, you want monetary infrastructure? Good, that is a good goal to aim for, but first you need to find someone willing to shell out some money, and nobody in their right mind is going to give their hard earned money to a bunch of dudes who play on the ladder all day and have never had a solid week of practice in their life.

My advice to anyone considering going pro (or anyone who already considers themself a pro), ACT like a PROFESSIONAL and take your PROFESSION seriously... This is not directed at anyone in particular, simply at the foreign scene as a whole. Perhaps if the foreign gamers start practicing more and laddering less, and focusing more on improving than winning ladder games... perhaps then people will take them seriously.

On January 17 2012 16:37 Divinek wrote:

I think the reason why there is the skill gap etc is the same reason Canada is so dominant in hockey. It's simply more popular here. I guarantee you if little americans and europeans ALL grew up with SC2 on their televisions, and all the little boys had aspirations to grow up and be a progamer then we'd dominate ez pz.

On January 16 2012 19:42 mTwTT1 wrote:
Why cant we have the same type of training that they have without having to sacrifice a huge portion of our lives?