EPTBut ya, moving to Korea is a sick option, but it's not required... Thorzain (aside from the few random weeks he was in Korea) never trained in Korea seriously, spent all his time at home, never lived in a house, but he's one of the most precise players out there. It's about HOW you practice. If you play 10 hours a day the right way, it doesn't matter where you live. You will get better.
The foreign progamers perspective on esports - Page 10
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
But ya, moving to Korea is a sick option, but it's not required... Thorzain (aside from the few random weeks he was in Korea) never trained in Korea seriously, spent all his time at home, never lived in a house, but he's one of the most precise players out there. It's about HOW you practice. If you play 10 hours a day the right way, it doesn't matter where you live. You will get better. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
Western progamers should be worried about Koreans "stealing all our jorbs". We need all the motivation we can get because we don't have a team house tradition yet. | ||
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drgoats
United States310 Posts
On January 18 2012 01:03 IdrA wrote: sc1 teams didnt want foreigners cuz we sucked sc2 teams want koreans cuz we suck got to korea or get a different job I love the idra-esque way you put this. However, going to Korea does not seem like the best option if Starcraft is going to continue to grow in the foreign scene. The few of you who have put life aside to pursue your professional careers should be commended but it is not a realistic option for too many up and coming players. If Starcraft II is to continue to grow it needs to find a way that players can stay in their native countries and still be competitive with the Koreans. | ||
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EienShinwa
United States655 Posts
On January 16 2012 19:58 krisss wrote: so what u want to say is: give NA/EU players more money despite they play worse than koreans. rofl. Like a korean progamer doesnt "sacrifice" his life.. ,your argumentation is just silly. Korea is the mekka of esports, Tasteless says is EVERY day. Didnt u listen? when u wanna be good at table tennis, u need to go to china, when u wanna be good in ski-junping, u need to come to EU. As simple as that. Awkward, how ppl become racist when they see their money in danger. User was warned for this post I don't really know why this User was warned for his post, but I think what he's trying to say makes sense. Korean progamers sacrifice as much as foreign progamers do, and likewise, foreign progamers sacrifice as much as korean progamers do. I'm pretty sure it's worse in Korea, as they have a much more stricter, intensely career-focused, and stressful society. And like he says, if you want to be the best at something, go where it's currently the best. Not much more to say than that. | ||
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Dubzex
United States6994 Posts
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imjorman
United States580 Posts
tldr: Play better and whine less. That's a harsh reality that many foreign pros have to come to. Practice as hard as the Koreans, beat them, and the sponsors (therefore the teams) will start noticing. | ||
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
On January 18 2012 10:55 Leeoku wrote: i think u need to look at the culture. gaming in korea is more open/accepted than foreigners tahts why competition so high there thats a myth. | ||
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d9mmdi
Germany179 Posts
koreans coming to foreign teams have to give up alot. they are good because they are willng to sacrifize huge portions of their lifes to gaming. who is he blaming really? nobody is doing anything wrong he says foreigners cant have the same training as koreans, well all its takes is for a number of foreigners to get together and train the same amount as the koreans. they dont. thatswhy the koreans are better and more wanted players? being a progamer is definatly not for everone if a korean puts his life to entertain us give him the money. dont give the money they player who trains less or who trains the same amount but it just not as good, | ||
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
On January 18 2012 06:33 Xeris wrote: People would throw up at the amount of money casters make T_T! Why? They get as much money as the events deems their attraction worthy. If I ran an event and had to buy two people to represent the event to all the viewers, I'd make sure they're well payed as well. They more or less the dictate the viewer experience. I'd rather watch a good caster cast a bad game than watch a good game casted by a bad caster. The same way I'd rather watch IdrA play a group stage game (I'm an IdrA fan) than 2 random pros play a finals. | ||
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Akta
447 Posts
The potential talent in the foreign scene is too spread out compared to Korea which can probably only be solved by large growth of the foreign sc2 esport scene, which is related to next point. I didn't see anyone bring up is the catch 22 like situation of Koreans dominating the foreign scene and "taking the price money". -Foreigners doing well means larger foreign audience which means larger foreign price pools. -Foreigners not doing well means smaller foreign audience which means smaller foreign price pools. And to state the obvious relation to what I mentioned first, there will probably not be a large growth of the foreign scene if Koreans completely dominate the main foreign tournaments. | ||
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CP-Jun
Australia278 Posts
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darkmighty
Brazil48 Posts
From this point of view, SC2 can't compete economically with other jobs. It is an underpaying job which requires high time commitment and a high skill/monetary requirement for initial enrollment, which means you probably have a decent economic condition (for buying SC2, having a good enough computer and being able to sit around in your PC all day). For this kind of 'worker', the alternatives are: A) much easier to enroll, and have a much higher success rate; and B) pay many times as much. Alternatives include like web/design programming jobs, getting some minor degree, and even manufacturing jobs probably will make you earn more even if you take into account the probability that you will enroll in a top team/win tournaments vs the sum of money you could make, i.e. the expected value of each (I'm pretty sure about this; tough this is true for many other jobs where glamour is involved, like in the artistic world/some other sports). On the other hand, from the Korean standpoint: From their POV, SC2 is competitive (and getting better). You probably don't need a very good economic condition to compete, given Korea's broadband penetration/PC-centric tech culture. I don't know Korea's economy too digress to much about this, but you can probably say: A) the alternatives are not much easier to enroll -- take a look at Korea's academic competitiveness for example, and with proper training you have high chances of getting into a team; and B) given your chances with getting a good quality job and all and the incentives already in place for eSports (the structure), the expected value maybe be comparable to alternatives. Pour in the glamour of being an eSport god in Korea, and its all very attractive. So yes, the argument makes sense from that standpoint. And changing that is not easy at all. I think Blizzard could actually help out the foreign scene kickstart a little bit by making pro house subsidies or something, intead of just draining money from the scene, in it's own self-interest. | ||
Chill
Calgary25986 Posts
On January 18 2012 10:22 Dubzex wrote: This is worse than the girl blogs. Your wanting of people to to just accept a worse product and pay the same amount is absolutely ridiculous. If you can't handle the competition, then maybe being a professional gamer isn't for you. Yea that's pretty much how I feel too. Progaming is a shitty job. You have to work ridiculously hard to compete. If you don't like it, then get a better-suited job. Don't argue that we should accept mediocrity. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
On January 16 2012 19:42 mTwTT1 wrote: a HUGE portion of the players are being underpaid, the amount of money vs the amount of time we have to put into the game in order to stay competitive is let's say..... very shitty? Putting in a lot of time for little money isn't being underpaid. Your average foreigner isn't someone like idra, who can command $$ because he's one of the top foreigners and everyone who is remotely attracted to thef ield knows who he is. Instead, he has little to no name recognition and no notable results. There's no value in that, the team and sponsors aren't making shit on those people. Your average foreigner is easily replaceable, much like the dude who throws lettuce on your burger at BK. It's a shitty job, not underpayment. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:42 Chill wrote: Yea that's pretty much how I feel too. Progaming is a shitty job. You have to work ridiculously hard to compete. If you don't like it, then get a better-suited job. Don't argue that we should accept mediocrity. CHILL FOR NEXT BONJWA | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
now to get to the main issue, I'm all for the globalization of university education and as a masters degree graduate ive always looked up to the people with jobs and dreamt of being able to find proper employment someday but ill be honest.. ive always wondered why fresh graduates were never offered the same type of treatment in the job market that the experienced but unemployed are currently being offered in this current market, good on them if all the companies and the government are welcoming them with open arms but afaik when a friend tried to get a job out of high school they chased him into university and never gave him an opportunity to do so, they excluded us from everything because we were of no use to them now to be fair i don't know if the reason why we were ostracized so much from the market had something to do with Bush, the companies/government or if it had to do with something else but in any case thats not what im here to talk about, what i wanted to voice were a few issues from the fresh graduate’s perspesctive I know as people with jobs u probably wont care much about this because u just want to see people who supposedly know what they’re doing performing jobs that may directly affect you (regardless of whether they are actually skilled enough to pull it off) but this is an extremely sensitive issue to the fresh graduates. Any potential $$ that is going to a veteran worker is potential money that isn't going to the fresh graduates, a HUGE portion of the fresh graduates are being underpaid, the amount of money vs the amount of time we have to put into learning the skills in order to stay competitive is let's say..... very shitty? On top of that we can't get the same type of training that the experienced workers are getting because our infrastructure fucking blows, now all of a sudden the experienced workers are saying to themselves "hmmm, we need a job but we can probably just start taking entry level ones again", whats going to happen to us 5-10 years down the line? For alot of fresh graduates its extremely hard to drop everything in our lives just so that we can move out of home in order to keep up with them opportunity-wise. Why cant we have the same type of training that they have without having to sacrifice a huge portion of our lives? The only fresh graduates who wont fall behind the experienced workers skill wise are the ones who will be willing to sacrifice a huge part of their lives during school so they can get internships and such and alot of those players are either a) young or b) are already financially set, that type of sacrifice wont impact them as much as say a masters graduate or PhD graduate whos in his early-midd twenties and isnt getting paid/isnt willing to sacrifice his life as much as those experienced workers with nothing else to do which makes that type of sacrifice an extremely high risk thing to do if things dont change then 3 years from now the fresh graduates are going to live off of their parents while working the odd Micky D’s and the experience gap between them and the experienced workers is going to grow so much that they'll end up being a non factor in the job market, that being said ull still have the odd 4-5 well paid PhD graduates working their high-pay jobs who are going to give them a run for their money at every job opportunity (however theyll fail 95% of the time simply because theyre outnumbered), if ur satisfied with that then im happy for u but unfortunately alot of talented people will never achieve their true potential and we'll never get to know what type of people they would have turned into which to me would be the greatest tragedy in the world | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On January 18 2012 17:36 Cuddle wrote: Why? They get as much money as the events deems their attraction worthy. If I ran an event and had to buy two people to represent the event to all the viewers, I'd make sure they're well payed as well. They more or less the dictate the viewer experience. I'd rather watch a good caster cast a bad game than watch a good game casted by a bad caster. The same way I'd rather watch IdrA play a group stage game (I'm an IdrA fan) than 2 random pros play a finals. Because some of the best potential casters are current players. Like if Idra or Huk were making shit money while practicing 10 hours a day, relying on prize money, they might just say fuck this I'm going into casting because I have an easier lifestyle and I'll make more money. I'm not saying casters just pick up a mic and cast but they definitely have more free time compared to players, less stress and their performance is more forgiving. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32083 Posts
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