EPTThe foreign progamers perspective on esports - Page 4
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HuK
Canada1591 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:17 1sz2sz3sz wrote: I dont understand why so many foreign teams are wasting money sending mediocre players to Korea. You dont speak a work of Korean, so you can thoroughly discuss strats with the KR Pros Youre most likely hanging out with foreigners all day in GOM house getting drunk Laddering all day which you could do from home on the KR ladder just with a bit of lag Do people think its the water? the lag from here is bad enough that practicing on KR ladder is pointless | ||
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Xenorawks
158 Posts
Well EG has an awesome one, but you don't see all of their players kicking ass left and right. The few who really stand up to the koreans are Idra and Huk (aside from Puma and JYP). So, why can Idra and Huk get into Code S while others training in the teamhouse don't seem to be showing much results? Teamhouse is a factor but it ain't everything. If someone throw you and another 9 guys into a teamhouse, will you produce results like those coming out of the Slayers house or would it end up like another... you know? I'm not saying the players are not working hard there, but you can't deny there isn't a huge difference between them and a korean teamhouse. No one's asking you to be top 8 at every tournament you join but if you're good, like maybe... Stephano? You don't need a teamhouse to be winning IEMs, ESWC, Shoutcraft bla bla bla Your argument is kind of invalid. You mentioned a lot of good points in your post, but what do you want us to do about it?? You want every foreign team to sponsor their players to korea to train there? It's nobody's fault if you can't or your team can't do that. Let's say I want to study in some awesome university in UK but I don't have the money to do so, do I make a post at some forum and complain? You have to admit, majority of the people living in NA/EU are better off financially compared to most people at other parts of the world. It's also the same shit as, I'm Asian I love soccer but I can't do shit unless I go to some famous football club to train in the UK since young or I'll never make a name for myself in such a puny country I come from where soccer is not well-known for. You seem to have written a lot, but it doesn't seem like you came up with any brilliant solutions to it. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:16 Wombat_NI wrote: It's not JUST hard work that makes Koreans stronger players on average. Despite the regular pounding he gets on here Naniwa is renowned for having a monstrous work ethic. Remember when he first became a monster and destroyed an MLG with some ridiculous sets score like 24-2 or something? The guy was so far ahead of most of the foreign scene based on hard work and some latent talent, but in the end he started stagnating and acknowledged that he had to move to Korea to achieve his personal dream of being the best player in the world. Incidentally, I don't know what the majority of TL users even want in their players anyway. Naniwa, even before 'probegate' seemed to attract his fair share of haters, but he's one of the few foreigners who seem to reach the 'standards of practice' that we demand of our pro players. People are saying that Koreans sacrifice a ton to move into pro-houses with the only mitigating factor being that they get to stay in their home country. This is a huge, huge difference compared to what a foreigner sacrifices to move to Korea. I would be perfectly happy to sacrifice a year or two to pursue something like playing professionally if it was within my own culture/within reach of family if things go wrong. I could even envisage (if I was good which I'm not  ) moving to the European mainland at a stretch.On another point I recall Artosis and others talking about a global beta server when it first came out, and how it had latency reduction and was very playable. Why couldn't Blizzard try and do this by opening a cross-server 'pro's only' server with some kind of fee to be paid for it to make it worth their while. As it is top pros are making out that laddering on US and EU is becoming redundant, so looking for ways for the foreign scene to improve without upping sticks and all moving to Seoul should be done. I guarantee you that if the best possible place to be for sc2 was NA/EU, 90% of the korean progamers would be willing to pick up and move to pursue their dreams. Also TT1, I'm not saying you're bad, but you're not A level foreigner. There's no reason to complain about your training environment when you have plenty of room to improve yourself in the foreign scene. And NA > KR latency isn't so bad that you can't practice on their servers. If you wanna QQ that you can't talk about strategies with koreans, then how is that in any way shape or form the fault of other teams picking up koreans? | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
Also, but maybe Idra, no one ever accepted / went through the modern sc1 training regiment in Korea, because it's too hard and life is too miserable there. The few foreign players actually winning stuff in sc2 get salaries. Big lans are open tournaments most of the time, and to be honest, I believe some sub par foreign competitors are getting a pretty unfair treatment compared to some koreans who are of much higher skill caliber and still win those tournaments. See leenock for instance. | ||
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Enfield
8 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:24 Enfield wrote: Most Foreign players are boring to watch sadly, including your self not sure wtf was the point of this comment | ||
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KicKDoG
Sweden765 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:24 Enfield wrote: Most Foreign players are boring to watch sadly, including your self Uh.. ok? Why are you even bringing this up? This doesn't help at all.. | ||
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Enfield
8 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:25 ReignFayth wrote: not sure wtf was the point of this comment Well i'm not sure what the point of the post was, is it about him been underpaid? And i was confriming what he said about only caring about the best players, which is why im interested in watching Sc2. | ||
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Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:27 KicKDoG wrote: Uh.. ok? Why are you even bringing this up? This doesn't help at all.. Probably because there are two ways of earning money in sports: 1. Win stuff. 2. Be so entertaining that you have a worth regardless of results. Have one or both and sponsors will have something worth their while. Have neither and you will have to think long and hard about who would want to pay you money to play a videogame. | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
I know this is not SC1 but thoughout the history of mankind, this is the best time to live in if you're a progamer. If you're decently good (nothing compared to lower tier koreans however, no offense but look at desrow), you already got a team, which is not much, but actually pays. Then there you have streaming and millions of tournaments. | ||
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
When I was packing away my father's belongings, I realized we didn't have a single family picture. My father worked in Japan to earn our family money since I was very young. I never saw my father in elementary and middle school. When he came back, I was already part of a team and living in a dormitory, so I never saw him. Before my father passed away, he suggested that we go on a vacation to Jaeju island. He suggested it when he was healthy, but then was admitted to a hospital and passed away in less than a week. We missed the opportunity to go on our first family vacation in 20 years. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On January 16 2012 19:42 mTwTT1 wrote: ive always wondered why foreign players were never offered the same type of treatment in sc1 that the koreans are currently being offered in sc2, good on them if all the teams and the fans are welcoming them with open arms but afaik when ret tried to become a progamer they chased him out of korea and never gave him an opportunity to do so, they excluded us from everything because we were of no use to them Not to be disrespectful to any non-korean players out there but why should any player get good treatment? Well, it's not that hard to understand. Many pro-players from Korea have the talent to perform well internationally and earn his team money. Foreign teams aren't acquiring pro-players from Korea because they want to give Koreans international practice or help them learn english. They win games, earn money and draw attention to their teams. pro SC2 and other e-sports suffer from the same dilemma. You need to perform results and show yourself before anyone shows interest for you. If you are good enough teams in Korea will notice you. But atm there are too few foreign players that are good enough to be of value for Korean teams. | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:01 winthrop wrote: tbh are you competitive in Korea? PS:Better players always have higher income "Better players always have higher income" This statement is near the zenith of Mt Bullshit. There are many incredible players that aren't sponsored, or Korean B-teamers that are better than "top" foreigners. Skill != money, ESPORTS is a business. | ||
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:40 papaz wrote: pro SC2 and other e-sports suffer from the same dilemma. You need to perform results and show yourself before anyone shows interest for you. If you are good enough teams in Korea will notice you. But atm there are too few foreign players that are good enough to be of value for Korean teams. I think this touches on another problem with non-Korean teams: because there's no emphasis on team play or in-house practice they don't have any rookies or B teamers. If you're an up and coming sc2 player your only hope of getting picked up is by gaining popularity through streaming. | ||
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scMellOw
Belgium29 Posts
Look at moon, the guy focussed on 2 games at the same time yet got 2nd places at a couple of decent/big tournaments, when he switches over completely, teams know that he's got so much talent & that's what they're searching for.. A good player isn't only making a name for himself but also for the team he plays for so.. I think it's only natural that in a sense, not completely but still, in a sense, talent & skill & performances make the difference. Though, dropping moon in here might've been a bad example as he's still for hire & doesn't have a team yet but oh well, you get my point. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
love u payam | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
It's just how the "sport" is atm. There's lots of potential, too little money, and one nation that has a huge edge. | ||
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Candide
456 Posts
On January 16 2012 20:59 KawaiiRice wrote: I read this as the thoughts of a foreign pro which seemed incredibly accurate (because read the title... "The foreign progamers perspective on esports"), yet people are reading it like TT1 is whining/begging for sympathy/wanting to get more money... wtf ~~ love u payam Sure it is accurate but he is only stating the obvious and asking for the unattainable... to me anyways. He argues that Koreans do not sacrifice nearly as much as europeans or NA because they live in korea. Do you realize how large South Korea is? it isn't some small city where someone can take a bus ride home for a weekend, its significantly larger and a lot of the players give up social/academic lives to pursue what they want. One in a million(Polt) can attend a prestigious university and still play sc2, players like nada as well but we are talking very few numbers. A lot of people are really harsh on their criticisms but are technically right. You need to make larger sacrifices to overcome such barriers. At this point in your life if you don't think you can dedicate the time to be the best then so be it. The bar only goes up from here, never down. | ||
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