It's like every BW progamer has no personality. Most of them are too similar and indistinguishable (thank you Zero, Leta, Hyun) And yes, personality is a huge part of every sport including e-sports. THERE IS ALSO VIRTUALLY NO DIFFERENCE IN THEIR BACKGROUNDS.
That's one huge drawback from SC2. And something I hope SC2 doesn't resort to. SC2 has a huge variety. High level players from all over the world. Former WC3 players, BW bonjwas, BW failures. Some random college kids like Polt.
I don't want to see the entire progaming body to be filled with young lifeless robots. Perhaps the worst part is watching progamers who are only in their early 20s become "too old" to keep up. Nothing more tragic than watching guys like Free, Midas, Stork suddenly enter the age of obscurity.
I want to see....
- foreigners who can compete on comparable levels - old dudes like Nestea, Boxer, White-Ra - douchebags like Idra
Is this ever gonna change? Or are we gonna follow this pattern until BW ends? I'm willing to watch lower quality games if the players become more interesting. Anyone with me?
On June 25 2011 13:31 dani_caliKorea wrote: Lettuce be cereal.
It's like every BW progamer has no personality. Most of them are too similar and indistinguishable (thank you Zero, Leta, Hyun) And yes, personality is a huge part of every sport including e-sports.
That's one huge drawback from SC2. And something I hope SC2 doesn't resort to. SC2 has a huge variety. High level players from all over the world. Former WC3 players, BW bonjwas, BW failures. Some random college kids like Polt.
I don't want to see the entire progaming body to be filled with young lifeless robots. Perhaps the worst part is watching progamers who are only in their early 20s become "too old" to keep up. Nothing more tragic than watching guys like Free, Midas, Stork suddenly enter the age of obscurity.
I want to see....
- foreigners who can compete on comparable levels - old dudes like Nestea, Boxer, White-Ra - douchebags like Idra
Is this ever gonna change? Or are we gonna follow this pattern until BW ends? I'm willing to watch lower quality games if the players become more interesting. Anyone with me?
No.
There's alot of personality in BW, it's just that everyone isn't bad mannered like in SC2.
On June 25 2011 13:31 dani_caliKorea wrote: Lettuce be cereal.
It's like every BW progamer has no personality. Most of them are too similar and indistinguishable (thank you Zero, Leta, Hyun) And yes, personality is a huge part of every sport including e-sports.
That's one huge drawback from SC2. And something I hope SC2 doesn't resort to. SC2 has a huge variety. High level players from all over the world. Former WC3 players, BW bonjwas, BW failures. Some random college kids like Polt.
I don't want to see the entire progaming body to be filled with young lifeless robots. Perhaps the worst part is watching progamers who are only in their early 20s become "too old" to keep up. Nothing more tragic than watching guys like Free, Midas, Stork suddenly enter the age of obscurity.
I want to see....
- foreigners who can compete on comparable levels - old dudes like Nestea, Boxer, White-Ra - douchebags like Idra
Is this ever gonna change? Or are we gonna follow this pattern until BW ends? I'm willing to watch lower quality games if the players become more interesting. Anyone with me?
No.
There's alot of personality in BW, it's just that everyone isn't bad mannered like in SC2.
@ OP: Seriously, do some research before you post something so stupid
It sure takes a lot of personality to give a "thumbs down" after winning a game, or the fact that you're told to have a personality (poltprime: oh you're in code A? OH DIS ON MMA).Oh you koreans, so much more personality in sc2!
Some do have more, but there is plenty of personality in sc1. Just it shows up in group selections, soulkey/zero, fbh, etc etc.
Maybe it's because BroodWar is such a hard game to play and master, and these BW Pro gamers are playing so amazingly, that afterwards the last thing they are thinking about is showing some personality, because they are probably tired as shit from playing this badass, amazing, challenging game! But the reward is worth it!!
Ever read interviews or watched a group selection? I doubt it. Just because progamers don't do something after every game they play doesn't mean they are robots.
To be fair: it's hard to judge player's personalities when you don't speak their language, and only exposure comes from translations that happen every other week (more or less, depending on the player's success) where the diction is changed by the Chinese translator, then the English translators.
And after saying how you want different personalities, you then talk about all the different backgrounds that sc2 players have, and how you want bw players with different backgrounds.
You picked a strange line up to support your "no personality" theory. Zero? Master of awkwardness and Troll face. Hyun? Have you seen his group selection ceremonies?
I like the personalities in BW. They're usually all likeable and well-mannered but pretty unique and interesting.
Also, the age isn't too different from most Olympic sports. You usually start competing around your teens and are considered really old as you near 30. Obviously a few sports like basketball allow you to play for a little longer because the team isn't dependent on you for an entire game.
On June 25 2011 13:51 erin[go]bragh wrote: You picked a strange line up to support your "no personality" theory. Zero? Master of awkwardness and Troll face. Hyun? Have you seen his group selection ceremonies?
Defensive dudes stop assuming I dont follow the BW scene.
I have raised valid points, read through my entire post and respond to all of it, instead of nitpicking and offering your shit opinions in 1 line. At least I explained where i'm coming from.
On June 25 2011 13:51 erin[go]bragh wrote: You picked a strange line up to support your "no personality" theory. Zero? Master of awkwardness and Troll face. Hyun? Have you seen his group selection ceremonies?
I said Thank you as in thank you for being exceptions
What a troll.... You dont really get to know their personalities cause you cant understand Korean. Have you even watch pro-BW or follow its scene? There are a lot of personalities, but you cant understand what they say... GO watch Nal_rA old boy or stuff like that. Have you ever seen behind the scene? Out of game scene?? No right? If you had, you wont be posting a stupid post like this. This is just asking for flame...
I also feel its worth it to point out that guys like Bisu, Jaedong, Stork, Sea, and Zero are all in their early 20s, and still kicking ass. We'll see what happens when they hit 25, but really, every sport has it's age range.
On June 25 2011 13:51 erin[go]bragh wrote: You picked a strange line up to support your "no personality" theory. Zero? Master of awkwardness and Troll face. Hyun? Have you seen his group selection ceremonies?
I said Thank you as in thank you for being exceptions
On June 25 2011 13:51 erin[go]bragh wrote: You picked a strange line up to support your "no personality" theory. Zero? Master of awkwardness and Troll face. Hyun? Have you seen his group selection ceremonies?
In fact, one of the reasons why BW progaming took off in Korea was player personalities as well, that is what attracted fans to stay around. Spectators don't just watch the games, they want to see the person playing as well.
On June 25 2011 13:58 dani_caliKorea wrote: Strong reading skills in this thread
Strong attacks on me instead of the topic.
Goodjob TL.
Although the attacks are unnecessary, you kind of asked for it by phrasing the OP in such a horrid way. You could've asked "will the variety in SC2 remain?" instead of "So BW progamers have no personality and SC2 progamers do... will it stay that way?" You didn't need to mention BW at all.
On June 25 2011 13:59 Black[CAT] wrote: In fact, one of the reasons why BW progaming took off in Korea was player personalities as well, that is what attracted fans to stay around. Spectators don't just watch the games, they want to see the person playing as well.
Thank you. You know how sexy Yellow, Boxer, REACH, XELLOS were at that time? When's the last sexy progamer debut since Bisu's in 2006 (or was it 2005)
On June 25 2011 13:58 dani_caliKorea wrote: Strong reading skills in this thread
Strong attacks on me instead of the topic.
Goodjob TL.
Although the attacks are unnecessary, you kind of asked for it by phrasing the OP in such a horrid way. You could've asked "will the variety in SC2 remain?" instead of "So BW progamers have no personality and SC2 progamers do... will it stay that way?" You didn't need to mention BW at all.
On June 25 2011 13:58 dani_caliKorea wrote: Strong reading skills in this thread
Strong attacks on me instead of the topic.
Goodjob TL.
Although the attacks are unnecessary, you kind of asked for it by phrasing the OP in such a horrid way. You could've asked "will the variety in SC2 remain?" instead of "So BW progamers have no personality and SC2 progamers do... will it stay that way?" You didn't need to mention BW at all.
This topic is about BW....
I know it's about BW... I'm saying it didn't need to be. The only reason it is about BW is because of how inflammatory you made it towards BW, therefore you should expect attacks on you...
This is so close to be a troll thread.... Leta no personality (Leta fan) You are talking about the guy that crossdressing and have the best wraith micro?? + Show Spoiler +
Foreigners will never be able to beat A class koreans (Zero might probably switch to sc2 so we will see....) The reason why sc2 is infested with BW failure AND old bonjwas is because they have no future in the bw proscene WC3 players moved to sc2 because warcraft scene have died There is no reasons to stick to a game with no pro scene even if you are the best (moon & gruby) Idra was always a douchebag !!
On June 25 2011 14:11 dani_caliKorea wrote: Now I'm just waiting for some "respected" member to defend/agree with me to a certain extent. Then i'm sure all the nice posts will roll in.
SC2 has progamers age range from the likes of Nestea and White Ra to young guys like Squirtle. (anything from 1980-early teens)
The only age for BW competitive play is like 1990-93. Even Bisu is getting old guys.
You're complaining the standard of play is too high in BW. I can only hope you don't get much support.
On June 25 2011 14:14 therockmanxx wrote: This is so close to be a troll thread.... Leta no personality (Leta fan) You are talking about the guy that crossdressing and have the best wraith micro?? + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO3CdlZKtp4
Foreigners will never be able to beat A class koreans (Zero might probably switch to sc2 so we will see....) The reason why sc2 is infested with BW failure AND old bonjwas is because they have no future in the bw proscene WC3 players moved to sc2 because warcraft scene have died There is no reasons to stick to a game with no pro scene even if you are the best (moon & gruby) Idra was always a douchebag !!
On June 25 2011 14:11 dani_caliKorea wrote: Now I'm just waiting for some "respected" member to defend/agree with me to a certain extent. Then i'm sure all the nice posts will roll in.
SC2 has progamers age range from the likes of Nestea and White Ra to young guys like Squirtle. (anything from 1980-early teens)
The only age for BW competitive play is like 1990-93. Even Bisu is getting old guys.
You're complaining the standard of play is too high in BW. I can only hope you don't get much support.
Too much of a good thing is bad, no? I dont want to watch Flash break his wrist off.
KeSPA are sort of against people typing in game or having personality, but if you were just watching the KT vs Fox (which I doubt you were) you would have seen a ton of personality... and old dudes.
On June 25 2011 14:11 dani_caliKorea wrote: Now I'm just waiting for some "respected" member to defend/agree with me to a certain extent. Then i'm sure all the nice posts will roll in.
SC2 has progamers age range from the likes of Nestea and White Ra to young guys like Squirtle. (anything from 1980-early teens)
The only age for BW competitive play is like 1990-93. Even Bisu is getting old guys.
You're complaining the standard of play is too high in BW. I can only hope you don't get much support.
Too much of a good thing is bad, no? I dont want to watch Flash break his wrist off.
wutisthisidonteven......
Are you really saying that that BW games are too good?
On June 25 2011 14:11 dani_caliKorea wrote: Now I'm just waiting for some "respected" member to defend/agree with me to a certain extent. Then i'm sure all the nice posts will roll in.
SC2 has progamers age range from the likes of Nestea and White Ra to young guys like Squirtle. (anything from 1980-early teens)
The only age for BW competitive play is like 1990-93. Even Bisu is getting old guys.
You're complaining the standard of play is too high in BW. I can only hope you don't get much support.
Too much of a good thing is bad, no? I dont want to watch Flash break his wrist off.
As long as players really want to win and practicing more can bring them those wins then they will put in all those hours. Do you want to force players to limit practice hours? Or a game where players don't get much benefit from extra practice? Or progamers who don't have the drive to win necessary to put in those hours? Because none of those things make sense in a competitive game imo.
You think they have no personalities and no difference in their backgrounds because you don't know enough about them. There are many players out there, even the B-teamers, who have great stories behind them, it's just that you're not aware of it.
Personally, I find BW players more interesting than SC2 players. Have you seen Nal Ra's oldboy series or Hyung Jun becomes a pro gamer? Have you seen OSL/MSL prelims, and group stages? BW pros are some amazing people. Sure there isn't as much BM and negative drama in BW as there is in SC2, but they do a lot more with expressing their personalities and backgrounds, and showing the lives of pros behind the scenes.
On June 25 2011 14:11 dani_caliKorea wrote: Now I'm just waiting for some "respected" member to defend/agree with me to a certain extent. Then i'm sure all the nice posts will roll in.
SC2 has progamers age range from the likes of Nestea and White Ra to young guys like Squirtle. (anything from 1980-early teens)
The only age for BW competitive play is like 1990-93. Even Bisu is getting old guys.
Even Bisu's getting old. And he's still dominating. Many players from his generation are still playing strongly, Players before Bisu's generation mostly relied on innovations to get by, and lacked the strong mechanics that all pros now have. That's why older progamers are not really around anymore, because it requires innovation and strong mechanics to stay relevant in today's BW Progaming.
On June 25 2011 13:38 dani_caliKorea wrote: You guys seriously enjoying the immensely limitation of a BW progamer?
brb training 14 hours a day brb having a optimum career for few years max
I wish some of those guys from My OSL can compete actively
Ok forget personality. The age range of a progamer is ridic stupid
First of all, BW prohouses range from 8-12 mandatory hours, not 14. But top, dedicated progamers practice 14+ hours a day to stay up there. SC2 is approaching the same type of practicing regimen style anyways. Compare SlayerS and TSL: TSL founded to have "relaxed" practice regimens, whereas SlayerS applied the lessons from BW and enforced a rigorous 10+ hour (need to confirm exact number) practice schedule. And the result difference between the two teams are enormous. Those who decide to not put in the hours needed will fall behind.
You wish MyOSL amateurs could actually compete? Well they can: after they have at least a year or two in the B-Teamer house. It's like you expect a BBall amateur to be able to actively compete in the NBA ezpz? You don't see random low-Master league players being able to compete with the Code S do you?
and your personality argument is entirely subjective, and ignorant. BW progamers have their personalities you can see from their twitters, interviews, homepages and pictures: which only a select few get shown in the foreign community. Not to mention you don't understand how Korean culture seems to work either: its nice to see some public cockinesss and such, but if you do so and also end up losing, the Korean netizens will TEAR YOU APART.
I just used SC2 as a comparison, I barely even watch sc2.
A decrease in Broodwar's popularity will not come from lack of skills but lack of star power. I highly doubt we will ever see the new gamers who can match the popularity of Reach, Xellos, or Hwasin in the future.
Disregarding your somewhat misinformed premises, I like:
that the BW skill gradient is so large that only a select few can be competitive, with extreme practice. that everyone did not have grand, delusional aspirations of making it as a progamer. the separation between the Korean and foreigner scenes. that that meant the foreigner scene didn't take itself as seriously. the general level of professionalism of Korean BW.
I mostly dislike the SC2 scene for converse reasons. Am I alone?
based on ur post history i can see u are legit BW fan. But really dont compare ur shit to sc2 cuase ppl are just gonna assume u are some random sc2 noob BMing BW
you say BW doesn't have enough difference between progamers, but two of the criteria you used to differentiate between SC2 pro's were BW based attributes.
I'm pretty new to SC progamer scene, having only been introed in November by friends. Not the respected forum leader you want to hear from but from reading this all I'm thinking is:
On June 25 2011 15:27 dani_caliKorea wrote: I just used SC2 as a comparison, I barely even watch sc2.
A decrease in Broodwar's popularity will not come from lack of skills but lack of star power. I highly doubt we will ever see the new gamers who can match the popularity of Reach, Xellos, or Hwasin in the future.
Nobody really cares about personality anyways, its the looks that matter for progaming lol, you were using the wrong comparisons..
Real sports can take their toll on a body. Lots of players retire either because they're afraid of getting injured as they grow older, or because they have been injured. That's why there is a somewhat limited 'prime' for players which cuts off at about 30.
Could we enforce labour laws that say you can't practice StarCraft for more than 8 hours a day? I guess, but people suffer for their craft. There is no need to artificially lengthen the careers of players who are no longer competitive. BW is special because people are willing to put that kind of dedication in what is, after all a video game. The same way people are willing to put dedication to Hockey, which is, after all, a game. I for one don't care what a bunch of people dicking around look like, I want people who care about what they do. I'm not going to read the novel by someone who doesn't care but has a nice smile, I gonna read the novel that soggy pages from the sweat of someone who takes what they do seriously
This is not a response to the OP, who doesn't deserve one. This is a response to the idea that BroodWar pro's lives are overworked or that there is a tragedy they can't play with 20 somethings into their 40s. This is a game with a physical aspect. If you want a purely strategic game, watch Go (awesome in its own right) or something.
In korea, reputation is everyting. remember, doing untactful shit = lose relationships and like idra did, so no practice partners etc. u cant fuck around in that country.
i actually agree with him to some point. he over exaggerates it quite a bit though. they aren't just robots, but sc2 appears to have more personality because the game isn't as professional yet. it's just another esport, it aint bw in korea. this allows people to speak their minds and do w/e the hell they want pretty much. it also allows foreigners to get involved, and we automatically feel more connected to foreigners than koreans (some of us).
seriously though interviewing jd or flash is the same thing every time.
"how was your game"
"it was difficult and i hope to practice more"
"was that easier than you thought?"
"no i need to practice more"
"in game 3 you pulled out a special build, was that planned?"
"yes i practiced and made it up"
of course that's just culture. but it's e-sports, you're bound to have more nerds and social outcasts with no personality than most other sports
On June 26 2011 08:07 shawster wrote: i actually agree with him to some point. he over exaggerates it quite a bit though. they aren't just robots, but sc2 appears to have more personality because the game isn't as professional yet. it's just another esport, it aint bw in korea. this allows people to speak their minds and do w/e the hell they want pretty much. it also allows foreigners to get involved, and we automatically feel more connected to foreigners than koreans (some of us).
seriously though interviewing jd or flash is the same thing every time.
"how was your game"
"it was difficult and i hope to practice more"
"was that easier than you thought?"
"no i need to practice more"
"in game 3 you pulled out a special build, was that planned?"
"yes i practiced and made it up"
of course that's just culture. but it's e-sports, you're bound to have more nerds and social outcasts with no personality than most other sports
Your thinking of Flash / Bisu. Jaedong isn't really like that, neither is Stork.
Remember the time Jaedong said his opponent played like the computer?
Also being translations it doesn't help in getting the full nuance across.
I guess a lot of it for me is the whole "I dont speak korean" thing. :D I've watched quite a bit of BW but never any translated shows like Old Boy or anything. So I really dont know diddly squat about anyones personality.
Contrast that with sc2, where mostly everything is available in english and I get to understand wtf is happening.
On June 26 2011 09:08 Bibbit wrote: I guess a lot of it for me is the whole "I dont speak korean" thing. :D I've watched quite a bit of BW but never any translated shows like Old Boy or anything. So I really dont know diddly squat about anyones personality.
Contrast that with sc2, where mostly everything is available in english and I get to understand wtf is happening.
You *really* need to watch the Old Boy shows then, it reveals so many subtle things in progaming culture that you wouldn't see through the matches or official interviews.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2UdZu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vhm6F.gif)
