.......I have nothing to add to that really.
Zerg is going to win GSL2 (ez) Z>T - Page 2
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HwangjaeTerran
Finland5963 Posts
.......I have nothing to add to that really. | ||
KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On October 26 2010 04:59 imPERSONater wrote: I bet Sen wishes he knew this before playing Loner. I don't see how the posts "You are playing your race wrong" aren't applicable anymore (as a similar sentiment was told to zergs when they complained). Terrans have been heavily affected by the new patches, however, there aren't many harassment options in the zerg early game arsenal that I have noticed besides zerglings so maybe the fast expand is the correct answer for Terrans as well. Granted I am not nearly at the level of the pros (and yourself OP), but fruitdealer and IdrA win most games deflecting an early terran attack and then using their early expo to pull ahead. Why can't terrans employ a similar strategy? Just a week and and half does seem a bit early to be making these overarching statements as the poster above me stated. Both parts of your statement contradict your idea. 1) What early zerg attack? 2) You expoing puts you behind since they expoed and have larva mechanic. t t!;; | ||
SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
People made fun of Zerg players pre-patch, saying "all you need to do is change your style". You know, the whole 'just figure it out' deal. And now when Terran's early game gets nerfed, the same people who insulted Zerg players for being upset in the first place are the ones crying and not even heeding their original advice. If Zerg figured out how to deal with Terran, then maybe it is time some Terran players learn something other than reaper openings and proxy barracks. Everyone is one-dimensional, playing with siege tank/marine, then saying how imbalanced this shit is when they can't even adjust lol. I'm not saying anything in regards to balance, I just find it so funny. Especially when players like QXC and Brat_OK are prime examples of people who are experimenting and finding success with other builds. | ||
Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
On October 26 2010 04:56 frogmelter wrote: Well as of right now, I agree that zerg has a massive advantage over Terran. Roaches can block any harassment that you do and if don't pressure zerg, they have a million and a half more drones than you do. Zerg lategame is really difficult to deal with as Terran. Zerg lategame with zerg having an economic advantage is even more difficult. You have to rely on the zerg making some crazy errors. Since these people are pros, it's unlikely that such an error would occur. So yes, I second the thought that Zerg is going to win the GSLs quite handily UNLESS another patch comes. You are kidding me. TvP is not Terran favored. It's true that Terran early game is stronger than Protoss early game, but with the depot before rax junk it's not as big of an advantage. Protoss late game totally trashes Terran. Think about it this way. For Terran, you start out with marines, marauders, medivacs, and maybe ghosts and maybe vikings. When you end, you end with the same exact units. Except Protoss late game can spam 75 energy temps and Colossi that deal over a hundred damage per shot. And just because zerg was underpowered at a point does not make for a good argument that zerg should be overpowered for a time period 'to make up for it'. The supply before rax barely affects the tvp matchup at all. No one used reapers against protoss, and not many people did a bbs against terran. And if you can start out with so many units, you can harass. That's what terran is in sc2, its about harass. No other race can get t3 units as fast as you. You can get thors superfast, and even bcs really fast, but zerg and protoss take very long to get those units. And if you allow protoss to get a lot of temps and colossi, thats your fault. Temps and colossi require a crapload of gas, and therefore you need a lot of expansions. You don't let a toss do that, just like how a toss doesn't allow zergs to macro up like that in the pvz matchup | ||
imPERSONater
United States1324 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:02 frogmelter wrote: Doesn't work. Zerg macro >>> Terran macro. If Terran doesn't pressure, he flat out loses. Larvae inject lets zerg drone up WAYYYY faster than Terran. The hardest strat for me to deal with as zerg during the terran domination days was a terran that expanded to two bases and then turtled before a death push. Terrans got away from that once they realized literally every unit was great at harassing early game zergs but I don't see why a return to this is impossible. Tanks have been nerfed to hell, sure, economically keeping up with zerg wasn't a problem then and nothing has changed on the economic front. | ||
Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:05 SCC-Faust wrote: I'm enjoying it thoroughly as well. So many ZvT responses last month along the lines of "No you just have to get creative! Use nydus!"This is ironic. People made fun of Zerg players pre-patch, saying "all you need to do is change your style". You know, the whole 'just figure it out' deal. And now when Terran's early game gets nerfed, the same people who insulted Zerg players for being upset in the first place are the ones crying and not even heeding their original advice. If Zerg figured out how to deal with Terran, then maybe it is time some Terran players learn something other than reaper openings and proxy barracks. Everyone is one-dimensional, playing with siege tank/marine, then saying how imbalanced this shit is when they can't even adjust lol. I'm not saying anything in regards to balance, I just find it so funny. Especially when players like QXC and Brat_OK are prime examples of people who are experimenting and finding success with other builds. Z is op in ZvT? Nope. Terrans just need to get more creative with ravens! | ||
imPERSONater
United States1324 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:04 KawaiiRice wrote: Both parts of your statement contradict your idea. 1) What early zerg attack? 2) You expoing puts you behind since they expoed and have larva mechanic. t t!;; haha, obviously I am outclassed here so I yield to your knowledge, but I must admit I am getting a little schadenfreude out of this new problem so I apologize if the sympathy is lacking ![]() The first point seems to help my idea, if they don't even need to worry about an early zerg attack doesn't that make it easier? I can't comment on the practicality of the second point because you would know better than I. | ||
LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
And it's working alot but its retarded. Highly annoying how T cant even attempt to play a macro game. Once it gets over like 12 minute mark I don't know how T could ever win. | ||
frogmelter
United States971 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:06 Tazza wrote: The supply before rax barely affects the tvp matchup at all. No one used reapers against protoss, and not many people did a bbs against terran. And if you can start out with so many units, you can harass. That's what terran is in sc2, its about harass. No other race can get t3 units as fast as you. You can get thors superfast, and even bcs really fast, but zerg and protoss take very long to get those units. And if you allow protoss to get a lot of temps and colossi, thats your fault. Temps and colossi require a crapload of gas, and therefore you need a lot of expansions. You don't let a toss do that, just like how a toss doesn't allow zergs to macro up like that in the pvz matchup I never liked the reasoning "don't let it get up to that point". With the 1 gate FE pretty much safe and standard, 2 base Protoss can go colossus into templar pretty easily while taking a third. 3 bases, or even 2, is enough for a critical mass of colossus or HT. Not to mention this is getting off topic. Even if T>>>P in TvP [which I don't agree with], it does NOT mean that has to be Z>>>T in ZvT in order to balance it out. | ||
SoLaR[i.C]
United States2969 Posts
Looking at , it doesn't seem unreasonable for there to be 3 Zergs (and definitely 2) in the semifinals. I think the bottom half could end up IdrA and Terious and the top half semifinals having FruitDealer and NEXGenius maybe? The top half is definitely more stacked, and it will be interesting to see how the FruitDealer v SangHo matchup ends up. The CheckPrime, Rainbow, InCa, NEXGenius section of the top half is going to be absolutely NUTS. | ||
cmgillett
United States335 Posts
Loner won against Sen with timing windows in the early game. If Sen had scouted properly, all that was needed was some larva injected speedlings and banelings and/or spine crawlers. Currently, the only slightly viable strategy I have seen thus far to combat zerg's macro ability is to 1 rax expand and consistently trade bio with them. It doesn't feel very solid to me however. I agree that there still needs time to figure things out from the T perspective, but as it stands now, in my opinion, you won't see mechanically sound zerg players like IdrA or FruitDealer losing to a terran for quite some time. Muta, ling, baneling vs. Tank/Marine, mainly roaches against Mech play. Most definitely agree that we will be seeing a Z win this GSL. | ||
TeWy
France714 Posts
Just enlighten the Zerg win ratio at GSL. The ratio of Zerg players there (compared to the 20% of overall Korean Zerg players). It is glaringly obvious that Zerg is now stronger than any other race has ever been. | ||
Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:11 LuckyFool wrote: I allin every TvZ now. And it's working alot but its retarded. Highly annoying how T cant even attempt to play a macro game. Once it gets over like 12 minute mark I don't know how T could ever win. Ditto. Macroing vs a zerg is hilarious. He gave me 3 free bases and when I push out I barely beat his army, get to his base and 10 ultras are waiting. | ||
Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:11 frogmelter wrote: I never liked the reasoning "don't let it get up to that point". With the 1 gate FE pretty much safe and standard, 2 base Protoss can go colossus into templar pretty easily while taking a third. 3 bases, or even 2, is enough for a critical mass of colossus or HT. My point wasn't "don't let it get up to that point" My point was, you don't let a toss to expand freely. If he's stuck on 2 bases for a while, he will not have enough gas to constantly pump out templars and collossi, while getting the upgrades for them. And its not easy for toss to get extra bases. Their army is pretty immobile, and you can take the expos out with a few multipronged attacks. Stimmed marauders kill buildings super fast, and are really great units against protoss gateway units. And to the "don't let it get up to that point" argument, a lot of starcraft is about that. In pvz, thats what its all about, the toss can't let the zerg be on 5-6 fully saturated bases, because they know they'll be overrrun. So toss has to make good timing attacks to stop this. This doesn't stop pvz from being imba, it is one of the most balance mus in the game, and even slightly favors protoss. Even in BW, a lot of tvz was about not letting zerg get that 4th gas, and pushing out with 1 vessel, 3 tanks, and mnm to stop the zerg. | ||
1-LeeteR
United States78 Posts
anyway, im a zerg player, ill be honest, im loving the patch updates, but im gonna pull the fruitdealer card. well all zerg felt underpowered, look who won gsl. who says terran cant learn like fruitdealer did? unless youre suggesting that all terran are mindless zombies, there are great terran players and dont think you its about time for some terran metagame? | ||
frogmelter
United States971 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:18 Tazza wrote: My point wasn't "don't let it get up to that point" My point was, you don't let a toss to expand freely. If he's stuck on 2 bases for a while, he will not have enough gas to constantly pump out templars and collossi, while getting the upgrades for them. And its not easy for toss to get extra bases. Their army is pretty immobile, and you can take the expos out with a few multipronged attacks. Stimmed marauders kill buildings super fast, and are really great units against protoss gateway units. And to the "don't let it get up to that point" argument, a lot of starcraft is about that. In pvz, thats what its all about, the toss can't let the zerg be on 5-6 fully saturated bases, because they know they'll be overrrun. So toss has to make good timing attacks to stop this. This doesn't stop pvz from being imba, it is one of the most balance mus in the game, and even slightly favors protoss. Even in BW, a lot of tvz was about not letting zerg get that 4th gas, and pushing out with 1 vessel, 3 tanks, and mnm to stop the zerg. Which is why TvP is balanced at most. I still don't see how T>>>P in TvP. And it really depends on the positions. I'll agree that TvP on close positions is a fair bit easier, but far positions let the protoss expand a lot more freely. It's not really about 'letting' the protoss expand freely. Obviously Terran should have units at the expansions constantly scouting. Protoss just needs to expand when there's a good enough timing for it [after an army trade or something of that sort]. | ||
Hunch
Canada336 Posts
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L0thar
987 Posts
I don't even watch the games anymore, they are all the same. Terran player futily tries to damage Zerg econ but is inevitably outnumbered and overrun. | ||
FrostedMiniWeet
United States636 Posts
Seriously though, I have yet to see most Terran's do anything other than 1 base, or 2 base play. | ||
frogmelter
United States971 Posts
On October 26 2010 05:27 Hunch wrote: omfg quit qqing and go home and cry, zerg have been brought up to speed and now were seeing that zerg is a viable zace, its starting to get even now, well its more even then last patch but the fact remains that reapers are still very usable and terrans are so use to their noob mmm builds that they now have to figure out good builds, something the zerg are already ahead in due to the imbaness they had to deal with. Reapers are viable? Against range 4 roach? You can't kite roaches anymore and one roach can kill tons of reapers quite handily. You won't catch the zerg offguard because of overlord/creep spread either. Zerg was already a viable race. A zerg won GSL 1. No one contested that zerg was not viable prepatch. Also, manner up plz. | ||
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