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On July 04 2010 12:05 SLTorak.Hobo wrote:
I am pretty confused here by the people defending Xero, I mean do you actually want to waste your time reading a post(several) only to find out he is just leading people on to be a dick? Not that it really matters cause if they want to ban him for being a douche there isn't a thing you can do to stop them and that is what is great about TL.net. No bullshit attitude, you don't waste your time with a bunch of retarded posts, rules are great but common sense rules all. He should have used it long ago when he started posting this garbage.
I can perfectly understand why people would defend "freedom of speech" on forums. Been there, done that.
Those people just don't realize that if someone shits on your carpet you're allowed to kick them out of your house.
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On July 04 2010 11:51 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 11:04 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 10:28 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. There is no absolute ruleset as you imply here, so there was nothing to bend. Common sense supersedes all guidelines that we have laid out. Would you be happy with someone who lied to you for 3 days? Just act here like you're among friends. There are no explicit rules against starting websites to steal credit card numbers either. There are no explicit rules against posting as a hot girl and then releasing all the PMs you get. There are no explicit rules against a lot of things, but clearly you can see how they aren't conducive to a strong community. My logic is very clearly laid out; Don't call it absurd simply because you following another line of subjective reasoning. I understand why you and most of the community would be upset over his actions, but with all due respect, your reasoning is exactly why a perma ban is too harsh. I think you would agree with me if I suggest that common sense from our perspective says that he was a douche bag for what he did and this would mean that he deserves some sort of punishment. However, it was apparent from his actions that his common sense was telling him to defend his story and that he wasn't breaking any explicit rules on the website by doing so. I agree that he should have taken your pm more seriously, but again from his response it appears as if he didn't think the validity of his story was the issue at hand. If he is sorry for his actions and understands why what he did was wrong from our perspective after he was caught, it would stand to reason to give him another chance and a lighter punishment, as no one knew what the consequences of his previous actions would be(since there were no explicit rules against this). this would be more justified then blindly banning someone from only one point of view. Banning people because we believe that they're being douche bags for the sake of being douche bags is both arrogant and abusive. Of course the first rule states that you can ban people however you see fit, but I believe that not allowing them to argue their stance is even less conducive to a strong community than breaking a rule based solely on a moderators judgement. You are actually arguing that we should allow douchebags that we know are douchebags because why? They have a right to post here? Fuck that. This isn't a courthouse. He had a chance to argue the stance when we were talking via PM, and he accepted the consequences I laid out, so your argument falls flat. we don't know if he was a douche bag, as far as i've seen he wasn't given a chance to defend himself at all. the warning you laid said that if the story turns out to be false he would be baned, you gave him no opportunity to defend himself. if he admitted to his actions he would have been baned on the spot. meaning that he was forced to continue being a douche bag if he wanted to save his account with 5k posts. there was no chance of redemption or discussion at all. =\
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out.
Original warning
+ Show Spoiler +Please do not open more blogs furthering this story for a few days. Either update your OP or post the update as a reply in your latest existing blog.
Also, just to be clear, if your story turns out to be false later you will be banned, because this kind of deception is unacceptable in a close community. I hope it is real and I wish you the best. If it's not, please just admit it now and don't drag it out for the people following your story.
Thanks!
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I haven't heard all the back story but this:
Dear mods. please dont ban me for making another blog.. but i feel last night deserves one.
...makes me suspect the ban was legit.
Where's my disneyland blog -_-?
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On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out.
saying Xero's blog and story is an "honest mistake" is like saying the Arusha National park which covers the prominent 4500+ M elevated volcano Meru in northeastern Tanzania isn't split into three distinct areas -- the western river funnels, the southeast crater rim, and the shallow alkaline lake.
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On July 04 2010 12:28 baller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. saying Xero's blog and story is an "honest mistake" is like saying the Arusha National park which covers the prominent 4500+ M elevated volcano Meru in northeastern Tanzania isn't split into three distinct areas -- the western river funnels, the southeast crater rim, and the shallow alkaline lake.
baller u ballin' outta control here
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On July 04 2010 12:28 baller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. saying Xero's blog and story is an "honest mistake" is like saying the Arusha National park which covers the prominent 4500+ M elevated volcano Meru in northeastern Tanzania isn't split into three distinct areas -- the western river funnels, the southeast crater rim, and the shallow alkaline lake.
there's no rule in posting something to gain attention. so someone posted a bullshit story to make himself feel better, and a mod then threatens him that he'll be baned if he's lying. lol great now he's got himself into a situation that previously the consequences were unclear. he didn't know what he was getting himself into, which in my opinion constitutes as an honest mistake.
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On July 04 2010 12:37 Malgrif wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:28 baller wrote:On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. saying Xero's blog and story is an "honest mistake" is like saying the Arusha National park which covers the prominent 4500+ M elevated volcano Meru in northeastern Tanzania isn't split into three distinct areas -- the western river funnels, the southeast crater rim, and the shallow alkaline lake. there's no rule in posting something to gain attention. so someone posted a bullshit story to make himself feel better, and a mod then threatens him that he'll be baned if he's lying. lol great now he's got himself into a situation that previously the consequences were unclear. he didn't know what he was getting himself into, which in my opinion constitutes as an honest mistake.
So you're allowed to pull of any kind of douchebaggery as long as it's not explicitly stated anywhere that you shouldn't do this exact thing? That's ridiculous.
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Malgrif, I highly doubt he would've gotten a permban if he came clean right then and there that he was lying; probably a temp ban, but I have yet to see any undeserving permbans recently. And you keep mentioning about him being backed into corners and honest mistakes and what not, but posting a "bullshit story to make himself feel better" and continuing to lie to a whole community is just extremely selfish and deceitful. At that point, he knew what he was getting himself into and continued on with it.
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On July 04 2010 12:40 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:37 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 12:28 baller wrote:On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. saying Xero's blog and story is an "honest mistake" is like saying the Arusha National park which covers the prominent 4500+ M elevated volcano Meru in northeastern Tanzania isn't split into three distinct areas -- the western river funnels, the southeast crater rim, and the shallow alkaline lake. there's no rule in posting something to gain attention. so someone posted a bullshit story to make himself feel better, and a mod then threatens him that he'll be baned if he's lying. lol great now he's got himself into a situation that previously the consequences were unclear. he didn't know what he was getting himself into, which in my opinion constitutes as an honest mistake. So you're allowed to pull of any kind of douchebaggery as long as it's not explicitly stated anywhere that you shouldn't do this exact thing? That's ridiculous. trying to gain attention through lying about something is being a douche bag? jeez you judge people too harshly, look around you, people do it all the time. for the record i never said he was to go unpunished >_>...
On July 04 2010 12:47 djcube wrote:
Malgrif, I highly doubt he would've gotten a permban if he came clean right then and there that he was lying; probably a temp ban, but I have yet to see any undeserving permbans recently. And you keep mentioning about him being backed into corners and honest mistakes and what not, but posting a "bullshit story to make himself feel better" and continuing to lie to a whole community is just extremely selfish and deceitful. At that point, he knew what he was getting himself into and continued on with it. good speculation, but from the facts, it says otherwise.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 11:51 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 11:04 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 10:28 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. There is no absolute ruleset as you imply here, so there was nothing to bend. Common sense supersedes all guidelines that we have laid out. Would you be happy with someone who lied to you for 3 days? Just act here like you're among friends. There are no explicit rules against starting websites to steal credit card numbers either. There are no explicit rules against posting as a hot girl and then releasing all the PMs you get. There are no explicit rules against a lot of things, but clearly you can see how they aren't conducive to a strong community. My logic is very clearly laid out; Don't call it absurd simply because you following another line of subjective reasoning. I understand why you and most of the community would be upset over his actions, but with all due respect, your reasoning is exactly why a perma ban is too harsh. I think you would agree with me if I suggest that common sense from our perspective says that he was a douche bag for what he did and this would mean that he deserves some sort of punishment. However, it was apparent from his actions that his common sense was telling him to defend his story and that he wasn't breaking any explicit rules on the website by doing so. I agree that he should have taken your pm more seriously, but again from his response it appears as if he didn't think the validity of his story was the issue at hand. If he is sorry for his actions and understands why what he did was wrong from our perspective after he was caught, it would stand to reason to give him another chance and a lighter punishment, as no one knew what the consequences of his previous actions would be(since there were no explicit rules against this). this would be more justified then blindly banning someone from only one point of view. Banning people because we believe that they're being douche bags for the sake of being douche bags is both arrogant and abusive. Of course the first rule states that you can ban people however you see fit, but I believe that not allowing them to argue their stance is even less conducive to a strong community than breaking a rule based solely on a moderators judgement. You are actually arguing that we should allow douchebags that we know are douchebags because why? They have a right to post here? Fuck that. This isn't a courthouse. He had a chance to argue the stance when we were talking via PM, and he accepted the consequences I laid out, so your argument falls flat. we don't know if he was a douche bag, as far as i've seen he wasn't given a chance to defend himself at all. the warning you laid said that if the story turns out to be false he would be baned, you gave him no opportunity to defend himself. if he admitted to his actions he would have been baned on the spot. meaning that he was forced to continue being a douche bag if he wanted to save his account with 5k posts. there was no chance of redemption or discussion at all. =\ sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. Original warning + Show Spoiler +Please do not open more blogs furthering this story for a few days. Either update your OP or post the update as a reply in your latest existing blog.
Also, just to be clear, if your story turns out to be false later you will be banned, because this kind of deception is unacceptable in a close community. I hope it is real and I wish you the best. If it's not, please just admit it now and don't drag it out for the people following your story.
Thanks! I don't think i'm going to sway you to rethink your punishment, but I hope you at least have a proper discussion the next time you warn a person of a potential perma ban. they should at least deserve that.
We're not even talking on the same level anymore so let's agree we disagree on moderation.
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On July 04 2010 12:47 Malgrif wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:40 Djzapz wrote:On July 04 2010 12:37 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 12:28 baller wrote:On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:
sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. saying Xero's blog and story is an "honest mistake" is like saying the Arusha National park which covers the prominent 4500+ M elevated volcano Meru in northeastern Tanzania isn't split into three distinct areas -- the western river funnels, the southeast crater rim, and the shallow alkaline lake. there's no rule in posting something to gain attention. so someone posted a bullshit story to make himself feel better, and a mod then threatens him that he'll be baned if he's lying. lol great now he's got himself into a situation that previously the consequences were unclear. he didn't know what he was getting himself into, which in my opinion constitutes as an honest mistake. So you're allowed to pull of any kind of douchebaggery as long as it's not explicitly stated anywhere that you shouldn't do this exact thing? That's ridiculous. trying to gain attention through lying about something is being a douche bag? jeez you judge people too harshly, look around you, people do it all the time. for the record i never said he was to go unpunished >_>...
If that isn't being a douchebag, then what is? To me that is textbook douchebaggery.
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On July 04 2010 12:47 Malgrif wrote:
trying to gain attention through lying about something is being a douche bag? jeez you judge people too harshly, look around you, people do it all the time.
depends on who you choose to surround yourself with.. bold faced liars??
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Why is this still open -.-, spent like 10-20 minutes trying to figure out what happened and in short some guy lied (he didn't even get poonany) about a story [him and some chic etc..] for 3 days. Got banned, and that was that.
What would I do without the CTRL+F and "View All Posts" feature 
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On July 04 2010 12:49 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:19 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 11:51 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 11:04 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 10:28 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. There is no absolute ruleset as you imply here, so there was nothing to bend. Common sense supersedes all guidelines that we have laid out. Would you be happy with someone who lied to you for 3 days? Just act here like you're among friends. There are no explicit rules against starting websites to steal credit card numbers either. There are no explicit rules against posting as a hot girl and then releasing all the PMs you get. There are no explicit rules against a lot of things, but clearly you can see how they aren't conducive to a strong community. My logic is very clearly laid out; Don't call it absurd simply because you following another line of subjective reasoning. I understand why you and most of the community would be upset over his actions, but with all due respect, your reasoning is exactly why a perma ban is too harsh. I think you would agree with me if I suggest that common sense from our perspective says that he was a douche bag for what he did and this would mean that he deserves some sort of punishment. However, it was apparent from his actions that his common sense was telling him to defend his story and that he wasn't breaking any explicit rules on the website by doing so. I agree that he should have taken your pm more seriously, but again from his response it appears as if he didn't think the validity of his story was the issue at hand. If he is sorry for his actions and understands why what he did was wrong from our perspective after he was caught, it would stand to reason to give him another chance and a lighter punishment, as no one knew what the consequences of his previous actions would be(since there were no explicit rules against this). this would be more justified then blindly banning someone from only one point of view. Banning people because we believe that they're being douche bags for the sake of being douche bags is both arrogant and abusive. Of course the first rule states that you can ban people however you see fit, but I believe that not allowing them to argue their stance is even less conducive to a strong community than breaking a rule based solely on a moderators judgement. You are actually arguing that we should allow douchebags that we know are douchebags because why? They have a right to post here? Fuck that. This isn't a courthouse. He had a chance to argue the stance when we were talking via PM, and he accepted the consequences I laid out, so your argument falls flat. we don't know if he was a douche bag, as far as i've seen he wasn't given a chance to defend himself at all. the warning you laid said that if the story turns out to be false he would be baned, you gave him no opportunity to defend himself. if he admitted to his actions he would have been baned on the spot. meaning that he was forced to continue being a douche bag if he wanted to save his account with 5k posts. there was no chance of redemption or discussion at all. =\ sure, you can argue he doesn't have a right to post since it's a private forum, but how do you justify to yourself that it's alright to be so ruthless to people who make honest mistakes.(my point of no explicit rule, meaning no known punishment)The more i read your warning the more it seems that he was forced into a corner with no way out. Original warning + Show Spoiler +Please do not open more blogs furthering this story for a few days. Either update your OP or post the update as a reply in your latest existing blog.
Also, just to be clear, if your story turns out to be false later you will be banned, because this kind of deception is unacceptable in a close community. I hope it is real and I wish you the best. If it's not, please just admit it now and don't drag it out for the people following your story.
Thanks! I don't think i'm going to sway you to rethink your punishment, but I hope you at least have a proper discussion the next time you warn a person of a potential perma ban. they should at least deserve that. We're not even talking on the same level anymore so let's agree we disagree on moderation. it doesn't appear as I have any other choice, so lets end it for now. =)
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Osaka27174 Posts
On July 04 2010 11:04 Malgrif wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 10:28 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. There is no absolute ruleset as you imply here, so there was nothing to bend. Common sense supersedes all guidelines that we have laid out. Would you be happy with someone who lied to you for 3 days? Just act here like you're among friends. There are no explicit rules against starting websites to steal credit card numbers either. There are no explicit rules against posting as a hot girl and then releasing all the PMs you get. There are no explicit rules against a lot of things, but clearly you can see how they aren't conducive to a strong community. My logic is very clearly laid out; Don't call it absurd simply because you following another line of subjective reasoning. I understand why you and most of the community would be upset over his actions, but with all due respect, your reasoning is exactly why a perma ban is too harsh. I think you would agree with me if I suggest that common sense from our perspective says that he was a douche bag for what he did and this would mean that he deserves some sort of punishment. However, it was apparent from his actions that his common sense was telling him to defend his story and that he wasn't breaking any explicit rules on the website by doing so. I agree that he should have taken your pm more seriously, but again from his response it appears as if he didn't think the validity of his story was the issue at hand. If he is sorry for his actions and understands why what he did was wrong from our perspective after he was caught, it would stand to reason to give him another chance and a lighter punishment, as no one knew what the consequences of his previous actions would be(since there were no explicit rules against this). this would be more justified then blindly banning someone from only one point of view. Banning people because we believe that they're being douche bags for the sake of being douche bags is both arrogant and abusive. Of course the first rule states that you can ban people however you see fit, but I believe that not allowing them to argue their stance is even less conducive to a strong community than breaking a rule based solely on a moderators judgement.
On the off chance that you aren't just arguing for the sake of arguing, there is a long convention on teamliquid for banning people that tell made up bullshit stories. So while it may not be explicitly stated in the rules in the manner that you would like, it is a social norm that has been reinforced for years.
Because you are (maybe) new to TL means that you are not aware of these social norms. It also means that maybe it isn't your place to argue this ban until you learn how TL society works.
And banning people for being a douchebag is not arrogant. Don't be a douchebag.
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On July 04 2010 10:40 baller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. i will make an analogy that may help u understand better lets say theres a real life party. if ur like wuh?? a party is where people assemble to drink and talk with each other. ok so ur going to a party, and it is hosted by steve liquid and his friends. steve liquid has a lot of friends. lets say one of the kids going is named Xero. the party runs out of beer, and Xero says hes goin out to get some beer. but he doesn't actually get any beer. he lied. he lied to the party. so steve liquid says, get out, we dont want liars at our party. then someone named malcom grif says, totally unfair, theres no rule at the party saying u cant lie about mass deception. now, imagine urself as malcom grif, and "Xero" as dream)xero, and "steve liquid's party" as team liquid forums. do u see now? "oh shit baller that makes so much sense" u say? ur welcome.
this is really dumb, sorry, but i care whether there's beer at a party a bit more than whether someone i don't know is telling the truth about a story. i'd imagine most people feel the same.
think of it this way, people who went to the party expected there to be beer, people on the internet don't log on and think "oh boy everything i read is going to be true!"
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On July 04 2010 12:54 mainerd wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 12:47 Malgrif wrote:
trying to gain attention through lying about something is being a douche bag? jeez you judge people too harshly, look around you, people do it all the time.
depends on who you choose to surround yourself with.. bold faced liars?? knowing who to trust when and knowing when allowing people to get away with stuff is better then challenging everyone. know when to fight and know when to let things go. (this really has nothing to do with the matter at hand) that's just my philosophy about how to handle people and i'm sure most of you will say that you don't surround yourself with liars, and that in itself, not to be cliche, is a lie.
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"From the facts we know otherwise?" Yeah, that's because he CONTINUED on with his crap-story that Chill banned him on the spot. A mod told him to quit bullshitting and he didn't. End of story.
But man you sure are naive. People must lie to you straight through their teeth and you don't bat an eye. I really need to stop posting now b/c I've actually gotten irate by arguing with a brick wall.
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Osaka27174 Posts
On July 04 2010 13:00 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 10:40 baller wrote:On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. i will make an analogy that may help u understand better lets say theres a real life party. if ur like wuh?? a party is where people assemble to drink and talk with each other. ok so ur going to a party, and it is hosted by steve liquid and his friends. steve liquid has a lot of friends. lets say one of the kids going is named Xero. the party runs out of beer, and Xero says hes goin out to get some beer. but he doesn't actually get any beer. he lied. he lied to the party. so steve liquid says, get out, we dont want liars at our party. then someone named malcom grif says, totally unfair, theres no rule at the party saying u cant lie about mass deception. now, imagine urself as malcom grif, and "Xero" as dream)xero, and "steve liquid's party" as team liquid forums. do u see now? "oh shit baller that makes so much sense" u say? ur welcome. this is really dumb, sorry, but i care whether there's beer at a party a bit more than whether someone i don't know is telling the truth about a story. i'd imagine most people feel the same. think of it this way, people who went to the party expected there to be beer, people on the internet don't log on and think "oh boy everything i read is going to be true!"
Really? Beer is more important than honesty?
edit--- you may be correct.
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On July 04 2010 12:58 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2010 11:04 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 10:28 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 09:59 Malgrif wrote:On July 04 2010 09:34 Chill wrote:On July 04 2010 08:42 Malgrif wrote:
so he got baned for fooling everyone? this hardly seems justified. While I appreciate your well-thought out criticism which ignores the many explanations that have given and is based purely on assumption, I am going to have to maintain with my current course of action. Should this inconvenience you, please contact Kennigit via PM. he was baned because he carried on with his story and you didn't like that he was telling a fib. you used the excuse that "this" was the final straw and that he had a history of temp bans and bad posts, and his 4k post count was a bunch of junk to make a justification of why he was baned. however, no where in the rules of the site have i ever read that you can be banned for telling a lie or causing mass deception, you bent the rules as you saw fit and made an excuse for doing it. sure people agree with you, they view it as "catching the bad guy!, the justice hammer wins again!" but honestly there was no justice here, he broke no rule. maybe a temporary ban or a chance at a public apology for not listening to a moderator, but a perma ban for sharing a made up story is absurd. There is no absolute ruleset as you imply here, so there was nothing to bend. Common sense supersedes all guidelines that we have laid out. Would you be happy with someone who lied to you for 3 days? Just act here like you're among friends. There are no explicit rules against starting websites to steal credit card numbers either. There are no explicit rules against posting as a hot girl and then releasing all the PMs you get. There are no explicit rules against a lot of things, but clearly you can see how they aren't conducive to a strong community. My logic is very clearly laid out; Don't call it absurd simply because you following another line of subjective reasoning. I understand why you and most of the community would be upset over his actions, but with all due respect, your reasoning is exactly why a perma ban is too harsh. I think you would agree with me if I suggest that common sense from our perspective says that he was a douche bag for what he did and this would mean that he deserves some sort of punishment. However, it was apparent from his actions that his common sense was telling him to defend his story and that he wasn't breaking any explicit rules on the website by doing so. I agree that he should have taken your pm more seriously, but again from his response it appears as if he didn't think the validity of his story was the issue at hand. If he is sorry for his actions and understands why what he did was wrong from our perspective after he was caught, it would stand to reason to give him another chance and a lighter punishment, as no one knew what the consequences of his previous actions would be(since there were no explicit rules against this). this would be more justified then blindly banning someone from only one point of view. Banning people because we believe that they're being douche bags for the sake of being douche bags is both arrogant and abusive. Of course the first rule states that you can ban people however you see fit, but I believe that not allowing them to argue their stance is even less conducive to a strong community than breaking a rule based solely on a moderators judgement. On the off chance that you aren't just arguing for the sake of arguing, there is a long convention on teamliquid for banning people that tell made up bullshit stories. So while it may not be explicitly stated in the rules in the manner that you would like, it is a social norm that has been reinforced for years. Because you are (maybe) new to TL means that you are not aware of these social norms. It also means that maybe it isn't your place to argue this ban until you learn how TL society works. And banning people for being a douchebag is not arrogant. Don't be a douchebag. I'll patiently observe it's consistency. and I agree if they themselves believe they are douche bags then the ban is warranted, but if not then it should be debatable.
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