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Also read Fight Club it's really great, watch the movie second hand lions for a more easy going, chilled out but still awesome.
I find that we tend to inflate the importance of bullshit in our lives to the point of spiritual and mental depravity. People always look outside for things they want when they need to realize what is inside of them first.
Lately I've been losing inhibitions regarding social expectation and politeness, the need for acceptance etc. I really believe Tyler Durden's line "I am free in all of the ways you are not", I haven't reached that level of freedom though.I haven't reached any level of not giving a fuck thats dangerous.
I think people are raised to fear failure too much in the modern western world, to succeed you must fail, with women and friends and everything.
i don't mean to be condescending I consider myself a noob in life, I need to follow these principles too.
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I'm about 2 pages into 11 into it, so I'll have to edit further thoughts into it as I get the chance.
Having unrealistic expectations of a girl is going to lead to a lot of trouble, so I applaud the female friend approach. Because you want and need so much out of a girlfriend, this makes the obsession worse, as you noted. You should be able to live a healthy, functional life and have your social/support needs fulfilled with your current friends and family, without a girlfriend. Otherwise, you're not seeing the girl for who she is, but for what she can do for you. This will make it harder to meet girls that you don't know well and put too much pressure on girls you do know.
Successful relationships aren't created two incomplete people, they are by two complete people who find even greater satisfaction with each other. Of course making yourself happy is easier said than done.
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Regarding Fight Club - Theres a reason Tyler gets shot and dies in the end. . . And there is a reason why Jack holds Marla's hand while the buildings crumble. Don't forget about that part. . . It's important. But it's perhaps not as appealing as being reckless like Tyler.
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Wow, I actually finished the whole thing. I must say it fits the strategy section rules where you have to attach a replay, and this was the replay I guess.
My feeling is that you subconsciously attach yourself to girls who have a steady partner already, so you can tell yourself "it didn't work out because she had a guy already." Kind of an excuse in advance, although you may not think of it that way. Towards the beginning of your story you said you had some sexual feelings, so if you really wanted to consummate these feelings, why not attach yourself to the usual slutty party girl group most institutions of learning have?
The main thing is to sit down and figure out exactly what is it that you want in this stage of life with the opposite sex, and from there you will be able to formulate the next step of action.
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This is a very bad case of oneitus. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket.
edit: No pun intended.
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http://roissy.wordpress.com/
Dude is a giant egotist / douche, but what he says is true and it works. You need to stop thinking is this girl going to like me and start being more confident. Have the mindset, does this girl deserve me instead.
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On March 17 2010 18:54 Emon_ wrote:
Regarding Fight Club - Theres a reason Tyler gets shot and dies in the end. . . And there is a reason why Jack holds Marla's hand while the buildings crumble. Don't forget about that part. . . It's important. But it's perhaps not as appealing as being reckless like Tyler.
When you free yourself is when you'll get the girl. Tyler was both characters, but the Brad Pit Tyler wasn't all of Tyler--just the parts Tyler envisioned himself. When he was killed Tyler combined all the parts of himself. The important part wasn't that they were holding hands, its that he took her hand and she wanted to be a part of his life. He looked at her and went "Marla, for the first time in my life I'm really ok" and she was quiet and willing to see what happened next. At first she while she was being brought up she was pissed at him and wanted to leave, but he brought her into his world.
On March 18 2010 03:33 bdams19 wrote:http://roissy.wordpress.com/Dude is a giant egotist / douche, but what he says is true and it works. You need to stop thinking is this girl going to like me and start being more confident. Have the mindset, does this girl deserve me instead.
You gotta be egotist and I wouldn't say he's a douche. I'd also say he's not successful at what he does. He's right about some things (probably by mistake) and wrong about more things.
DON’T give blowjobs before you have had sex with him. An early, pre-sex blowjob says one thing to a man — slut. And sluts don’t impress men as marriage prospects.
The hell is he talking about? Judging women before he's even met them and DENYING BLOWJOBS? Calling women who do things men like sluts? What the hell will this accomplish besides make them not do those things? You can totally marry a gal who got down on you 2 hours after meeting you.
I read more of his articles. What he says might work, but the way he thinks is just coming from the wrong place. Don't read that shit and take it for the truth. It's bullshit.
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Thanks for the pointers about making a blog. Now that I figured it out, I have created a blog, but I guess I cannot transfer this topic to the blog myself.
It's been nice to see some feedback on the topic. I guess it good that I don't feel I'm talking to myself. I did not want to contaminate (I want people to form their opinions without too many of my predispositions and maybe give a different perspective) or dissuade the replies to the blog, but since interest seems to possibly be dying out a bit, I might as well clear up a few misconceptions.
First off, let me say that I mainly anticipated the following two kinds of replies:
(1) Hang out with more guyfriends - Why spend so much time worrying about girls? Just enjoy time with your guyfriends and stop thinking so much about those girls, which only really amounts to frustration and headache. Girls are for relationships, guys are for friends.
(2) Get laid - This reeks of a guy who's simply desperate to get laid. Once you get laid, you will feel better about it, and not worry so much about these small things. You just need to relax man, and by the way, here is a link for how to date women.
Let me reiterate, though. I'm not really looking to date women, nor am I looking to somehow manipulate girls to like me (I always treat people with respect). With "the Danish girl", for instance, the reason that I was able to tell her about the feel incident was that it seemed to innocent from my current perspective as it was basically a non-factor. If I was only really looking to charm and woe girls, I guess it would be a good deal easier, but I'm not really the type for that, and it's not the way I relate to women. I'm simply looking for meaningful friendships since I'm curious about girls and getting to know them is what seems important in my life at the moment. And if I happen to get to know a girl who is single, sex might be part of the deal eventually, but it's not something I concern myself with (despite whatever my instincts might tell me), and I'm not looking to do it before knowing the girl really well, where the sex might become the result of a natural intimacy. I don't mean to trivialize this topic by going into a deeper discussion about how I feel about sex, so I'll just leave it at that.
Also, as mentioned, I'm quite confident in many ways. One thing that I always attribute to being bullied in my childhood is that I'm never afraid to be myself. Eventually, after freeing myself from the imminent need for recognition and acceptance, I have been able to largely disregard what expectations people might have for me. While this probably has only made it harder for me socially, it means that I'm unaffected by these expectations and don't have to be fearful about the judgement of others. I'm easily able to perform in pressure situations like talking in front of a big crowd, and I'm not afraid to stand out or come off awkward. I'm able to be brutally honest about my feelings and about myself. I am able to remove some inhibitions that enables me to do things in social situations that most wouldn't. However, the thing is, that I can sometimes feel uncomfortable in crowds, have difficulties relating to people in such setting. And whenever I attach myself from a girl, I can have periods where I'm vulnerable and where I desperately need her acceptance. And when it comes to conversations, normally my first conversation with anyone is great, but later I often overthink things, greatly dependent on the context.
Come to think of it, I remember that when I finished writing my project last semester, I didn't really feel any great need to see the Russian girl. I felt it had been really easy to get to know her, but found other things more interesting. I had enough in the Italian girl and all the people around the university. While I still really enjoyed my time with her, I remember thinking at one point that I wanted to keep in contact to make sure that we could speak Danish together, since I thought that she would be a wonderful contribution to our society and I wanted to help her with her long-term goals. What changed? Suddenly, for the last two weeks, I have been feeling a bit strange about it, I guess. Maybe I just got into a bad pattern after the first rejection. Or maybe it's the fact that by the end of next week, all classes for this semester has ended. Next semester I have an internship abroad and the final semester people will have gone different places to make their master thesis. So, basically, I might not get the chance to see these people again.
On March 17 2010 17:54 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
For the next week, starting from this moment, your level will not go down for longer than a minute. If it gets deflated, you have a minute to rethink shit. One time this guy went "You're really fucking weird" in front of a bunch of other guys and it killed me. My level went way down. If this happens to you, you're not going to: get pissed back at him (thats petty), try to defend yourself (gives him power over you), or not say anything back (verbal or otherwise). You are going to give him a weird look and then say "anyway" and talk about something else or go "women like the weird guys." Whats important is that you will be completely unaffected by his judgement. You will not give a damn.
Yes, I have watched Fight Club, and while it was artistic and special, I admittedly found it a slight bit boring at times. Your post does not seem that serious, but I thought I would address this quote as an example of what I have mentioned above. The situation you depicted wouldn't affect me the least. The way I see it, it's the guy who says that who has a problem (depending on whether he's trying to get to you or just simply stating it). I would either ignore it, I would say "true" or something like that if I felt the guy would feel bad about me ignoring him or if I wanted to connect with the girl and be friendly, maybe joke about it. I could get affected by the sheer negativity about it, but not because it would make me unsure of myself.
On March 17 2010 20:18 noobilly wrote:
My feeling is that you subconsciously attach yourself to girls who have a steady partner already, so you can tell yourself "it didn't work out because she had a guy already." Kind of an excuse in advance, although you may not think of it that way. Towards the beginning of your story you said you had some sexual feelings, so if you really wanted to consummate these feelings, why not attach yourself to the usual slutty party girl group most institutions of learning have?
Might be. I mean, it would make sense that I cannot relate properly to women because instinctively, I want sex, which I am denying myself the chance to pursue. However, I must say that I was interested in most of these women before I had any idea that they were in a relationship, which shoots down the idea a bit.
I must note that I'm feeling much better today than I did yesterday, and have had a smile on my face most of the day, feeling very calm and confident. So, it probably has been therapeutic to write this, and maybe by retelling the story I have managed to attach different value to it. Feelings can be so volatile at times, even though for the majority of time I'm a quite happy and very positive guy. I do have spells where I feel terribly lonely, which can make me a bit desperate. I'll see tomorrow, though, when I see the Russian girl. I have decided not to address my insecurities with her unless it comes up naturally, and stay away from her unless she has a positive body language, giving her time to get over her sour feelings.
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On March 18 2010 05:20 Asjo wrote:
Let me reiterate, though. I'm not really looking to date women, nor am I looking to somehow manipulate girls to like me (I always treat people with respect). With "the Danish girl", for instance, the reason that I was able to tell her about the feel incident was that it seemed to innocent from my current perspective as it was basically a non-factor. If I was only really looking to charm and woe girls, I guess it would be a good deal easier, but I'm not really the type for that, and it's not the way I relate to women. I'm simply looking for meaningful friendships since I'm curious about girls and getting to know them is what seems important in my life at the moment. And if I happen to get to know a girl who is single, sex might be part of the deal eventually, but it's not something I concern myself with (despite whatever my instincts might tell me), and I'm not looking to do it before knowing the girl really well, where the sex might become the result of a natural intimacy. I don't mean to trivialize this topic by going into a deeper discussion about how I feel about sex, so I'll just leave it at that.
How you feel about sex is at the core of this. People are sexual beings. Don't beat around the bush and not be truthful with yourself: your ultimate goal is to find a girl you enjoy being around and consummate that relationship. You can do a girl right away and still have a successful relationship with her. You don't think you're that kind of guy because you don't believe you can be that kind of guy. The first step is a shift in thinking.
Yes, I have watched Fight Club, and while it was artistic and special, I admittedly found it a slight bit boring at times. Your post does not seem that serious
I am completely serious. That post was entirely stream of consciousness with proper grammar and punctuation. The first two lines are what I'm trying to do and what will help you out too. Break down any conceptions of yourself that you have about everything, break it all down and change it. You want to be good with women so eventually when you meet that girl, you have enough practice to keep her. Improve yourself by pleasing yourself. Break yourself down and recreate you the way you envision you. My post was how that movie actually started my personal process so I thought it might help you too
I mean, it would make sense that I cannot relate properly to women because instinctively, I want sex, which I am denying myself the chance to pursue. However, I must say that I was interested in most of these women before I had any idea that they were in a relationship, which shoots down the idea a bit.
Now we're getting somewhere
I must note that I'm feeling much better today than I did yesterday, and have had a smile on my face most of the day, feeling very calm and confident. So, it probably has been therapeutic to write this, and maybe by retelling the story I have managed to attach different value to it. Feelings can be so volatile at times, even though for the majority of time I'm a quite happy and very positive guy. I do have spells where I feel terribly lonely, which can make me a bit desperate. I'll see tomorrow, though, when I see the Russian girl.
Depends on how much sleep you get and what you let yourself think about
I have decided not to address my insecurities with her unless it comes up naturally, and stay away from her unless she has a positive body language, giving her time to get over her sour feelings.
Go say hi, make a joke to make things comfortable, then distance yourself. Let her come to you.
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Whew.. Dude, I don't know if you're gonna read this far into the comments, but I just finnished reading the whole thing and all I can say is this: I didn't know I had a dobbleganger.
Held og lykke med kvinderne, ellers  Det var virkelig noget af en oplevelse at få sådan en indsigt i en anden persons liv.. Tak.
Edit: With greetings from Jylland!
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KurtistheTurtle, I'm sorry to have misunderstood then, if your post was fully serious. As explained, for me it's not really about being myself or being confident (in general) - I have those things down already.
No, my distance to sex is for principal reason. I'm quite certain of that. Which is why the discussion would really be at length if pursued.
I did have something funny in mind to talk about and I was also thinking that some positive impression was needed to shift her thoughts. However, as I said, it depends on her demeanor; if she's not ready, I doubt I'll be able to force anything, and even a joke will be awkward.
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you).
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Whew, I read it all, but I don't have much advice to give, I think its really good that you talk to people about your problems, but you have to be cautious not be friend zoned by sharing too much, in the end you lack confidence, which you can gain, but often you will feel like a prat.
Good effort in your posting however.
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On March 18 2010 07:05 HnR)hT wrote:
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you).
It seems I have sort of made sex the issue myself with my comments. All depends on how you tell the story
Your point hinges on sexual attraction, and I have to point out that I certainly haven't had sexual thoughts about all of these women, and whatever I have had has been very limited, not playing a role in the relationship. The Italian girl asking curiously if I was gay would be a good testament to that. The one girl that I have described sexual attraction towards, was perhaps the one I was eventually the least emotionally invested in, and even then it was only before getting to know her.
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@Kurtis - Sure, Jack freed himself of Tyler. This proves that Tyler was a destructive and bad part of him. He shows this by opposing Project Mayhem, showing sympathy for Bob's corpse and ultimately, killing the Tyler part of himself. He didn't "bring" anyone "into his world" - he freed himself of Tyler and resumed being a human.
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On March 18 2010 07:19 Asjo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 07:05 HnR)hT wrote:
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you). It seems I have sort of made sex the issue myself with my comments. All depends on how you tell the story Your point hinges on sexual attraction, and I have to point out that I certainly haven't had sexual thoughts about all of these women, and whatever I have had has been very limited, not playing a role in the relationship. The Italian girl asking curiously if I was gay would be a good testament to that. The one girl that I have described sexual attraction towards, was perhaps the one I was eventually the least emotionally invested in, and even then it was only before getting to know her.
Well, I doubt you have similar feelings toward any of your male acquaintances - or am I wrong?
By "sexual attraction" I don't mean to suggest that you're actually fantasizing about having sex with the woman in question. It's not uncommon that, when we place a woman on a pedestal we don't dare to imagine her in sexual situations (call it the Saint Mary effect). But you should never be thinking of women in this way in the first place.
It still seems to be the case that the feeling you have for these women is basically a sexual one. If so, then you have to acknowledge it or you will certainly not get anywhere.
Of course, I could be completely wrong and you happen to have a weird emotional need for women, and only women, which is COMPLETELY unrelated to sexuality 
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On March 18 2010 07:47 HnR)hT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 07:19 Asjo wrote:On March 18 2010 07:05 HnR)hT wrote:
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you). It seems I have sort of made sex the issue myself with my comments. All depends on how you tell the story Your point hinges on sexual attraction, and I have to point out that I certainly haven't had sexual thoughts about all of these women, and whatever I have had has been very limited, not playing a role in the relationship. The Italian girl asking curiously if I was gay would be a good testament to that. The one girl that I have described sexual attraction towards, was perhaps the one I was eventually the least emotionally invested in, and even then it was only before getting to know her. Well, I doubt you have similar feelings toward any of your male acquaintances - or am I wrong? By "sexual attraction" I don't mean to suggest that you're actually fantasizing about having sex with the woman in question. It's not uncommon that, when we place a woman on a pedestal we don't dare to imagine her in sexual situations (call it the Saint Mary effect). But you should never be thinking of women in this way in the first place. It still seems to be the case that the feeling you have for these women is basically a sexual one. If so, then you have to acknowledge it or you will certainly not get anywhere. Of course, I could be completely wrong and you happen to have a weird emotional need for women, and only women, which is COMPLETELY unrelated to sexuality
I think I have been confusing what your comment was directed at. I thought it was directed at the women in my narratives, not the ones I obsessed with earlier (to greater and lesser degrees). Except my "first true love", I think you might have a point. However, those incidents are quite different from my current situation, where I am not really obsessing about anyone, and just have a need for close friendships with women, and maybe motherly affection and support on top of that. Yes, you might call it a "weird emotional need".
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On March 18 2010 06:08 Lovin wrote:Whew.. Dude, I don't know if you're gonna read this far into the comments, but I just finnished reading the whole thing and all I can say is this: I didn't know I had a dobbleganger. Held og lykke med kvinderne, ellers Det var virkelig noget af en oplevelse at få sådan en indsigt i en anden persons liv.. Tak. Edit: With greetings from Jylland!
I must admit that this was the comment I enjoyed the most. What this guy is saying, in Danish, is that it was quite an experience to gain such insight into the life of another person, saying thanks. When I was trying to think of the justification of my original post, I was considering who would bother to read through it. I realized that I would greatly appreciate something like this myself, and that therefore people like me would be interested in reading it.
I saw the Italian girl yesterday, and she was acting fairly natural around me when we walked and took the bus to the university. And it turned out that she had probably sent her response to me Saturday to the wrong number, since she had to send back the text from her boyfriend's phone, not having any credit on her own. Later that day, when I happened to speak to her online, it became clear that she wanted to somehow address the incident where she and the Russian left class. She was quite careful and very indirect at first, but I provoked her to speak more directly about it. Either way, we quickly moved past it, and it didn't seem to have much of an impact.
Today I had classes with the Russian girl. It was interesting, because today I relied much more in my own thoughts and was "within myself", possibly inspired by some of the comments of the Italian girl the previous evening (not consciously, though). I didn't have any agenda apart from just being there and taking part in class. I felt very comfortable and calm and enjoyed everything the way I usually do. I think that maybe for the last 3-4 weeks I have been outside myself, constantly relating to others instead of just doing things as they come naturally to me. This might have been driven driven by some kind of sense of loneliness, which I have mentioned earlier. Due to my new thinking, I didn't concern myself that much with the Russian. During class, I noticed that she was looking in my direction a few times. I imagined she wanted to catch my glance to know where I stood, since it's never easy to leave things off with an online conversation. I think on some level I wanted to look back to somehow settle things, but I didn't really feel a natural inclination to do so. Maybe I wanted to disregard her to have her do the reconciliation, which would explain my reaction a bit later. I was sitting thinking carefully about something and therefore not consciously looking anywhere. Once I looked out, I was looking straight into the eyes of the Russian girl. Very instinctively, in less than an instant, I looked away. I'm not actually sure whether it was just part of a movement I was already making or if it was an instinctly reaction, but I imagine that perhaps she interpretend it as the latter. After the last class, I just went to the bus, not waiting for anyone. She had gone to the bus as well. I just sat down and waited in a different spot. She got on the bus right before me and we aknowledged each other with a greeting as we got on. We both walked near the end of the bus where a few seats were vacant. At that point, I was thinking that I wanted to challenge her by asking casually if I could sit with her. When we got to the end of the bus, only one row of seats (paired together in twos) was fully vacant. I think for pretty much anyone, it would be natural to sit there, where you would have more space, instead of sitting down where someone was already sitting. If she did, I would be able to sit next to her. She didn't, and she sat next to a girl she didn't know. I remember a surge went through me. I sat down in the vacant row of seats behind her. When she exited, one stop before mine, I nodded goodbye to her with an accomodating smile, showing that even if I didn't connect with her in class I wasn't sour or angry. And she seemed to do the same back, possibly a little more fleeting.
And I still feel fine. So, maybe I've learned a lesson. And as the Italian girl has told me several times since we got to know each other; don't think!
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