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(Wanted to post this in blogs, but I am unable to. Due to lack of numbers in posts, I assume? Can't be time spent on the forums or lack of quality  ... anyway, if someone could move it, I would much appreciate it)
Blog entry philosophy
The following will be a long personal rambling about relating to other people, including a few detailed accounts. I don’t suppose it’s very easy to read. Really, if anyone manages, I salute you. I never imagined posting something like this in a blog. Not because I mind sharing my most intimate thoughts with anyone, but because I would normally talk to the people who my thoughts concern directly. I’m sensing that the people I normally talk to are getting sick of my confessional speeches, which is the part of the problem I will detail below, so instead I will share it here with you guys on Teamliquid as it seems therapeutic to get it all out. I realise that, albeit unlikely, it might happen that someone involved in the story might tell might stumble upon the story that I’m about to share, but at least they will have read it voluntarily, without me bothering them with it.
Before the story
First, a bit of background information about me. I’m 25 years old and I am undertaking a master’s degree in communication at a Danish university. I have few, but close friends, which is partly due to preference (close friendships seem much more rewarding), partly due to me being bad at staying in contact with people and partly due to me not having natural ways of relating to people on a regular basis (most friends I have had, have been people I played computer with, something that’s always easy to do together). In early primary school I was bullied, I think mainly for being different and having very non-conformist attitude. And basically, I guess, it boils down to me perhaps being a bit overprotected as a child and therefore not being able to hold my own socially. This has meant that I have often been a bit uncomfortable socially and have had a hard time relating to people in groups, always needing to speak with people on one man hand. This day, I am very confident in many ways, but I definitely still have a few dents in my armour when it comes to social interaction.
At the same time, I have difficulties relating to girls. In primary school, I had an instance of blind, unfounded, unconditional love for a girl. She was pretty, but I didn’t find her sexually attractive in any way, I just thought of her as a perfect soul companion for me in every way, despite hardly knowing her. It happened quickly after she tongue-kissed me at a party (as a young 15-16 year old girl, experimenting, I would think), perhaps the first kiss I ever received. So, from nothing, all of a sudden love made up my entire horizon. Since my love was illogical, even detached, obviously I was never really able to explain my feelings to this girl, so I ended up with everything pent inside. When one day I blurted out these feelings to another girl, using a random occasion, the girls in class all grouped together against me, acting very viciously. The object of my love, or obsession, was obviously having trouble responding to my indirect approach, and didn’t really have the maturity to deal with my feelings. The rest of my time in primary school (basically, two more years, I think) was spent feeling out of place, wanting to somehow connect with this girl. I started acting strange. For instance, I remember at some point I would make the gesture of dropping dead to the floor whenever I saw this girl, trying to express non-verbally what I could not otherwise. When primary school was over, I felt a great loss not to see the girl again, and I remember crying myself to sleep the night of the final party for our class. Next thing was continuation school (Danish concept, I think, where students all live on school grounds and have classes there for a year, instead of taking tenth grade in primary school or progressing directory to higher secondary school – it mainly focuses on the social aspect, where you have a lot of things to do, with teachings being very light). I guess I needed something to fill the hole left by my prior love interest, because I fell head over heels with another girl. This ended me up in a similar situation to the previous, only I hardly ever had any chance to interact with this girl since there were 80 students living there and I would have to go to her room to see her. I basically spent most of my time frustrated or torn.
When I got to higher secondary school, I did not fall in love again, but I still had this unhealthy focus of wanting to connect with a specific girl. I suspect that by now my focus had shifted a bit from love to sex. Whereas I had no intentions of “just” having sex (a principal stand-point, amazingly), my instincts were obviously wide awake. I remember when taking my bachelor degree that I spent most of my time focusing on one girl that I was neither particularly sexually attracted to or in love with, but who I guess I still obsessed too much about. I had a great time with her, though, but interestingly, once she finished studies a year early, I turned my full focus to another girl, and spent most of my efforts trying to get to her. The same happened when I finished my bachelor degree and got a job, where there was also a girl that I got along with really well that I just focused on way too much. All this leads to a path of a very unhealthy relationship towards women. For the last 4-5 years I have been focusing pretty much all my social efforts on getting close to women and trying to understand women. I guess subconsciously, it’s an effort to deal with this unhealthy relationship I have had towards them. I am instantly attracted to women that display some kind of maternal instinct, who seem to be able to take care of me (in terms of helping me take responsibility in my choices) and show me motherly affection. Also, I hopelessly overthink my relationships with girls, thinking of the meanings of little signs, thinking ahead about what to say, etc. Despite the fact that all the girls I have gotten to know have been either good looking or beautiful (something which naturally attracts me, I suppose), I have never really had any conscious interest in sex, and I don’t even believe in conventional relationships – I just wanted female friend. Common for all the girls mentioned (except “the Danish girl” mentioned later) is also, curiously, that are all in relationships.
The Deal
Fast-forward to my current situation. I’m studying at the university, and have done so since August last year. This has been a great experience for me due to a combination of factors. During my bachelors, people weren’t very invested in getting to know you. I guess it took up less of a role in their life. Now that the education is getting a bit more serious, people are more invested. I think especially the fact that many people have uprooted their previous lives and are coming from abroad or from another city to study has quite an impact in this respect. People were very present right away, and everyone’s life seemed to revolve in the university-sphere. Getting past my initial insecurities, I got along with people quite well. With an Italian-Australian girl from the university living with her boyfriend on the other side of the street, I got to try something which I hadn’t tried before: seeing the same person on a daily basis in a friendship context. We have been doing a lot of things together, although mainly taking walks and talking (back when it wasn’t freezing, which is a couple of months ago). Having done her bachelor degree in Milano, she was very used to being very close with people and just having people drop by every day (whereas us Danes are more into planning things, keeping a distance), so I guess she wanted to compensate for that. I just appreciated any connection, and besides, we have gotten along great and have learned a good deal from being together.
Apart from that, I also got to know another girl quite well, a Russian girl. For my semester-project, I worked with this girl as well as two other girls. The group spent a lot of time together, and in the end, I spent a lot of time with this girl, just talking for some hours at her place after group meetings from time to time. In addition, we spent about a week together, the two of us working 12 hours each day on translating Danish transcriptions of interviews we had done for our project into English (she had been in Denmark for two years and had learnt the language quickly, having started out as an au pair). We both enjoyed the time together. It seems I was able to inspire her with my very different ways of thinking and at the same time it was exciting for us to explore our vast cultural differences, even though we dropped that topic a bit once it seemed to dominate too much (I’m very curious, so I could just keep asking for hours, and at some point we kept talking about Russia all the time). As she perhaps wanted to stay in Denmark long-term, but was unable to land a job as she didn’t speak Danish fluently (had no Danish friend, only socialized with the Russian-speaking friends of her husband), I began speaking Danish to her, with her responding in English. It was somewhat awkward at first and quite hard for her with the strain of the project, but we got used to it and it worked fairly well in the end. We had a lot of fun about it as well, but I think I was pushing her a bit, urging her to speak Danish, and I was challenging her on other personal issues as well, wanting to continue my previous success of changing her mindset (I challenged her on her on how she related to studies and group work, for instance, where I opposed my idea of having fun and being personal to her idea of being dutiful). I suppose the power balance was still in my favour since I had been a bit of an authoritarian figure in group work, the group relying a bit on my initiative and my previous knowledge of group work as a native.
This girl is married despite the fact that she is only 23 years old, and when our group work ended, she hinted at something which she had been telling me about earlier: since she spent so much time on studies, she preferred to spend what spare time she had with her husband, and doing group work together (something that had to be done regardless) wasn’t the same as seeing each other. Regardless, though, I felt that things were still going very well with her. I felt we had a great chemistry and some kind of unspoken bond due to our previous conversations, often smiling knowingly at each other. I talked well with her in class and followed her home quite a few times. She still seemed very interested in me and very open, keeping up our well-natured discussions. I always followed her to her door, which she commented was strange, but was still something she appreciated. At some point recently, I began to talk about spending some time together. One time when we were going back, I asked whether I could come inside to talk as we had done previously. She firmly said no, and talked about whether I didn’t have other things to do, since I was always willing to spend time with her doing silly things. She asked briefly whether I had any friends that I normally spent time with. Despite her firm rejection, she has an extremely sympathetic or at least conscientious piece of mind, so it was difficult for her to say no, and she did the following, which she had done once before during group work (where I, in a dramatic gesture, had gone down on my knees, begging her to help with some theory that I needed for my part of the analysis, not having had time to read it due to doing interview translations instead): she put on an empathic face, shook her head, but stood still, not wanting to go inside before she could see me leaving. I parted, step by step, looking back, while she was doing the same, both hesitant. A bit awkward, but at the same time we were both smiling broadly, knowing about our little interplays.
Interestingly, one day, we were going home by bus together with the Italian girl, and whereas we had all been sitting together and talking the last time we took the bus, this time they opted to sit together, where it wasn’t possible for me to sit with them. Disregarding me, they proceeded to talk together. So, anyway, within a few days I suggested that we spent time together again, this time saying that we could brainstorm ideas to have some ready for the upcoming group formation project, something she needed to do anyway. She said she would think about it, but wordlessly rejected it by shaking her head when I asked her about it again later that day. During our last class that day, we had one of our value-filled discussions because she had said she would never play any kind of board or card games, and I was challenging her to explain her feelings about this, while trying to explain why it could be fun or meaningful. She started getting defensive, perhaps because the power balance had now shifted (I was more interested in spending time with her than vice versa), and in the end asked me to drop the topic, with the Italian girl (who was sitting next to her) agreeing that sometimes I probed too hard. Afraid of having offended her, I reacted instinctively by trying to defend my actions, trying to explain why I did what I did, asking whether she felt I was being unfair. When we went home, the bus-incident repeated itself, and as soon as I could see that the two girls weren’t talking to me, I opted myself to sit somewhere else, allowing them their chance to talk (since they were talking enthusiastically and didn’t have the opportunity often).
The day after then came the group formation meeting, where, shockingly, very few people within my particular academic focus were willing to do group work (the rest had joined up in groups in advance). I wanted to work with and get to know some new people, so I was resigned about this. I certainly didn’t want to work alone. In the end, my choices boiled down to working with the Russian girl on a topic which didn’t initially fully convince me and one other girl from my previous group with a topic we hadn’t yet decided on. Although she had taking part in the group formation meeting, the Russian girl mentioned “… otherwise, I don’t mind working alone” when I was probing her, getting her to explain her topic for a third time during the meeting. After than, I sat and deliberated during a guest lecture, and I knew that regardless of my disappointment at the result of the group formation meeting, I would be happy to work with the Russian girl again, and all was definitely not lost. However, when I walked to ask her, she shook her head at me, even before I had fully formulated my proposal. Rejected, once again. The rejection was harder on me since it seemed specifically directed at me, because she had even made a light suggestion of doing group work with the Italian girl earlier. As a side note, the girl didn’t respond later that evening when I was showing her a few project suggestions, and I came to think of that she hasn’t actually responded to me either when I had written her a few times a month back. So, after the group formation meeting I was quite dejected, even though I ended up working with the other girl, who I met with to decide a topic the next day. I called my Italian friend and talked to her about it briefly, while asking her about which group she had gotten into. I must have sounded quite depressed about it, and ended the call quite quickly saying “don’t want to take up your personal time” (she has talked about needed her personal time for herself, and I could sense that this was it). There was this very interesting Lithuanian girl that I never really had the chance to get to know well (she went to different classes, different social occasions, etc.), who I was very curious about and wanted the chance to get to know, something I had been considering a few days earlier. Since I had gotten used to going to cafés with the Italian girl, this felt like a natural option. Feeling insecure after the rejection from the Russian, it wasn’t an easy situation, but I managed to ask her in a manner that wasn’t too awkward (started a casual conversation first), and she accepted. I was very uplifted by this, and it somehow helped me get past the previous rejection. Shortly hereafter I arrived last minute at my next class, where I managed to pull off a successful improvised presentation on a chapter I had read the night before. Everything was going well, and I had a delightful meeting in a café with my dad’s new wife, who was dropping by from out of town, attending a seminar, while I later met up with the girl I was working with the project on, finding a very interesting topic.
Regardless, the next day I still felt heavy at heart, and knew I had to talk to the Russian girl. That morning I took the bus early in hopes to run into her where she usually got on the bus (as I felt her body language was making it a bit difficult to connect with her in class), but I sat forty minutes in the cold since she had apparently gotten on the bus from somewhere else. I asked her in class if I should lay off my proposals of spending time together, since her body language signalled to me that she was somehow annoyed by it or was trying to evade me. I referred to what she had talked about earlier about spending time with her husband. She said, though not directly, that this was indeed the case, and that while her husband was home, she wanted to spend her time with him – appreciated family time, as she thought of it, also spending time visiting their common Russian friends in Denmark in many of her weekends. I explained how her rejections might have sparked some insecurity with me, which was perhaps also why I had reaction in the discussion about playing games, since I saw a parallel when she said she didn’t want to spend time. She noted that she felt that she sometimes had to say some things explicitly to me that would be obvious to others. After everything was out in the open, everything seemed fine, and we talked well, and she mentioned in passing that once she was completely absorbed with her project work, she might need some time off it, and she could maybe spend that time with me. Still, some kind of feeling lured that she had simply been too polite to tell me off directly when I had confronted her earlier (I remember that I made the link of her ignoring me online about the ideas for project brainstorming and not mentioning in later). When we were going home, I stayed in class to discuss something with the lecturer, and after I had finished that, I ran to catch up with the girl, since I had some things in mind I needed to ask her about and just really wanted to talk. She wasn’t at the bus stop, so I went back, and found her sitting at a university computer. After trying to print next week’s homework, she said she needed to go to the university library to pick up some books, and I said I would naturally join her. She said she would be a while, as if to give me a reason to leave, but I said it was fine. On the way, I told her about me waiting at the bus in the morning, and after saying “tell me this isn’t true”, she commented with a smile that she had come to expect this crazy kind of behaviour from me. We went to the library, and she seemed a bit flustered, but eventually things seemed fine, and we had a decent time together. We got on the bus, and we started talking about my applications for an internship abroad next semester, where she had been a bit after me for slacking. I said that it had been an exhausting week for different reasons. Here, I used to chance to mention that I had asked to Lithuanian girl to meet, which also seemed to shock her a bit. I guess I wanted to test it with her, since the two were fairly close friends (the Lithuanian girl has an Ukrainian fiancée, who is very close friends with the Ukrainian husband of the Russian girl), and also just enjoyed being completely honest to her. This transcended into me talking about my insecurities.
The weekend passed, and today I had classes with the Russian girl again. I really felt off, very uncomfortable, maybe due to excess social awareness from speaking openly about issues (or insecurities over not having found a time to meet with the Lithuanian girl, who during the weekend had responded “perhaps, we’ll see” in a text when I had asked her if she was free to meet any this week). I called the Italian girl to hear if she wanted to go eat at some place where we usually go for cheap meal Tuesdays, having missed her in class. It turned out that she was actually in class, just being outside smoking when I called. She thought that this was quite strange. She turned down my offer to get us on the list for dinner since she said she hadn’t been making plans for that, with us not having agreed on anything already. Also, she didn’t address the fact that I had sent her a text Saturday saying “Are you home? I want to drop by”, which she hadn’t answered. It seemed somewhat awkward to talk to her, whereas usually it’s very natural, since we are so used to each other by now. I guess it was due to me being so out of it. At some point, I moved next to the Russian girl and started talking to her, just very casually. It felt soothing to talk to her, since I wasn’t feeling myself, and part of it was probably due to thinking about wanting to connect with her. We were doing an evaluation form for the class, and I noticed that the Russian girl was hesitant to write something down. She mentioned that she didn’t want to put something offensive. I was trying to get her to say what it was, insisting that I didn’t think any criticism would really be offensive. In the end she said that she could do it herself, and I made a mock of trying to look away. She said that I was really annoying, and sometimes I was a bit too much. I couldn’t help but probe at that a bit later and get her to explain why. The Italian girl chimed in and said that I had to respect people’s private thoughts, and the Russian agreed. I think it was mostly the Russian girl resisting the fact that I was too eagerly involved in insignificant things she did. It ended up in quite an awkward situation, with me trying to explain where I was coming from. They both left class early, while I was still trying to explain myself (which I knew was no good, really I just wanted to get some feelings out in the open), and cited not wanting to do the case study in the last part of class as their reason. A few hours ago, I wrote the Russian girl online, asking cautiously if she was there (didn’t want to write anything if she wasn’t there to respond). She wrote back “no, and I don't want to talk”. I really wanted to get this off my chest, and I dare not overload the Russian girl with any more of my “silly” problems, so I decided that I wouldn’t talk to her about it next time I saw her. I still remember how she told me a while back that she always hated it when her girlfriends from back home were calling her, crying on her shoulder, and she had to talk to them for hours. She didn’t seem to have any empathy for that, and I think, being quite pragmatic, she didn’t want to spend her time on such things, despite not being able to say no. Not telling anyone was unimaginable, so I considered talking about everything to the Italian girl, but I now have the feeling that I am overly depending on her, and feel that she has reacted a bit adversely a few times earlier when I have overloaded her with my brutal honesty, although mostly she has been very good about it and quite honest herself. I guess really that it was her body language today that deterred me, and that’s why I have eventually ended up telling my story here.
You see, another story precedes this, and puts it into perspective. I have also gotten to know a Danish girl at the university fairly well. Actually, at my first day of classes, I noticed her, and instantly felt a sexual attraction. This attraction faded away as soon as I got to know her and think of her in another way. At some social events I had ended up talking well with this girl, and we were a group of four people who became very close. She seemed really to take a liking to me, talking about how she really loved discussing with me, how everything I said in class seemed extremely clever, how my courage when talking randomly to foreigners I didn’t know in class was amazing, how things were never awkward in a group of people with me around. She always smiled in a special way and me and seemed very open about everything. Meanwhile, I quite liked her; she was an interesting girl, very wilful, different and with a bit of an attitude. We spent a bit less time together at the end of the semester, but when the other two in our little group dropped out to join another faculty, it seemed apparent for us to join together, and I naturally sat to eat with her in the canteen at lunch breaks. We met up with our two friends, now studying philosophy, and we all got to talking together in a café. Whenever we had talked earlier, we had always been quite honest, and had talked about different things about our childhood and upbringing. When the other guy in the group brought up how guys sexually relate to girls, I objected, and talked about my views on sex and how it didn’t really have to play any role in friendships. I had earlier been thinking about how it might be interesting to mention to this Danish girl that one of the first days, when I was attracted to her, I was sitting behind her in class and had placed my feet adjacent to hers, so that they were slightly touching, something I felt was sensual, although in the end, it was very innocent. I didn’t know if she had been in on it, since she placed her feet down on mine. As I thought she fancied me, I didn’t think she would mind the topic. I mentioned it as an example of the difference between how you initially might think of a girl and how it’s different when you know the girl, where sexual thoughts need not play a role. It instantly became very awkward for me to explain, and I was stammering to say it, my entire face blushing. At this point we were only me, the Danish girl and the other guy. It was quite an awkward situation, since she reacted strongly and said that she felt that it felt incestuous because she didn’t think about me that way, saying that it was embarrassing for her, stressing that I obviously didn’t know how to talk to girls. We had this awkward talk on the way home about it, trying to put it behind us and clear up everything. The other guy was somehow trying to excuse my actions while I kept quiet. Pretty much all I talked about was how it was a good learning experience for me and said I appreciated her telling me instead of just being angry and saying nothing. Things were alright after that, and we didn’t seem too awkward, although I kept wondering whether it was on her mind. One day, we were riding on the bus together, and she seemed a bit distracted. Without saying anything, her body language seemed very negative. Our conversation came along just fine when I finally started it, and I was trying to cheer her up a bit as she seemed a bit out of it. She called a friend and seemed to need to meet up with her to talk about some issue. I didn’t probe too much, just gave her to chance to say what was on her mind, which she didn’t. As soon as she had gotten off the bus, I received a text from her where she said sorry if she had come off as a bit negative and insisted that it wasn’t about me, that it was something personal. We were going to a big university party one weekend together with the one of the friends from our group. We ended up being five, as the Danish girl had brought a girlfriend and I invited a guy who was good friends with all of us. Everything started fine, and we ended up eating pizza, drinking beer and talking intimately in a university classroom for a few hours, all being very relaxed. We then went to the party, and the Danish girl bought me beers, since I had paid for the pizza, and people were in a good mood. One thing that struck me was that the three girls had completely isolated themselves from us, sitting side by side talking, us not being able to hear them from the loud music. Soon they were gone, and I just enjoyed the party with my friend. At some point we thought that it would be fun to see if we could find the Danish girl, so we walked around the party for an hour or so, while keeping an eye out for her. When I finally bumped into her, I laughed and explained that we had been looking for her for an hour. She asked whether we had nothing better to do, and I said “no” with a dumb drunken smile. Somewhere around this point, the Danish girl pointed out that we should go get the jackets, just to get that out of the way and to be sure that me and my friend didn’t depend on the girls later. We were going there, but I got interrupted by another girl from the university, who talked to me for a short while. After that, I was unable to find my group, and I was running around, back and forth, outside in the icy cold weather for half an hour, wearing only my T shirt, getting kind of desperate. I posted myself at the exit when the party was ending, and my friend came back for me with my jacket. I asked where the girls were, and he said that they had asked him to go look for me since they were more dependent on catching the bus for some reason. We went to the busses, and it turned out that neither we nor the girls had bought a ticket in advance, and none of us could go. So, the girl started walking elsewhere and we followed suit. I was wondering why they seemed so intent on leaving us behind. They had called a cab, and since my friend would be able to walk home (he lived nearby), I asked if the girls didn’t have room for one more person in the cab. The Danish girl just responded back “no”, and already earlier I had felt that her body language was very strange and negative. We went along anyway, and as it turns out, the friend of the Danish girl had some kind of sickness which made it has for her to balance when walking. Therefore, it was pretty much completely impossible for her to get through the snow (the taxi wouldn’t come to us, had to meet it at a petrol station). The Danish girl was unable to help her, so in the end I managed, with terrible efforts (often having to drag her up from the snow), to get her through the snow and to the station. This didn’t seem to make the Danish girl ease up on me, even though I think eventually it made a difference. The taxi dropped off the now fairly incapacitated friend of the Danish girl, and we ended up just the three of us; me, the Danish girl and the girl from our group. I decided that I might as well take a drink with the girls at a bar to finish off the night before we headed home. We had trouble finding a place that was open, and the Danish girl was still acting really strange. She seemed to try to ignore me and want to get away from me. If it wasn’t for the fact that we were with the other girl, I think she would have ditched me, and she talked to several guys she knew about joining up and going somewhere, without that amounting to anything. After having stayed at the last place for a short while before it closed, we headed home. The other girl split, so it was just me and the Danish girl, walking home through the rain (she lived nearby me). I asked her directly why she was so angry with me. She opened up, and talked about how she had been dealing with issues from her childhood, where the failing of her parents had forced her to grow up too quickly. She had had an uneven relationship with them, with her having to be the one taking responsibility. She said she had had many uneven relationships, and was dealing with this. She couldn’t take it any more, which is why she reacted to me. She said that I was depending on her too much, and seemed to rely on her because I didn’t know how to do many things, which is what she reacted to. While I had thought earlier that perhaps she fancied me, she talked about how she had always been very nice and accommodating at the surface, despite harbouring these feeling for quite a while (long before the “don’t know how to talk to girls” incident). She was simply always overbearing with others and was too easily ready to carry the load of others. She was a bit apologetic when letting this because she felt it was a bit unfair, but I told her that I was the one burdening her, no vice versa. I told her that I had been oblivious to all of this and admitted that I was still a little boy in some aspects, and didn’t really want to grow up. She seemed greatly relieved, and said that she was really happy that she had the chance to tell me. She said that it gave her piece of mind to know that I recognized what she had pointed out and was aware of it, even if I couldn’t make any promise to change. After this I have kept away from her, and she obviously needed some space and wanted to break off of limit her relationship to me for the sake of her mental health. And I guess this pretty much sums up the essence of my tale of co-dependency.
There is actually one other girl that I considered telling about this. She was a close friend of my sister in law and I met her when I travelled with my family around Iceland for two weeks, where she came along. This girl was really sweet, and I very quickly became interested in talking to her. In the end, it all ended abruptly, with her being late for her train after we flew back to Denmark, and I didn’t get the chance to say a proper goodbye. I felt really bad about this, so I wrote her a short feeling-induced message on Facebook (as I noticed she had surprisingly added me, making me think that she had spared me a thought), hoping to rekindle something. To my surprise, she wrote back enthusiastically and shared many of my feelings. We had a period where we wrote for several hours each day on Facebook, back and forth, and the way things were shaping up, she really seemed to be my soul mate. I mentioned wanting to meet up to be able to develop our friendship, and she agreed, although being nervous about it (she was quite insecure socially like me). It never happened due to various complications with her exams and eventually her job and whatnot. I haven’t heard from her in a long while by now, and even though there was something on Facebook about her boyfriend being ill, I doubt this is keeping her from writing to me. The way things developed, she wrote less when she had less time. I wrote with the same intensity, and kept on writing even when she didn’t answer. A few times she would answer back with some tidbits and I would send back a storm of thoughts. We were sharing a lot of things about our feeling and experiences, and I kept venting my feelings and thoughts, something which she had told me she found very interesting. However, with no response for a long time now (and me having provoked her to respond a few times, without requesting it directly), I’m starting to think that I even managed to overload this girl with my brutally honest feelings and become too dependent on her for emotional support, not having many other places to turn.
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Holy wall of text... sorry I only got 1/3rd way through before my eyes started to bleed. However, I will pass along some advice. Don't get obsessed with girls, take up a sport perhaps. That's a great way to get fit and social and build confidence. NO girl is attracted to a weak/boring guy who has no self-interests.
Lastly, that's a dirty and desperate move to try and steal another guy's girl especially if they are in a longterm relationship.
Sorry if I'm wrong about my assumptions but your post is like a mini-book.
Good luck
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Sweden33719 Posts
I don't have time to read all of this right now, but did you create a blog first, or just try to post a new topic in the blog section? I think you have to setup your blog name etc before you post.
Don't think there are any restrictions on it that you wouldn't meet...
IE:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/myblog.php
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I think you need to specifically create the blog first before posting?
and wow I can't breathe so much text
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This requires a blog, and even then the answer is that you're thinking about it too much.
Make more friends, do other things with your time.
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someone need to sparknotes this
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find an asian girl, do whatever you want.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 17 2010 09:24 SkylineSC wrote:
someone need to sparknotes this
He feels that certain factors in his youth have led him to be very emotionally needy as well as socially awkward. He then recounts several stories which prove that to be resoundingly true. Most of these revolve around various female friends which he burdens by constantly heaping his emotional problems on them, not giving them any space, and ignoring all the social cues they give him.
My advice to the OP is to try to relax and feel more secure in yourself. Don't try to live with co-dependency; conquer it. You need to establish some independence for yourself, because nobody can bear your burdens for you.
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On March 17 2010 09:24 SkylineSC wrote:
someone need to sparknotes this
LOL
User was warned for this post.
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Make a tl:dr version please.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Seems like there is one grammar error there...
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I actually read everything (seriously). You need to take it easy and stop over analyzing things. Sometimes you always try to be the initiator and spew your thoughts out, but why do you think you are the one to MAKE someone like you what if someone makes you like them (make as in puts the kind of effort YOU put in). Some people aren't as brutally open as you are (for good reasons) take things slow, don't try so hard. A relationship requires effort from two people, not just one.
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Hey guys,
Asjo clearly put a lot of thought into this post. If you can't be bothered to read it and put some effort into a worthwhile reply, don't reply at all.
Thanks.
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On March 17 2010 09:24 SkylineSC wrote:
someone need to sparknotes this
User was temp banned for this post.
He's a university student in his twenties that's slightly socially awkward with girls and he writes a war and peace describing his experiences.
So pretty much like any other girl blog on TL, except 50 times longer.
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That was a pretty long story.
Thing that I noticed is that you mention guys maybe twice in this tale. Do you actually have any male friends, or do you just focus on females? Not judging or looking down or anything, it's just that having some pizza and light hearted talk with some buddys really help.
As said above, don't focus your interest on only one person, try to diversifie your interests.
Not to sound harsh, but from what i read, you seem a very suffocative type of person. Don't try to be all the time with those girls or to "probe" their minds like you say you do. People really need their space.
Also, lossen up, don't over analyse everything and learn to say "oh well, fuck it", perservering is good but not all the time.
quality story tho
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
Hm, as SagaZ asked, do you have any close guyfriends? While it's good to have girl friends, you can have the same quality of in-depth conversations with guyfriends minus the awkwardness that arose several times because the girls you talked to were in serious relationships. It seems like you just really enjoy the intimacy of being able to converse with someone on a consistent level and if indeed that is the case, I would further encourage making some good guyfriends because it's just not going to be very feasible with girls in relationships. Also, it seems that because you started feeling strongly attracted towards these girls, you had a tendency to believe they were also feeling something towards you because of subtle things they did. I would suggest not immediately jumping to this conclusion because it will skew your vision of where the relationship is headed when there's the possibility the girl is actually not feeling that way (and as your blog has shown, the girls you talked to didn't). And know that it is definitely possible to have a platonic girl friend and also have those in-depth conversations! Again, I'm not sure if it's just that intimacy you're looking for or a girlfriend, but if it is the former, you can have healthy, quality, platonic relationships with girls as well!
I'm not sure how much this will help but I hope it does somewhat!
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I would just like to caution against following advice given on a forum too readily. . . You seem to have a lot of things to talk about so try to talk it out with someone you know and trust so the advice given to you will feel real. You can go to a therapist as well. In Sweden its 10€ an hour - Denmark shouldn't differ too much. People who understand your culture might understand your thoughts better.
As far as your post goes - I recognize a lot of it in myself. Feeling angst over how the other person perceives the situation or myself and thinking a lot about it. Everyone I know does it. The terminology you used to describe the relationships seems to be taken from fastseduction.com and the pick-up scene. That's not a healthy scene, nor is it a good place to learn how to have meaningful relationships. . . A better place to start is Martin Buber's book "Between Man and Man". And it sounds like a lot of the people you met aren't the nicest in the world. Maybe you aren't either. Good luck trying to make sense of all of this - like everyone else.
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"Self-improvement is masturbation."
"Self-destruction? Now we're getting somewhere." -- Fight Club
I fucking love this movie. If you haven't seen it, the gist of it is you are who you envision you are; you are not your pair of khakis. Stuff won't fill emptiness. You have to look inside. If you haven't seen it, I really reccomend it. Even if you haven't seen it in a while drop your shit tonight, go to a store, and get this movie. Buy some good food too. Call up your guy friends and tell them "You free? Good. I'm watching fight club and I've got good shit to eat. Get over here."
There is something about this movie, something about Brad Pitt's performance which makes you want to go beat the shit out of yourself or somebody else. This feeling is not giving a fuck. You might have a little "I don't give a damn" high after seeing it. Remember this feeling.
There is an emotional level inside of you. For the longest time I wouldn't say shit, voice my opinion, or do anything. Other people could pump this level up or deflate it. Every time something good happens, it goes up. If something bad happens, it goes down. It took me a long time to realize the only person who can control this level is me.
For the next week, starting from this moment, your level will not go down for longer than a minute. If it gets deflated, you have a minute to rethink shit. One time this guy went "You're really fucking weird" in front of a bunch of other guys and it killed me. My level went way down. If this happens to you, you're not going to: get pissed back at him (thats petty), try to defend yourself (gives him power over you), or not say anything back (verbal or otherwise). You are going to give him a weird look and then say "anyway" and talk about something else or go "women like the weird guys." Whats important is that you will be completely unaffected by his judgement. You will not give a damn.
Today it was cold outside, so I smuggled a warm baked potato out of a buffet to use as a hand-warmer. It was the best god damn potato I've ever used to warm my hands. Before I had to go inside, I launched it over the roof of the building I was going into. I heard somebody start screaming on the other side so I ran in. Look, I know nailing someone with a potato was kind of a dick thing to do but it does not change the fact it was motherfucking awesome aim.
The only way your level is allowed to go is up. You will not dwell on negative thoughts, and if you ever come to a situation where you stop right beforehand with a thought "what will everybody else think" then you must do whatever you originally thought of. | | <-- see this space I marked off? In the time it took me to press space bar I thought of something awesome I could do. I'll pm it to you because I'm selfish and don't want everybody else to read it. You will acknowledge that this emotional level exists, and you will monitor/exert control over it for a week. 7 days from now you will know how to not give a damn and ride a bike in a pink bathrobe just because you fucking can (actually I dont reccomend it there are really better things you can do with your time).
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Just another tip. If you do something cool, you do a friend a favor, or you achieve something big, keep it to yourself. If something makes you laugh then laugh, but don't look at your friends or parade it around for attention. Don't open up with your words but your actions. Whenever I talk to my friends about girls I just make myself nuts and wreck my chances with them. Internalize your validation system.
Most importantly, you need secrets. You need to have things that are just yours. If you tell a woman one of those deeply personal things, she better have earned it.
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You appear to be extremely needy and insecure, two things women aren't interested in a man. While women will happily understand you, you make inappropriate sexual advances towards women when they aren't interested. You confuse friend interest with sexual interest. You assume that these women are interested in the same thing you are, instead of viewing they behavior based on what they are interested in.
Overall, you don't understand women well enough to be making assumption (which the majority are obviously wrong), and then are surprised when you are rejected. You're punching a wall and still aren't learning why you keep breaking your hand. As long as your emotional needs require reciprocation, you will find rejection often.
If you want a better identification and analysis of "Why", you should see a therapist. They will probably be able to better identify what mistakes you keep repeating and why. You might want to start by listing what you think women expect from a man, and then putting down what criteria you meet/don't meet.
There is also one alternative behavior that matches what you are doing, depending on what your responses are.
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Also read Fight Club it's really great, watch the movie second hand lions for a more easy going, chilled out but still awesome.
I find that we tend to inflate the importance of bullshit in our lives to the point of spiritual and mental depravity. People always look outside for things they want when they need to realize what is inside of them first.
Lately I've been losing inhibitions regarding social expectation and politeness, the need for acceptance etc. I really believe Tyler Durden's line "I am free in all of the ways you are not", I haven't reached that level of freedom though.I haven't reached any level of not giving a fuck thats dangerous.
I think people are raised to fear failure too much in the modern western world, to succeed you must fail, with women and friends and everything.
i don't mean to be condescending I consider myself a noob in life, I need to follow these principles too.
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I'm about 2 pages into 11 into it, so I'll have to edit further thoughts into it as I get the chance.
Having unrealistic expectations of a girl is going to lead to a lot of trouble, so I applaud the female friend approach. Because you want and need so much out of a girlfriend, this makes the obsession worse, as you noted. You should be able to live a healthy, functional life and have your social/support needs fulfilled with your current friends and family, without a girlfriend. Otherwise, you're not seeing the girl for who she is, but for what she can do for you. This will make it harder to meet girls that you don't know well and put too much pressure on girls you do know.
Successful relationships aren't created two incomplete people, they are by two complete people who find even greater satisfaction with each other. Of course making yourself happy is easier said than done.
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Regarding Fight Club - Theres a reason Tyler gets shot and dies in the end. . . And there is a reason why Jack holds Marla's hand while the buildings crumble. Don't forget about that part. . . It's important. But it's perhaps not as appealing as being reckless like Tyler.
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Wow, I actually finished the whole thing. I must say it fits the strategy section rules where you have to attach a replay, and this was the replay I guess.
My feeling is that you subconsciously attach yourself to girls who have a steady partner already, so you can tell yourself "it didn't work out because she had a guy already." Kind of an excuse in advance, although you may not think of it that way. Towards the beginning of your story you said you had some sexual feelings, so if you really wanted to consummate these feelings, why not attach yourself to the usual slutty party girl group most institutions of learning have?
The main thing is to sit down and figure out exactly what is it that you want in this stage of life with the opposite sex, and from there you will be able to formulate the next step of action.
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This is a very bad case of oneitus. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket.
edit: No pun intended.
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http://roissy.wordpress.com/
Dude is a giant egotist / douche, but what he says is true and it works. You need to stop thinking is this girl going to like me and start being more confident. Have the mindset, does this girl deserve me instead.
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On March 17 2010 18:54 Emon_ wrote:
Regarding Fight Club - Theres a reason Tyler gets shot and dies in the end. . . And there is a reason why Jack holds Marla's hand while the buildings crumble. Don't forget about that part. . . It's important. But it's perhaps not as appealing as being reckless like Tyler.
When you free yourself is when you'll get the girl. Tyler was both characters, but the Brad Pit Tyler wasn't all of Tyler--just the parts Tyler envisioned himself. When he was killed Tyler combined all the parts of himself. The important part wasn't that they were holding hands, its that he took her hand and she wanted to be a part of his life. He looked at her and went "Marla, for the first time in my life I'm really ok" and she was quiet and willing to see what happened next. At first she while she was being brought up she was pissed at him and wanted to leave, but he brought her into his world.
On March 18 2010 03:33 bdams19 wrote:http://roissy.wordpress.com/Dude is a giant egotist / douche, but what he says is true and it works. You need to stop thinking is this girl going to like me and start being more confident. Have the mindset, does this girl deserve me instead.
You gotta be egotist and I wouldn't say he's a douche. I'd also say he's not successful at what he does. He's right about some things (probably by mistake) and wrong about more things.
DON’T give blowjobs before you have had sex with him. An early, pre-sex blowjob says one thing to a man — slut. And sluts don’t impress men as marriage prospects.
The hell is he talking about? Judging women before he's even met them and DENYING BLOWJOBS? Calling women who do things men like sluts? What the hell will this accomplish besides make them not do those things? You can totally marry a gal who got down on you 2 hours after meeting you.
I read more of his articles. What he says might work, but the way he thinks is just coming from the wrong place. Don't read that shit and take it for the truth. It's bullshit.
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Thanks for the pointers about making a blog. Now that I figured it out, I have created a blog, but I guess I cannot transfer this topic to the blog myself.
It's been nice to see some feedback on the topic. I guess it good that I don't feel I'm talking to myself. I did not want to contaminate (I want people to form their opinions without too many of my predispositions and maybe give a different perspective) or dissuade the replies to the blog, but since interest seems to possibly be dying out a bit, I might as well clear up a few misconceptions.
First off, let me say that I mainly anticipated the following two kinds of replies:
(1) Hang out with more guyfriends - Why spend so much time worrying about girls? Just enjoy time with your guyfriends and stop thinking so much about those girls, which only really amounts to frustration and headache. Girls are for relationships, guys are for friends.
(2) Get laid - This reeks of a guy who's simply desperate to get laid. Once you get laid, you will feel better about it, and not worry so much about these small things. You just need to relax man, and by the way, here is a link for how to date women.
Let me reiterate, though. I'm not really looking to date women, nor am I looking to somehow manipulate girls to like me (I always treat people with respect). With "the Danish girl", for instance, the reason that I was able to tell her about the feel incident was that it seemed to innocent from my current perspective as it was basically a non-factor. If I was only really looking to charm and woe girls, I guess it would be a good deal easier, but I'm not really the type for that, and it's not the way I relate to women. I'm simply looking for meaningful friendships since I'm curious about girls and getting to know them is what seems important in my life at the moment. And if I happen to get to know a girl who is single, sex might be part of the deal eventually, but it's not something I concern myself with (despite whatever my instincts might tell me), and I'm not looking to do it before knowing the girl really well, where the sex might become the result of a natural intimacy. I don't mean to trivialize this topic by going into a deeper discussion about how I feel about sex, so I'll just leave it at that.
Also, as mentioned, I'm quite confident in many ways. One thing that I always attribute to being bullied in my childhood is that I'm never afraid to be myself. Eventually, after freeing myself from the imminent need for recognition and acceptance, I have been able to largely disregard what expectations people might have for me. While this probably has only made it harder for me socially, it means that I'm unaffected by these expectations and don't have to be fearful about the judgement of others. I'm easily able to perform in pressure situations like talking in front of a big crowd, and I'm not afraid to stand out or come off awkward. I'm able to be brutally honest about my feelings and about myself. I am able to remove some inhibitions that enables me to do things in social situations that most wouldn't. However, the thing is, that I can sometimes feel uncomfortable in crowds, have difficulties relating to people in such setting. And whenever I attach myself from a girl, I can have periods where I'm vulnerable and where I desperately need her acceptance. And when it comes to conversations, normally my first conversation with anyone is great, but later I often overthink things, greatly dependent on the context.
Come to think of it, I remember that when I finished writing my project last semester, I didn't really feel any great need to see the Russian girl. I felt it had been really easy to get to know her, but found other things more interesting. I had enough in the Italian girl and all the people around the university. While I still really enjoyed my time with her, I remember thinking at one point that I wanted to keep in contact to make sure that we could speak Danish together, since I thought that she would be a wonderful contribution to our society and I wanted to help her with her long-term goals. What changed? Suddenly, for the last two weeks, I have been feeling a bit strange about it, I guess. Maybe I just got into a bad pattern after the first rejection. Or maybe it's the fact that by the end of next week, all classes for this semester has ended. Next semester I have an internship abroad and the final semester people will have gone different places to make their master thesis. So, basically, I might not get the chance to see these people again.
On March 17 2010 17:54 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
For the next week, starting from this moment, your level will not go down for longer than a minute. If it gets deflated, you have a minute to rethink shit. One time this guy went "You're really fucking weird" in front of a bunch of other guys and it killed me. My level went way down. If this happens to you, you're not going to: get pissed back at him (thats petty), try to defend yourself (gives him power over you), or not say anything back (verbal or otherwise). You are going to give him a weird look and then say "anyway" and talk about something else or go "women like the weird guys." Whats important is that you will be completely unaffected by his judgement. You will not give a damn.
Yes, I have watched Fight Club, and while it was artistic and special, I admittedly found it a slight bit boring at times. Your post does not seem that serious, but I thought I would address this quote as an example of what I have mentioned above. The situation you depicted wouldn't affect me the least. The way I see it, it's the guy who says that who has a problem (depending on whether he's trying to get to you or just simply stating it). I would either ignore it, I would say "true" or something like that if I felt the guy would feel bad about me ignoring him or if I wanted to connect with the girl and be friendly, maybe joke about it. I could get affected by the sheer negativity about it, but not because it would make me unsure of myself.
On March 17 2010 20:18 noobilly wrote:
My feeling is that you subconsciously attach yourself to girls who have a steady partner already, so you can tell yourself "it didn't work out because she had a guy already." Kind of an excuse in advance, although you may not think of it that way. Towards the beginning of your story you said you had some sexual feelings, so if you really wanted to consummate these feelings, why not attach yourself to the usual slutty party girl group most institutions of learning have?
Might be. I mean, it would make sense that I cannot relate properly to women because instinctively, I want sex, which I am denying myself the chance to pursue. However, I must say that I was interested in most of these women before I had any idea that they were in a relationship, which shoots down the idea a bit.
I must note that I'm feeling much better today than I did yesterday, and have had a smile on my face most of the day, feeling very calm and confident. So, it probably has been therapeutic to write this, and maybe by retelling the story I have managed to attach different value to it. Feelings can be so volatile at times, even though for the majority of time I'm a quite happy and very positive guy. I do have spells where I feel terribly lonely, which can make me a bit desperate. I'll see tomorrow, though, when I see the Russian girl. I have decided not to address my insecurities with her unless it comes up naturally, and stay away from her unless she has a positive body language, giving her time to get over her sour feelings.
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On March 18 2010 05:20 Asjo wrote:
Let me reiterate, though. I'm not really looking to date women, nor am I looking to somehow manipulate girls to like me (I always treat people with respect). With "the Danish girl", for instance, the reason that I was able to tell her about the feel incident was that it seemed to innocent from my current perspective as it was basically a non-factor. If I was only really looking to charm and woe girls, I guess it would be a good deal easier, but I'm not really the type for that, and it's not the way I relate to women. I'm simply looking for meaningful friendships since I'm curious about girls and getting to know them is what seems important in my life at the moment. And if I happen to get to know a girl who is single, sex might be part of the deal eventually, but it's not something I concern myself with (despite whatever my instincts might tell me), and I'm not looking to do it before knowing the girl really well, where the sex might become the result of a natural intimacy. I don't mean to trivialize this topic by going into a deeper discussion about how I feel about sex, so I'll just leave it at that.
How you feel about sex is at the core of this. People are sexual beings. Don't beat around the bush and not be truthful with yourself: your ultimate goal is to find a girl you enjoy being around and consummate that relationship. You can do a girl right away and still have a successful relationship with her. You don't think you're that kind of guy because you don't believe you can be that kind of guy. The first step is a shift in thinking.
Yes, I have watched Fight Club, and while it was artistic and special, I admittedly found it a slight bit boring at times. Your post does not seem that serious
I am completely serious. That post was entirely stream of consciousness with proper grammar and punctuation. The first two lines are what I'm trying to do and what will help you out too. Break down any conceptions of yourself that you have about everything, break it all down and change it. You want to be good with women so eventually when you meet that girl, you have enough practice to keep her. Improve yourself by pleasing yourself. Break yourself down and recreate you the way you envision you. My post was how that movie actually started my personal process so I thought it might help you too
I mean, it would make sense that I cannot relate properly to women because instinctively, I want sex, which I am denying myself the chance to pursue. However, I must say that I was interested in most of these women before I had any idea that they were in a relationship, which shoots down the idea a bit.
Now we're getting somewhere
I must note that I'm feeling much better today than I did yesterday, and have had a smile on my face most of the day, feeling very calm and confident. So, it probably has been therapeutic to write this, and maybe by retelling the story I have managed to attach different value to it. Feelings can be so volatile at times, even though for the majority of time I'm a quite happy and very positive guy. I do have spells where I feel terribly lonely, which can make me a bit desperate. I'll see tomorrow, though, when I see the Russian girl.
Depends on how much sleep you get and what you let yourself think about
I have decided not to address my insecurities with her unless it comes up naturally, and stay away from her unless she has a positive body language, giving her time to get over her sour feelings.
Go say hi, make a joke to make things comfortable, then distance yourself. Let her come to you.
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Whew.. Dude, I don't know if you're gonna read this far into the comments, but I just finnished reading the whole thing and all I can say is this: I didn't know I had a dobbleganger.
Held og lykke med kvinderne, ellers  Det var virkelig noget af en oplevelse at få sådan en indsigt i en anden persons liv.. Tak.
Edit: With greetings from Jylland!
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KurtistheTurtle, I'm sorry to have misunderstood then, if your post was fully serious. As explained, for me it's not really about being myself or being confident (in general) - I have those things down already.
No, my distance to sex is for principal reason. I'm quite certain of that. Which is why the discussion would really be at length if pursued.
I did have something funny in mind to talk about and I was also thinking that some positive impression was needed to shift her thoughts. However, as I said, it depends on her demeanor; if she's not ready, I doubt I'll be able to force anything, and even a joke will be awkward.
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you).
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Whew, I read it all, but I don't have much advice to give, I think its really good that you talk to people about your problems, but you have to be cautious not be friend zoned by sharing too much, in the end you lack confidence, which you can gain, but often you will feel like a prat.
Good effort in your posting however.
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On March 18 2010 07:05 HnR)hT wrote:
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you).
It seems I have sort of made sex the issue myself with my comments. All depends on how you tell the story
Your point hinges on sexual attraction, and I have to point out that I certainly haven't had sexual thoughts about all of these women, and whatever I have had has been very limited, not playing a role in the relationship. The Italian girl asking curiously if I was gay would be a good testament to that. The one girl that I have described sexual attraction towards, was perhaps the one I was eventually the least emotionally invested in, and even then it was only before getting to know her.
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@Kurtis - Sure, Jack freed himself of Tyler. This proves that Tyler was a destructive and bad part of him. He shows this by opposing Project Mayhem, showing sympathy for Bob's corpse and ultimately, killing the Tyler part of himself. He didn't "bring" anyone "into his world" - he freed himself of Tyler and resumed being a human.
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HnR)hT
United States3468 Posts
On March 18 2010 07:19 Asjo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 07:05 HnR)hT wrote:
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you). It seems I have sort of made sex the issue myself with my comments. All depends on how you tell the story Your point hinges on sexual attraction, and I have to point out that I certainly haven't had sexual thoughts about all of these women, and whatever I have had has been very limited, not playing a role in the relationship. The Italian girl asking curiously if I was gay would be a good testament to that. The one girl that I have described sexual attraction towards, was perhaps the one I was eventually the least emotionally invested in, and even then it was only before getting to know her.
Well, I doubt you have similar feelings toward any of your male acquaintances - or am I wrong?
By "sexual attraction" I don't mean to suggest that you're actually fantasizing about having sex with the woman in question. It's not uncommon that, when we place a woman on a pedestal we don't dare to imagine her in sexual situations (call it the Saint Mary effect). But you should never be thinking of women in this way in the first place.
It still seems to be the case that the feeling you have for these women is basically a sexual one. If so, then you have to acknowledge it or you will certainly not get anywhere.
Of course, I could be completely wrong and you happen to have a weird emotional need for women, and only women, which is COMPLETELY unrelated to sexuality 
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On March 18 2010 07:47 HnR)hT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2010 07:19 Asjo wrote:On March 18 2010 07:05 HnR)hT wrote:
It sounds like you are fooling yourself. What you really want is to have sex with a woman you love, which doesn't exactly make you special. There are quite a few signs from what you wrote that deep down you're after sex, even though you're telling yourself otherwise. It is not possible to be "friends", or have any meaningful relationships with, a woman you want sexually (which is obviously true with you and the women in your story) but who is sexually unobtainable (for you). It seems I have sort of made sex the issue myself with my comments. All depends on how you tell the story Your point hinges on sexual attraction, and I have to point out that I certainly haven't had sexual thoughts about all of these women, and whatever I have had has been very limited, not playing a role in the relationship. The Italian girl asking curiously if I was gay would be a good testament to that. The one girl that I have described sexual attraction towards, was perhaps the one I was eventually the least emotionally invested in, and even then it was only before getting to know her. Well, I doubt you have similar feelings toward any of your male acquaintances - or am I wrong? By "sexual attraction" I don't mean to suggest that you're actually fantasizing about having sex with the woman in question. It's not uncommon that, when we place a woman on a pedestal we don't dare to imagine her in sexual situations (call it the Saint Mary effect). But you should never be thinking of women in this way in the first place. It still seems to be the case that the feeling you have for these women is basically a sexual one. If so, then you have to acknowledge it or you will certainly not get anywhere. Of course, I could be completely wrong and you happen to have a weird emotional need for women, and only women, which is COMPLETELY unrelated to sexuality
I think I have been confusing what your comment was directed at. I thought it was directed at the women in my narratives, not the ones I obsessed with earlier (to greater and lesser degrees). Except my "first true love", I think you might have a point. However, those incidents are quite different from my current situation, where I am not really obsessing about anyone, and just have a need for close friendships with women, and maybe motherly affection and support on top of that. Yes, you might call it a "weird emotional need".
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On March 18 2010 06:08 Lovin wrote:Whew.. Dude, I don't know if you're gonna read this far into the comments, but I just finnished reading the whole thing and all I can say is this: I didn't know I had a dobbleganger. Held og lykke med kvinderne, ellers Det var virkelig noget af en oplevelse at få sådan en indsigt i en anden persons liv.. Tak. Edit: With greetings from Jylland!
I must admit that this was the comment I enjoyed the most. What this guy is saying, in Danish, is that it was quite an experience to gain such insight into the life of another person, saying thanks. When I was trying to think of the justification of my original post, I was considering who would bother to read through it. I realized that I would greatly appreciate something like this myself, and that therefore people like me would be interested in reading it.
I saw the Italian girl yesterday, and she was acting fairly natural around me when we walked and took the bus to the university. And it turned out that she had probably sent her response to me Saturday to the wrong number, since she had to send back the text from her boyfriend's phone, not having any credit on her own. Later that day, when I happened to speak to her online, it became clear that she wanted to somehow address the incident where she and the Russian left class. She was quite careful and very indirect at first, but I provoked her to speak more directly about it. Either way, we quickly moved past it, and it didn't seem to have much of an impact.
Today I had classes with the Russian girl. It was interesting, because today I relied much more in my own thoughts and was "within myself", possibly inspired by some of the comments of the Italian girl the previous evening (not consciously, though). I didn't have any agenda apart from just being there and taking part in class. I felt very comfortable and calm and enjoyed everything the way I usually do. I think that maybe for the last 3-4 weeks I have been outside myself, constantly relating to others instead of just doing things as they come naturally to me. This might have been driven driven by some kind of sense of loneliness, which I have mentioned earlier. Due to my new thinking, I didn't concern myself that much with the Russian. During class, I noticed that she was looking in my direction a few times. I imagined she wanted to catch my glance to know where I stood, since it's never easy to leave things off with an online conversation. I think on some level I wanted to look back to somehow settle things, but I didn't really feel a natural inclination to do so. Maybe I wanted to disregard her to have her do the reconciliation, which would explain my reaction a bit later. I was sitting thinking carefully about something and therefore not consciously looking anywhere. Once I looked out, I was looking straight into the eyes of the Russian girl. Very instinctively, in less than an instant, I looked away. I'm not actually sure whether it was just part of a movement I was already making or if it was an instinctly reaction, but I imagine that perhaps she interpretend it as the latter. After the last class, I just went to the bus, not waiting for anyone. She had gone to the bus as well. I just sat down and waited in a different spot. She got on the bus right before me and we aknowledged each other with a greeting as we got on. We both walked near the end of the bus where a few seats were vacant. At that point, I was thinking that I wanted to challenge her by asking casually if I could sit with her. When we got to the end of the bus, only one row of seats (paired together in twos) was fully vacant. I think for pretty much anyone, it would be natural to sit there, where you would have more space, instead of sitting down where someone was already sitting. If she did, I would be able to sit next to her. She didn't, and she sat next to a girl she didn't know. I remember a surge went through me. I sat down in the vacant row of seats behind her. When she exited, one stop before mine, I nodded goodbye to her with an accomodating smile, showing that even if I didn't connect with her in class I wasn't sour or angry. And she seemed to do the same back, possibly a little more fleeting.
And I still feel fine. So, maybe I've learned a lesson. And as the Italian girl has told me several times since we got to know each other; don't think!
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EPT
