EPTAnd I apologize for not linking, I am on my phone.
The why was my thread closed topic - Page 15
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Reubachi
United States40 Posts
And I apologize for not linking, I am on my phone. | ||
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Vexx
United States462 Posts
On September 08 2010 01:19 Reubachi wrote: Vexx's thread had evolved into a pretty competent discussion of game mechanics rather than balance changes, is it possible that the thread can be re opened in the interest of discussing the current infestor spells? And I apologize for not linking, I am on my phone. Thanks for the support. Jibba, I don't think allowing balance discussions would turn TL into battle.net. I think it would allow us to actually talk about starcraft instead of seeing 20 threads about "look at my stream" or "do you post gl/hf?" "how important is your rank to you?" "Morrow banned!" But you guys can act like you know everything and balance suggestions are pointless and so forth. Though, considering Plexa came into my thread to call me out and make a fool of himself, I'm not too sure even TL mods can't benefit from some more gameplay discussion. Basically, TL is just going to be a place to come read about personalities like a soap opera if we're not able to discuss the game. | ||
Chill
Calgary25988 Posts
On September 08 2010 02:14 Vexx wrote: Thanks for the support. Jibba, I don't think allowing balance discussions would turn TL into battle.net. I think it would allow us to actually talk about starcraft instead of seeing 20 threads about "look at my stream" or "do you post gl/hf?" "how important is your rank to you?" "Morrow banned!" But you guys can act like you know everything and balance suggestions are pointless and so forth. Though, considering Plexa came into my thread to call me out and make a fool of himself, I'm not too sure even TL mods can't benefit from some more gameplay discussion. Basically, TL is just going to be a place to come read about personalities like a soap opera if we're not able to discuss the game. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86434¤tpage=13#250 TL has always allowed balance threads if they stay purposeful and objective. For example comparing how one race's advantages compare to another's for the purpose of determining the strongest style of play has huge value. I would love to see more threads like that. However, comparing one race to the other for the purpose of objective some completely subjective and arbitrary "level of balance" has no balance. There's nothing to cite and the discussion has no end. It's an endless "post your opinion" thread, which has always been closed on TL. Worse yet are the "this is how I would balance SC2" threads. I think this line of moderating is clear, understandable and has been consistent. | ||
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Wolfpox
Canada164 Posts
On August 19 2010 05:45 Chill wrote: Yes, I will continue to close any balance thread in the Starcraft 2 section. Read on! Starcraft players live in a world confined by rules (the game data is made by Blizzard - we can't change it). Posting how to bend those rules (glitches, tricks) is very valuable. Posting how to maximize our abilities in that world (strategy, tactics, mechanics build orders) is also very valuable. Identifying problems with the rules (racial balance threads, unit balance threads) help us to fully understand the potential of the rules. Asking for help about the world (help threads, posting replays) is encouraged. However, posting that you wish the rules were changed has no value. Because the rules are the rules. It doesn't matter how you want them to be, because you will not get them changed. So it boils down to your own personal opinion. Which means it should be a blog ("These are my views on StarCraft II", "How I wish StarCraft II was"). Do you agree? I understand, but I don't agree simply because I think that community feedback, suggestions and ideas are noticed and considered by Blizzard, especially when an idea spreads. Even if they don't jump at a suggestion, they have said that they are paying attention, and even pointed out specific examples (such as Husky's kitten video). I agree that balance discussion is not about pragmatic advice, but it's not just wishing. Complaining and especially crystallizing opinion in a way that may become "loud" enough that Blizzard notices is worth it. But using Blogs is a fair way to allow discussion too, so i won't complain | ||
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Chill
Calgary25988 Posts
On September 08 2010 21:22 Wolfpox wrote: I understand, but I don't agree simply because I think that community feedback, suggestions and ideas are noticed and considered by Blizzard, especially when an idea spreads. Even if they don't jump at a suggestion, they have said that they are paying attention, and even pointed out specific examples (such as Husky's kitten video). I agree that balance discussion is not about pragmatic advice, but it's not just wishing. Complaining and especially crystallizing opinion in a way that may become "loud" enough that Blizzard notices is worth it. But using Blogs is a fair way to allow discussion too, so i won't complain If we allowed (as we currently do) "This strategy is dominant in PvT", then we end up with one unified voice. The solution is up to Blizzard. If we allowed (as we currently don't) "This is what I would do to Stalkers and Phoenixes and Marauders and Colossi and Chrono Boost and Scan and ...." then we end up with a convoluted and baseless mess that serves no value to the community or Blizzard. | ||
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FreezerJumps
Canada653 Posts
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TheNSWPB
Canada9 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=151259 Thank you! | ||
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Wolfpox
Canada164 Posts
Chill wrote: If we allowed (as we currently do) "This strategy is dominant in PvT", then we end up with one unified voice. The solution is up to Blizzard. If we allowed (as we currently don't) "This is what I would do to Stalkers and Phoenixes and Marauders and Colossi and Chrono Boost and Scan and ...." then we end up with a convoluted and baseless mess that serves no value to the community or Blizzard. I suppose the question is whether Blizzard knows what kind of solution to make, or if they could use suggestions to help them. I don't see them begging for ideas of course, and I think if they did acknowledge ideas they were considering taking from the community they would see a massive flood of them, so it's prudent to be quiet about it, but I do think it's possible to plant some ideas in their heads that could end up making a difference. I agree that a convoluted mess is much less likely to make a difference though, so I suppose what I would like is a prominent way to suggest ideas, theorize and be creative ourselves without tucking them away with everything else. A site feature or dedicated area. That would make it more visible and accessible, lose some of the stigma associated with it, and even if it wasn't united, it would be more about exploring ideas anyway, and seeing what sticks, or indirectly influences design as well. However, the way you put it, taking currently existing strategies and highlighting their usage in actual games, does something similar by indirectly suggesting that something changes, except without offering a "solution". So, yes I do agree with your decision to not allow balance suggestions in the normal threads. | ||
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tibberous
United States45 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
When the last post is by a mod or banling (like Jibba) it makes much more sense to PM him about this than to post here. | ||
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150573 I thought the point the op brought up was valid one at least, and there was some interesting talk about time being useful and how day9 should show it for strategical purposes. And the other side was arguing against this I suppose? In any case. Kennigits last post was particularly disappointing. "YOU JUST DONT GET IT!!!!!" Really necessary to yell at people on the internet? | ||
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 11 2010 07:06 Knickknack wrote: I'm going to ask why this thread was closed: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150573 I thought the point the op brought up was valid one at least, and there was some interesting talk about time being useful and how day9 should show it for strategical purposes. And the other side was arguing against this I suppose? In any case. Kennigits last post was particularly disappointing. "YOU JUST DONT GET IT!!!!!" Really necessary to yell at people on the internet? Do people really still reads CAPS as if people are yelling at them? I thought only grandparents still did that. D: | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On September 08 2010 01:06 Jibba wrote: They can express them to Blizzard if they so choose. What we have now is a bunch of people with no credentials throwing out hair brained ideas on how they think the game should be fixed. This isn't WoW and we're no longer in Beta. If everyone's ideas for balanced were published in the SC2 forums, it'd just be B.net forums without the memes. Blizzard isn't going to restructure the Protoss tech tree or change how Inject works, and I don't accept undefined, unsupported premises like "zerg is too hard." This is not the place to discuss how everyone would like the game to be, this is the place to discuss how the game is and how to improve at the current game we are all playing. Wow you said it perfectly. I'd like to suggest that something to this effect be put in a sticky concerning balance discussion. While there have been some very well written and intriguing balance posts by Raelcun, LaLush, and a very select few others; most of them have consist of nonsense like "zerglings should be able to jump cliffs!111". It's getting a bit tiring weeding through the nonsense in the SC2 general forum to find the good posts. Just an idea. | ||
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dvide
United Kingdom287 Posts
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32087 Posts
On September 13 2010 04:11 dvide wrote: Hi mods. Can I suggest that the topic rules be added to a featured thread or sticky? As someone who is new to Starcraft and tl.net, it was not entirely clear to me what topics are acceptable to discuss before I read this one obscure thread. It would make your moderating jobs easier too. Thanks. We dont link to the 10 commandments??? On September 08 2010 00:36 kariido wrote: Jibba, I don't agree with your reasoning for closing any and all threads related to changes or adjustments in regards to balance. People need to express their thoughts and/or opinions on the current state of the game's mechanics and units if we want this game to progress and develop further. Yes, the game is relatively new but why would it hurt to have a meaningful discussion that could influence the Blizzard dev team? Constructive criticism and brainstorming ideas is never a bad thing, especially if it may result in a positive change in the game. How many threads do we need on the same stupid topic???? Especially if it's another no-namer making the topic?? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150440 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144149 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=152533 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140724 that's just within two pages of the SC2 general section... | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
Can you post something actually useful and not condescending when someone politely asks mods about something? @ dvide You said you know it now but imo it won't hurt to be little more specific about what Hawk meant. Anyone who uses common sense can abide to 8 of TL.net Ten Commandments without actually reading them. What interests you the most here is part of the 4th one For you this means, when you create a new thread, make sure to include content worth discussing in it. A link or youtube video is not enough. An opening post should set the tone for discussion by being thoughtful and well constructed. We will not hesitate to close threads that don't have enough OP content. Wasn't a window with similar info supposed to pop up for the new users when they try to create a thread? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32087 Posts
On September 15 2010 03:25 beetlelisk wrote: Can you post something actually useful and not condescending when someone politely asks mods about something? that was actually a question to the mods there kiler | ||
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dvide
United Kingdom287 Posts
On September 15 2010 03:25 beetlelisk wrote: You said you know it now but imo it won't hurt to be little more specific about what Hawk meant. Anyone who uses common sense can abide to 8 of TL.net Ten Commandments without actually reading them. What interests you the most here is part of the 4th one I read the ten commandments but it's not nearly specific enough. Like you say, the ten commandments are all common sense stuff mostly to eliminate trolls and spam and things like that. But it's not common sense to forgo discussing hypothetical changes to the game and what the consequences would be. That much should be clear from the sheer number of people who post about it, because they're obviously not just trolling. And not all of them are even whining. "Content worth discussing" is a highly subjective thing. If you have more specific criteria as to what constitutes "content worth discussing" then it should be made clear, if only for the sake of saving the OP's time and the moderator's time. But I also feel it would help to not make new people feel unwelcome here and reluctant to post anything, all because it's not clear what is acceptable and what isn't. It just doesn't help berating people as though it was obvious when it really wasn't, and especially when others cannot see the berating and the reasons for it once the thread has been locked anyway. But I'm not going to request that you allow balance threads, because it's your forums and that's fine. All I'm suggesting is that it be made clear somewhere in plain sight what is acceptable to discuss and what isn't, for the sake of relationships and time saved. | ||
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