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Please (please) ditch the 'anti spoiler' boxes hiding the game time in replays.
Your casts are focused on strategy, yet you're obscuring one of the most valuable pieces of information available to your viewers. Your videos may rock my socks, but without being able to see the game time it's far harder than it should be to match what we're seeing with our existing knowledge of timings.
I want to be able to check the clock, go "oh his <x push> is ready to go at 6:05" rather than "if I do the exact build I'm seeing this guy do here, I'll have <y building> at 50% when he's moving out". The latter has it's advantages, but they're irrelevant to this discussion - showing the time won't stop anyone using that method.
Yes, there are ways around this, but I don't really want to hunt for the replay of every game I've just seen casted. Making one forum thread is so much easier.
And anyway, what are us (your loyal, loving [no homo] followers) gaining from this evil little box? Well, it's slightly harder to guess the length of the game. Slightly, because videos have a progress bar.
Sounds like a raw deal to me.
Obviously, this doesn't apply to casters that are doing their thing for entertainment value only. Husky, HD, etc... box. Box everywhere. Make things exciting, I'm not watching your vids to learn.
Otherwise, top stuff lads. Keep it cracking.
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I agree in principle, but if the games are actual matches instead of some ladder nonsense, a lot of viewers will also want to watch them as entertainment/sport.
Use a stopwatch or just download the actual replay (if available).
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All of these isses could be solved by having strategic box placement that shows current time but hides total time and progress bar.
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Osaka27178 Posts
Or you could just look at the supply count of the player, which is a much more accurate way of determining when things happen in game.
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I agree, I don't think I will care about spoilers unless it's a tournament game.
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maybe they should just hide the progress bar and the max. replay time and only show the current time they're at
On September 06 2010 11:08 kojinshugi wrote:
Use a stopwatch or just download the actual replay (if available).
that doesn't really work in the kind of casts he means, they rewind and slow-mo the replay all the time, pretty hard to use a stopwatch there 
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What if they just add a timer that goes up, while still hiding the progress bar.
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If you really care that much use a stopwatch or some other timer. Demanding that casters create some weird overlay with a hole in it is absolutely silly.
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I think you can just judge timings by supply and other buildings... the actual time is less important imo
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I think supply is a much better way to gauge the length of a game. It encourages you to keep your macro up so your supply count keeps going up.
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On September 06 2010 11:11 Manifesto7 wrote:
Or you could just look at the supply count of the player, which is a much more accurate way of determining when things happen in game.
Really?
Thats like...... That doesnt make sense sir. Mod.
The reason that doesnt make sense, because if your watching a cast, how do you when he gets that X supply? You need to know the times to compare it to your own builds. Yeah supply is part of that, but thats only after you know the time. You cant know, when you have 30 food, the T has X food unless you know the time you have 30 food, so you can see at that time you have 30 food, he has X food.
You cant compare or make decisions through food, unless you know the times things happen.
And yeah I completely agree with the OP. Ive PMd day9 about 3 times about this subject.
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Dear Blizzard,
Your UI is limited and needs additional features for replays.
1. Allow for Production, income and APM to be viewed simultaneously.
2. Allow for the timer to be hidden, or just allow the progress bar to be hidden.
 on't feel like posting on the Battle.net forums. but you get the idea, direct this at Blizzard the casters are simply working with what they have and need additional options imo.
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On September 06 2010 11:19 RodrigoX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 11:11 Manifesto7 wrote:
Or you could just look at the supply count of the player, which is a much more accurate way of determining when things happen in game. Really? Thats like...... That doesnt make sense sir. Mod. The reason that doesnt make sense, because if your watching a cast, how do you when he gets that X supply? You need to know the times to compare it to your own builds. Yeah supply is part of that, but thats only after you know the time. You cant know, when you have 30 food, the T has X food unless you know the time you have 30 food, so you can see at that time you have 30 food, he has X food. You cant tell anything through food, unless you know the times things happen. And yeah I completely agree with the OP. Ive PMd day9 about 3 times about this subject.
Top right corner does not show the food? Really?
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Osaka27178 Posts
On September 06 2010 11:19 RodrigoX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 11:11 Manifesto7 wrote:
Or you could just look at the supply count of the player, which is a much more accurate way of determining when things happen in game. Really? Thats like...... That doesnt make sense sir. Mod. The reason that doesnt make sense, because if your watching a cast, how do you when he gets that X supply? You need to know the times to compare it to your own builds. Yeah supply is part of that, but thats only after you know the time. You cant know, when you have 30 food, the T has X food unless you know the time you have 30 food, so you can see at that time you have 30 food, he has X food. You cant tell anything through food, unless you know the times things happen.
There is no way a regular player can get to the same spot in the same time as a pro player. So, if you think "pro player moves out at 6:30, I should too" you aren't going to be in the same game position. He will have 40 units and you will have 30. But, if you say "pro player moves out at 90 food, I will too" you will be. From that point on it is up to you to get to that 90 food as fast as possible. That is mechanics though, not strategy.
If the caster leaves the supply bar up, or if he clicks on a player's unit, you can see the food. It is right there in the top corner, you can't miss it. -(Aassuming he is in a replay, if he isn't then this whole thread is moot anyway).
And yeah I completely agree with the OP. Ive PMd day9 about 3 times about this subject.
Yeah I bet he loves that.
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What Day 9 does, at least in my eyes, is discuss strategy on a high level instead of on a specific, detail-oriented level. Don't get me wrong, he's great at pin-pointing subtleties and especially connections between events that transpire in game, but since he speaks to a large audience of various skill levels, he doesn't walk you through the potentially rigid nitty gritty of builds.
Some viewers are veterans at executing build orders crisply, some don't know build orders, some don't even know what they are. His education seems to be aimed at discussing the "why?" behind specific elements in play, not every "what?"
Even in the age before SC2, his cast was an entirely different resource from, say, well crafted [G] threads (Stylish's VODs, 4 gate 2 archon guide, 5 hatch hydra muta guide), which detailed not only supply counts and times, but scouting tips, goals at different game stages, adaptations, etc.
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no way- I don't wanna get spoilered!
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Day9 doesn't want you to know the time something comes, but he wants you to be able to know IN GAME when you should do something, unless you have a 3rd party timer in your game you wont know your exact time in game anyways. So it's better to go off of supply counts, army size, tech structures and upgrades to know when something should happen. You should know "Oh speed just finished upgrading, it's time to attack this terran because he wont be able to defend it easily" and stuff like that.
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You can't see game time while you are playing an actual game, so I don't see how it's such a useful piece of information.
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On September 06 2010 11:19 RodrigoX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 11:11 Manifesto7 wrote:
Or you could just look at the supply count of the player, which is a much more accurate way of determining when things happen in game. Really? Thats like...... That doesnt make sense sir. Mod. The reason that doesnt make sense, because if your watching a cast, how do you when he gets that X supply?
Because it's mathematically impossible to get X supply before Y seconds depending on the build.
It doesn't matter whether he pushes at 4 minutes 32 seconds. It matters that he builds structures A and B in a specific order and then makes units out of them. How many units you can make is constrained by supply and income, not some arbitrary amount of time.
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Day9 is all about the high level strategy/thought processes that players go through, not specific builds. If you want to lift specific builds from something, get a replay pack.
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EPT
