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US Politics Feedback Thread - Page 166

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Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
July 17 2018 14:13 GMT
#3301
On July 17 2018 23:09 farvacola wrote:
Have folks been abusing the threadban process? Not sure if I've seen that in action.

I'm the only mod that uses thread bans.
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21666 Posts
July 17 2018 14:13 GMT
#3302
On July 17 2018 23:09 farvacola wrote:
Have folks been abusing the threadban process? Not sure if I've seen that in action.
Kickboxer was banned from the US pol threat and so he went and ranted in the EU thread about it. Which got him a swift perma-ban.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 14:18:29
July 17 2018 14:18 GMT
#3303
Hmm, I suppose that makes sense. For what it's worth, I think your threadban scheme is a good idea, Seeker.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 17 2018 14:54 GMT
#3304
On July 17 2018 22:29 Seeker wrote:
Mods are considering enacting the following procedure:

- Site-wide ban for any users who received a mod action from posting in the USPMT if their posting history shows that all or the majority of their posts are in the USPMT.
- Thread ban for any users who received a mod action from posting in the USPMT if their posting history shows that they also contribute to the TL community outside of the USPMT.

Thoughts?

how do you measure "contribution to the community outside of uspmt"
someone could have few posts outside of it; but those could be very good posts.
making that adjudication would require extra analysis on your part, or miss the case above if you don't do that analysis.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 15:02:30
July 17 2018 15:00 GMT
#3305
On July 17 2018 22:29 Seeker wrote:
Mods are considering enacting the following procedure:

- Site-wide ban for any users who received a mod action from posting in the USPMT if their posting history shows that all or the majority of their posts are in the USPMT.
- Thread ban for any users who received a mod action from posting in the USPMT if their posting history shows that they also contribute to the TL community outside of the USPMT.

Thoughts?

Does it make any real practical difference? Only one data point seems to exist to even make this come up, a rare and not particularly meaningful one at that.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 15:07:33
July 17 2018 15:02 GMT
#3306
seeker, as a point of clarification: when you say looking at thier "posting history", do you mean their overall history of posts in general? or the moderation history of their posts specifically?

depending on your answer; it may be that a simpler metric to use would be "is most of their mod history abotu their actions in the us pol thread"
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 17 2018 15:04 GMT
#3307
On July 17 2018 22:51 Seeker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2018 22:46 xDaunt wrote:
On July 17 2018 22:29 Seeker wrote:
Mods are considering enacting the following procedure:

- Site-wide ban for any users who received a mod action from posting in the USPMT if their posting history shows that all or the majority of their posts are in the USPMT.
- Thread ban for any users who received a mod action from posting in the USPMT if their posting history shows that they also contribute to the TL community outside of the USPMT.

Thoughts?

How is that different from what you’re doing now?

I'm trying to be more transparent about our thought process. You mentioned that you wanted mods to be honest and fair. Yes, I've been doing that for some time now, but at least now we can openly discuss it together as a community.

It's appreciated. That said, to my knowledge, the complaint regarding transparency and fairness has almost always concerned the decision of whether a post is actionable, not the severity of the action applied. Whatever y'all decide is fine by me as long as it's evenly applied.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 17 2018 15:16 GMT
#3308
I think thread bans are fine for folks that only break the rules of the thread itself. Kickboxer was an anomaly and was going to go all Leeroy Jenkins no matter how he was moderated.

I think more transparency is good as well. But posters in this thread need to be specific with their complaints as well. There is way to much passive aggressive insinuations of bias without linking the evidence(xdaunts rencent complaint being the rare exception). If someone reports a post and it doesn’t get a response after 24 hours, ask why. Otherwise is it sometimes hard to tell what the hell people are complaining about.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 17 2018 15:25 GMT
#3309
On July 17 2018 19:01 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 17 2018 10:15 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2018 08:08 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I get ganged up on all the time. For instance one poster here does so at every possible instance to the extent that I simply don't read his posts anymore. Yet I manage to not do an xdaunt and play a victimisation card. It can be difficult admittedly.

Also, I don't get why xdaunt thinks my posting is unacceptable. What exactly is unacceptable? Care to give an example? Preferably one that isn't from the old pol thread? You frequently write that I should be banned under the rule, without specifying what rule. So here is another chance to be specific. That you view my "rash of posting" as impudence that I would argue against you and point out the gaping holes in what you write, does not my posting unacceptable make.


yeah i can tell you whats unacceptable. its the most pitiful, slow-witted form of goal-post shifting, born of your seeming inability to discern a particular argumentative strand. you fired back a bunch of bullshit when xdaunt rightly pointed out that "foe" meant "economic/trade foe" because he didnt include some inane statements trump made about unemployment and his family's immigration history? that stuff is totally irrelevant to the point in dispute (that trump was casually throwing around bellicose language and calling the EU our military "foe") and appears to be a purely reflexive attack on your part in response to a hashtag. the execrable part is that your post was straight up embarrassingly off target to the point that your conclusions and accusatory capstone makes me question your reading comprehension. either that or you are incapable of telling the difference between

"trump thinks the EU is our foe. its unclear how he means that, foe usually means strategic and military enemy"

and

"trump thinks the eu is taking advantage of us in trade. what an idiot"

simply because both are stupid, despite being stupid in different ways. the most important and egregious folly in my view, however, is in your even bothering to look for logical inconsistencies or any meaning at all in anything trump says and then shitting up the thread with it. you fundamentally misunderstand trump's particular idiocy and you only redouble his bullshit with, and i want to emphasize the adjective here, stupid attacks on xdaunt

Pitiful, slow-witted form of goal-post shifting is it? I've repeatedly written the same 2 points:

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 03:12 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
xdaunt claims to put comment in context, by editing out the actual context. Types #fakenews at the end of it.

But, ok, I'll just say it straight. You, in an attempt to discredit a link, edited a straight quote, and presented it as a quote, and added #fakenews to the end of it. Presenting your own falsehood as truth.

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 03:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You don't get to present that what you have written is the entirety of what was said by cutting out bits and then add #fakenews to the end of your post.

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 05:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To me the issue of presenting a quote, claiming to depicting the entirety of what was said, and cutting parts in between what was quoted out, and adding #fakenews

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 05:25 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Is that your genuine opinion? Ok let us all get banned.

You for #fakenews
I for #xdauntisfakenews

Show nested quote +
On July 17 2018 02:13 Dangermousecatdog wrote:I never said he added anything, so yes, you are correct about that, pat yourself on the back. As I have repeatedly written, xdaunt portrayed that he wrote the entirety, but xdaunt in actuality cut out parts of an available transcript, thus not showing the what a bone crushing nonsense Trump is. I normally wouldn't bother pointing that out, but adding #fakenews was just the final straw that roused me to point it out due to the sheer gall of it.



Where is the goal-post shifting here? I have been banging the same point, that

1) xdaunt presenting a quote, claiming to depicting the entirety of what was said, but in actuality cut out parts to make Trump not look like a total moron, thus presenting his own personal context

2) #fakenews used Trump style

I've banging the same bloody point, because, you IGNE, Deepelmblue, and the rest of the usual suspects, are shifting the goal posts, around dogpiling on me, to the point where I simply have to repeat myself, because you guys as a group have decided to consistently insulted and accuse me of misintepreting your posts. Well I am tired of it, which is why I was certain to remain at the same bloody points.

At no point did I write that xdaunt " or "add anything", that was simply DeepElemBlues making shit up.

At no point did I even type anything about foe/economic foe/military foe, that's you making shit up, your own "pitiful, slow-witted form of goal-post shifting, born of your seeming inability to discern a particular argumentative strand" (your words IgnE)

So at this point I'm pretty fed up. Even total the point of anally repeating myself, as if I am unable to change the point of argumentation, when it as a result of defending myself against totally random arguments I have not said, the usual suspects, the band of brothers, the same shitposting dogpilers who gang up on my still manage to make shit up about my misinterpretation.

Well, let me tell you IgnE, that you have an unacceptable, pitiful, slow-witted form of goal-post shifting, born of your seeming inability to discern a particular argumentative strand, born of your desire and seeking of opportunity to dogpile on me over and over again, that this time, you have shown to everyone on the forum that you are capable of accusing someone of the very mistep that you are making yourself, that you cannot discern the argument, that even though there are 2 very simple points are am making, one of misrepresentation, and other of #fakenews, you still, in your complete and blind fevour to discredit me, still managed to make shit up.


Edit: Ahhhh, shit, I think I just played a victimisation card that I said I wouldn't be doing.


I know what you've been arguing, and I don't care that it's been the "same" thing over and over. But it's funny you should say that "At no point did I even type anything about foe/economic foe/military foe," because that's precisely my point. That's the goal-post shifting. A question from poster A answered by poster B in a reasonable if wry manner, followed by an hysterical attack by poster C over some other point not in dispute.

Great, you've been very consistent in your aggressive stupidity on this front. I agree.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 17:25:46
July 17 2018 17:17 GMT
#3310
Oh, I get it now. You are so partisan that you literally can't see past your own political polarisation. There's no reason for me to give a damn about your goalpost. Either that or you don't care.

The reason why I don't mention foe/economic foe/military foe, is because I don't care about it, not because I am shifting the goalpost, but because, what I take offense to is:

1) claiming to present an entirety of what was said, but cutting parts out in between without detailing it so
2) #fakenews

Those are the two goalposts I am interested in. It really is that simple. #fakenews is the one I am mostly interested in. You can see this in the posts I have written.

Everybody else but you and the usual band of brothers, who are constantly haranguing me, understood this.



BTW, I originally never intended to reply to xdaunt till I saw that xdaunt posted #fakenews, but I am pretty happy I directed my attention, because it nipped #fakenews right in the bud.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
July 17 2018 17:25 GMT
#3311
On July 18 2018 02:17 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Oh, I get it now. You are so partisan that you literally can't see past your own political polarisation. There's no reason for me to give a damn about your goalpost. Either that or you don't care.

The reason why I don't mention foe/economic foe/military foe, is because I don't care about it, not because I am shifting the goalpost, but because, what I take offense to is:

1) claiming to present an entirety of what was said, but cutting parts out in between without detailing it so
2) #fakenews

Those are the two goalposts I am interested in. It really is that simple. #fakenews is the one I am mostly interested in. You can see this in the posts I have written.

Everybody else but you and the usual band of brothers, who are constantly haranguing me, understood this.



BTW, I originally never intended to reply to xdaunt till I saw that xdaunt posted #fakenews, but I am pretty happy I directed my attention, because it nipped #fakenews right in the bud.


Partisan?

What party are you putting IgnE into? And how does that explain his point about interactions with xDaunt?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 17:32:44
July 17 2018 17:28 GMT
#3312
I can't vote for US parties so I support neither. He emphasised in bold, that his point is that I didn't care for either side of the argument. Whatever it is, the sheer gall to even type that his point is that he doesn't care for my intentions, when he says I have shifted the goalposts, only that he only cares in his aim to miscontrue mine.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
July 17 2018 17:43 GMT
#3313
On July 18 2018 02:28 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I can't vote for US parties so I support neither. He emphasised in bold, that his point is that I didn't care for either side of the argument. Whatever it is, the sheer gall to even type that his point is that he doesn't care for my intentions, when he says I have shifted the goalposts, only that he only cares in his aim to miscontrue mine.


lol so partisan you don't know what party he's in...

It seems this goes back to beyond this recent interaction so I'm in the dark there, but as is usually the case with most posters, you're angry because you don't understand what IgnE is saying.

I don't actually care about this particular argument beyond the ongoing (and really the only one I'd like to see mods [read: Seeker] focus on) problem of people not understanding or demonstrating that understanding of the posts they are angrily responding to.

It's not an easy problem to fix, but it's unquestionably (in my mind at least) the single biggest problem and the source of most problems in the thread.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 17 2018 18:10 GMT
#3314
To be fair, IgnE isn’t that forthcoming with his political leanings and fond of a Socratic posting style. You would have to pay pretty close attention to catch his political views.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 18:14:25
July 17 2018 18:14 GMT
#3315
On July 18 2018 02:17 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Oh, I get it now. You are so partisan that you literally can't see past your own political polarisation. There's no reason for me to give a damn about your goalpost. Either that or you don't care.

The reason why I don't mention foe/economic foe/military foe, is because I don't care about it, not because I am shifting the goalpost, but because, what I take offense to is:

1) claiming to present an entirety of what was said, but cutting parts out in between without detailing it so
2) #fakenews

Those are the two goalposts I am interested in. It really is that simple. #fakenews is the one I am mostly interested in. You can see this in the posts I have written.

Everybody else but you and the usual band of brothers, who are constantly haranguing me, understood this.



BTW, I originally never intended to reply to xdaunt till I saw that xdaunt posted #fakenews, but I am pretty happy I directed my attention, because it nipped #fakenews right in the bud.

You've managed to reflexively blame partisan blindness and polarization on the only guy willing to read your posts, understand their arguments, and dissect them.

It will just lead to less people reading and responding. You're teaching people that understanding and engagement directed at your posts will be rewarded with additional hysteria and insults.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 17 2018 18:25 GMT
#3316
On July 18 2018 03:10 Plansix wrote:
To be fair, IgnE isn’t that forthcoming with his political leanings and fond of a Socratic posting style. You would have to pay pretty close attention to catch his political views.

The real confusion probably comes from the fact that he delights in screwing with people on the left.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 17 2018 18:34 GMT
#3317
IgnE is that perfect 80-20 blend of mean-spiritedness and wit that makes you hate his guts while still being interested enough in what he has to say to follow along.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 18:48:14
July 17 2018 18:47 GMT
#3318
Nah, IgnE isn't mean-spirited. Far from it. He just challenges people on their bullshit. He tends to be pretty nice about it.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 19:26:13
July 17 2018 19:19 GMT
#3319
Ok, ok, band of brothers, you can circle jerk together over whether or not my intention is to shift the goal posts over arguing over foe/economic foe/military foe/whatever.

In fact I'll be gracious and announce open season, that you can discuss what are my true intentions in absentia, and I'll entirely resist the urge to reply whatsoever for 5 days, so you can get it out of your system.

Meanwhile I'll just remain happy that writing #fakenews is essentially banned.

GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23221 Posts
July 17 2018 19:24 GMT
#3320
On July 18 2018 04:19 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Ok, ok, band of brothers, you can circle jerk together over whether or not my intention is to shift the goal posts over arguing over foe/economic foe/military foe/whatever.

In fact I'll be gracious and announce open season, that you can discuss what are my true intentions in absentia, and I'll entirely resist the urge to reply whatsoever for 5 days, so you can get it out of your system.

Meanwhile I'll just remain happy that writing #fakenews is essentially banned.



Much obliged your grace. To greener pastures gentlemen.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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