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On July 17 2018 05:58 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki
In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."
To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. Give me your definition of a "honest and fair" moderator then.
Hell, I dunno. Like pornography, I'll know it when I see it. Regardless, the status quo currently is not even close to being honest and fair. The mods very clearly don't evenly apply the rules. And when asked about it directly, you don't give open and honest answers. Are you really going to tell me that DMCD's rash of posting is acceptable under TL standards? Everybody knows that you have banned others for far less. Or why don't you start by explaining why you stepped in to get people to leave GH alone a few days ago yet didn't do it for me when I was taking it worse?
I'm not even demanding strict honesty and fairness. That's clearly a pipe dream. However, I and others would at least like to see a pretense of honesty and fairness.
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On July 17 2018 06:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:58 Seeker wrote:On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki[quote] To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. Give me your definition of a "honest and fair" moderator then. Hell, I dunno. Like pornography, I'll know it when I see it. Regardless, the status quo currently is not even close to being honest and fair. The mods very clearly don't evenly apply the rules. And when asked about it directly, you don't give open and honest answers. Are you really going to tell me that DMCD's rash of posting is acceptable under TL standards? Everybody knows that you have banned others for far less. Or why don't you start by explaining why you stepped in to get people to leave GH alone a few days ago yet didn't do it for me when I was taking it worse? I'm not even demanding strict honesty and fairness. That's clearly a pipe dream. However, I and others would at least like to see a pretense of honesty and fairness.
For the record, I never wanted that.
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On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki
In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."
To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator.
The mods do fine.
Disagreements are going to happen in a politics thread, it would be great if the posters could stay calm and respectful when this happens. If someone gets personal with you there is no reason to do the same and start crapping the thread up.
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On July 17 2018 06:07 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki
In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."
To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. The mods do fine. Disagreements are going to happen in a politics thread, it would be great if the posters could stay calm and respectful when this happens. If someone gets personal with you there is no reason to do the same and start crapping the thread up.
Yeah? Let's see how long your patience lasts when half a dozen imbeciles start defaming you with absolutely idiotic stuff.
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On July 17 2018 06:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:07 Aveng3r wrote:On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki[quote] To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. The mods do fine. Disagreements are going to happen in a politics thread, it would be great if the posters could stay calm and respectful when this happens. If someone gets personal with you there is no reason to do the same and start crapping the thread up. Yeah? Let's see how long your patience lasts when half a dozen imbeciles start defaming you with absolutely idiotic stuff.
Try meditation
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readin gsome people I normally ignore to track some of the stuff here.
doesn't seem like a very actionable proposal for improving moderation.
everyone agrees with the need for "honest and fair" moderation. but what that means can vary wildly by person; so it's simply not a helpful idea nor does it provide any clarity.
more actionable would be to say, point to a specific person and say "I think that person would be such a moderator"
or to request some other systems be put in place to better resolve the matters; or request ideas for such a system so that you could then endorse one of them.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
On July 17 2018 06:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:58 Seeker wrote:On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki[quote] To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. Give me your definition of a "honest and fair" moderator then. Hell, I dunno. Like pornography, I'll know it when I see it. Regardless, the status quo currently is not even close to being honest and fair. The mods very clearly don't evenly apply the rules. And when asked about it directly, you don't give open and honest answers. Are you really going to tell me that DMCD's rash of posting is acceptable under TL standards? Everybody knows that you have banned others for far less. Or why don't you start by explaining why you stepped in to get people to leave GH alone a few days ago yet didn't do it for me when I was taking it worse? I'm not even demanding strict honesty and fairness. That's clearly a pipe dream. However, I and others would at least like to see a pretense of honesty and fairness.
When you post, you antagonize other people. You're not a civil/nice poster. People will respond to hostility with hostility. I don't know what you expect me to do about that.
As for the GH thing, I wanted people to get back on track more so than I wanted people to stop picking on him. GH has made it clear to me several times already that he doesn't like my moderating style and has openly complained about TL moderation many times. I wasn't trying to do him any favors because he doesn't deserve them.
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On July 17 2018 06:47 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 06:04 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:58 Seeker wrote:On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said?
[quote]
The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. Give me your definition of a "honest and fair" moderator then. Hell, I dunno. Like pornography, I'll know it when I see it. Regardless, the status quo currently is not even close to being honest and fair. The mods very clearly don't evenly apply the rules. And when asked about it directly, you don't give open and honest answers. Are you really going to tell me that DMCD's rash of posting is acceptable under TL standards? Everybody knows that you have banned others for far less. Or why don't you start by explaining why you stepped in to get people to leave GH alone a few days ago yet didn't do it for me when I was taking it worse? I'm not even demanding strict honesty and fairness. That's clearly a pipe dream. However, I and others would at least like to see a pretense of honesty and fairness. When you post, you antagonize other people. You're not a civil/nice poster. People will respond to hostility with hostility. I don't know what you expect me to do about that.
This is lazy, and you know it. I get along fine with plenty of posters and am plenty cordial to them. That's not even debatable.
And what are you really saying? xDaunt can be an asshole (notwithstanding the fact that he doesn't violate thread rules) so we're not going to enforce the rules against anyone who attacks him with ad hominems or otherwise violates thread rules? That's your idea of good moderation?
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The solution is to stop being an asshole. Then you don’t have the problem.
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On July 17 2018 07:02 Plansix wrote:
The solution is to stop being an asshole. Then you don’t have the problem.
Yeah, you're missing the point. I generally am not an asshole, and people still take shots at me.
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On July 17 2018 07:07 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 07:02 Plansix wrote:
The solution is to stop being an asshole. Then you don’t have the problem. Yeah, you're missing the point. I generally am not an asshole, and people still take shots at me.
No culpability on your end at all? You're entirely the victim of aggressive posting being directed at you?
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On July 17 2018 07:20 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 07:07 xDaunt wrote:On July 17 2018 07:02 Plansix wrote:
The solution is to stop being an asshole. Then you don’t have the problem. Yeah, you're missing the point. I generally am not an asshole, and people still take shots at me. No culpability on your end at all? You're entirely the victim of aggressive posting being directed at you?
This is exactly what hes complaining about. He saying hes not culpable all the time and hes not entirely a victim. But posts like yours comes up every time he ever posts and insists on things like this. Cue a dozen posts coming in the same thread insisting on a narrative that never happened and constantly bashing on him for things he doesn't do.
Seeker wanted people to get back on track because they were only bashing GH but the flip side doesn't matter when the thread is only bashing Xdaunt. bashing xdaunt is an accepted on track conversation so much that the mods don't even notice when it happens for the dozenth time.
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Well I can certainly understand how that is a frustrating situation, however I have to believe that any time a poster is "getting ganged up on" they do themselves no favors by retaliating with similar attacks/insults/whatever. I think it creates a cycle that craps up the thread and frustrates the mods such that they dont care to deal with it for the dozenth time
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It’s also isn’t new. Dauntless isn’t a dick all the time. But I’m sure he has been a dick to everyone in that thread at least once or twice. On a long enough time like everyone got a little tired of it.
That doesn’t justify personal attacks for no reason. But some of the animosity has been building for a while.
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United Kingdom10011 Posts
On July 17 2018 07:58 Plansix wrote:
It’s also isn’t new. Dauntless isn’t a dick all the time. But I’m sure he has been a dick to everyone in that thread at least once or twice. On a long enough time like everyone got a little tired of it.
That doesn’t justify personal attacks for no reason. But some of the animosity has been building for a while.
I don't think he's any more guilty of being a dick than most people in the thread, but his political opinions are also seen as 'being a dick' because they are so horrible.
I dunno what the mods are supposed to do with that really.
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I get ganged up on all the time. For instance one poster here does so at every possible instance to the extent that I simply don't read his posts anymore. Yet I manage to not do an xdaunt and play a victimisation card. It can be difficult admittedly.
Also, I don't get why xdaunt thinks my posting is unacceptable. What exactly is unacceptable? Care to give an example? Preferably one that isn't from the old pol thread? You frequently write that I should be banned under the rule, without specifying what rule. So here is another chance to be specific. That you view my "rash of posting" as impudence that I would argue against you and point out the gaping holes in what you write, does not my posting unacceptable make.
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On July 17 2018 05:57 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2018 05:38 Aveng3r wrote:On July 16 2018 09:15 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:54 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:47 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 08:36 Plansix wrote:On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.
there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about. On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun! CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki
In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."
To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast. Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said? "Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.
"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added. The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!” You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight. I attacked the post (which was atrocious), not the poster. The posts are always fair game. If someone feels stupid after I point out their post is stupid, that's on them, and perhaps they should put a little more effort into their posts. People are free to take issue with my posts. What I'm objecting to are the personal attacks. You did both. You are agressive and condescending as a way to bolster your point of view. And your dropped fakenews at the end like as asshole. You do not approach these arguments with the respect you demand from other forum members. You don’t insult people directly, but you post at them like you think they are a bitch. I only post aggressively against people who deserve it. Ciaus_dronu deserves it because he has a history of making posts like this one:On July 14 2018 05:36 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Guys, secret: you aren't going to get anything out of xDoublespeak. He doesn't care that he's unashamedly thrown out white supremacist nonsense. He is probably well aware that his sources are intimately involved in that culture, it would be bloody hard to not be.
It's quite an accurate reflection of the attitudes of the GOP in politics in our very own poster. Truth, history, responsibility are all to be discarded when convenient, ignored until they become a weapon against the opponent.
This is like arguing with a fox about how best to guard the hens.
On a more general note, something that very much scares me about the political future of the west is increasing political involvement and mobilization of the right fringe. Many online communities have been cesspools in years past, but I never noticed such a strong, political presence. It feels like a newer phenomenon, and I worry about the damage it can do before society adapts. The mods failed to action it, of course. Regardless, ridiculing posts has always been acceptable. The personal insults are not. If people don't want me ridiculing their posts, then they have two choices: 1) post better such that I don't have the opportunity to ridicule them, or 2) stop picking fights with me. There's a reason why I get along well with many leftist posters. They aren't constantly outright dicks to me. try posting nicely to people instead so that the thread doesn't suffer as a result I've been posting in these threads for the better part of ten years. I've tried being nice. It doesn't work. I've tried appealing to the mods. That doesn't work, either. In fact, as is evidenced by their failure to even respond to me in here, they have been demonstrably useless. Plansix noted that the posts that I singled out weren't reported. My reports are ignored. In fact, back when tofu was in charge of moderating the thread, there were occasions when he had to reverse prior mods who ignored my reports. Danglars mentioned that we need a right-leaning moderator. I don't think that that is really necessary. We just need an honest and fair moderator. Seeker appears cool, collected, and reasonable and proceeds to call balls and strikes like a blind umpire. My only explanation is that viewpoint clouds his perception, with a side of lopsided population lib shitposters. One sides’ antagonism is acceptable vitriol and mainly unactioned, the other side is intolerable vitriol and actioned. Well, it’s gotta be a form of blindness, or in Seeker’s terminology, an inability to call out one side on its own bullshit. I think a balancing moderator on the other side that doesn’t play the same favorites as Seeker does is the solution. Sometimes all a guy needs is a contrasting opinion (I’m expecting in mod forums) to highlight all the bullshit that slips his gaze.
Maybe—with roles reversed—he’d favor conservative takes in a conservative forum with a small population of liberals. The libs would whine about unequal treatment, and he’d maintain his innocence and honest evaluation. I’ve got no clue on that one. It could be the case.
The greater moderation action shown in the thread is very biased. I favor a return to limited moderation if these last few months of medium to heavy moderation is TeamLiquid’s best shot at fair moderation. It’s obviously not working out unless the goal is echo chamber and two tiers of posting standards. Hire on a Trump voter or a conservative of any stripe if you want to make the thread great again.
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We don't even need all that. The same issue that the thread had at the start is the same issue we're talking about now. What the heck are the mods expecting of us? Just a clear communication on standards and practices followed by ,at the very least perceived, consistent applications of those standards. We ignored the threads stated rules in the old thread quite easily because it was communicated that it was an almost no mans land of moderation. Now in the new thread we get sporadic and chaotic proclamations from the congress of olympia on whats okay and whats not.
If we're suppose to only attack the post and not the poster that would be a very easy standard to adhere to and enforce.
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I have to have one of the worst moderation histories among the people discussing this topic and I have somehow managed to avoid moderation since the new thread started. I do not believe it is an issue of unfair moderation at all, more that a few posters have refused to change their posting habits.
And if people want better moderation, press the report button. Don’t use this thread as a public substitute for reporting posts. A reasonable number of my reports are addressed, so they do get looked at.
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On July 17 2018 09:53 Plansix wrote:
I have to have one of the worst moderation histories among the people discussing this topic and I have somehow managed to avoid moderation since the new thread started.
And if people want better moderation, press the report button. Don’t use this thread as a public substitute for reporting posts. A reasonable number of my reports are addressed, so they do get looked at.
Would just like to point out that not everyone has a report button. I think previously banned people never gets it back again (at least that's what happened to me, way back).
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EPT
