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zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-14 01:48:43
July 14 2018 01:34 GMT
#3221
On July 14 2018 10:32 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2018 10:24 zlefin wrote:
On July 14 2018 10:22 Sermokala wrote:
You kidding? We're almost into election season. This is when the thread actually gets good and you can enjoy posting in it again.

I can't say I've observed it being better/worse in election season. what would make it better?

We get to talk about relevent topics that don't taint your soul.

but we can do that all the time; mostly people just don't want to talk about policy though.
no idea what the soul taint point is about (and why it wouldn't apply just as much during election season at any rate)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23218 Posts
July 15 2018 08:05 GMT
#3222
On July 13 2018 21:36 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
#59984 the post that got GH banned.


You know I think it was a bit of a misunderstanding?

His post said that those after it would get banned. So I thought I caught seeker and tofu on a technicality (just to be petty lol) I then saw the small print and changed my PM to consider that. I thought you guys could use a break anyway though so I just rode it out.

Ironically you guys managed to talk about both racism and 2016 without me (or LL).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 15 2018 17:27 GMT
#3223
On July 16 2018 01:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:
On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun!

CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki


In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."


To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast.

Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said?

"Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.

"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added.


The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews

Not really. Adding in fake trade / NATO talk doesn't make it better.
#xDauntisfakenews

So honest question to the mods. How many people are you going to let just tee off on me? There have been several such posts made over the past few days. Not one has been actioned. I just pulled this one as the latest example. Under what possible construction of the thread rules is this okay?
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 18:15:16
July 15 2018 18:12 GMT
#3224
On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:
The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews

xdaunt claims to put comment in context, by editing out the actual context. Types #fakenews at the end of it.

xdaunt acts outraged, instead of relieved, that people are parodying him for #fakenews when propagating a false context by deleting sections of the quoted link, instead of just calling him out for it.

But, ok, I'll just say it straight. You, in an attempt to discredit a link, edited a straight quote, and presented it as a quote, and added #fakenews to the end of it. Presenting your own falsehood as truth.

Trump #fakenews is a cancer on the truthful reporting of the world and you are absolutely unbelievable for attempting to propagate that very same cretinous style, whilst bringing attention to yourself that you are doing just that.

let me go further

#xdauntisfakenews butpretendsheisnot and pretendsthatotherpeoplearefakenews
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 15 2018 18:22 GMT
#3225
this seems like something that should be addressed/adjudicated rather than left to fester.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 15 2018 18:30 GMT
#3226
On July 16 2018 03:22 zlefin wrote:
this seems like something that should be addressed/adjudicated rather than left to fester.

Let's just say that there's not a lot of gray area on this one. Have at it mods.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 18:58:38
July 15 2018 18:31 GMT
#3227
Indeed. I too would also like to ask a honest question to seeker / the mods, on their policy on fakenews, outrageous misrepresentation of quotes, and general denial of quotes on what has been written before. The sheer gall to add #fakenews at the end of your post when you claim that you are posting the entirety of what was said, and then to complain when someone parodies your usage of #fakenews instead of just being called out for it is quite unbelievable.



Imagine...I wrote this


Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said?

"Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.

Black unemployment is the lowest level in history. Hispanic unemployment the lowest level in history, Jeff. Women unemployment lowest in 66 years. Our numbers are great. Our GDP numbers are far greater than what they thought.

I mean my mother was Scotland, my father was Germany. ," he added.

The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews



Looks bad right? In fact I did the same thing as xdaunt. You don't get to present that what you have written is the entirety of what was said by cutting out bits and then add #fakenews to the end of your post.



Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
July 15 2018 19:52 GMT
#3228
On July 16 2018 02:27 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 01:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:
On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun!

CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki


In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."


To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast.

Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said?

"Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.

"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added.


The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews

Not really. Adding in fake trade / NATO talk doesn't make it better.
#xDauntisfakenews

So honest question to the mods. How many people are you going to let just tee off on me? There have been several such posts made over the past few days. Not one has been actioned. I just pulled this one as the latest example. Under what possible construction of the thread rules is this okay?

The mods need an American-right moderator desperately, or a return to the hands-off attitude that characterized the previous thread.

This kind of double standard exists because posts fitting with left-leaning ideology don’t appear to be so bad (they have a point, don’t they? Even if snarkily written.) whereas ones completing with rightward viewpoints aren’t (well it’s wrong AND slightly acidic language!).

Mods? Any chance for honest self reflection and re-evaluation?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9617 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 21:02:40
July 15 2018 20:08 GMT
#3229
never mind i don’t have any stake in this.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
July 15 2018 20:11 GMT
#3230
And Danglars, what would be your definition of an American-right?

What exactly are these rightward viewpoints that are wrong AND slightly acidic language?

To me the issue of presenting a quote, claiming to depicting the entirety of what was said, and cutting parts in between what was quoted out, and adding #fakenews is neither a right or left issue. xdaunt thinks it's a grey area, and I think it is clear cut, but at no point did either of us claim that it was a political line.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23218 Posts
July 15 2018 20:14 GMT
#3231
What would the American right mod do? Surely it wouldn't be protecting right wing snowflakes from getting their feels hurt. Presumably argue for more freedom to retaliate?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 15 2018 20:21 GMT
#3232
I don't even see what the gray area is with Jonny's and dangermousecatdog's posts. Seeker threatened to ban people for less when commenting on GH's bolshevism just a few days ago. The rule very clearly is address the point, not the poster. Needless to say, there have been several posts about me. I've overlooked and ignored them until now. I'm just going to hazard a guess that I'm not going to be allowed to respond in kind. So mods, do your job.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 20:40:11
July 15 2018 20:25 GMT
#3233
Is that your genuine opinion? Ok let us all get banned.

You for #fakenews
I for #xdauntisfakenews

Edit: this is purely hypothetical. I am not actually martyring.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 20:45:19
July 15 2018 20:32 GMT
#3234
Just to be clear I am refering to

5. Be evocative, not mean.
Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be.


In that I am not bashing but I am "reveal the error in your opposition's ways". I actually have no idea what rule xdaunt is refering to as he did not specify in his post, but I am assuming this one.
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 22:13:49
July 15 2018 22:11 GMT
#3235
Full quote of Trump referring to the EU as a "foe"

GLOR: Who is your biggest competitor, your biggest foe globally right now?

TRUMP: Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade.

Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is a foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly. They're a foe. But that doesn't mean they're bad. It doesn't mean anything.

It means that they're competitors. They want to do well, and we want to do well. And we're starting to do well. You see what's going on. We have the best employment numbers probably that we have ever had. Black unemployment is the lowest level in history, Hispanic unemployment the lowest level in history, Jeff, women unemployment lowest in 66 years.

Our numbers are great. Our GDP numbers are far greater than what they thought.

GLOR: A lot of people might be surprised to hear you list the E.U. as a foe before China and Russia.

TRUMP: No, I look at them all.

Look, E.U. is very difficult, I want to tell you. Maybe the thing that's most difficult -- don't forget, both of my parents were born in E.U. sectors, OK? I mean, my mother was Scotland. My father was Germany.

And, you know, I love those countries. I respect the leaders of those countries.

But, in a trade sense, they have really taken advantage of us, and many of those countries are in NATO. And they weren't paying their bills. And, you know I, as an example, have a big problem with Germany, because Germany made a pipeline deal with Russia, where they're going to be paying Russia billions and billions of dollars a year for energy.

And I say that's not good. That's not fair. You're supposed to be fighting for someone, and then that someone gives billions of dollars to the one that you're guarding against?

I think it's ridiculous. So, I let that be also known this time.

And I'll tell you what. There is a lot of anger at the fact that Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars. There's a lot of anger. I also think it's a very bad thing for Germany, because it's like, what are they, waving a white flag?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-face-the-nation-july-15-2018/

xdaunt didn't add anything or fake anything. the full quote makes it even more clear xdaunt's characterization is correct and those disagreeing with him are pushing a narrative that doesn't match the facts in question

you lied about him and are continuing to do so partially in order to bash him

seems to be exactly the kind of thing that is characterized as unacceptably caustic and, to quote seeker when recently thread-banning danglars, "bullshit" when 'right-wingers' but not to the same degree for everyone else

the double standard is extremely obvious and always has been at TL
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 15 2018 23:11 GMT
#3236
I don’t understand, a good chunk of dauntlesses posts have been calling people stupid or lacking the objectivity to understand whatever news event he is talking about. Insulting the thread at large is no better than when people take shots at dauntless.

Some, and I mean some, conservatives have problems in that thread because of the way approach the thread. Don’t march into the thread, guns blazing, calling the current line of discussion wrong or misinformed. We all have different opinions, don’t approach the thread like you need to disprove a specific narrative and then peace the fuck out. Or don’t be shocked when the people having that discussion all turn on you.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13924 Posts
July 15 2018 23:13 GMT
#3237
But you don't have to be half guns blazing in order for the entire thread to dogpile on you. You can make a single small remark on a single issue and people come out of the woodwork accusing you of arguing for and being about anything they can possibly think of. If the conversation we're having isn't having me as one of the contributors then I'm not in the conversation.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
July 15 2018 23:15 GMT
#3238
This is for everyone: Please don't add #fakenews at the end of your posts. It does not help the discussion being had when that stupid hashtag gets used. The term "fake news" has lost its original meaning because Donald Trump constantly misuses it in his never-ending effort to discredit any media source that challenges him or reports something that he doesn't like.
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
July 15 2018 23:23 GMT
#3239
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.

there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 23:47:15
July 15 2018 23:36 GMT
#3240
On July 16 2018 08:23 IgnE wrote:
seems pretty clear to me that whatever Trump's mental infirmity, he successfully linked "foe" to trade/economics.

there's a weird phenomenon where people in the thread bait themselves into attacking xdaunt like pitbulls. their eyes roll into the back of their skull and they are unable to delatch until the blood rage is over. it tends to make argument difficult. you know, like basic reading comprehension and reasonable interpretation

Yes, and the main critique against Trump was that he was not 200% clear that he was only talking about economics. That basic diplomacy is about being overwhelming clear due to things like language barriers. And if anyone was reading the comments up, they could have assumed that was the failure in diplomacy folks were talking about.

Also, trade, economics and military agression have always been linked.

On July 16 2018 01:27 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 00:08 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Just to make it extra clear that he wants to weaken / destroy any alliances with non-dictator-led countries, Trump called the EU an enemy of the US. In fact, when asked what the US's biggest foe currently was, it was the first answer that sprung to mind! What fun!

CBS - "I think the European Union is a foe," Trump says ahead of Putin meeting in Helsinki


In an interview with "CBS Evening News" anchor Jeff Glor in Scotland on Saturday, President Trump named the European Union -- comprising some of America's oldest allies -- when asked to identify his "biggest foe globally right now."


To be fair, he does qualify it somewhat but illustrating that he doesn't actually understand the word foe quite as most people do, but using some idiocy to excuse a lot of assholery is growing old real fast.

Lol, "to be fair." How about instead of giving a half-assed qualification when quoting him out of context, you post the entirety of what he said?

Show nested quote +
"Well, I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're a foe. Russia is foe in certain respects. China is a foe economically, certainly they are a foe. But that doesn't mean they are bad. It doesn't mean anything. It means that they are competitive," Mr. Trump said at his golf club in Turnberry, Scotland.

"I respect the leaders of those countries. But, in a trade sense, they've really taken advantage of us and many of those countries are in NATO and they weren't paying their bills," he added.


The statement looks quite different now in context, doesn't it? #fakenews

But seriously, when you say bait, you mean dauntless throwing down for a fight? This post screams “I’m taking all comers, line up please!”

You can say that it’s eye rolling that people take the bait. But arguing is fun sometimes. It’s just a problem when people whine about getting dunked on to hard after picking a fight.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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