EPTAnd again, not trolling or hating on BW etc.
Guide for players switching from SC2 - Page 2
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HornyHerring
Papua New Guinea1054 Posts
And again, not trolling or hating on BW etc. | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
-There were at least 4 foreigner tournaments popping up for BW withing the last month. -Fish and Brain servers have 30k-50k people between them at peak times -A part of SC2's popularity is hype and people who just wanted the next big thing, which will probably drop off eventually (especially when Blizzard pumps cash into SC3 and abandons the SC2 tournament scene) -Korean scene is still going strong, even the broadcasting rights thing got settled -The only progamers switching over are no longer good enough to contend, or weren't good enough to compete at the top level anyway. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
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pig-dude
United States170 Posts
On June 25 2011 09:41 HornyHerring wrote: Ok, I do realize that BW is much more skill demanding game than SC2, but... It seems that the scene is dieing now that sc2 is out and climbing. There are no big tournaments except for Korea, I've read someone saying that it's harder and harder to get a ladder match on iccup, so obviously the scene is on a downfall. As much as this game is demanding, there's no possibility to achieve anything in it anymore(not that foreigners ever stood a chance against Koreans). So my worry is, is there a point in moving to an old game that is going to disappear in the near future? I mean, I understand BW veterans that didn't like SC2 switching back. But how can starting to play BW from scratch at this point be anyhow rewarding? Coz ok, you gained better mechanics than SC2 players, but soon you'll be left alone in a dead game with nowhere to showoff those skills, unless you switch to SC2, right? Ofcourse BW is gonna live for a few more years(sure it's already out for over 12, but it had no other global RTS to challenge), it still has lots of fans, but seeing how SC2 grows I cant really see it not overcome BW, even in Korea. I'm pretty sure some(if not alot) korean pros will switch to sc2 in august when their licenses expire. All of this might be written in ignorance, since I obviously dont follow BW scene, but how do you see starting plying bw to be a good time investment and how do you see this game in near future? And again, not trolling or hating on BW etc. SC2 is a different game from BW. It is not a replacement, and will never be. It is just another RTS that is popular right now. There are unique things about BW that will keep it very popular for years, just like how CS 1.6 is still a very popular game. BW isn't going anywhere, and your skills will be plenty relevant for a very long time. If anything, I think that BW skills will be easier to appreciate in the very long term than SC2 skills. When both games are considered "dead" very long from now, I expect that more people still will be playing BW. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
(From a Zerg Perspective) General: Ultras are substantially better than in SC2. Guardians are like Brood Lords, but crappier. Defilers are mandatory, as is consume. ZvT: Lurkers are pretty good. A few lurkers can defend a base against drops, making Spires less mandatory than in SC2. Muta harassment is still good, but Science Vessels counter mutas so so hard, so you don't see them as much in the late game. Scourge are good for killing those vessels. Defilers are absolutely mandatory late game. You will not get bunker rushed every game, but expect some early pressure to force sunkens. ZvP: Most Protoss open Forge FE, and get Corsairs. Corsairs are like phoenixes that can't lift, but they're still good at killing overlords. Corsair/Dark Templar is common, but more common last I really checked is corsair reaver. Reaver drops are the BW version of Blue-flame hellion drops, and can kill your drones pretty hard. ZvZ: You thought SC2 ZvZ was twitchy and low-econ? BW ZvZ is muta/scourge vs muta/scourge with a rock/paper/scissors opening (unless you're Jaedong, and you're not). Games that progress to hive tech are pretty rare, and a little awesome. Remember SC2 PvP, before the 4gate nerf? ZvZ is basically that with mutas. It's considered the worst matchup | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
On June 25 2011 11:00 Ribbon wrote: Match-ups (From a Zerg Perspective) General: Ultras are substantially better than in SC2. Guardians are like Brood Lords, but crappier. Defilers are mandatory, as is consume. ZvT: Lurkers are pretty good. A few lurkers can defend a base against drops, making Spires less mandatory than in SC2. Muta harassment is still good, but Science Vessels counter mutas so so hard, so you don't see them as much in the late game. Scourge are good for killing those vessels. Defilers are absolutely mandatory late game. You will not get bunker rushed every game, but expect some early pressure to force sunkens. ZvP: Most Protoss open Forge FE, and get Corsairs. Corsairs are like phoenixes that can't lift, but they're still good at killing overlords. Corsair/Dark Templar is common, but more common last I really checked is corsair reaver. Reaver drops are the BW version of Blue-flame hellion drops, and can kill your drones pretty hard. I honestly don't think your knowledge of BW is sufficient to write up posts trying to explain it to SC2 players. Part of the problem is that you are trying to explain something so deep in only a few words, but there is also some misinformation. In what world is Corsair/Reaver the standard of PvZ? | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On June 25 2011 13:45 ZeroChrome wrote: I honestly don't think your knowledge of BW is sufficient to write up posts trying to explain it to SC2 players. Part of the problem is that you are trying to explain something so deep in only a few words, but there is also some misinformation. In what world is Corsair/Reaver the standard of PvZ? The world of late 2009 to mid-2010, when I watched/played a lot of BW. I'm kind of out-of-date on my metagame, but I wanted to get the thread back on topic. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
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Sayle
United Kingdom3685 Posts
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HornyHerring
Papua New Guinea1054 Posts
On June 25 2011 10:42 Ribbon wrote: I did not flame anything or anyone, so your post is irrelevant.Can we please not turn this thread into a "my game is better than yours" flamewar thread? It just makes people angry. Neither game is going to disappear in the next five years, so cut it out. On June 25 2011 10:06 Magus wrote: Alright, so point by point on that. -There were at least 4 foreigner tournaments popping up for BW withing the last month. -Fish and Brain servers have 30k-50k people between them at peak times -A part of SC2's popularity is hype and people who just wanted the next big thing, which will probably drop off eventually (especially when Blizzard pumps cash into SC3 and abandons the SC2 tournament scene) -Korean scene is still going strong, even the broadcasting rights thing got settled -The only progamers switching over are no longer good enough to contend, or weren't good enough to compete at the top level anyway. Seems I've got insufficient info then. I rest my case. Peace. : ) | ||
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mansa
Philippines336 Posts
The scene had always been small outside of korea. And I still have my doubts that SC2 might change that. TBH I expect SC2 to be also dominated by koreans. In the next 5 years perhaps. + Show Spoiler + Or probably Europe will be the hub of eSport outside korea. Seing how good their players are. I also find it funny how people say that "Its hard to find games on ICCUP" because I can get games in less than 5 minutes you should be able to get game easy from D to D+ or maybe even C- level. And I usually play on time where ICCUP has 400 people online. And I could even get games faster than that if I play on peak hours 700-1000 people online. We play BW because its fun. And its challenging. I still miss C&C3 on WCG T_T | ||
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AfecksN
United Kingdom53 Posts
One thing I will say is having guests on to assist with analyzing replays would be nice; more points of view = deeper analysis. Looking forward to this! :D | ||
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Adzigari
United States44 Posts
On June 25 2011 10:06 Magus wrote: -The only progamers switching over are no longer good enough to contend, or weren't good enough to compete at the top level anyway. JulyZerg? Nada? Maybe July was getting out of shape towards the end but last I checked Nada was still taking games from Stork and Flash. Anyways, its been awhile since i played BW and ive forgotten a lot of stuff, but what is the optimal saturation for mineral lines? Is it like, 1 per patch + 3-4? | ||
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hellbound
United Kingdom2242 Posts
On June 26 2011 07:33 Adzigari wrote: JulyZerg? Nada? Maybe July was getting out of shape towards the end but last I checked Nada was still taking games from Stork and Flash. Anyways, its been awhile since i played BW and ive forgotten a lot of stuff, but what is the optimal saturation for mineral lines? Is it like, 1 per patch + 3-4? No just no.  July wasn't getting games at all for forever and  NaDa was, what, taking turns with Midas and Major for the third terran spot on Wemade, not a top team. While I do not doubt that their level of play was still very high, they were no longer among the people who could, say, qualify for a starleague.Case in point: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/players/147_NaDa/games Interestingly TLPD claims that NaDa has never won an official game against Flash and that his last win over  Stork was almost two years before his retirement.Optimal saturation depends on what race you play. Zerg tends to have workers spread more thinly over more bases. Afaik T and P consider 2.5/min. full saturation, while Z rarely go over 1.5. This varies depending on the strategy and is rough estimate. | ||
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LMPeaches
United States157 Posts
On June 25 2011 10:06 Magus wrote: Alright, so point by point on that. -There were at least 4 foreigner tournaments popping up for BW withing the last month. -Fish and Brain servers have 30k-50k people between them at peak times -A part of SC2's popularity is hype and people who just wanted the next big thing, which will probably drop off eventually (especially when Blizzard pumps cash into SC3 and abandons the SC2 tournament scene) -Korean scene is still going strong, even the broadcasting rights thing got settled -The only progamers switching over are no longer good enough to contend, or weren't good enough to compete at the top level anyway. How does the SC2 scene rely on Blizzard for tournaments? That statement makes no sense. Also your conclusion that SC3 will beat SC2 is ironic because if that's how games work, why hasn't SC2 overshadowed BW by now? | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On June 26 2011 10:43 LMPeaches wrote: How does the SC2 scene rely on Blizzard for tournaments? That statement makes no sense. Also your conclusion that SC3 will beat SC2 is ironic because if that's how games work, why hasn't SC2 overshadowed BW by now? Because every SC2 tournaments have been founded by Blizzard in one or another. The GSLs very much feel like an artificial tournaments created by blizzard instead of evolving by itself. And the reason why SC2 haven't been overshadowed BW by now is because well BW is just a superior game and SC2 will be more superior than SC3 so yeah..... | ||
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
I think you should make some 1-minute guides for the common rushes/openings (4 pool, 9 pool, 2 Fact, 2 Gate, BBS, etc..) and also some 1-minute guides on how to stop them. The SC2 ones are quite humorous. Sayle's show was alright, but it lacked direction. There wasn't much driving force to it, and at times I felt like they were dragging things on longer than they needed to. If you are planning on doing a show, make sure you have a main focus for each episode. | ||
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Lumire
United States607 Posts
On June 25 2011 11:00 Ribbon wrote: Match-ups (From a Zerg Perspective) General: Ultras are substantially better than in SC2. Guardians are like Brood Lords, but crappier. Defilers are mandatory, as is consume. ZvT: Lurkers are pretty good. A few lurkers can defend a base against drops, making Spires less mandatory than in SC2. Muta harassment is still good, but Science Vessels counter mutas so so hard, so you don't see them as much in the late game. Scourge are good for killing those vessels. Defilers are absolutely mandatory late game. You will not get bunker rushed every game, but expect some early pressure to force sunkens. ZvP: Most Protoss open Forge FE, and get Corsairs. Corsairs are like phoenixes that can't lift, but they're still good at killing overlords. Corsair/Dark Templar is common, but more common last I really checked is corsair reaver. Reaver drops are the BW version of Blue-flame hellion drops, and can kill your drones pretty hard. ZvZ: You thought SC2 ZvZ was twitchy and low-econ? BW ZvZ is muta/scourge vs muta/scourge with a rock/paper/scissors opening (unless you're Jaedong, and you're not). Games that progress to hive tech are pretty rare, and a little awesome. Remember SC2 PvP, before the 4gate nerf? ZvZ is basically that with mutas. It's considered the worst matchup lol so much of this is wrong i wont even point it out, its nice that you tried and all but don't go around trying to explain BW strategy. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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