Here we go, the Analysis on iGrok and my Positon of him.
Let’s delve into his game plan
1st post
[QUOTE] In the shadows lies
A peculiar type of Man
Kuze is my name.
In this game, I will start all of my posts with haikus. Enjoy ^^
On June 05 2011 14:39 cherubael wrote:
Show nested quote +
So...you asked a question so you could be lynched day one...alright...that makes sense. (note the sarcasm)
Either you give a legitimate, straight reason to ask this sort of question as townie, or you clearly are just trying to save your butt after having messed and shown your role as mafia.
Also, Aril, you seem to be very quick in defending him, while not wanting to accuse anyone. Are you afraid your role will be too obvious if you accuse someone? Also, what reason do you have to defend him? What has he done for you? The only reason would be because you are both mafia, and you are trying to look out for him.
He has plenty of reasons to be a townie. Don't even think about that kind of McCarthy Bullshit this early in the game.
Anyone voting this early deserves some measure of suspicion.
Also, I am schwasted, so this may not make a lot of sense. (White Russians are the best!)
But.
If you are new to mafia, welcome. A quick word of advice: Think before you act. Those people who have already voted are acting too hastily. a 40 man game is much more about reasoning than putting pressure on someone. And the only reason you would vote this early is to put pressure on someone.
Things to note about this game:
Detectives instead of watchers: This gives us hard checks (with a few exceptions) on who is scum/town. Town needs to know this information, and we need to keep it out of the hands of mafia. For new players, this is where crumbing comes in. Crumbing is leaving clues about what you want to say. The best crumbs will be deciphered by us and not by scum. However, crumbs can be used a different way, in that you leave crumbs no one can decipher and then reveal multiple crumbs later. This is good if you are new because often times no one can understand your crumbs anyways since you don't have experience.
Vigilantes: Need to not use your shots immediately. You are MUCH more likely to hit a civilian than scum at first, and also more likely to caus confusion.
Those are the two most important roles this game.
Regarding discussion:
Freeloader is probably not scum. He is new and likely inexperienced. However, just to be sure, a cop needs to check him tonight. Which reminds me:
If a miller is roleblocked, what does he return to investiagtion?
Anyways, many good ideas floating around for a newbie game Keep up the good work
He introduces himself into the games. He makes a statement about Russians (Slovaks rape Russians any day) and gives a good word of advice. “Think before you act”. This is good way to start out the game as this is the newbie game. However, he is now trying to give advice to the DTs and the Vigis, telling them things that the mafia also knows.” Crumbling”; I am quite sure the mafias are going to look for that and Vigis should always be cautious regardless, no matter. He states that Freeloader is just a scrub townie. He then states that there are a lot of good ideas floating around when the biggest thing going was the freeloader debacble.
2nd post
[QUOTE] cherubel wrote:
Also, what reason do you have to defend him?
I didn't even see this.
If you use this argument again I will be sure you die. If Townies don't defend other townies from bullshit attacks, this game will end quite rapidly, and not in our favor.[/QUOTE]
iGrok now states that cherubel is asking for a reason is stating that cherubel will die for this. He then wants the town to not defend other townies when he stated in his first post that freeloader was probably a townie, and gave his reasons for that. Townies should defend other townies, and mafia should defend other mafias. If no one defended anybody, the Kurumi practically won the game for himself then.
3rd post is a haiku post.
4th post also a failed haiku post.
5th post is another haiku and an example of how to ask a mod question.
6th post is him stating that there is no haiku and sees that he made a mistake.
7th post
[QUOTE] une 05 2011 18:07 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
What? Bad lynches are good lynches? Are You a stupid Rat or You're a Noobtown? Lynch is the most IMPORTANT tool town gets.
##vote Treadmill
Two threads, Two places
Vote in one, not the other
Or you may mislead.
Just fyi, voting in the Thread and not in the voting thread is considered scummy at higher levels of play. I will of course excuse you since you are new, but I'm trying to help you out here - if you're going to vote, then vote, but make sure you know what you're doing. Make sure you read my post.
Also, again with the bullshit McCarthyism - This is VERY anti-town, and if you're a menace to town, promoting anti-town play, its in our best interest to remove you from the game if we have no strong mafia targets.
tl;dr: CTFO[/QUOTE]
He is now attacking kurumi for McCarthyism. Please take care to note that this is a mafia game, not a cold war, so if leads can be generated from McCarthyism, it is more beneficial for the town here. He states that kurumi is acting like a mafia rather than a townie.
Post 8 and 9 is more asking of kurumi to chill out and an EBWOP
10th post
[QUOTE] On June 05 2011 18:25 Kurumi wrote:
EDWOP:
I write "You" with capital Y because I feel like and it is Polish thing.
I call Scum/people I am suspicious of Rats. Get over it.
No haiku for this,
The point is too short for one.
Just a simple note
Do shit like this, you're going to piss people off. Pissing people off is a good way to die. Dying does not help your team at all (at least in this game). You know this, you've played several games. Don't fuck over the newbies because you want to be obnoxious.
As far as your "slips" go:
Lafali, from what I can tell, is a newbie who bandwagonned, read my post warning against bandwagons, and unvoted.
Treadmill: He said we should wait, and every point of evidence is important no matter how small. Great reason to vote him.
Point grew after I wrote the haiku[/QUOTE]
Number one, iGrok never talked about bandwagonning, so lafali couldn’t have read anything on not bandwagonning. Number two, treadmill made a townie statement by stating that everyone is acting too fast and every piece of evidence is important. Ummm, why is that a mafia thing? Mafia wants to create chaos and freeloader is a great example of that. So why is Treadmill being targeted?
11th post is iGrok telling drazerk that he voted without posting and says that people were warned against it. I did not see anything like that in the rules, only as a suggestion to do since only the worst mafia would vote like that. iGrok already labeled drazerk with red ink to place a lot of suspicions on him.
12 post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 04:49 GGQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
You didn't actually mention iGrok in your post, but you voted for him. More explaining please?
My Final Haiku:
I guess fun is not allowed.
Srs Bsns.
You, sir, have no sense of fun.
So let me get this straight - your reason for voting me is "Thread Derailment" and not wanting to vote for treadmill?
You do realize you could just -wait- to vote, right?
Honestly, those are some of the worst reasons to vote that I can think of. Particularly since your post is, aside from your "evidence" against me, just a regurgitation of other posts. Post some analysis, and good analysis not just bullshit like the above post.
You may be thinking, "Why haven't you (iGrok) posted strong analysis yet then?" And knowng you, and probably kurumi as well, there probably a "Scum!" (or "Rat!") thrown in there. The reason is that last night there was nothing to analyze yet, but I saw that the town was disintegrating really fast and I had to step up to try to stop that from happening. May analysis will come after 24 hours of game time, no sooner or later. I will focus on one person, selected without bias, and attempt to ascertain through their posts what their alignment is. Anyone who remembers me from Experiment Mafia 2, I was Pink2 - You remember my analysis of Blue, and how strong that was.
In closing, BE PATIENT. Talk, yes, Discuss, yes. Accuse, especially with as little actual substance has happened so far, no.[/QUOTE]
Ok, iGrok never says anything about the accusations against him, but says that people can wait to vote. Also, iGrok says that his analysis will come later and he will pick a person on objective reasons. He then links probably his last good analysis of some random old game. At least link that game so we can see what you said. He then ends with a closing statement of “be patient”. Coming from a townie stand-point, that makes sense, but really there was no need to say so. The Town also never was disintergrating at all, it was only be attacked by mafia.
13rd post is his EBWOP stating that his 12th post was directed at gtrsrs. Also, he labeled GGQ as a townie with the green font. HOW THE FUCK DID HE KNOW THAT? WE DIDN’T EVEN KNOW MUCH ABOUT GGQ AND GGQ ALSO STARTED TO ACCUSE iGROK A BIT EARILER IN THE THREAD. O.o?
Just based on this so far, you can easily say that iGrok is a mafia scum since he knew who GGQ was without proving that stance.
14th post is him telling blackone to read the haikus.
15th post
[QUOTE] Show nested quote +
Well now we know that the mafia has an own thread or something like that. i think we can surely say iGrock was just doing it to stand out/fun/boredom.
Mafia ALWAYS has their own quicktopic. Thats how things run. The only exception was Sleeper Cell Mafia, which I hosted ^^
But thanks for understanding me. I'd like to have fun this game. Its not that I'm not taking things seriously![/QUOTE]
I do not care about sleeper cell mafia, why even say it? I liked your haikus too, oh well.
16th post is him taking out benj with asking for a mod check on editing
17th post is iGrok telling alderan to give timestamps on quotes. Note that Alderan did a short analysis of me, but iGrok never responded to what he said nor gave his stance on me yet from this analysis.
18th post is iGrok writing rules about self-modding in the games
19th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 12:13 CjrNinja wrote:
Gl hf everyone.
Day 1 thoughts:
Freeloader625 innocently asks a silly question and gets a lot of heat on him because of it. I doubt he is scum, experienced players have already said that mods make it clear to mafia that they can communicate outside the thread. I’d say that his posts shows him to be more town orientated because of it. so all those voting for Freeloader please unvote him immediately so as to avoid a mislynch. Subsequent posts are ambiguous one-liners, not really much to go on, looks silly but not screaming scum to me.
Speaking of which, the people who have voted for freeloader625:
Cherubael- Not sure about this guy. Pushed for the freeloader vote, which raised my suspicions of until I saw that he pointed out 35spike1s post and further lack of contribution (see below).
Show nested quote +
Please elaborate on the last part for me.
Jimbooo- vote retracted. Quick to jump the gun for a lynch, but realizes his mistake and unvotes quickly. Probably too overeager, no scummy posts.
Lafali- vote retracted.
Show nested quote +
WTF is this shit? Hopping on the voting bandwagon is exactly what scum does in order to lynch townies. Good job, way to do the scum’s work for them. Based on this post alone it makes you either scum, or a very clueless townie. You’re my prime suspect atm but I’ll withhold voting for you until after I see how you defend yourself.
Treadmill, Benjef, Drazerk, grush57. Don’t really have much of a read on these guys. Treadmill pretty hasty in his posts like Jimbooo, but went about it in a more scummy way. Can you all please unvote Freeloader for now and wait until some of the more legitimate candidates for your vote continue posting?
Others:
35spike1
Show nested quote +
All the one liners regarding the freeloader post aren’t helping town, it gives the opportunity for scum to fly under the radar and post rubbish like this and getting away with it unchecked. Keeping my eye on 35spike1. Time for a contribution please.
Kumuri- Pretty experienced. Very forward with his opinion and is looking at the right people. Definitely the most day1 pro-town person we have at the moment.
Amazingxkcd- Stop posting obvious, non contributing shit. “It is quite clear that it can be seen who are the main talkers for both side. The only question is now how to distinguish between the two sides and how to act upon it.” That post has no value whatsoever except as a front for you to appear active.
Also, your copy+paste post on the guides to mafia are equally useless. Analysis on the game please, if other people haven’t already read the 4th post on this thread, then it’s their loss.
TheAwesomeAll- He made a list, and he’s checking it twice. No big deal, a good way to keep track of people who haven’t contributed much, if anything. Don’t know why people are getting so riled up about it though monsterDrakar?
Conclusion/tl;dr: Everyone stop voting forFreeloader and keep your eyes on what Lafali, Cherubael, 35spike1 and Amazingxkcd have to say.
/rant
Whats your opinion of me? Curious[/QUOTE]
This is probably iGrok’s first major slip-up. He has yet to give any meaning analysis besides the one on kurumi, and now he is asking for what people think of him. This is as bad as saying “Hey, who are the blues here? Let’s think about what to do”. If iGrok really was a townie, then he shouldn’t worry since he knows that he is innocent. If iGrok was mafia, then clearly he is a bit worried about his position in the game. Gtrsrs is being quite accurate on why iGrok seems fishy. IGrok still has yet to respond to the analysis that other people give.
20th post is him telling everyone to wait for his analysis of kurumi.
21st post is him stating that a certain player isn’t playing.
22nd post is him giving his massive post on kurumi. Also, I play as GlaDOS in roleplaying games, particularly mafia games when you pick your name, and he stole my identity.
23rd post is iGrok responding to gtrsrs and then referencing another the same mafia game. Well, if town won on day 3, maybe I can win for the town on day 2? 0.o?
24th and 25th post is random stuff, disregard.
26th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 16:04 gtrsrs wrote:
here is my scum hunt
you post haiku's in a game where posting anything more than necessary is distracting and derailing
you try to find the town's blues so that the mafia can know what they're up against
the one thing that the town has as an advantage is that the mafia doesn't know our PRs and here you are spelling the info out for them
even if you're not mafia, your two biggest contributions so far are anti-town
everyone i encourage you to ##vote: iGrok and watch how he (and others) react as the votes pile up. putting the pressure on someone is a good way to find mafia. watch the people that come to defend him and how they do so and then when he flips red, go after them next
Okay, this is not an analysis. Everyone please note how bad this is.
But as a refutation,
I posted haikus because I wanted to, and every single one had a purpose.
I did not try to find out the town's blues. I tried to guess the setup. This helps town out just as much as it helps scum out, if not more so. If you disagree, I want to know why, in explicit detail.
Mafia doesn't know who is what PR, or even how many - they can only guess, same as me. Same point as above.
If you count both of those as my only two contributions, I'll be able to simply ignore you as a terrile player. The analysis of Kurumi, and holding town together from fracturing immediately should also be in there. As well as explaining several concepts for the newer players.
On June 06 2011 16:11 gtrsrs wrote:
in fact i think kurumi is doing the right thing. we have nothing to go on on day 1. there are a lot of inexperienced players. lots of times if a new player is mafia and you insinuate that they're mafia they get really defensive. even if they know that you're accusing everyone, new players can slip up when you get around to accusing them. so i think kurumi is just trying to shake out some baddie mafias.
I went through your post history - when exactly have you played before? I know you're big in the LoL subforum, but all I could find regarding mafia was as a replacement in SNMM3 and a late /in for Newbie Mini Mafia I. Just curious because you're acting like you have some knowledge of how newbies play vs how experienced people play.[/QUOTE]
His first point is that he tried to hide the PRs. If he really wanted to hide the PRs, then he should had just simply said “do not reveal yourself at all until you feel safe to do so”. His next point is guessing the PR count. No one knows the PR count in this game. Then he attempts to put gtrsrs by stating that he has done a lot more for the town. When we looked at the last 26 posts made by iGrok, only one actually had any good meaning, which was the analysis of Kurumi. He is lying about his own contributions. There is no need to do so. Just admit that he didn’t do much. Also, he lied about holding the town together when in reality it was rookie who got the town together (ask me later why).
27th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 16:20 CjrNinja wrote:
@ iGrok
I disagree with your player analysis. I think Kumuri is taking a very pro-town initiative by putting a lot of pressure on inexperienced players. It's a good opportunity to gauge reactions and hopefully pick up on a scum slip if the accused can't handle the pressure ^^
Also, the less attention towards blue roles, the better... last thing town needs is an inexperienced playing letting slip his blue role on day1.
Disagreement is fine! I'm a huge fan of actual discussion about things - but someone had to start the analysis, and the little quotes we were getting before are much more annoying to deal with. As I said, I'm not completely certain on Kurumi, but if I had to choose I'd say scum. Thats why I asked for a DT check.
Regarding my 'focus on blue roles', which I take you and gtr to mean my Setup Analysis, what I love most about Mafia is the mechanics, and so I'm going to try to work those out as best I can. Since neither mafia nor town knew (or knows now) how many of each role there are, I haven't really done anything. However, with rough, probable numbers, we can work out the best way to assign our blue powers. Blues are (arguably) the most important part of a mafia game - we should try to line up some good actions instead of just hoping for the best.[/QUOTE]
Big mistake here. If iGrok was a fan of discussion, then why is it that the only people that he talked about was kurumi and gtrsrs. Against kurumi, he just tries to state that kurumi is acting like McCarthy (DO your history research, this guy is actually an interesting case). Against gtrsrs, his defence had either been lies about his posts or about gtrsrs not having enough evidence.
28th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
note, town, how now that i am FoSing iGrok more publicly, he's attempting to discredit me as he starts to panic. even though he LITERALLY just told you to not let kurumi sheep you and use experience as a reason to put him in a position of power, he's now going to attempt to do the exact same thing. classic sheeping attempt here, he points out that i'm not a well-known figure on the mafia sub-forum. good play is good play, you don't have to be an experienced player to pick up on a scumtell. but iGrok is going to call me a bad player and pretend to ignore me. notice how he will now try to shift the attention of the town elsewhere - probably by using a 9000-character post again on an "analysis" of someone else
don't fall for his passive-aggressive tricks, town
Nice OMGUS, bro. You have a habit of responding only to one thing in a post. You should probably change that, not just for this game but for all of them.
Anyways, the last thing I'm going to say regarding this (unless you keep up the smear campaign [or answer my points]) is that I said Kurumi is trying to use experience he doesn't have to get into power by associating himself with those who do. Personally, I think Jackal58, GGQ, or Vain would be great people to look up to and have confidence in - they're all pretty experienced and -good- players. Whomever among them we can confirm/be reasonably certain is town should be looked up to.
And just FTR, it wasn't 9,000 characters. It was 26,088 characters. Lets see you put that kind of effort into a post, eh?[/QUOTE]
230,000 characters and counting. Care to put that kind of effort into a post, eh? Ok, HE LABELS VAIN AS TOWNIE, GGQ AS TOWNIE, AND JACKAL AS TOWNIE. GGQ DIED A TOWNIE. He never talked anything about GGQ nor Jackal nor Vain. That is quite a suspicion. Again, HOW DOES HE KNOW WHO GGQ AND JACKAL AND VAIN ARE?? HE NEVER TALKED ABOUT HIS STANCES ON THEM?!!?
29th post is him saying that if he is 100% correct, he will never play with Meapak again. Well, Jackal is confirmed scum, and GGQ is confirmed townie, so looks like Meapak is going to play with him again.
30th post
[QUOTE] EBWOP:
The reason is because those are by far the three strongest players in this game, and it simply wouldn't be fair. Hosts are supposed to randomize teams, but they have some responsibility to ensure a fair and balanced game.[/QUOTE]
What previous history did he have with those 3? How does he know that Meapak could have balanced them like that?
31st post is him laughing at the only small analysis of him. I am sure that if gtrsrs knew about day 1 results, then he could have made a more convincing post.
32nd post is iGrok talking about Pyo’s decision.
I do not understand this. GTRSRS has been hating on iGrok for practically the entire game and iGrok just says “gtrsrs is not scum”. HUH? 0.o? 0.o? 0.o?
33rd post is iGrok defending himself against Pyo. The only defense he posted revolves around having fun and “keeping the town together”. I assure you that he has lied about this already.
34th post is telling the amount of hours left in the game.
35th post
[QUOTE] Hey Jackal, good to see you again. Mind going over my Kurumi analysis?[/QUOTE]
I have brought forth a major post about this and I will TL:DR this here: iGrok just met jackal? iGrok just trust jackal? 0.o?
36th post is iGrok saying that he shouldn’t have analyzed Kurumi. And he plays Protoss…. (Fucking Reavers and Colussi…)
37th post
[QUOTE] On June 06 2011 22:52 amazingxkcd wrote:
Show nested quote +
As his post concerning kurumi 's behavior had helped, i am concerned with this statement. iGrok has listed a couple of seasoned players whom he reconizes for their experiences, but here he is already jumping to the conclusion that he had no reason to suspect them, especially jackal whom only made a post spectulating.
It seems to be that iGrok is quite convinced that kurumi is a scum as he already asked for a dt check rather than trust the dts to make the right decisions.
About jackal, i do not know much about him as he has not stated a lot yet, but iGrok is showing us that he is in league with jackal as from the podt above.
As of now, i do not want to label iGrok as scum, and i'd rather wait until later to see what jackal says and how the game flows, but iGrok is still suspicious. If iGrok is convicted as scum, then that puts pressure on jackal to respond.
If I was convinced Kurumi was scum, I'd be pushing for his lynch - hard.
Do I know that Jackal is town? No. I know he's good. Therefore I want a lot of action from him, for two reasons: If Jackal is Town, a lot of action from him means a lot of pro-town things happen. If he is scum, a lot of action occurs that I can make a read from.[/QUOTE]
He did a 27,00 character post on analysis on Kurumi and isn’t convinced that kururmi is mafia? Why waste 27,000 characters then? Then he defends Jackal. Remember this, Jackal and iGrok inherently trust each other throughout this game.
38th post is iGrok asking Xedat to add more information to the list
39th post is iGrok saying that editing is the cardinal sin.
40th post is saying that 12 hours until end of day 1
41st post.
[QUOTE] Goddamnit Kurumi I don't know if you're town or scum. PICK A SIDE DAMNIT[/QUOTE]
AS OF NOW, THIS IS THE ONLY POST TO PROTECT IGROK FROM BEING LABELED AS MAFIA. How? He’s acting like he doesn’t know. But I am afraid that this is too weak to protect him.
42nd post, disregard since Vain made a typo error
43rd post is iGrok having no clue about who to lynch. About this time, people started to form cases against me and against you. Why don’t you lynch me? I am the biggest target right now.
44th post is Him making a list of people. Look really hard at the people he is trying to protect from lynches. Then he votes Drazerk for voting without posting. Not exactly the best course of action. If he is bandwagonning, and not talking then he probably have no important role in this game, despite looking very scummy.
45th post
[QUOTE] On June 07 2011 03:11 Kurumi wrote:
Show nested quote +
That's pretty big list. Care to explain why those people shouldn't be lynched?
Me: I'm Town.
Jackal, Vain, GGQ: I want to know who among you is also town.
Kurumi: I don't know what to think about him, but I want to know more. As the game progresses he's gotten better imo, so I'm waiting to see how he turns out.
Treadmill, 35spike1, CrJNinja, Xedat, aprudds: Hes not afraid to say what he thinks, and did some decent analysis.[/QUOTE]
Um, you are not town, bye bye.
Jackal is not town, GGQ got killed, Vain I wrote his analysis already.
Kurumi, you’re town,
The others; I either didn’t know yet or they are suspicious to me.
This could be seen as a mistake since iGrok wanted to keep GGQ safe and Jackal safe. Essentially, he is trying to keep all of the experienced players alive rather than his side alive.
46th post is iGrok wanting a DT check on Kurumi.
47th post iGrok is now advocating gtrsrs for wanting to lynch iGrok without any proof yet besides saying that gtrsrs is hating on him.
48th post iGrok would be shocked if the GF would be lynched on day 1. That technically cannot happen. Very scummy post here.
49th post is mod help request
50th post
[QUOTE] Alright guys, I'm awake. Reading through now....
On June 07 2011 09:24 GGQ wrote:
Thoughts on what I've read so far: iGrok's post on setup was not blue-fishing at all (if he was doing that for the benefit of his mafia friends, he would post it in mafia quicktopic, not in thread), but it also was kind of useless (sorry bro, I know you like this kind of stuff, but there was no need to post it). You went through a lot of trouble and wild conjecture just to arrive at the conclusion that we probably have a pretty normal setup (2dts, 2-3medics, 2-4vigs, 2-4 vets). You could have just stated that that's a normal setup for the roles that were listed. I want to mention, though, that I've played in games on this forum where the only blue roles were vigilantes, and where the only blue roles were veterans. Be ready for anything and DONT count on blue roles to win the game for you. Greens win games far more often than blues do.
The reason I posted the big analysis even though it came to a normal setup was so that many of the new people, who don't know what a traditional setup is, would have a rough idea.
That being said, I find this rookie bandwagon very interesting. I don't think he's scum, just... bad with his words.
Drazert is still my vote.[/QUOTE]
iGrok posted an analysis on kurumi because he wanted to show an example? 0.o? I thought he wanted to give his stance on Kurumi. He then accurately predicts that Rookie just sucks at this game.
51st post is EBWOP and 52nd post is him asking for clarification on Impervious’s plan
52nd post is timestamp till 1st lynch.
53rd post is wordplay with CjrNinja’s name
AFTER THE DAY 1 LYNCHES, OTHER PEOPLE START TO ANALYIZE iGROK’s MOVE FROM THAT PERIOD, SO REFER TO THEM.
IN ALL, HE HAS REALLY ONLY MADE A COUPLE OF GOOD IN-DEPTH POSTS, BUT HE HAS YET TO MAKE A REALLY GOOD PRO-TOWN MOVE. HIS ONLY GOOD ANALYSIS IS ON KURUMI, AND HE HASN’T BEEN PLAYING IN THE TOWN’S FAVOR AT ALL.VERDICT IS
MAFIA
ISCLAIMER: THERE IS A SUPER SMALL CHANCE iGROK IS TOWNIE. IF HE FLIPS GREEN, NO ONE SHOULD BLAME EACH OTHER SINCE HE PLAYED LIKE A GODFATHER HERE*
EPT
