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On May 31 2011 02:13 Doppelganger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment. Sill better than another Version of "The valiant young hero vanquishes the vicious villain". If I read one of those stories again I think I'm gonna die of boredom.
You should expand your range of books then. There are plenty of fantasy series out there that aren't bildungsromans. It's not saying much for the Malazan series if that was the first justification for it that came to mind.
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On May 31 2011 03:14 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2011 02:13 Doppelganger wrote:On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment. Sill better than another Version of "The valiant young hero vanquishes the vicious villain". If I read one of those stories again I think I'm gonna die of boredom. You should expand your range of books then. There are plenty of fantasy series out there that aren't bildungsromans. It's not saying much for the Malazan series if that was the first justification for it that came to mind.
Well I wanted a gory stile, prevalent magic, and something where the tone is more important than character development. (and it certainly sounded like that I am not very far into the first book)
Oh and I happily take recommendations XD
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On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment.
Really? What about the LOST series? The whole show was based upon not knowing shit, and discovering it in the end. That's kind of what the malazan books are, at least at first. The difference is as you learn more, more discoveries unfold and more storyline are brought to the surface. Something that appears briefly in the third book could have a huge impact on the ninth. It's just a very layered story and that's what's so awesome about it.
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Can someone explain to me what a warren is? At first I thought it was a magical tunnel/realm that could be used to travel around and defied space/time and there were a bunch of different warrens based on the gods, houses, elder magic, etc. And then it became a weapon used by mages and stuff. But what actually is a warren?
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On June 06 2011 07:39 NationInArms wrote: Can someone explain to me what a warren is? At first I thought it was a magical tunnel/realm that could be used to travel around and defied space/time and there were a bunch of different warrens based on the gods, houses, elder magic, etc. And then it became a weapon used by mages and stuff. But what actually is a warren? It never really is explained but it can be seen as all of those subjects you have outlined. Lower quality mages, if I am correct, can access the power of their warren in some small way (Denul gives healing ability) while the boss ass mages can use it for travel/superawesomedamage.
Also + Show Spoiler +If I remember my reading correctly, the warrens are actually similar to the veins of K'rul. Some dragons are also representations of different warrens I don't have my books here with me, only have the last one, so I can't go back and site where/when I read this junk but I believe it is explored in the last few books.
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Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
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On June 06 2011 07:39 NationInArms wrote: Can someone explain to me what a warren is? At first I thought it was a magical tunnel/realm that could be used to travel around and defied space/time and there were a bunch of different warrens based on the gods, houses, elder magic, etc. And then it became a weapon used by mages and stuff. But what actually is a warren?
From my interpretation the Warrens are reality itself. That reality takes the form of many different 'warrens' which are the different 'space/time' areas of reality. Those who can access a Warrens power are basically accessing the very energy that it is.
Also, it was said in the books that Krul the elder God created the first Warrens with his own body and the warrens are now his blood and veins. Before that there was only the 'chaos' which lies between beyond and between the warrens. Basically the opposite of reality.
When the Warrens were first created beings spontaneously arose and started to influence the evolution of the warrens based on their beliefs and attitudes. This gave rise to the new houses and Gods which are basically an incarnation of that Warren.
The world that the main story takes place in would be a 'Warren' as well. The Tiste Andii could access its powers as well from their own Warren, Kurald Galain.
Although, thats just my interpretation. Its really hard to get the whole picture of what anything is in the series or the genesis of the world and its history because Erikson deliberately leaves it out. He once said that he wants the books not to be looked at like a story but as a history of the world and its people. Things are deliberately left foggy and unclear to get this effect because as we all know rarely are things in history clear cut and understandable.
A lot of people are dissatisfied at the books because of this. They'd rather have it all clear cut and easily understood. To me though it lends more of an epic feel. You take things at face value and slowly link them together until you see the bigger picture, which ends up being a truly epic one. That's really what makes his series fantastic for me: the fact that you can understand the story line and characters taking place in the book but simultaneously leaves a massive amount of information out that is filled in slowly over time from many different characters and story lines.
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I made the mistake of jumping in on book 7 (not reading the front cover say "Book seven"), and dear god was I confused. However, the writing and the multiple storylines running concurrently is very enjoyable.
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On June 28 2011 03:40 JinDesu wrote: I made the mistake of jumping in on book 7 (not reading the front cover say "Book seven"), and dear god was I confused. However, the writing and the multiple storylines running concurrently is very enjoyable. I think each of the books are intended to be somewhat of a stand-alone story(for as far as that's possible) but I can imagine being totally lost when jumping in that far . There are many good points about this series but I think I love the characters and his humor the most. There are too many to all name but Karsa is just awesome, there's Tehol/Bugg, all of the crazy marines etc.
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I first heard about the Malazan series four years ago and I forced myself through the first four books. I gave up on the fifth when it again started with complete new set of characters and on a different continent. It's not just the first book, Erikson never explains anything. No, I don't like being spoon fed information in a book, but It should have some structure. There were also tons of subplots, plot holes, and hints that that never got explained.. and I lost faith that they ever would be when each new book abandoned half the characters. The timeline was also a mess.
I will say Erikson has some pretty neat fantasy stuff going on his books. I just wish he was a better writer. My suggestion to anyone thinking about starting this series.. have a notepad handy, because you'll probably forget a lot of the subtle things about a book X character when he/she is finally reintroduced in book Y.
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On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler +
1) Cadre = a group of magii?
2) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
3) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
4) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
Thanks if you can answer the above
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On June 30 2011 07:26 zZygote wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess. Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler + 1) What the hell is a warren? I think it's some kind of dimensional hole or a rift in time which can be used for transportation? But it can also be used to conjur magic?
2) Cadre = a group of magii?
3) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
4) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
5) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
Thanks if you can answer the above
+ Show Spoiler + 1) This is never laid out clearly. There are many explanations given, none of them are complete. Just like our understanding of sciences is never complete, neither is the characters' understanding of warrens. The most succinct but helpful explanation I can give without spoiling future revelations is that a warren is like a nexus of power aligned with some force or idea (light, fire, illusions, death, etc). Mages draw their power from one or more of these warrens. Yes, one of the powers you can use a warren for is to travel through it (it manifests as a physical world, it's possible for people to live within warrens).
2) Yes, Malazan armies have mage cadres, which are groups of mid-level mages who work together to provide the army with magic capabilities. Mages in the mage cadre are separate from High Mages like Tayschrenn, who are very powerful, much more rare, and tend to work alone, and are also separate from squad mages like Quick Ben who work within a single squad of marines as a unit.
3) The first scene with Tattersail and Hairlock takes place after the attack on the flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. Hairlock is just a normal human, he is cut in half during the flashback to the battle scene, which is why he has no legs during the first scene you meet him in.
4) They are completely different people, but they are allies in this war. Caladan Brood is the warlord leading an army far to north of Pale (the scene of the battle against Moon's Spawn). Anomander Rake is the lord of Moon's Spawn, who singlehandedly fights against the Malazan army at Pale.
5) I can't remember Dujek's age, but humans in Malazan live longer than humans in our world. IIRC it has something to do with warrens.
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On June 30 2011 07:51 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 07:26 zZygote wrote:On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess. Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler + 1) What the hell is a warren? I think it's some kind of dimensional hole or a rift in time which can be used for transportation? But it can also be used to conjur magic?
2) Cadre = a group of magii?
3) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
4) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
5) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
Thanks if you can answer the above + Show Spoiler + 1) This is never laid out clearly. There are many explanations given, none of them are complete. Just like our understanding of sciences is never complete, neither is the characters' understanding of warrens. The most succinct but helpful explanation I can give without spoiling future revelations is that a warren is like a nexus of power aligned with some force or idea (light, fire, illusions, death, etc). Mages draw their power from one or more of these warrens. Yes, one of the powers you can use a warren for is to travel through it (it manifests as a physical world, it's possible for people to live within warrens).
2) Yes, Malazan armies have mage cadres, which are groups of mid-level mages who work together to provide the army with magic capabilities. Mages in the mage cadre are separate from High Mages like Tayschrenn, who are very powerful, much more rare, and tend to work alone, and are also separate from squad mages like Quick Ben who work within a single squad of marines as a unit.
3) The first scene with Tattersail and Hairlock takes place after the attack on the flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. Hairlock is just a normal human, he is cut in half during the flashback to the battle scene, which is why he has no legs during the first scene you meet him in.
4) They are completely different people, but they are allies in this war. Caladan Brood is the warlord leading an army far to north of Pale (the scene of the battle against Moon's Spawn). Anomander Rake is the lord of Moon's Spawn, who singlehandedly fights against the Malazan army at Pale.
5) I can't remember Dujek's age, but humans in Malazan live longer than humans in our world. IIRC it has something to do with warrens.
Thanks for your speedy reply it really sure does clear out some of the confusion. Just one more question though! + Show Spoiler + Who exactly was fighting the group of the 3 High Mages, Tayschrenn, Tattersail, Hairlock. and Calot? Was it a conjured monster or was it who they believed was a Tiste Andii?
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Thanks for recommending this series guys, just bought the first 3 books off amazon. I want to, but at the same time, don't want to read the game of throne books because it'll spoil the tv show for me (lol).
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Just ordered the last book on Amazon, can't wait to finish the series. Definitely a series worth reading.
The book always remains interesting and there are very few slow parts; however, he does introduce a lot of new characters. Dust of Dreams is definitely an interesting/intense book, but when you finish it, keep in mind that it's really only half of a book, with The Crippled God being the other one.
This is probably my third favorite fantasy series behind Song of Ice and Fire and KingKiller Chronicles.
On June 30 2011 08:21 EAGER-beaver wrote: Thanks for recommending this series guys, just bought the first 3 books off amazon. I want to, but at the same time, don't want to read the game of throne books because it'll spoil the tv show for me (lol).
Read the books, TV show pales in comparison.
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On June 30 2011 08:15 zZygote wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 07:51 GGQ wrote:On June 30 2011 07:26 zZygote wrote:On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess. Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler + 1) What the hell is a warren? I think it's some kind of dimensional hole or a rift in time which can be used for transportation? But it can also be used to conjur magic?
2) Cadre = a group of magii?
3) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
4) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
5) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
Thanks if you can answer the above + Show Spoiler + 1) This is never laid out clearly. There are many explanations given, none of them are complete. Just like our understanding of sciences is never complete, neither is the characters' understanding of warrens. The most succinct but helpful explanation I can give without spoiling future revelations is that a warren is like a nexus of power aligned with some force or idea (light, fire, illusions, death, etc). Mages draw their power from one or more of these warrens. Yes, one of the powers you can use a warren for is to travel through it (it manifests as a physical world, it's possible for people to live within warrens).
2) Yes, Malazan armies have mage cadres, which are groups of mid-level mages who work together to provide the army with magic capabilities. Mages in the mage cadre are separate from High Mages like Tayschrenn, who are very powerful, much more rare, and tend to work alone, and are also separate from squad mages like Quick Ben who work within a single squad of marines as a unit.
3) The first scene with Tattersail and Hairlock takes place after the attack on the flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. Hairlock is just a normal human, he is cut in half during the flashback to the battle scene, which is why he has no legs during the first scene you meet him in.
4) They are completely different people, but they are allies in this war. Caladan Brood is the warlord leading an army far to north of Pale (the scene of the battle against Moon's Spawn). Anomander Rake is the lord of Moon's Spawn, who singlehandedly fights against the Malazan army at Pale.
5) I can't remember Dujek's age, but humans in Malazan live longer than humans in our world. IIRC it has something to do with warrens.
Thanks for your speedy reply it really sure does clear out some of the confusion. Just one more question though! + Show Spoiler + Who exactly was fighting the group of the 3 High Mages, Tayschrenn, Tattersail, Hairlock. and Calot? Was it a conjured monster or was it who they believed was a Tiste Andii?
+ Show Spoiler +Well, things like this are actually plot features. Part of the confusion arises from the fact that the point-of-view characters are mostly ground-level people who don't always know everything that's going on. The battle was, at least according to appearances, the Malazan army (in particular the mages that you listed) against Anomander Rake (ruler of the Tiste Andii). Like you said, at one point a creature is magically summoned and attacks the Malazan High Mages. The obvious assumption would be that Anomander Rake must have summoned it to help him. However, as Hairlock has already hinted at that point, he believes that Tayschrenn betrayed the others and used the confusion of the battle to kill the other Malazan mages for mysterious, nefarious reasons. Tattersail, through whose eyes we see this part of the story, is torn on whether or not she believes this.
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I absolutely love this series probably the best books I've ever read. I am already have way through the series on my second read through
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Sounds cool, gonna download some of the books onto my Kindle and check them out. Thanks!
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Having just finished my 3 week marathon of devouring this series of books, I can only say "I WANT MORE". Seriously, I laughed, cried and was consumed in my own thoughts. I will be sorely tested in my patience to await his next series.
Also does anyone know any similar books/series that I can take up?
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England2652 Posts
The first book is fantastic. I started reading it about two days before holiday and I've been desperate to read it the whole time I was away. I'll have to take a break before reading the rest (too many other books) but I will definitely be reading more of these. I don't know what the OP was thinking suggesting skipping the first book.
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