Greetings TeamLiquid! I thought with all the hype and fuss about Game of Thrones, and the resultant upsurge in George R R Martin's book sales, it might be a good time to start a thread about another great fantasy series, the Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. It kinda suprised me that there was no thread about this series on TL, as it's got a pretty huge following (second only to A Song of Ice and Fire, if I'm not mistaken). Personally, ASoIaF was my favourite book series ever - that is, until I read some Malazan!
Some intro about the books: The Malazan Book of the Fallen is a grand, epic, dark military fantasy series. It follows the movements and actions of numerous armies across several continents, each continent embroiled in several wars. Within the confines of the genre, Erikson philosophically opposes Martin - where in Martin's work, magic is downplayed and the plot largely advances through human plots and plans, Erikson's universe emphasizes magic to the extreme. There is a whole ever-shifting pantheon of gods and demigods, and incredibly powerful mages and warriors each with their own agenda. This creates really dramatic, epic scenes as whole cities and continents are caught up in the powerplays of the mighty.
Erikson's work is, in my opinion, most distinguished by its tone. The series consists of the darkest, grimmest books I have ever read. Again opposing Martin, who zooms in on his different characters and is more concerned about their detailed comings and goings than an overarching philosophy, Erikson embraces the "big picture" - his style is much more thematic. His characters are often seen waxing philosophical, and it is a stylistic mark of the series that Erikson's opinion on the nature of heroism and sacrifice comes across through several characters who serve as his mouthpiece. Erikson (and his characters) relentlessly seek "ultimate truths", and constantly judge the actions of others within the series. The truths arrived at are almost always dark and painful, a reflection of how broken reality is. This creates a moody atmospherical backdrop which accentuates heroic acts and epic moments when they happen in the books. It also creates really memorable grim heroes when they follow and act on their philosophies. If A Song of Ice and Fire is a political soap opera, Malazan is a stage tragedy.
My recommendation for new readers is always to start with the second book of the series, Deadhouse Gates, then go back to read the first book and then complete the rest in sequence. This is because the first book is extremely confusing to get into; also it was written far before the others and is easily the weakest of the books.
Let's get some discussion going! Personally I'm in the middle of Dust of Dreams and can't wait to finish off the series. Unfortunately my reading is sort of set back because I simply can't remember who 80% of the characters are; it's been a long time since I've read the rest of the books, and Erikson really doesn't spell things out for you so a lot of his more subtle stuff can go over my head. I wish we had a wiki as awesome as the ASoIaF one just so I could catch up on the ridiculous number of characters.
For the fans: who's your favourite character? What's your favourite book in the series? etc. etc. (mine are Trull Sengar and Deadhouse Gates respectively).
Karsa's my second favourite! It's really weird because at first I really hated him and thought he was an idiot - except it turns out that's what everyone thinks he is. I love how it's slowly revealed that everyone (including myself) has severely underestimated him!
It's an enjoyable series, and I disagree with your advice about starting with the second book. While Deadhouse Gates is very good, Gardens of the Moon has some very strong characters and is far from the weakest in the series.
In fact, I came across this series years ago due to deciding to read A Song of Ice and Fire. I went to a library to pick up Game of Thrones, and picked up another book on impulse because it looked interesting. That book was Gardens of the Moon, and after reading a few pages it was sufficiently engaging that I actually put Game of Thrones aside and finished reading Gardens first.
I disagree that the first book is the weakest in the series. I liked it better than the last 4-5 books. But yeah, Deadhouse Gates is fantastic, as is Memories of Ice.
There are too many great characters, but Hood really takes the cake in the last book.
This series is so boss. Memories of Ice is fantastic, and so is Midnight Tides.
Karsa is a champ... one of my favorite characters, all he does is tear shit up haha.
Out of all the fantasy books and series that I've read (I've read alot. Alot alot. Alot alot alot.) Id say Malazan is in my #2 favorite series (With #1 being Wheel of Time).
Gardens is the weakest of the series, but still overall very welly done. I encourage everyone to give it a try... its fantastic.
I'm not reading any of the posts in this thread because I'm only on book 8, and I'm afraid of spoilers. That said, I love every one of the books so far. Everyone who likes fantasy should read these books. It's kind of hard to get started, but it is incredibly worth it.
loved the series too. got almost to the end of dust of dreams then waited for the crippled god cuz i heard it kinda followed it right after (in terms of the story). The last book is as epic as you could imagine.
My favorite book is the Bonehunters, no doubt, as for the characters there's several i like a lot. Erikson is so good at making you like/dislike some characters. Soo much choice for fave character.
EDIT who's that in the picture, Karsa? can't imagine any1 else's horse doing that. Except Fiddler's, but then that wasn't in combat.
Talking about Fiddler's horse biting a face off (in the second book), any1 think that same guy is horse-face, or whatever his name, in the sixth book? Roaming that city with the plague goddess and that hates horses because one bit his face off?
I have this on my list of books to read, finishing up the Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb at the moment. Definitely intend to check this out, glad to hear its well liked.
Love the series, finished The Crippled God as soon as I laid hands on it... The end was epic, and still made me want to strangle Erikson if only for the multitude of questions left unanswered. But it was a satisfying end to a very, very long journey
Great thread idea - love this series. Epic storytelling imo.
On a slight tangent there are some related books by Erikson's colleague Ian Cameron Esslemont. Between them created the world/history that the Malazan series is set in. They kind of divided up the areas they would write about. At this point Erikson has been more prolific.
Esslemont started out with Night of Knives which was ok but not on par with the Malazan books. However I'm re-reading his second book, Return of the Crimson Guard which is much, much better. I think he just needed to get into the swing of things. Picking up Stonewielder next which is set around the same time as the 10th and last Malazan book The Crippled God.
If you haven't read them and love epic fantasy or even Greek tragedies you should totally check them out. Awesome characters and heaps of macabre humour and brutal fights/wars.
On May 28 2011 13:38 hox wrote: Coltaine is probably my favorite character ever, followed by Crokus/Apsalar.
I've been stuck on Midnight Tides for awhile now. It feels so much less awesome than the previous 3 books D:
Wait till you've gotten through next couple of books after midnight tides. It's amazing how a couple of the books feel a wee bit disconnected while you are reading them. Then you read another 1-2 and it all becomes clear. There are so just many layers, characters and story threads across the series - definitely makes re-reads very pleasurable and rewarding!
You know the problem with this series is that it is great till book 4 or 5 then starts trickling with certain moments of splendour. Game of Thrones on the other hand slowly picks up, doesn't confuse too many issues and is decidedly less ambitious. But not uninteresting.
I just ordered The Crippled God. Want to read it, but Dust of dreams was just so hard to read unlike Fire and Ice book 1 that I just breezed through.
I picked this series up from the book store while browsing (mostly finding filler material to read before the release of the 5th book of song of ice and fire) at my local book store. The only qualm I have with this series is the style, since it has many vague segments involving minor support characters. I am still going through the first book, and I am beginning to see several of the main characters, but the story as a whole is still somewhat confusing since so many minor characters are given points of view.
EDIT who's that in the picture, Karsa? can't imagine any1 else's horse doing that. Except Fiddler's, but then that wasn't in combat.
The picture's labeled Itkovian so it's probably a MoI battle.
On May 28 2011 14:13 dignity wrote: I picked this series up from the book store while browsing (mostly finding filler material to read before the release of the 5th book of song of ice and fire) at my local book store. The only qualm I have with this series is the style, since it has many vague segments involving minor support characters. I am still going through the first book, and I am beginning to see several of the main characters, but the story as a whole is still somewhat confusing since so many minor characters are given points of view.
That's definitely a hallmark of the series. At this point in Dust of Dreams I have no idea who about 80% of the characters are! But I look forward to rereading the whole series and picking up all the bit I've missed. It's sort of a strength and a weakness.
Finally! I was hoping someone would make a decent thread about this! I've yet to encounter another series that's as epic as Malazan Book of the Fallen. The timescales alone make it epic. I mean the 300,000 year genocide against the Jaghut by the T'lan Imass is just banana-insane.
As for my favorite characters, Trull Sengar is a friggen beast... Karsa Orlong because his last name is similar to mine and his attitude is awesome, and Quickben is a boss lol.
As for a wiki for this series: http://encyclopediamalazica.pbworks.com/w/page/18881599/FrontPage I've been using it for a couple years now, and it's helped me a tonne for extra info and clarification on things I wasn't paying attention to. Worth a look for sure.
My biggest problem with the series is that the world isn't explained to the reader very well. I like fantasy worlds with some kind of consistent framework of rules supporting them so that things make sense, but in Malazan, every book just adds another magnitude of complexity on top of a seemingly random relationship between gods, magic, and regular people. It reads like Erikson was just making shit up as he went along. I made it through the first four books and wasn't willing to go any further. The writing definitely had its moments, but there were too many rough edges for my liking.
On May 28 2011 15:26 ShadowDrgn wrote: My biggest problem with the series is that the world isn't explained to the reader very well. I like fantasy worlds with some kind of consistent framework of rules supporting them so that things make sense, but in Malazan, every book just adds another magnitude of complexity on top of a seemingly random relationship between gods, magic, and regular people. It reads like Erikson was just making shit up as he went along. I made it through the first four books and wasn't willing to go any further. The writing definitely had its moments, but there were too many rough edges for my liking.
This is pretty much the problem I am having with the series currently. I mean, I read a sidestory to this beforehand and thought the book was good when I finished it, but I still did not understand what the hell happened in the process of the story.
I started reading this in 2002 when I was like 14. Read up to Toll of Hounds, was severely disappointed by Bonehunters, could not get past 10th page of Toll of Hounds. Bear in mind this was a series I re-read every 12 months. =\
Far too many deus ex machinas. I'll finish it one day. From my experience, this series pinnacled at Memories of Ice. Bonehunters was so bad.
But nevertheless, I highly rate this series up to Midnight Tides. I hope Erikson's redeemed himself since BH.
Awesome series. My favorite books are 3 and 4. Kasra definitely my favorite character, he's very Conan-esque. I really recommend these books for people who liked Martin. I've found this series significantly darker and more disturbing than a Song of Ice and Fire. Children of the Dead Seed anyone?
edit: also, as someone mentioned earlier, Quick Ben is a boss
just started the crippled god a couple days ago, did a full reread starting this winter break so i would remember all the characters and only just finished since i had so little time haha.
definitely my favorite fantasy series, bar none.
heh nihoh bonehunters is my favorite of the series so far =P
This is most definitely one of my favorite series. I was a little annoyed and thrown off by the way you sort of get thrust into the world without any explanations but once I got used to it I found I really liked that the characters wouldn't randomly explain something because the reader 'needs' to know. I finished The Crippled God about two months ago and knowing me I'll end up rereading the whole series soon to try to understand everything in the early books that had me confused.
The world building style of Erikson is very D&D. The Malazan universe is a mish-mash jumble of deities, cultures, and places that do not combine in a very coherent or sensical manner. One does not get the feeling that the world arose organically, but that it was created during sessions of tabletop roleplaying by a bunch of D&D geeks, which indeed it was. Erikson took many elements of the Malazan world from his P&P RPG experiences. The resulting artificiality of the world dispels the suspension of disbelief crucial in enjoying fantasy. This is not helped by the enormous time spans, distances, and number of worlds that stretch credibility.
It's a fantasy series I would have enjoyed back in high school and before I discovered GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but I can't now.
On May 28 2011 15:52 SergioCQH wrote: The world building style of Erikson is very D&D. The Malazan universe is a mish-mash jumble of deities, cultures, and places that do not combine in a very coherent or sensical manner. One does not get the feeling that the world arose organically, but that it was created during sessions of tabletop roleplaying by a bunch of D&D geeks, which indeed it was. Erikson took many elements of the Malazan world from his P&P RPG experiences. The resulting artificiality of the world dispels the suspension of disbelief crucial in enjoying fantasy. This is not helped by the enormous time spans, distances, and number of worlds that stretch credibility.
It's a fantasy series I would have enjoyed back in high school and before I discovered GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but I can't now.
Myeah, this was pretty much my sentiment as well. I didn't want to post about it in this thread, but now that somebody else did I have to nod in agreement. =P
On May 28 2011 15:52 SergioCQH wrote: The world building style of Erikson is very D&D. The Malazan universe is a mish-mash jumble of deities, cultures, and places that do not combine in a very coherent or sensical manner. One does not get the feeling that the world arose organically, but that it was created during sessions of tabletop roleplaying by a bunch of D&D geeks, which indeed it was. Erikson took many elements of the Malazan world from his P&P RPG experiences. The resulting artificiality of the world dispels the suspension of disbelief crucial in enjoying fantasy. This is not helped by the enormous time spans, distances, and number of worlds that stretch credibility.
It's a fantasy series I would have enjoyed back in high school and before I discovered GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but I can't now.
I am the opposite. Read SoIaF first, then read malazan, and now i can't stand the forced "maturity" that grrm puts into his books when I try to reread. it panders to the lowest common denominator of readers and his plot is just not that riveting once you get over it. SoIaF feels much more high school-y to me.
I'm at the sixth...this is the best series I've ever fucking read. Erikson is practically a god
Midnight Tides was such a great novel. The worst thing about this series is that you can't enjoy all the characters at the same time. I've rarely seen such well described, distinct character personalities.
I have to force myself to stop reading during the exam period because I'd spend too much time reading that shit. Song of Ice and Fire had a much more 'realistic style' and I like it too. Erikson is hardcore fantasy with magic and parallel universes and it doesn't work for everybody but I enjoy it a lot. I find it really relaxing, especially when I read it high.
I read the first book once. It made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Random stuff just kept happening without any explanation and after I finished the first book I had no idea what it was actually about. Random monsters just popping up and then dying to other random stuff that pops up again and random gods interfere for no reason whatsoever. The entire magic system didn't make a lick of sense either and seemed to be used mainly to provide a nice deus ex machina whenever the writer needed one
The thing is...I still kinda liked the overall idea. The setting had some cool stuff in it and I liked the writing style so I reread the first book. Still didn't make any sense, but at least I had some vague outline of the plot now. Then bought the 2nd book and it was even worse then the first in terms of random stuff just plopping up everywhere and blatant deus ex everywhere. One part that still stands out in my mind is when there is a big battle and they are heavily outnumbered. Then it just so happens that the battleground was a battleground in some ancient war and it just happens that some mage can summon those dead soldiers to fight for them and they win the day. Then there is a 2nd plotline about...Icarium or something who is looking for the House of Azaz (or something). I read that entire plotline twice and still hadn't the slighest clue what the hell it was all about.
I gave up on the series shortly after and would not recommend anyone reading it tbh
Since you said A Song of Ice and Fire was the most popular I just have to point out that I'm almost 100% that Dragonlance is currently the biggest series out there. Well at least in the extremely nerdy fantasy scene anyway. Can't be certain on sales numbers.
On May 28 2011 16:34 Steel wrote: I'm at the sixth...this is the best series I've ever fucking read. Erikson is practically a god
Midnight Tides was such a great novel. The worst thing about this series is that you can't enjoy all the characters at the same time. I've rarely seen such well described, distinct character personalities.
I have to force myself to stop reading during the exam period because I'd spend too much time reading that shit. Song of Ice and Fire had a much more 'realistic style' and I like it too. Erikson is hardcore fantasy with magic and parallel universes and it doesn't work for everybody but I enjoy it a lot. I find it really relaxing, especially when I read it high.
I'm gonna read some now
Seriously, I can't think of any other series where I just straight up like and admire so many characters as in Malazan. The heroes are so well crafted.
On May 28 2011 16:41 Lann555 wrote: The entire magic system didn't make a lick of sense either and seemed to be used mainly to provide a nice deus ex machina whenever the writer needed one
The magic system is that there are "warrens" which are kind of parallel universes (they actually exist in an Elder God's blood) which can be tapped to do spells etc. Mages can also warp into these warrens to cross distances. Yes, everything seems like deus ex machina but you have to realize Erikson is flipping that on its head - the real conflict is between the different gods and emperors who are puppeteering the armies. Their motivations take several books to come into focus.
On May 28 2011 15:52 SergioCQH wrote: The world building style of Erikson is very D&D. The Malazan universe is a mish-mash jumble of deities, cultures, and places that do not combine in a very coherent or sensical manner. One does not get the feeling that the world arose organically, but that it was created during sessions of tabletop roleplaying by a bunch of D&D geeks, which indeed it was. Erikson took many elements of the Malazan world from his P&P RPG experiences. The resulting artificiality of the world dispels the suspension of disbelief crucial in enjoying fantasy. This is not helped by the enormous time spans, distances, and number of worlds that stretch credibility.
It's a fantasy series I would have enjoyed back in high school and before I discovered GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but I can't now.
I am the opposite. Read SoIaF first, then read malazan, and now i can't stand the forced "maturity" that grrm puts into his books when I try to reread. it panders to the lowest common denominator of readers and his plot is just not that riveting once you get over it. SoIaF feels much more high school-y to me.
I am the opposite. Read ASoIaF first, then read Malazan and couldn't stand how it reminded me of the geeks in my high school poring over their D&D Monster Manuals. I can't stand the random uber-powerful deities, demi-gods, and indestructible heroes that Erikson crams into his books. It panders to the lowest common denominator of fantasy readers who want huge battles, fiery magical spells, and glowy swords and his plot is just plain non-sensical once you're finally bored enough to read it. Malazan feels exactly like high school to me. See how that reads?
Why don't you try making reasoned statements instead of making veiled potshots at other people?
Of course, there can be multiple valid points of view. But one cannot deny that Erikson's world building is definitely quantity over quality. One of the pantheons in the Malazan books is based on playing cards for crying out loud. What kind of fantasy world has gods that correspond to modern playing cards? It's the kind of world building that just uppercuts you right out of any immersion you might have had in the story.
And this is really my only point. I don't have a strong opinion on Erikson's ability to tell a story or write good characters. It's his world building and that alone that keeps from being able to enjoy the Malazan series.
On May 28 2011 17:00 SergioCQH wrote: Of course, there can be multiple valid points of view. But one cannot deny that Erikson's world building is definitely quantity over quality. One of the pantheons in the Malazan books is based on playing cards for crying out loud. What kind of fantasy world has gods that correspond to modern playing cards? It's the kind of world building that just uppercuts you right out of any immersion you might have had in the story.
And this is really my only point. I don't have a strong opinion on Erikson's ability to tell a story or write good characters. It's his world building and that alone that keeps from being able to enjoy the Malazan series.
I think the cards are awesome.
For the readers who don't know what they are - different gods and heroes are divided into Houses (e.g. High House Death, High House Life etc) that correspond to the different warrens they use. These cards can be read by skilled individuals a la tarot, which sort of prophecies what happens later on depending which card from which House hits the table.
I personally loved when different characters assumed others' roles and usurped their positions within the Deck of Dragons.
I love this series, definitely one of my favourite fantasy series.
On May 28 2011 15:26 ShadowDrgn wrote: My biggest problem with the series is that the world isn't explained to the reader very well. I like fantasy worlds with some kind of consistent framework of rules supporting them so that things make sense, but in Malazan, every book just adds another magnitude of complexity on top of a seemingly random relationship between gods, magic, and regular people. It reads like Erikson was just making shit up as he went along. I made it through the first four books and wasn't willing to go any further. The writing definitely had its moments, but there were too many rough edges for my liking.
That's exactly what I like about this, layers of mystery, a feeling of great antiquity. Often series start off giving you a sense of a whole world to explore and learn about, but by the end everything is *too* explained imo, trivializes things, you lose your sense of wonder about the world.
On May 28 2011 17:14 Bagi wrote: I've been meaning to start reading this series so many times now. Just can't find the books anywhere besides ordering online.
if you're ordering online i suggest the book depository, free shipping to a lot of the world. used them myself for dust of dreams with no complaints whatsoever
I'm almost done with Toll the Hounds, but I've been reading it slower and slower.
In general I like some of the quirks of Eriksson's writing, but I have tired of the way every single character and every single segment in every single chapter begins with a few pages or paragraphs of random philosophical ramblings. At some point I just need some action to happen, not to hear every single character's viewpoints on life/death, light/shadow/dark, good/evil, justice, or whatever other metaphysical item happens to be the topic of the day.
The annoying thing is I actually like the way he writes many of these segments, but when they come over and over I just get bored and want to skip it to get to the part where something happens. This seems to be more a problem with the later books, as he was quite a bit more judicious in his pacing in the earlier stories.
Overall I have to say I'm a fan. Some of the deus ex machina stuff can be a bit grating, but I like having an actual fantasy setting that's as dark as this one, as opposed to George RR Martin's more realistic world or some other more fantastical settings like Wheel of Time where things are more black and white.
There are lots of things to like in the Malazan world, but some issues too. If you love fantasy, though, you definitely need to give it a shot.
On May 26 2011 18:58 snotboogie wrote: Personally, ASoIaF was my favourite book series ever - that is, until I read some Malazan!
This. Also, they could never, ever make aTotMBotF into a TV series or films.
Yeah, if they are up against budget constraints for Game of Thrones, there's no way any movie or series will be produced for Malazan - way too much special effects needed. But I kinda like it this way, it stays as epic as possible in my mind.
On May 26 2011 18:58 snotboogie wrote: My recommendation for new readers is always to start with the second book of the series, Deadhouse Gates, then go back to read the first book and then complete the rest in sequence. This is because the first book is extremely confusing to get into; also it was written far before the others and is easily the weakest of the books.
Fuck, had i only known that before :D I started with the first book and i havent finished it yet because often i understand absolutely nothing of what is going on and it kinda has its lengths.
On May 26 2011 18:58 snotboogie wrote: Personally, ASoIaF was my favourite book series ever - that is, until I read some Malazan!
This. Also, they could never, ever make aTotMBotF into a TV series or films.
Yeah, if they are up against budget constraints for Game of Thrones, there's no way any movie or series will be produced for Malazan - way too much special effects needed. But I kinda like it this way, it stays as epic as possible in my mind.
If they ever tried to make the Malazan books into TV series, no matter how much money they have, they will never be able to capture and accurately remake the full scope of emotions, epicness and all of the different characters philosophies.
On May 28 2011 15:52 SergioCQH wrote: The world building style of Erikson is very D&D. The Malazan universe is a mish-mash jumble of deities, cultures, and places that do not combine in a very coherent or sensical manner. One does not get the feeling that the world arose organically, but that it was created during sessions of tabletop roleplaying by a bunch of D&D geeks, which indeed it was. Erikson took many elements of the Malazan world from his P&P RPG experiences. The resulting artificiality of the world dispels the suspension of disbelief crucial in enjoying fantasy. This is not helped by the enormous time spans, distances, and number of worlds that stretch credibility.
It's a fantasy series I would have enjoyed back in high school and before I discovered GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire, but I can't now.
I am the opposite. Read SoIaF first, then read malazan, and now i can't stand the forced "maturity" that grrm puts into his books when I try to reread. it panders to the lowest common denominator of readers and his plot is just not that riveting once you get over it. SoIaF feels much more high school-y to me.
I am the opposite. Read ASoIaF first, then read Malazan and couldn't stand how it reminded me of the geeks in my high school poring over their D&D Monster Manuals. I can't stand the random uber-powerful deities, demi-gods, and indestructible heroes that Erikson crams into his books. It panders to the lowest common denominator of fantasy readers who want huge battles, fiery magical spells, and glowy swords and his plot is just plain non-sensical once you're finally bored enough to read it. Malazan feels exactly like high school to me. See how that reads?
Why don't you try making reasoned statements instead of making veiled potshots at other people?
For me it was about the characters and the themes; and the writing style in which they were delivered. They made me think and they made me question my world views. The various plot-lines were there incidentally; as a requirement to progress the story (although some of those plot-lines were very interesting also.)
I definitely agree with some of the peoples sentiments here with regards to the first book being very hard to read, but there was a moment in the first few pages where I saw a spark, a glimmer, that shone and told me that this series was worth it. Son, I was not disappoint.
Quon Tali, Seven Cities and Genebackis all felt part of the same complete Universe. I love reading about Darujhistan and the blue flames that illuminate it at night, about Anomander Rake, about the history of his sword, and all the blilion bits of Lore that come with it, Envy, Spite, etc etc etc.
At Midnight Tides when your thrown into Lether, I couldn't help but be a little bit put off. So Erikson's telling me there's a whole other big-ass Empire out there and they've never crossed paths with the Malazan ever? (Obviously I find out later that Lether's basically in a sort of stasis but still it was an annoying feeling, especially when realistically someone can basically jsut walk into the continent. Was that a spoiler?)
And don't get me started on Ganoes Paran going round, thinking with Portals, killing Gods with his Portal Gun through the use of little clauses. Deus Ex Machina to the max, that point in the series.
I understand most people on this thread are biased, but Erikson is half the writer of Martin. the series aren't even close in terms of quality. Erikson's story feels rushed and made up on the spot, while Martin's story is smooth and seamless. I enjoyed both series, but I feel as if this thread is unjustly overhyping Erikson leading a lot of new readers to be dissapointed.
Erikson is like your drunk friend who tells a story then makes up details to answer your questions about the story. Erikson would be like the writer for Bleach making up powerups for Ichigo whenever he realized he wrote himself into a corner. Martin is the writer of One Piece which has a great storyline that is consistent from beginning to end and makes everything have a purpose.
On May 28 2011 21:12 PrideNeverDie wrote: I understand most people on this thread are biased, but Erikson is half the writer of Martin. the series aren't even close in terms of quality. Erikson's story feels rushed and made up on the spot, while Martin's story is smooth and seamless. I enjoyed both series, but I feel as if this thread is unjustly overhyping Erikson leading a lot of new readers to be dissapointed.
Erikson is like your drunk friend who tells a story then makes up details to answer your questions about the story. Erikson would be like the writer for Bleach making up powerups for Ichigo whenever he realized he wrote himself into a corner. Martin is the writer of One Piece which has a great storyline that is consistent from beginning to end and makes everything have a purpose.
One Piece to Bleach is the perfect comparison.
Another thing with Martin is that his plots are character driven, it's carried forward by the relationships between the characters, the interaction between characters, rarely is it a Boss fight, or a Deus Ex Machina. Jamie losing his hand might be an example of this. In Erikson it always comes down to... Anomander vs XXX, Apsalar shadowdancing a 1000 enemies, some Jaghut casting Frost Nova across a continent, some random mage in a Malazan army who's actually a High Mage in disguise along with incidentally 1000 other randoms in his company who happen to be all level 80 Warriors.
Don't get me wrong, Erikson has his strengths. His background in Archaeology make his world's history at the very least, some of the most strongest and compelling in the field. But Martin matches him up with that I'd say. Even though that is, they are very different styles of Fantasy. And probably the only two I will own the complete set to. (No! Scratch that, I won't buy Esselmont if you threatened me with rape by gorilla)
Do we have to have a Martin vs Erikson argument in this thread? I think derailing this thread is something that none of use need to be involved in. This thread is about Steven Erikson and his works, not who is better in the fantasy world.
On May 28 2011 21:55 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote: Do we have to have a Martin vs Erikson argument in this thread? I think derailing this thread is something that none of use need to be involved in. This thread is about Steven Erikson and his works, not who is better in the fantasy world.
rereading my original post it does seem like i'm turning this into a Martin vs. Erikson argument and that Martin is way superior. however that is not true at all, I do enjoy the epic boss fight style of Erikson. the only reason I brought it up is because the OP of this thread is trying to attract the new fantasy readers who got into the genre because of Martin to read Erikson. I just wanted to bring up valid differences about their writing style so the new readers have a better expectation of the series.
The reason Martin appeals to so many new fantasy readers is due to the fact that he is very character driven and his world is very structured and realistic. Fans of this style of writing might not enjoy Erikson's style. Erikson is like a flashy summer blockbuster directed by Michael Bay and Martin is an epic saga like Star Wars IV, V, and VI. if you are easily amused by lights and special effects, then you will enjoy Erikson. if you enjoy a great storyline and ask a lot of questions about plots, then Erikson will make you dissapointed.
On May 28 2011 21:12 PrideNeverDie wrote: I understand most people on this thread are biased, but Erikson is half the writer of Martin. the series aren't even close in terms of quality. Erikson's story feels rushed and made up on the spot, while Martin's story is smooth and seamless. I enjoyed both series, but I feel as if this thread is unjustly overhyping Erikson leading a lot of new readers to be dissapointed.
Erikson is like your drunk friend who tells a story then makes up details to answer your questions about the story. Erikson would be like the writer for Bleach making up powerups for Ichigo whenever he realized he wrote himself into a corner. Martin is the writer of One Piece which has a great storyline that is consistent from beginning to end and makes everything have a purpose.
"unjustly overhyping Erikson"
They are books. Minimal to no investment is required, if they don't like it they can stop reading it. You can read more than one series in your lifetime you know. You can even like more than one.
Erikson certainly doesn't make it up on the spot when he has literally millions of years of history for his world. It is absurdly large and well thought out.
If you can't appreciate what Erikson does I think it's just straight up over your head. No offence but the plot is so ridiculously intertwined it borders on mad genius half the time. There's just no understanding people who aren't constantly amazed at what Erikson can do from a world building perspective and his ability to juggle plot threads.
I don't know how you can say Martin's story is smooth and seamless when 7 years go by between books because he has completely lost the plot himself. There's weak parts about both series, neither of them are the greatest writers in the world, and you should be reading every recent author who is doing interesting things with the genre like Abercromie, Bakker, Gaimen, Erikson, Martin, etc. Not trying to dissuade people from reading something because you didn't get it.
Not trying to say you're stupid or anything because the Malazan series went over your head, Erikson doesn't try at all to help people understand the series, it requires a pretty significant investment from the reader. But there's like 18 threads about Ice and Fire, what makes you think you need to shit all over this one?
On May 28 2011 21:55 HuskyMUDKIPZ wrote: Do we have to have a Martin vs Erikson argument in this thread? I think derailing this thread is something that none of use need to be involved in. This thread is about Steven Erikson and his works, not who is better in the fantasy world.
rereading my original post it does seem like i'm turning this into a Martin vs. Erikson argument and that Martin is way superior. however that is not true at all, I do enjoy the epic boss fight style of Erikson. the only reason I brought it up is because the OP of this thread is trying to attract the new fantasy readers who got into the genre because of Martin to read Erikson. I just wanted to bring up valid differences about their writing style so the new readers have a better expectation of the series.
The reason Martin appeals to so many new fantasy readers is due to the fact that he is very character driven and his world is very structured and realistic. Fans of this style of writing might not enjoy Erikson's style. Erikson is like a flashy summer blockbuster directed by Michael Bay and Martin is an epic saga like Star Wars IV, V, and VI. if you are easily amused by lights and special effects, then you will enjoy Erikson. if you enjoy a great storyline and ask a lot of questions about plots, then Erikson will make you dissapointed.
And yet again you shit on Erikson, this is not the thread for that. This thread is introducing people to a series that they may not have read before. Also, applying a blanket statement like "if you enjoy a great storyline and ask a lot of questions about plots, then Erikson will make you dissapointed" makes me think that either a) you didn't read the series past book one, or b) you didn't understand the series.
Books 1,2,3,5 are awesome, reapers gale and bonehunters quite okay with bonehunters beeing better. Toll the Hounds sucks balls. My fav char. are Quick Ben and Kruppe, also like the Trygalle trade gilde or however it is called. I like the different ways how magic works in Erikson's world.
I read the first two books and I didn't really like them; it's kinda hard to describe why. There are a lot of characters, but so does ASOIF.
I think it boils down to the world building; Erikson doesn't really explain anything. I don't think Warrens were explained at all, you have to piece things together which amounts almost to nothing. He basically just throws all the different races in there and it's just confusing.
He not very good at making you feel engaged in the events that are happening. In the second book there's a big war and lots of people dying, but I just didn't care at all. + Show Spoiler +
Man I hated the ending. The assassin spent the entire book trying to kill the queen, and decides not to when she said don't.
My favourite books are Midnight Tides and Gardens of the Moon simply because they feel the most focused. My favourite character by far is Udinaas, I also really like Icarium/Mappo. I feel like I'm forgetting a couple of characters that I really like as well, but oh well.
On May 29 2011 03:05 GGQ wrote: My favourite books are Midnight Tides and Gardens of the Moon simply because they feel the most focused. My favourite character by far is Udinaas, I also really like Icarium/Mappo. I feel like I'm forgetting a couple of characters that I really like as well, but oh well.
There's tons of characters I like, there's more than a few I don't as well. I have never been a fan of Kruppe even though tons of people like him.
I really like Midnight Tides too, most people complain because it's a whole new cast, and they see the Letherii Empire as some sort of allegorical device for anti capitalism or something. I've never understood that, it's just too ridiculous and ham fisted to be any kind of criticism of the world we live in.
There's tons to like about MT. Erikson hit his stride as far as comic relief goes with Tehol/Bugg, which I find he completely misses with other relief characters. Trull is awesome, actually I like all the Sengar brothers, I even like Hannan Mosag.
On May 29 2011 03:03 Chaoz wrote: I read the first two books and I didn't really like them; it's kinda hard to describe why. There are a lot of characters, but so does ASOIF.
I think it boils down to the world building; Erikson doesn't really explain anything. I don't think Warrens were explained at all, you have to piece things together which amounts almost to nothing. He basically just throws all the different races in there and it's just confusing.
He not very good at making you feel engaged in the events that are happening. In the second book there's a big war and lots of people dying, but I just didn't care at all. + Show Spoiler +
Man I hated the ending. The assassin spent the entire book trying to kill the queen, and decides not to when she said don't.
Warrens aren't really explained ever. I think the best explanation of how people in their world manipulate them to use 'magic' is given by the mage character in book 2 who's name I completely forget. There's enough throughout the books that you can piece it all together though and form a decent understanding of how the warrens work.
As far as not caring, I completely quit the series halfway through book 3, decided they weren't as good as the college friend who reccomended them only to end up picking it up a year later and ended up devouring the rest of the series. I don't know what specifically made it all click for me but something did in a big way
I like a LOT of things about this series. Midnight Tides is still one of my favorite books. The first 5 books are incredible. (Midnight Tides I've always thought the logical starting point - it functions well as a stand alone novel and is a prequel to the prior 4 books despite being the fifth book and offers the only actual explanation of the Warrens and the Holds). The world building, magic system, cards, gods, etc. are all intuitive and creative. It honestly seems like a really wonderful tabletop system, which is apparently where it originated from.
But... after that, I have issues recommending the series to anyone outside of diehard fantasy fans.
The last five have lots of flashes of brilliance (some more than others - Reaper's Gale is good as a whole, Bonehunters is decent but paced really weirdly). However there are some really boring parts - book 8 I found entirely unreadable until I started skipping the section about the child.
The Crippled God especially was a large disappointment. Even The Bonehunters is better overall, I think. (And Dust of Dreams they start to abandon archetypal traits of characters, then go out of their way to point out just how weird it is that they're breaking character. That doesn't even make sense, Quick Ben suddenly decides that force is the way to go and stops using illusion magic - with no real justification given. When you build up that a character acts in a specific way for 7000 pages, you should give at least some kind of a reason for them randomly breaking character. It's almost to the point that some of the characters feel like one dimensional parodies of their earlier selves.
(Also, there are an absurdly large amount of chronological issues for something that was planned over the course of 30 years - someone goes from being pregnant in one book to having an 8 year old child 3 books later, when they haven't been visited in between and there's no indication to anyone else that more than a month has passed. )
(I guess the issue with the books is that if I had to rank them, the last 5 would all be in the bottom five, with the final 3 being the bottom three) : Midnight Tides (5) Memories of Ice (3) Deadhouse Gates (2) Gardens of the Moon (1) House of Chains (4) Reaper's Gale (7) Bonehunters (6) The Crippled God (10) Dust of Dreams (9) ***huge drop in quality***** Toll the Hounds (8)
Has anyone read ICE's work? I've only read Night of Knives. I heard his later malaz books were just kind of ok and skipped out on them, but that they had potential.
On May 28 2011 15:42 nihoh wrote: I started reading this in 2002 when I was like 14. Read up to Toll of Hounds, was severely disappointed by Bonehunters, could not get past 10th page of Toll of Hounds. Bear in mind this was a series I re-read every 12 months. =\
Far too many deus ex machinas. I'll finish it one day. From my experience, this series pinnacled at Memories of Ice. Bonehunters was so bad.
But nevertheless, I highly rate this series up to Midnight Tides. I hope Erikson's redeemed himself since BH.
Reaper's Gale is better. Everything else is worse. By a lot.
I love Martin, but Erikson is definitely on a different level when it comes to depth, scale and just plain awesomeness. I'm just starting on the 10th book now and I'm kind of reluctant to finish it because it's the last one . You should definitely start with Gardens of the Moon. I remember not knowing what was going on for half the book when I read it at first, but I reread it only a short while ago and if you're more familiar with the series it's easy to follow. Just don't expect to understand everything in any of the books when you read through them the first time (or even 5th time).
I agree that the series got a little bit worse, I rank Bonehunters way higher though, it's one of my favorites just because it dealt with a lot of characters I like. 1-7 are awesome, 8 is alright, 9+10 struggles with the issue of having to put a cap something as big as the Malazan series but ultimately does a good job I think
It had an insane ending. The story of the killer/city guard was great too I thought. It had many problems for sure though. Cutter I have never liked, the kid was terrible and broke all sorts of continuity. Also the best part of his story went nowhere (at least not yet anyway, the broken Imass he gives legs to)
There was also Nimander and the group of tiste andii that are insufferable until the last book. Iskaral Pust I have never loved, The Redeemer I hated even though I loved Itkovian. There was a lot about the book I didn't like, I think I'd rate it the lowest too. But every sour note comes with something interesting too, lots of Kallor, Spinnock Durav, Traveller etc. I think it was a necessary transitional book to tie up some loose threads and set us up for the finale
On May 29 2011 06:08 floor exercise wrote: I agree that the series got a little bit worse, I rank Bonehunters way higher though, it's one of my favorites just because it dealt with a lot of characters I like. 1-7 are awesome, 8 is alright, 9+10 struggles with the issue of having to put a cap something as big as the Malazan series but ultimately does a good job I think
It had an insane ending. The story of the killer/city guard was great too I thought. It had many problems for sure though. Cutter I have never liked, the kid was terrible and broke all sorts of continuity. Also the best part of his story went nowhere (at least not yet anyway, the broken Imass he gives legs to)
There was also Nimander and the group of tiste andii that are insufferable until the last book. Iskaral Pust I have never loved, The Redeemer I hated even though I loved Itkovian. There was a lot about the book I didn't like, I think I'd rate it the lowest too. But every sour note comes with something interesting too, lots of Kallor, Spinnock Durav, Traveller etc. I think it was a necessary transitional book to tie up some loose threads and set us up for the finale
I can see an argument for Bonehunter's being higher. I personally just thought they were a lot weaker as characters than the original bridgeburners (I don't mean the major characters, but the supporting cast - fiddler is a minor character who gains prominence).
Toll the Hounds has about 200 pages that are incredible - it's such a shame that it's like 1000 pages long.
Toll of hounds is hard to say is good or bad. some parts of the game is just bad. Nimander and his fellow Andii bored me to death. but there are some really, really good parts too. The child that gets abducted- storyline is just heartbreaking. I literally cried when + Show Spoiler +
I bought the first one on the rec of people on here, and I have to second people who say it's confusing - I have pretty much no idea what the hell is going on, who the people are, what a warren is etc. Still slowly making my way through and might pick up the second one but as it stands, not the best I've read. Complicated doesn't necessarily mean good.
On May 29 2011 07:00 Sanctimonius wrote: I bought the first one on the rec of people on here, and I have to second people who say it's confusing - I have pretty much no idea what the hell is going on, who the people are, what a warren is etc. Still slowly making my way through and might pick up the second one but as it stands, not the best I've read. Complicated doesn't necessarily mean good.
edit: spelling
Stick with it, the first book starts a bit rough but once you get past that it's amazing.
Too much emphasis imo is being put on the authors obligation to explain everything to the reader - Erikson throws clues and details about the world, magic/belief system, and characters throughout the books. It's almost like aspects of the series are mysteries or 'who done its' - I found it really rewarding and enjoyable to not be spoon fed all of this. Sure it makes for some head scratching moments but that only made it more awesome when things clicked.
I believe it was always going to be a 10 book series so that also encourages the long view. There were parts of some books I liked less than others but I was still interested as you knew it fit into the broader story.
Funnily enough the zero to 100 miles an hour nature of the 1st book was what hooked me... it just made me super keen to learn more about these characters and stuff.
On May 29 2011 05:41 Nevuk wrote: I like a LOT of things about this series. Midnight Tides is still one of my favorite books. The first 5 books are incredible. (Midnight Tides I've always thought the logical starting point - it functions well as a stand alone novel and is a prequel to the prior 4 books despite being the fifth book and offers the only actual explanation of the Warrens and the Holds). The world building, magic system, cards, gods, etc. are all intuitive and creative. It honestly seems like a really wonderful tabletop system, which is apparently where it originated from.
But... after that, I have issues recommending the series to anyone outside of diehard fantasy fans.
The last five have lots of flashes of brilliance (some more than others - Reaper's Gale is good as a whole, Bonehunters is decent but paced really weirdly). However there are some really boring parts - book 8 I found entirely unreadable until I started skipping the section about the child.
The Crippled God especially was a large disappointment. Even The Bonehunters is better overall, I think. (And Dust of Dreams they start to abandon archetypal traits of characters, then go out of their way to point out just how weird it is that they're breaking character. That doesn't even make sense, Quick Ben suddenly decides that force is the way to go and stops using illusion magic - with no real justification given. When you build up that a character acts in a specific way for 7000 pages, you should give at least some kind of a reason for them randomly breaking character. It's almost to the point that some of the characters feel like one dimensional parodies of their earlier selves.
(Also, there are an absurdly large amount of chronological issues for something that was planned over the course of 30 years - someone goes from being pregnant in one book to having an 8 year old child 3 books later, when they haven't been visited in between and there's no indication to anyone else that more than a month has passed. )
(I guess the issue with the books is that if I had to rank them, the last 5 would all be in the bottom five, with the final 3 being the bottom three) : Midnight Tides (5) Memories of Ice (3) Deadhouse Gates (2) Gardens of the Moon (1) House of Chains (4) Reaper's Gale (7) Bonehunters (6) The Crippled God (10) Dust of Dreams (9) ***huge drop in quality***** Toll the Hounds (8)
Has anyone read ICE's work? I've only read Night of Knives. I heard his later malaz books were just kind of ok and skipped out on them, but that they had potential.
On May 28 2011 15:42 nihoh wrote: I started reading this in 2002 when I was like 14. Read up to Toll of Hounds, was severely disappointed by Bonehunters, could not get past 10th page of Toll of Hounds. Bear in mind this was a series I re-read every 12 months. =\
Far too many deus ex machinas. I'll finish it one day. From my experience, this series pinnacled at Memories of Ice. Bonehunters was so bad.
But nevertheless, I highly rate this series up to Midnight Tides. I hope Erikson's redeemed himself since BH.
Reaper's Gale is better. Everything else is worse. By a lot.
Ahaha my ratings are nearly the same as yours. MOI DH GOTM MT HOC BH Haven't exactly finished TTH to judge it. What pregnant lady? Is that Coltaine @@?
I think he might be talking about Hetan, and the problem there is that chronologically, the books jump around a fair amount. For instance, House of Chains takes place years before Gardens of the Moon, and then Midnight Tides takes place in between those two even though it's after them in the series.
I agree that the last few books weren't as good as the earlier ones; I particularly found The Crippled God to be a really unsatisfying ending; parts of it seemed to be contradictory to earlier books, and a lot of it felt rushed.
On May 29 2011 05:41 Nevuk wrote: I like a LOT of things about this series. Midnight Tides is still one of my favorite books. The first 5 books are incredible. (Midnight Tides I've always thought the logical starting point - it functions well as a stand alone novel and is a prequel to the prior 4 books despite being the fifth book and offers the only actual explanation of the Warrens and the Holds). The world building, magic system, cards, gods, etc. are all intuitive and creative. It honestly seems like a really wonderful tabletop system, which is apparently where it originated from.
But... after that, I have issues recommending the series to anyone outside of diehard fantasy fans.
The last five have lots of flashes of brilliance (some more than others - Reaper's Gale is good as a whole, Bonehunters is decent but paced really weirdly). However there are some really boring parts - book 8 I found entirely unreadable until I started skipping the section about the child.
The Crippled God especially was a large disappointment. Even The Bonehunters is better overall, I think. (And Dust of Dreams they start to abandon archetypal traits of characters, then go out of their way to point out just how weird it is that they're breaking character. That doesn't even make sense, Quick Ben suddenly decides that force is the way to go and stops using illusion magic - with no real justification given. When you build up that a character acts in a specific way for 7000 pages, you should give at least some kind of a reason for them randomly breaking character. It's almost to the point that some of the characters feel like one dimensional parodies of their earlier selves.
(Also, there are an absurdly large amount of chronological issues for something that was planned over the course of 30 years - someone goes from being pregnant in one book to having an 8 year old child 3 books later, when they haven't been visited in between and there's no indication to anyone else that more than a month has passed. )
(I guess the issue with the books is that if I had to rank them, the last 5 would all be in the bottom five, with the final 3 being the bottom three) : Midnight Tides (5) Memories of Ice (3) Deadhouse Gates (2) Gardens of the Moon (1) House of Chains (4) Reaper's Gale (7) Bonehunters (6) The Crippled God (10) Dust of Dreams (9) ***huge drop in quality***** Toll the Hounds (8)
Has anyone read ICE's work? I've only read Night of Knives. I heard his later malaz books were just kind of ok and skipped out on them, but that they had potential.
On May 28 2011 15:42 nihoh wrote: I started reading this in 2002 when I was like 14. Read up to Toll of Hounds, was severely disappointed by Bonehunters, could not get past 10th page of Toll of Hounds. Bear in mind this was a series I re-read every 12 months. =\
Far too many deus ex machinas. I'll finish it one day. From my experience, this series pinnacled at Memories of Ice. Bonehunters was so bad.
But nevertheless, I highly rate this series up to Midnight Tides. I hope Erikson's redeemed himself since BH.
Reaper's Gale is better. Everything else is worse. By a lot.
Ahaha my ratings are nearly the same as yours. MOI DH GOTM MT HOC BH Haven't exactly finished TTH to judge it. What pregnant lady? Is that Coltaine @@?
He means Stonny Menackis (the female caravan guard from book 3 with Gruntle and Harllo)
On May 29 2011 05:41 Nevuk wrote: I like a LOT of things about this series. Midnight Tides is still one of my favorite books. The first 5 books are incredible. (Midnight Tides I've always thought the logical starting point - it functions well as a stand alone novel and is a prequel to the prior 4 books despite being the fifth book and offers the only actual explanation of the Warrens and the Holds). The world building, magic system, cards, gods, etc. are all intuitive and creative. It honestly seems like a really wonderful tabletop system, which is apparently where it originated from.
But... after that, I have issues recommending the series to anyone outside of diehard fantasy fans.
The last five have lots of flashes of brilliance (some more than others - Reaper's Gale is good as a whole, Bonehunters is decent but paced really weirdly). However there are some really boring parts - book 8 I found entirely unreadable until I started skipping the section about the child.
The Crippled God especially was a large disappointment. Even The Bonehunters is better overall, I think. (And Dust of Dreams they start to abandon archetypal traits of characters, then go out of their way to point out just how weird it is that they're breaking character. That doesn't even make sense, Quick Ben suddenly decides that force is the way to go and stops using illusion magic - with no real justification given. When you build up that a character acts in a specific way for 7000 pages, you should give at least some kind of a reason for them randomly breaking character. It's almost to the point that some of the characters feel like one dimensional parodies of their earlier selves.
(Also, there are an absurdly large amount of chronological issues for something that was planned over the course of 30 years - someone goes from being pregnant in one book to having an 8 year old child 3 books later, when they haven't been visited in between and there's no indication to anyone else that more than a month has passed. )
(I guess the issue with the books is that if I had to rank them, the last 5 would all be in the bottom five, with the final 3 being the bottom three) : Midnight Tides (5) Memories of Ice (3) Deadhouse Gates (2) Gardens of the Moon (1) House of Chains (4) Reaper's Gale (7) Bonehunters (6) The Crippled God (10) Dust of Dreams (9) ***huge drop in quality***** Toll the Hounds (8)
Has anyone read ICE's work? I've only read Night of Knives. I heard his later malaz books were just kind of ok and skipped out on them, but that they had potential.
On May 28 2011 15:42 nihoh wrote: I started reading this in 2002 when I was like 14. Read up to Toll of Hounds, was severely disappointed by Bonehunters, could not get past 10th page of Toll of Hounds. Bear in mind this was a series I re-read every 12 months. =\
Far too many deus ex machinas. I'll finish it one day. From my experience, this series pinnacled at Memories of Ice. Bonehunters was so bad.
But nevertheless, I highly rate this series up to Midnight Tides. I hope Erikson's redeemed himself since BH.
Reaper's Gale is better. Everything else is worse. By a lot.
Ahaha my ratings are nearly the same as yours. MOI DH GOTM MT HOC BH Haven't exactly finished TTH to judge it. What pregnant lady? Is that Coltaine @@?
He means Stonny Menackis (the female caravan guard from book 3 with Gruntle and Harllo)
I am about half way through garden of the moon right now and I feel that the city side of the story is a lot more intuitive and makes a lot more sense than the empire side.
The empire sides just a complete mess to me and I have no idea whats going on besides some conspiracy involving 2 groups of people(?).
Also, I actually got introduced to this series through night of knives so that might be why I am so confused right now (Night of knives confused the hell out of me. I still don't get what happened besides the fact that it was a happy ending. I think.).
Tanks for this thread OP, just ordered the first book I was looking for a good fantasy series for quite some time but was a bit overwhelmed by the quantity the last time I was in the bookstore. But this sounds like the series I was searching for ^^
Not my Favorite series but has been pretty good once you get into it. Once he start understanding the world the Erikson is developing enjoying the books become a whole lot easier.
Right now I'm in the 4th book of the series, I have to say though the 3rd book "Memories of Ice" was pretty incredible
I've read all the 10 books plus the two or three books from Ian Cameron Esslemont wich is from the same universe. My favorite char is prolly Quick Ben. This is by far the best fantasy series ive ever read and i also read all the writtin books of game of thrones (he is still not finished with the series yet, prolly waiting until the tv series is done)
It is Itkovian in Memories of Ice. (Battle against the tenescowry).
My favorite book is either Memories of Ice, or The Crippled God, not entirely sure atm.
There is no way to pick a favorite character in amongst this series as there are just so so many of them. Tho to pick a few I would say, Trull, Hellian, Shurq, Fiddler, Karsa, and Tehol.
This series is hard to read if you take it with breaks, I read the entire series and all the books by Ian C. Esslemont (also a part of the malaz universe). In pretty much 7-8months, and that crops up to around 15-16 thousand pages, so it is a bit of a read.
And for a tip, if you do like the dark and gritty style, you will get even darker from the Series "The Black Company" by Glen Cook.
On May 30 2011 06:23 dignity wrote: Kingkiller trilogy is amazing so far. One of the better fantasy series for sure.
Kingkiller is an enjoyable read, but very simple in comparison with series like soiaf and malaz, they are not really comparable as Kingkiller follows the old standard of one powerful hero that faces good and bad characters.
Malaz does not have anything like that, it is much much darker, and much much grander (same goes for soiaf)
Kingkiller is more of a Harry Potter set in a fantasy world and is generally darker (and not a childrens book), but the similarities are uncanny.
On May 28 2011 13:20 Nidoa wrote: Talking about Fiddler's horse biting a face off (in the second book), any1 think that same guy is horse-face, or whatever his name, in the sixth book? Roaming that city with the plague goddess and that hates horses because one bit his face off?
Yes I noticed that as well, and im fairly sure it is the same, The entire series is full of small details like that.
Really, anyone who complains about this being confusing and never explaining anything just isn't capable of following the plot. No offense, but I'm about half way through gardens of the moon and I would say I have a pretty clear grasp of the characters and the motivations, as well as a clear enough understanding of the way that the magic and gods function in this world to get what's going on. It's not a detriment to have absolutely zero paragraphs/pages of blatant exposition. There was enough going on in the first 150 pages or so that I was motivated to continue and on the way picked up most of the information I needed to understand. As for the complaints about the cards... Tarot cards, anyone? That is entirely believable in a fantasy setting.
The same goes for the world. Yes, Erikson doesn't give you a clear map of the world and everyone/everything in it (well, he does actually give you a literal map, but you get what I mean), but he imparts a sense of massive scale and a sense of mystery that you just don't get with, say, Martin's work. One that note, I love both authors, but they have a completely different methods for telling a story.
I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment.
I've started reading Gardens of the Moon, and I'm not impressed.
If I had found this series when I was 15, I probably would have eaten it up in record time, but now the entire style and tone strike me as immature.
Reading this thread doesn't do much to encourage the rest of the series. Most of what I'm seeing is "Lots of magic, awweeesome!!", "Lots of gods and demigods, coool!", "Look at all the stuff happening, wow!".
I'm probably still going to ride it out, and I earnestly hope I end up liking it. There's 10 books in the series, and at the rate I take down books I need to keep fuel on the fire. Is there cause for hope, or is it all a context-less excretion of fantasy rope?
On May 31 2011 01:18 Rembot wrote: I've started reading Gardens of the Moon, and I'm not impressed.
If I had found this series when I was 15, I probably would have eaten it up in record time, but now the entire style and tone strike me as immature.
Reading this thread doesn't do much to encourage the rest of the series. Most of what I'm seeing is "Lots of magic, awweeesome!!", "Lots of gods and demigods, coool!", "Look at all the stuff happening, wow!".
I'm probably still going to ride it out, and I earnestly hope I end up liking it. There's 10 books in the series, and at the rate I take down books I need to keep fuel on the fire. Is there cause for hope, or is it all a context-less excretion of fantasy rope?
The first one was written 10 years before the others, so the style is a little different. They get better. At LEAST read two and three, some of the best novels ever written.
On May 30 2011 06:23 dignity wrote: Kingkiller trilogy is amazing so far. One of the better fantasy series for sure.
Kingkiller is an enjoyable read, but very simple in comparison with series like soiaf and malaz, they are not really comparable as Kingkiller follows the old standard of one powerful hero that faces good and bad characters.
Malaz does not have anything like that, it is much much darker, and much much grander (same goes for soiaf)
Kingkiller is more of a Harry Potter set in a fantasy world and is generally darker (and not a childrens book), but the similarities are uncanny.
(soiaf = Song of Ice and Fire = Game of Thrones)
You should read some Kingkiller discussion threads. The series has amazing depth if you notice the subtle things.
On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment.
Sill better than another Version of "The valiant young hero vanquishes the vicious villain". If I read one of those stories again I think I'm gonna die of boredom.
I haven't read a fantasy novel since 2003 (Deathly Hallows), but when I was younger, I ate that shit up.
Does anyone have nice recommendations for me?
I liked Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and a trillion billion German fantasies but other than that, I tend to read more classic stuff (especially German, once again).
Thanks for any tips!
P. s.: I tend to prefer audio books right now, since I can listen to them while working out.
€: I'd be thankful for any pms as well, since I'm likely to forget about this thread before long.
On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment.
Sill better than another Version of "The valiant young hero vanquishes the vicious villain". If I read one of those stories again I think I'm gonna die of boredom.
You should expand your range of books then. There are plenty of fantasy series out there that aren't bildungsromans. It's not saying much for the Malazan series if that was the first justification for it that came to mind.
On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment.
Sill better than another Version of "The valiant young hero vanquishes the vicious villain". If I read one of those stories again I think I'm gonna die of boredom.
You should expand your range of books then. There are plenty of fantasy series out there that aren't bildungsromans. It's not saying much for the Malazan series if that was the first justification for it that came to mind.
Well I wanted a gory stile, prevalent magic, and something where the tone is more important than character development. (and it certainly sounded like that I am not very far into the first book)
On May 31 2011 01:04 StorkHwaiting wrote: I can't stand Erikson. It's strange how masochistic some readers can be, where they'll literally pay for a book that can't stand on its own and then be happy that it took them reading three more books after it to finally "appreciate" the first one. That's horrible story-telling. There's a reason Erikson will never become mainstream literature, and it's not because he's high brow. It's because the average person isn't stupid enough to waste that much time to get their entertainment.
Really? What about the LOST series? The whole show was based upon not knowing shit, and discovering it in the end. That's kind of what the malazan books are, at least at first. The difference is as you learn more, more discoveries unfold and more storyline are brought to the surface. Something that appears briefly in the third book could have a huge impact on the ninth. It's just a very layered story and that's what's so awesome about it.
Can someone explain to me what a warren is? At first I thought it was a magical tunnel/realm that could be used to travel around and defied space/time and there were a bunch of different warrens based on the gods, houses, elder magic, etc. And then it became a weapon used by mages and stuff. But what actually is a warren?
On June 06 2011 07:39 NationInArms wrote: Can someone explain to me what a warren is? At first I thought it was a magical tunnel/realm that could be used to travel around and defied space/time and there were a bunch of different warrens based on the gods, houses, elder magic, etc. And then it became a weapon used by mages and stuff. But what actually is a warren?
It never really is explained but it can be seen as all of those subjects you have outlined. Lower quality mages, if I am correct, can access the power of their warren in some small way (Denul gives healing ability) while the boss ass mages can use it for travel/superawesomedamage.
If I remember my reading correctly, the warrens are actually similar to the veins of K'rul. Some dragons are also representations of different warrens
I don't have my books here with me, only have the last one, so I can't go back and site where/when I read this junk but I believe it is explored in the last few books.
Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
On June 06 2011 07:39 NationInArms wrote: Can someone explain to me what a warren is? At first I thought it was a magical tunnel/realm that could be used to travel around and defied space/time and there were a bunch of different warrens based on the gods, houses, elder magic, etc. And then it became a weapon used by mages and stuff. But what actually is a warren?
From my interpretation the Warrens are reality itself. That reality takes the form of many different 'warrens' which are the different 'space/time' areas of reality. Those who can access a Warrens power are basically accessing the very energy that it is.
Also, it was said in the books that Krul the elder God created the first Warrens with his own body and the warrens are now his blood and veins. Before that there was only the 'chaos' which lies between beyond and between the warrens. Basically the opposite of reality.
When the Warrens were first created beings spontaneously arose and started to influence the evolution of the warrens based on their beliefs and attitudes. This gave rise to the new houses and Gods which are basically an incarnation of that Warren.
The world that the main story takes place in would be a 'Warren' as well. The Tiste Andii could access its powers as well from their own Warren, Kurald Galain.
Although, thats just my interpretation. Its really hard to get the whole picture of what anything is in the series or the genesis of the world and its history because Erikson deliberately leaves it out. He once said that he wants the books not to be looked at like a story but as a history of the world and its people. Things are deliberately left foggy and unclear to get this effect because as we all know rarely are things in history clear cut and understandable.
A lot of people are dissatisfied at the books because of this. They'd rather have it all clear cut and easily understood. To me though it lends more of an epic feel. You take things at face value and slowly link them together until you see the bigger picture, which ends up being a truly epic one. That's really what makes his series fantastic for me: the fact that you can understand the story line and characters taking place in the book but simultaneously leaves a massive amount of information out that is filled in slowly over time from many different characters and story lines.
I made the mistake of jumping in on book 7 (not reading the front cover say "Book seven"), and dear god was I confused. However, the writing and the multiple storylines running concurrently is very enjoyable.
On June 28 2011 03:40 JinDesu wrote: I made the mistake of jumping in on book 7 (not reading the front cover say "Book seven"), and dear god was I confused. However, the writing and the multiple storylines running concurrently is very enjoyable.
I think each of the books are intended to be somewhat of a stand-alone story(for as far as that's possible) but I can imagine being totally lost when jumping in that far . There are many good points about this series but I think I love the characters and his humor the most. There are too many to all name but Karsa is just awesome, there's Tehol/Bugg, all of the crazy marines etc.
I first heard about the Malazan series four years ago and I forced myself through the first four books. I gave up on the fifth when it again started with complete new set of characters and on a different continent. It's not just the first book, Erikson never explains anything. No, I don't like being spoon fed information in a book, but It should have some structure. There were also tons of subplots, plot holes, and hints that that never got explained.. and I lost faith that they ever would be when each new book abandoned half the characters. The timeline was also a mess.
I will say Erikson has some pretty neat fantasy stuff going on his books. I just wish he was a better writer. My suggestion to anyone thinking about starting this series.. have a notepad handy, because you'll probably forget a lot of the subtle things about a book X character when he/she is finally reintroduced in book Y.
On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler +
1) Cadre = a group of magii?
2) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
3) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
4) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler +
1) What the hell is a warren? I think it's some kind of dimensional hole or a rift in time which can be used for transportation? But it can also be used to conjur magic?
2) Cadre = a group of magii?
3) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
4) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
5) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
1) This is never laid out clearly. There are many explanations given, none of them are complete. Just like our understanding of sciences is never complete, neither is the characters' understanding of warrens. The most succinct but helpful explanation I can give without spoiling future revelations is that a warren is like a nexus of power aligned with some force or idea (light, fire, illusions, death, etc). Mages draw their power from one or more of these warrens. Yes, one of the powers you can use a warren for is to travel through it (it manifests as a physical world, it's possible for people to live within warrens).
2) Yes, Malazan armies have mage cadres, which are groups of mid-level mages who work together to provide the army with magic capabilities. Mages in the mage cadre are separate from High Mages like Tayschrenn, who are very powerful, much more rare, and tend to work alone, and are also separate from squad mages like Quick Ben who work within a single squad of marines as a unit.
3) The first scene with Tattersail and Hairlock takes place after the attack on the flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. Hairlock is just a normal human, he is cut in half during the flashback to the battle scene, which is why he has no legs during the first scene you meet him in.
4) They are completely different people, but they are allies in this war. Caladan Brood is the warlord leading an army far to north of Pale (the scene of the battle against Moon's Spawn). Anomander Rake is the lord of Moon's Spawn, who singlehandedly fights against the Malazan army at Pale.
5) I can't remember Dujek's age, but humans in Malazan live longer than humans in our world. IIRC it has something to do with warrens.
On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler +
1) What the hell is a warren? I think it's some kind of dimensional hole or a rift in time which can be used for transportation? But it can also be used to conjur magic?
2) Cadre = a group of magii?
3) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
4) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
5) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
1) This is never laid out clearly. There are many explanations given, none of them are complete. Just like our understanding of sciences is never complete, neither is the characters' understanding of warrens. The most succinct but helpful explanation I can give without spoiling future revelations is that a warren is like a nexus of power aligned with some force or idea (light, fire, illusions, death, etc). Mages draw their power from one or more of these warrens. Yes, one of the powers you can use a warren for is to travel through it (it manifests as a physical world, it's possible for people to live within warrens).
2) Yes, Malazan armies have mage cadres, which are groups of mid-level mages who work together to provide the army with magic capabilities. Mages in the mage cadre are separate from High Mages like Tayschrenn, who are very powerful, much more rare, and tend to work alone, and are also separate from squad mages like Quick Ben who work within a single squad of marines as a unit.
3) The first scene with Tattersail and Hairlock takes place after the attack on the flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. Hairlock is just a normal human, he is cut in half during the flashback to the battle scene, which is why he has no legs during the first scene you meet him in.
4) They are completely different people, but they are allies in this war. Caladan Brood is the warlord leading an army far to north of Pale (the scene of the battle against Moon's Spawn). Anomander Rake is the lord of Moon's Spawn, who singlehandedly fights against the Malazan army at Pale.
5) I can't remember Dujek's age, but humans in Malazan live longer than humans in our world. IIRC it has something to do with warrens.
Thanks for your speedy reply it really sure does clear out some of the confusion. Just one more question though! + Show Spoiler +
Who exactly was fighting the group of the 3 High Mages, Tayschrenn, Tattersail, Hairlock. and Calot? Was it a conjured monster or was it who they believed was a Tiste Andii?
Thanks for recommending this series guys, just bought the first 3 books off amazon. I want to, but at the same time, don't want to read the game of throne books because it'll spoil the tv show for me (lol).
Just ordered the last book on Amazon, can't wait to finish the series. Definitely a series worth reading.
The book always remains interesting and there are very few slow parts; however, he does introduce a lot of new characters. Dust of Dreams is definitely an interesting/intense book, but when you finish it, keep in mind that it's really only half of a book, with The Crippled God being the other one.
This is probably my third favorite fantasy series behind Song of Ice and Fire and KingKiller Chronicles.
On June 30 2011 08:21 EAGER-beaver wrote: Thanks for recommending this series guys, just bought the first 3 books off amazon. I want to, but at the same time, don't want to read the game of throne books because it'll spoil the tv show for me (lol).
On June 07 2011 23:36 xjoehammerx wrote: Started book 1 two days ago and haven't been able to put it down. I look forward to digging into this series. I consider myself a hardcore fan of epic fantasy, so I am extremely surprised that this series hasn't come to my attention before. WTF? lol. Better late than never i guess.
Same here, I just started reading it today and I made it to the second chapter. Here are just some of the questions I have: + Show Spoiler +
1) What the hell is a warren? I think it's some kind of dimensional hole or a rift in time which can be used for transportation? But it can also be used to conjur magic?
2) Cadre = a group of magii?
3) During chapter 2 (book one), Tattersail and a man named Hairlock are in a battlefield of some sort attacking a fortress or a necropolis of some sort? Is hairlock like a half-man (he has no legs, it was said) but then during the fight with the 3 other High Mage's he get's cut in half again?
4) Don't spoil it for me, but I'm confused between the difference of Caldan Brood, and this Anomander Rake. Who exactly is the lord of the necropolis/fortress in #3?
5) Is the First Fist Dejuk Onearm 50? or 79? 79 in Fantasy years seems a bit too old.
1) This is never laid out clearly. There are many explanations given, none of them are complete. Just like our understanding of sciences is never complete, neither is the characters' understanding of warrens. The most succinct but helpful explanation I can give without spoiling future revelations is that a warren is like a nexus of power aligned with some force or idea (light, fire, illusions, death, etc). Mages draw their power from one or more of these warrens. Yes, one of the powers you can use a warren for is to travel through it (it manifests as a physical world, it's possible for people to live within warrens).
2) Yes, Malazan armies have mage cadres, which are groups of mid-level mages who work together to provide the army with magic capabilities. Mages in the mage cadre are separate from High Mages like Tayschrenn, who are very powerful, much more rare, and tend to work alone, and are also separate from squad mages like Quick Ben who work within a single squad of marines as a unit.
3) The first scene with Tattersail and Hairlock takes place after the attack on the flying fortress of Moon's Spawn. Hairlock is just a normal human, he is cut in half during the flashback to the battle scene, which is why he has no legs during the first scene you meet him in.
4) They are completely different people, but they are allies in this war. Caladan Brood is the warlord leading an army far to north of Pale (the scene of the battle against Moon's Spawn). Anomander Rake is the lord of Moon's Spawn, who singlehandedly fights against the Malazan army at Pale.
5) I can't remember Dujek's age, but humans in Malazan live longer than humans in our world. IIRC it has something to do with warrens.
Thanks for your speedy reply it really sure does clear out some of the confusion. Just one more question though! + Show Spoiler +
Who exactly was fighting the group of the 3 High Mages, Tayschrenn, Tattersail, Hairlock. and Calot? Was it a conjured monster or was it who they believed was a Tiste Andii?
Well, things like this are actually plot features. Part of the confusion arises from the fact that the point-of-view characters are mostly ground-level people who don't always know everything that's going on. The battle was, at least according to appearances, the Malazan army (in particular the mages that you listed) against Anomander Rake (ruler of the Tiste Andii). Like you said, at one point a creature is magically summoned and attacks the Malazan High Mages. The obvious assumption would be that Anomander Rake must have summoned it to help him. However, as Hairlock has already hinted at that point, he believes that Tayschrenn betrayed the others and used the confusion of the battle to kill the other Malazan mages for mysterious, nefarious reasons. Tattersail, through whose eyes we see this part of the story, is torn on whether or not she believes this.
Having just finished my 3 week marathon of devouring this series of books, I can only say "I WANT MORE". Seriously, I laughed, cried and was consumed in my own thoughts. I will be sorely tested in my patience to await his next series.
Also does anyone know any similar books/series that I can take up?
The first book is fantastic. I started reading it about two days before holiday and I've been desperate to read it the whole time I was away. I'll have to take a break before reading the rest (too many other books) but I will definitely be reading more of these. I don't know what the OP was thinking suggesting skipping the first book.
I ordered the next three books and I'll get around to reading them once the current pile has been reduced but I was just wondering, does anyone else get a slight discworld vibe from these books? Surely it can't just be me.
Discworld in what way? You mean the setting? Is there anything like Discworld? I'd love to find something that even remotely approaches it in terms of entertainment for me.
To me what's funny about Malazan (so far for me I've done with first two books) is that it's much more eventful than ASOIAF (A Song of Ice and Fire). On the other hand though the world isn't anywhere near as fleshed out as Martin's fantasy or at least as accessible. ASOIAF seems to be getting out of control with its plots while Malazan has a world that can't be encapsulated. Unless there's a drastic change after book 2 in Malazan I'm just going to expect each book is a segregated story with a handful of somewhat recurring characters.
Amazing series. Bridgeburners for the win . But you have to get through that some of the plots line start kind of wrong with GOTM which might confuse you at certain points further on the series
I'm currently rereading the series so that I can do the final book justice (reading Toll the Hounds atm). This is easily my favourite Fantasy series.
I always find it hard to describe his writing style to others, but I usually describe it as "gritty". I love how Erikson makes the lowliest pleb interesting, and how he deliberately turns the traditional stereotypes upside-down.
There are so many great characters in his books that it's hard to single out even a few characters. For me though it's probably Whiskeyjack, Anomander Rake, Karsa, Quick Ben and Fiddler.
Favourite book would probably be Memories of Ice or The Bonehunters.
BTW, I've read a few Erikson interviews, and he's always been unapologetic about the way he started Gardens of the Moon. I've always been of the opinion that new readers should read the series as intended, and that the first book is a way of weeding out those who probably won't like the series.
On July 27 2011 22:13 Gryffindor_us wrote: Discworld in what way? You mean the setting? Is there anything like Discworld? I'd love to find something that even remotely approaches it in terms of entertainment for me.
To me what's funny about Malazan (so far for me I've done with first two books) is that it's much more eventful than ASOIAF (A Song of Ice and Fire). On the other hand though the world isn't anywhere near as fleshed out as Martin's fantasy or at least as accessible. ASOIAF seems to be getting out of control with its plots while Malazan has a world that can't be encapsulated. Unless there's a drastic change after book 2 in Malazan I'm just going to expect each book is a segregated story with a handful of somewhat recurring characters.
malazan= one billion characters with 3 trillion plotline over all books
On July 27 2011 22:13 Gryffindor_us wrote: Discworld in what way? You mean the setting? Is there anything like Discworld? I'd love to find something that even remotely approaches it in terms of entertainment for me.
To me what's funny about Malazan (so far for me I've done with first two books) is that it's much more eventful than ASOIAF (A Song of Ice and Fire). On the other hand though the world isn't anywhere near as fleshed out as Martin's fantasy or at least as accessible. ASOIAF seems to be getting out of control with its plots while Malazan has a world that can't be encapsulated. Unless there's a drastic change after book 2 in Malazan I'm just going to expect each book is a segregated story with a handful of somewhat recurring characters.
he tells a story spread over 10 books. If you've only just finished the first 2, then you're just about out of the intro. Naturally you don't see the connection between everyone yet. But don't worry, that'll come. Book 5 is gonna be a killer for you lol.
One of the best book series I've ever read, tied for first place with ASIOF :D Never have been able to decide which one is the best. Haven't actually read the last few books in this series as pretty much stopped reading altogether a while back, but it's gonna be a blast to pick them up once I get the urge back.
He never changed his mind about the style of the first book which i do indeed like a lot. But he did change his mind about some of the plot lines so a few things of later books clash with GOTM (for which he kind of apologices). And best book probably Midnight tides, or House of Chains. Btw if you really like the series you should check the youtube songs by Kit Soden (not sure if someone mentioned him before)
On July 27 2011 21:49 Flicky wrote: I ordered the next three books and I'll get around to reading them once the current pile has been reduced but I was just wondering, does anyone else get a slight discworld vibe from these books? Surely it can't just be me.
I find the humorous conversations, especially in book 5 Midnight Tides, between Tehol and Bugg(you'll get there and you'll love it) to be very discworld-ish, as well as some of the conversations between various soldier groups within the Malazan army.
I'm on the tenth book now, unfortunately school started so who knows when, or if, I'll finish it. I lost motivation to finish the series when I realized some of my favorite character's weren't going to be in it + Show Spoiler +
seemed like she was going to be the center of story.
Also, I didn't realize until I started working through the ninth book, that the tenth book wasn't really going to conclude all the story ends I wanted finished. Oh well, there were some really great moments in the series and some really good characters.
I've just read this scene in Memories of Ice and this is from Capustan when Itkovian is riding to meet the Mortal Sword and whatnot before they get ambushed/by the Pannion guys after Rath'Fener's betrayal. His horse is a total boss in that scene, it kills a bunch of Tenescowri (who you can see here as the starving corpselike people clawing at Itkovian) and even bites ones scalp clean from its head.
Anyway, I'm almost through Memories of Ice and getting quite into this series. I'm taking my time so I don't burn out but I never had any of these problems with confusion about what is going on and what the warrens are and so on (at the start). I have a friend who can't wrap his head around it, even with my explanations and I don't really get it. On a need-to-know basis, there isn't a lot to it.
I picked up the first couple books after reading this thread. I'm still struggling to get through Deadhouse Gates, not sure if I'll even finish it as I have absolutely no idea whats going on and just haven't enjoyed it very much.
I just finished reading the second book and well I'm quite sad.+ Show Spoiler +
Really awesome book but man the ending with Coltaine was just heart breaking
. Can't believe I didn't know about this series but thanks TL for showing me the light! One thing I'm really enjoying is the fact that they author doesn't hold your hand throughout the series. He doesn't need to randomly spell out exactly what is happening, he leaves you to put the pieces together and use your imagination. Too often stories are ruined by forcing the reader out of the use of imagination.
So, I've read the first book and felt that the story kind of ended. Much like the WoT series should have ended after book 3 (I think it is). I'm afraid to spoil anything by reading this thread, but is it worth picking up the rest of the books? Do they continue in the same fashion as the first and is there a larger story spanning all books or are they more or less stand alone (like I think the first one is, the main story of the book ends in the first book)?
Cuddle. The first book is good. But the story does not end there. It has barely begun. The series does not end with the minor skirmishes in Gardens of the Moon. Yes. Minor. The second book is also a lot better on the first read through than any other book, ever.
On December 20 2011 21:22 Cuddle wrote: So, I've read the first book and felt that the story kind of ended. Much like the WoT series should have ended after book 3 (I think it is). I'm afraid to spoil anything by reading this thread, but is it worth picking up the rest of the books? Do they continue in the same fashion as the first and is there a larger story spanning all books or are they more or less stand alone (like I think the first one is, the main story of the book ends in the first book)?
If you think things are all finished, well, that's definitely not so. Many characters will return throughout the books as well, but each book describes diferrent events usually, so those events end.
Btw, Omg, my favorite series ever! I am still waiting for the Mass Market Paperback for the last book, as I don't want one big book and 9 small books on my bookshelf.
Finally got a hold of the last book. If this was vol 5ish, I would've got hold of it immediately after release. Unfortunately the latter volumes, 6-9 were quite disappointing, with 9 a practical write-off. I actually started the series on vol 3 - in hindsight a high point and got through fine, in fact rather enjoyed the parts where you have to figure things out and re-read. However once I became familiar with the world itself, the flaw's in Erikson's writing starts to rear its head. Too many characters become stereotypes that just carries on and on. Even his word play on character names starts to get old. Trying to out do each previous book with a bigger (in the physical sense) convergence and climax actually ended with less emotional impact. I face palmed throughout the last part of vol 9, with dozens of sky keep unable to match the emotions involved in a single moonspawn.
Hope I don't get in trouble for bumping this thread, but I finally finished the last book... and what an amazing end.
I started the series about 7-8 years ago and constantly re-read the series every time a new book came out and finally got around to re-reading the series for the last novel... fantastic!!! If anyone is interested in the fantasy genre... please check this series out, it is so amazing.
Shoutout to my two favorite characters in any fantasy novel, Tehol Beddict and Bugg, the two funniest characters of all time.
On April 16 2012 10:08 Premier wrote: Hope I don't get in trouble for bumping this thread, but I finally finished the last book... and what an amazing end.
I started the series about 7-8 years ago and constantly re-read the series every time a new book came out and finally got around to re-reading the series for the last novel... fantastic!!! If anyone is interested in the fantasy genre... please check this series out, it is so amazing.
Shoutout to my two favorite characters in any fantasy novel, Tehol Beddict and Bugg, the two funniest characters of all time.
You're not done yet! Ian C. Esslemont's complementary series is currently four books in and theres more to come. I would definitely suggest reading it, Esslemenot's series provides some good back story on characters from Erickson's series. Particularly, you learn more about Traveler and how bad ass he is. You also get to learn about the Crimson Guard, which was always an enigma is Erickson's series.
Tehol and Bugg were probably my two favorite characters for comedic relief, but there are too many other great characters in the Malazan universe for me to call Bugg and Tehol my favorites. Anomander, Karsa, Kallor, Dassem, TCG, Rhulad, Trull.... the list goes on. Iktovian's pretty cool too I suppose ^_^; though I liked his roll in the third book a lot more than his roll in the 8th book.
On April 16 2012 11:06 Premier wrote: Yeah Karsa is also great, I love Quick Ben and most of the Malazan Marines, though I'll be sure to check out Esslemont's novels! Thanks!
Ya, I really liked the Bridgeburners. But by the ninth and tenth books there were too many damn marines! Sooo many names in the Bonehunter army that I never got around too learning, haha. And in those last books, it would keep jumping from one marine to another it got kind of disorienting. I would have rather Erickson stayed focused on a core group of marines, instead of branching out so far into the Bonehunters. I felt like he was trying to tell me about everyone in the army and it just became too overwhelming.
Esslemont's first novel is really short, you'll probably blaze through it. I'm almost done with his second one now, "Return of the Crimson Guard". It feels a lot more fleshed out and very similiar to Erickson's style.
And later this year SE himself will put out a new book, Forge of Darkness, first book in the Kharkanas trilogy which will cover the Tiste Andii in the days of old really looking forward to that.
This really is my favorite series of all time, like you I reread everything when a new one was about to be published, and did a lot of rereading in between as well - around Midnight Tides there was a period of about a year and a half where I solely read Malazan books, so much to discover on rereads and so much epic moments that are just awesome to relive again and again :D I also think it's very impressive that SE actually manages to write them at the pace he does, roughly one every year, and they're not the smallest ones around either!
On April 16 2012 17:48 ElanMT wrote: And later this year SE himself will put out a new book, Forge of Darkness, first book in the Kharkanas trilogy which will cover the Tiste Andii in the days of old really looking forward to that.
This really is my favorite series of all time, like you I reread everything when a new one was about to be published, and did a lot of rereading in between as well - around Midnight Tides there was a period of about a year and a half where I solely read Malazan books, so much to discover on rereads and so much epic moments that are just awesome to relive again and again :D I also think it's very impressive that SE actually manages to write them at the pace he does, roughly one every year, and they're not the smallest ones around either!
Oh, nice! I didn't realize it would be out so soon, it looks like its coming out in august. I always liked the ancient history parts in his series where they talked about Rake, Osric, Draconus, etc. Probably one of my favorite aspects of Erickson's series is how immersive and illustrious the history of the world is. It gives the malazan universe such a large and rich scope, it reminds me of the feeling of Tolkien's universe and the Silmarilion.
On April 16 2012 17:48 ElanMT wrote: And later this year SE himself will put out a new book, Forge of Darkness, first book in the Kharkanas trilogy which will cover the Tiste Andii in the days of old really looking forward to that.
This really is my favorite series of all time, like you I reread everything when a new one was about to be published, and did a lot of rereading in between as well - around Midnight Tides there was a period of about a year and a half where I solely read Malazan books, so much to discover on rereads and so much epic moments that are just awesome to relive again and again :D I also think it's very impressive that SE actually manages to write them at the pace he does, roughly one every year, and they're not the smallest ones around either!
Oh, nice! I didn't realize it would be out so soon, it looks like its coming out in august. I always liked the ancient history parts in his series where they talked about Rake, Osric, Draconus, etc. Probably one of my favorite aspects of Erickson's series is how immersive and illustrious the history of the world is. It gives the malazan universe such a large and rich scope, it reminds me of the feeling of Tolkien's universe and the Silmarilion.
This is by far my favorite part of Eriksons writing. The depth of his universe is so well formulated and thought out. Throughout the series he does an excellent job of pacing how much he reveals about the universe as well, letting the reader experience it for themselves without having it all laid out for them. This quality of his writing gives him such a different feel from other authors I have read and these books will always hold a special place in my heart because of that.
I feel though that this stark contrast between how he tells a story and how more popular authors do is a hindrance to his popularity. I have tried for years to get my friends interested in these books but most people just can't get past the first one. I don't have anyone to nerd out with
Honestly the last book was kind disappointing. I mean, don't get me wrong the plot and convergence was very good, and its the same addictive style that he usually writes in. It was very exciting.
The main issues I have is the huge amount of open ended threads he left. A lot of the characters he's introduced and developed stories for just kind of disappeared, leaving their stories unfinished. It felt like he just had too many threads that he just kind of lost track of a lot of them. Sometimes there's just a little too much going on in his books and seems like he doesn't even know where he's going with it. I just wish those few threads were wrapped up.
On April 17 2012 04:37 fire_brand wrote: Honestly the last book was kind disappointing. I mean, don't get me wrong the plot and convergence was very good, and its the same addictive style that he usually writes in. It was very exciting.
The main issues I have is the huge amount of open ended threads he left. A lot of the characters he's introduced and developed stories for just kind of disappeared, leaving their stories unfinished. It felt like he just had too many threads that he just kind of lost track of a lot of them. Sometimes there's just a little too much going on in his books and seems like he doesn't even know where he's going with it. I just wish those few threads were wrapped up.
Nevertheless good book.
From what I gather part of the reason the first book is like that is because it was originally intended to be a movie script, or written like a play. That's why a lot of the characters are introduced in that fashion and also why the book has a different tempo than the rest of the series. The whole circle breaker plot line felt very indicative of this.
I can't seem to find that interview anywhere though my google-fu is lacking these days.
Q. I read that you originally developed the Malazan world with Ian Cameron Esslemont as a role-playing game. What made you decide to put it into a novel?
STEVEN ERIKSON: A: There were probably a number of incentives at work. First off, we were creating games that reflected what we wanted to see in fantasy fiction, but with a few exceptions we weren’t finding it (Glen Cook’s Black Company series and his Dread Empire stuff were notable exceptions). At the same time, both Cam and I were in a writing program at the University of Victoria, which each of us would continue on into Master’s degrees, me at Iowa and Cam in Alaska, so we were both writing fiction. At some point, we began co-writing feature film (FF) scripts, and one of those formed the core of Gardens of the Moon. Shortly thereafter, as our interest in fiction writing developed, it was obvious that, ultimately, so much of what we gamed was already intrinsically novelistic, in structure and narrative (the spell-check just went "huh?" with "novelistic" but I’ll keep it anyway), and the transition seemed obvious. My adaptation of the FF script of Gardens forced an expansion of the basic story (the film occurred entirely in Darujhistan) and the introduction of innumerable new characters and sub-plots. While we’re good at co-writing scripts, we decided at the very beginning that for novels we would tackle those individually. And that is what we have done.
On April 16 2012 17:48 ElanMT wrote: And later this year SE himself will put out a new book, Forge of Darkness, first book in the Kharkanas trilogy which will cover the Tiste Andii in the days of old really looking forward to that.
This really is my favorite series of all time, like you I reread everything when a new one was about to be published, and did a lot of rereading in between as well - around Midnight Tides there was a period of about a year and a half where I solely read Malazan books, so much to discover on rereads and so much epic moments that are just awesome to relive again and again :D I also think it's very impressive that SE actually manages to write them at the pace he does, roughly one every year, and they're not the smallest ones around either!
Oh, nice! I didn't realize it would be out so soon, it looks like its coming out in august. I always liked the ancient history parts in his series where they talked about Rake, Osric, Draconus, etc. Probably one of my favorite aspects of Erickson's series is how immersive and illustrious the history of the world is. It gives the malazan universe such a large and rich scope, it reminds me of the feeling of Tolkien's universe and the Silmarilion.
This is by far my favorite part of Eriksons writing. The depth of his universe is so well formulated and thought out. Throughout the series he does an excellent job of pacing how much he reveals about the universe as well, letting the reader experience it for themselves without having it all laid out for them. This quality of his writing gives him such a different feel from other authors I have read and these books will always hold a special place in my heart because of that.
I feel though that this stark contrast between how he tells a story and how more popular authors do is a hindrance to his popularity. I have tried for years to get my friends interested in these books but most people just can't get past the first one. I don't have anyone to nerd out with
Ya, I haven't had any success getting my friends to read it either. I got my brother to read half way through the first one. He liked it, but it was too slow-moving for him. And a bibliophile friend of mine has had it on their shelf for years, unread, even though I keep pestering them to start it lol. I think its just too dense and too intimidating for most people. Erickson's style is really methodical and broad. There are so many characters covered it become tedious too keep track of, and sometimes your favorite characters aren't seen for chapters. Or even whole books...
On April 17 2012 04:37 fire_brand wrote: Honestly the last book was kind disappointing. I mean, don't get me wrong the plot and convergence was very good, and its the same addictive style that he usually writes in. It was very exciting.
The main issues I have is the huge amount of open ended threads he left. A lot of the characters he's introduced and developed stories for just kind of disappeared, leaving their stories unfinished. It felt like he just had too many threads that he just kind of lost track of a lot of them. Sometimes there's just a little too much going on in his books and seems like he doesn't even know where he's going with it. I just wish those few threads were wrapped up.
Nevertheless good book.
That was exactly how I felt. When I read the "dramatis personae" at the beginning of book 10 I couldn't help but have a wtf feeling. Some of my favorite characters weren't even mentioned. Thats why, after I finished the ninth, I didn't get around to reading the 10th untill half a year later, even though I had it in my possession. I just wasn't very motivated to read it when some of my favorite story arcs weren't even important to the conclusion. But I think Erickson plans on addressing a lot of those characters in his forthcoming books. I know he's gonna have a Toblakai series, which I'll be greatly anticipating. And Ian C. Esslemont's works also plan on tying up some threads, from what I've heard.
I've been at the end of the 3rd book forever, I just can't finish it. Dreadfully boring, can't grow attached to any of the characters, the plot is so incredibly loose, dozens and dozens of characters come and go and plot threads just dangle and disappear (what about the historian at the end of book 2, or anythign from book 2 really, book 3 picked up in almost the middle of fucking nowhere), in the end I just end up not caring about any of them. I never get that, "gee, i wonder what's gonna happen? next page turner feeling", whether that's from the character overload or the seemingly random plot devices from over use of magic that randomly turns the world upside. Half the fun is a little foreshadowing, or at least some sort of basic rules as to what to expect, the randomness just makes me not give a shit since anything can happen at any time.
This is certainly one of my favorite series of all time. It sorta has some books that are "meh" for me i guess would be the best way to describe but overall its awesome as a whole.
On April 17 2012 12:28 EAGER-beaver wrote: I've been at the end of the 3rd book forever, I just can't finish it. Dreadfully boring, can't grow attached to any of the characters, the plot is so incredibly loose, dozens and dozens of characters come and go and plot threads just dangle and disappear (what about the historian at the end of book 2, or anythign from book 2 really, book 3 picked up in almost the middle of fucking nowhere), in the end I just end up not caring about any of them. I never get that, "gee, i wonder what's gonna happen? next page turner feeling", whether that's from the character overload or the seemingly random plot devices from over use of magic that randomly turns the world upside. Half the fun is a little foreshadowing, or at least some sort of basic rules as to what to expect, the randomness just makes me not give a shit since anything can happen at any time.
Its stand-alone from the second because it happens at the same time as the second book. Enjoy every book indivdually, because they all, together, form one giant cohesive story that spans 10 gigantic novels.
On April 17 2012 12:28 EAGER-beaver wrote: I've been at the end of the 3rd book forever, I just can't finish it. Dreadfully boring, can't grow attached to any of the characters, the plot is so incredibly loose, dozens and dozens of characters come and go and plot threads just dangle and disappear (what about the historian at the end of book 2, or anythign from book 2 really, book 3 picked up in almost the middle of fucking nowhere), in the end I just end up not caring about any of them. I never get that, "gee, i wonder what's gonna happen? next page turner feeling", whether that's from the character overload or the seemingly random plot devices from over use of magic that randomly turns the world upside. Half the fun is a little foreshadowing, or at least some sort of basic rules as to what to expect, the randomness just makes me not give a shit since anything can happen at any time.
Kind of funny you mentioned him actually. I believe you're talking about Duiker. He actually has a scene at the end of book 3. It was probably one of the most powerful scenes in the third book for me, it gave me the chills.
But yes, I had the same feelings as you when I was first reading the series. It just kind of blew my mind how some of the books would take place almost entirely independently from the previous book. If the third book felt like it was picking up out of nowhere, wait til you get to the fifth book, hahaha. Its really frustrating at first, how he just starts up in a random location across the universe but don't worry, it all *mostly* ties together by the last book.
Often times the distance between characters and cultures actually serves to play as an awe factor. You'll find the story taking place on another continent where the happening of a previous book are just rumors that have made their way across the sea. It oddly adds a sense of significance to the events, because when other characters are hearing about events tens of thousands of miles away it just shows how important those events are.
Ultimately, you can't spend time caring about every character. There are so fucking many, you have to be able to pick out which ones are the important/powerful ones. There are a core group of characters which seem to get their hands involved in every continent. If you don't mind being spoiled a bit, keep your eyes on: + Show Spoiler +
Ganoes Paran, Shadowthrone, Anomander Rake, Toc the Younger, The Chained God
These are a few figures that will keep popping up, among others.
Edit: I will add, if you don't like the third book by the time you are finished with it, its probably not worth it to keep reading the series. The third is widely considered to be one of the best.
just saw this thread, i am reading the first book (gardens of the moon) and sometimes i feel like its super complex and really tough to understand for non native english speaking person, i am only reading stuff in english so i bought it in english and with books from martin (song of ice and fire series for example) i didnt ve any problems :3
seems like there are a lot of personalities getting thrown in and stuff...like i am on page 260 or something and there are like so many charakters already i fear i ve a hard time remembering all of them :D
On May 03 2012 21:23 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just saw this thread, i am reading the first book (gardens of the moon) and sometimes i feel like its super complex and really tough to understand for non native english speaking person, i am only reading stuff in english so i bought it in english and with books from martin (song of ice and fire series for example) i didnt ve any problems :3
seems like there are a lot of personalities getting thrown in and stuff...like i am on page 260 or something and there are like so many charakters already i fear i ve a hard time remembering all of them :D
Keep reading. Erikson demands a lot from the reader, but if you manage to remember most of the main characters, the book is pretty good. The book really picks up somewhere after 300 pages, and awesome stuff happens. It is not my favorite book in the series, as it it is much too complicated, and the start is really hard for new readers of the series.
And if you manage to get through the book, you absolutely need to start on book two, Deadhouse Gates. It is actually the best book ever written in any language ever in the whole universe.
Except maybe book three, Memories of Ice. That is one bad-ass book too...hmm...
On May 03 2012 21:23 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just saw this thread, i am reading the first book (gardens of the moon) and sometimes i feel like its super complex and really tough to understand for non native english speaking person, i am only reading stuff in english so i bought it in english and with books from martin (song of ice and fire series for example) i didnt ve any problems :3
seems like there are a lot of personalities getting thrown in and stuff...like i am on page 260 or something and there are like so many charakters already i fear i ve a hard time remembering all of them :D
Don't worry and just keep with it. It's really hard to get everything that's happening the first time you read through the books, but every time you read them again you'll catch more and more of the stuff that's going on. And as mentioned above, once you get through the first book it really picks up (book 2 and 3 introduce some of the most awesome characters ever) and I didn't have much trouble getting through the books.
Thanks for the heads up, ofc i am gonna continue, got deadhouse gates already in my shelf but as i said, compared to martins english this really seems like a different language as song of ice and fire was so much easier to read
I picked up the series on alot of TL recommendations. I read the first book and thought it was a snooze. But alot of people had suggested that the first book was the hardest to get into. I then started reading the second book and got about 100 pages in before I gave up. I just cant stand them for some reason.
I find them so incredibly boring, the character are spread so thinley its hard to get attached to any of them, and frankly I feel like half the time you dont know what the hell they are talking about because im so bored that I read lines and dont absorb them.
Its strange because I read alot, fantasy, Scifi, historical fiction, from hundreds of different authors. I just cant seem to get into these series. Is there a book that might top the chain? something that can get me interested so I can dig back into the earlier ones? any suggestions?
On May 03 2012 23:19 Darpa wrote: I picked up the series on alot of TL recommendations. I read the first book and thought it was a snooze. But alot of people had suggested that the first book was the hardest to get into. I then started reading the second book and got about 100 pages in before I gave up. I just cant stand them for some reason.
I find them so incredibly boring, the character are spread so thinley its hard to get attached to any of them, and frankly I feel like half the time you dont know what the hell they are talking about because im so bored that I read lines and dont absorb them.
Its strange because I read alot, fantasy, Scifi, historical fiction, from hundreds of different authors. I just cant seem to get into these series. Is there a book that might top the chain? something that can get me interested so I can dig back into the earlier ones? any suggestions?
Honestly, just finish Deadhouse gates. You'll get into it pretty quick, and it's worth finishing. I haven't really read any other book more moving than this one.
Plus the third is way too badass not to read. Honestly, for the books.. (imo) 1- good 2- great 3- amazing 4- good 5- amazing (Knight of Knives) - great 6 - meh (Crimson Guard) - first half meh, second half great 7 - amazing 8- amazing 9 - good 10 - great (StoneWielder) - Amazing
It's worth getting through the good books to get to the amazing ones.
On May 03 2012 23:19 Darpa wrote: I picked up the series on alot of TL recommendations. I read the first book and thought it was a snooze. But alot of people had suggested that the first book was the hardest to get into. I then started reading the second book and got about 100 pages in before I gave up. I just cant stand them for some reason.
I find them so incredibly boring, the character are spread so thinley its hard to get attached to any of them, and frankly I feel like half the time you dont know what the hell they are talking about because im so bored that I read lines and dont absorb them.
Its strange because I read alot, fantasy, Scifi, historical fiction, from hundreds of different authors. I just cant seem to get into these series. Is there a book that might top the chain? something that can get me interested so I can dig back into the earlier ones? any suggestions?
Honestly, just finish Deadhouse gates. You'll get into it pretty quick, and it's worth finishing. I haven't really read any other book more moving than this one.
Plus the third is way too badass not to read. Honestly, for the books.. (imo) 1- good 2- great 3- amazing 4- good 5- amazing (Knight of Knives) - great 6 - meh (Crimson Guard) - first half meh, second half great 7 - amazing 8- amazing 9 - good 10 - great (StoneWielder) - Amazing
It's worth getting through the good books to get to the amazing ones.
If he has read all of GotM and hasn't enjoyed it at all I wouldn't recommend continuing.
I'm on Book 8 currently and this is the best series I've ever read. I love how the plot plays out over such a huge world and I think it's incredible how Erikson has a coherent several thousand year history for the huge world.
Honestly there are so many things I love about these books that I could sit here for hours writing about them. I'd encourage everyone to try but it might not be your cup of tea.
On May 03 2012 23:19 Darpa wrote: I picked up the series on alot of TL recommendations. I read the first book and thought it was a snooze. But alot of people had suggested that the first book was the hardest to get into. I then started reading the second book and got about 100 pages in before I gave up. I just cant stand them for some reason.
I find them so incredibly boring, the character are spread so thinley its hard to get attached to any of them, and frankly I feel like half the time you dont know what the hell they are talking about because im so bored that I read lines and dont absorb them.
Its strange because I read alot, fantasy, Scifi, historical fiction, from hundreds of different authors. I just cant seem to get into these series. Is there a book that might top the chain? something that can get me interested so I can dig back into the earlier ones? any suggestions?
I love the books and feel like they are some of the best Fantasy I have ever read. This is because they dont focus on a small groupe of Uber heros that you follow down a liniar path. The thing I love the most about the books is that it's basically a loveletter to the infantry grunts of the armys. Firting with Roman influences in a fantasy setting. And in the same way as the core of the roman world was built on slaves and legioneers with the rich and powerful squabbling and fighting one andother for power. Most of wich results in more hardship for the soldiers and slaves. It's more or less the same but you see it from the point of the Centurion or Legioneer rather the from the point of Cesar.
So it all comes down to what you like in your fantasy, great heros and front figures who take all the credit, or the lowly infantryman who gets the job done
I read through like half of the first book about two years ago and just gave it up despite really wanting to get into the series (especially because I loved ASoIAf, the First Law trilogy, and both books of the Gentlemen Bastards series that are out). After reading the OP though, I might just go pick up book two then. Thanks for the tip.
I feel like Erickson needs a better editor or something. I picked up Gardens of the Moon on heavy recommendation, and waited forever for anything to happen.. and then the book ended. I've only just finished Deadhouse Gates, and while the ending was quite good, the first half was just as slow as the first book. Sadly, two books is all I can give this series. I wanted to really get into this, but I really feel like of the ~1600 pages I read, 1000 was painful to read.
Such a shame as there were some interesting characters =\.
On May 03 2012 23:09 {ToT}ColmA wrote: Thanks for the heads up, ofc i am gonna continue, got deadhouse gates already in my shelf but as i said, compared to martins english this really seems like a different language as song of ice and fire was so much easier to read
Yeah, erickson's command of english is not his strong point, to me his strong point is making an interesting and expansive universe. He doesn't write to make his language very comsumable. For me, its always been 80% reading through a slow grind of scenes and characters I dont care about, and 20% reading of scenes that are unmatched in their greatness. Mainly, Erickson is good at creating awesome moments. The hard part for me has always been getting from moment to moment.
On May 04 2012 09:08 Undrass wrote: Erikson basically spends the first half of the books building up towards awesomeness, and the rest of the book in a bad-ass nirvana.
That basically sums it up.
I disagree with someone saying his command of english isnt his strong point...Maybe his pacing, but his writting is impeccable.Toll the hounds was more literature than it was fantasy, was so good.
I just love all the philosophical or amazing quotes that gets thrown in like 20 times a book. I just love his style, and in the 400+ fantasy books ive read, no has come close to matching it.
I read the first couple. Not too bad, good heavy fantasy is nice to read once in awhile. However, its the kind of book where you almost have to take notes to remember what's what, lol.
Let me start by saying that I don't have a lot of reading time. Well, I should say that I have a decent amount of FREE time (only work 50 hours a week, so about 15 hours less free time than the Euros) but that most of that is devoted to going out with friends or computer games.
That being said, I've been inching my way through this series. I have almost finished the 2nd book (which I haven't liked as much as the first, contrary to what it seems like the majority opinion is).
These are not books for people who want a quick fix or impressive prose. These are for those who are interested in extremely in-depth world building, a vast mosaic of characters, and a much more significant focus on the supernatural than is present in GRRM books.
On May 15 2012 11:34 s_side wrote: These are not books for people who want a quick fix or impressive prose. These are for those who are interested in extremely in-depth world building, a vast mosaic of characters, and a much more significant focus on the supernatural than is present in GRRM books.
You sum it up well.
A lot of people like to bring up the Malazan books in comparison to ASOIAF, and while in some ways they are similar, the style's employed are actually quite different, as you pointed out. Beyond being long science-fiction novels, I think their greatest similarity is their abandonment of the idea of "good" vs "evill". Both authors change point of views a lot, and all sides in the story are spoken for at some point. They can both be gritty and they like to defy the standard black and white morale standpoint. I use ASOIAF as a good indicator of if someone would be able to actually survive reading Erickson's novels. Only if they have been able to read and finish ASOIAF, would I then recommend them the Malazan books. If you can't read GRRM, theres no way you could read Erickson and Esslemont haha
Anyways, I just finished reading "Stonewielder", Esslemont's third story in his Malazan series. And I have to say it was much better than his first two pieces. The story arc felt much more organized, and the new characters were much more interesting. It climaxed cleanly as well, unlike the climax of "Return of the Crimson Guard" which felt prolonged and a little bit messy. I would definitely recommend giving Esslemont a chance if you haven't already.
I almost didn't read the tenth book when I saw him, and a few other characters, weren't in the dramatis personae. But then I was excited when I found out he was getting his own trilogy.
Intrigued by some of the stuff mentioned in here, particularly the idea of pantheons of gods in conflict with each other. However I wonder how valid the criticism is since most of it seems to derive from a comparison with Martin. Both of them seem to have entirely different goals in mind as they were writing their series.
On May 03 2012 21:23 {ToT}ColmA wrote: just saw this thread, i am reading the first book (gardens of the moon) and sometimes i feel like its super complex and really tough to understand for non native english speaking person, i am only reading stuff in english so i bought it in english and with books from martin (song of ice and fire series for example) i didnt ve any problems :3
seems like there are a lot of personalities getting thrown in and stuff...like i am on page 260 or something and there are like so many charakters already i fear i ve a hard time remembering all of them :D
I will tell you this, I am enjoying my second readthrough even more than my first. Now that I'm very aware of all the characters and the story, I am catching so many more details in my current read than my first.
It definitely can get confusing and convoluted with all the characters, but it all comes together.
Also, Gardens of the Moon to me is like one giant prologue.
Alright so I am an avid fantasy book enthusiast but have always neglected Erickson's works.
I am mid way through Gardens of the Moon. I can really respect the depth of the lore; especially the scope of character plots and intrigues. I can see some similarities of Greek/Roman mythology.
My only question is: Does the series coalesce into a straight plot with main protagonists and antagonists? Or is it a series of perspectives on Malazan's history; with the readers retro-historical outlook as the tying bond between stories?
On May 30 2012 06:44 tronix wrote: Alright so I am an avid fantasy book enthusiast but have always neglected Erickson's works.
I am mid way through Gardens of the Moon. I can really respect the depth of the lore; especially the scope of character plots and intrigues. I can see some similarities of Greek/Roman mythology.
My only question is: Does the series coalesce into a straight plot with main protagonists and antagonists? Or is it a series of perspectives on Malazan's history; with the readers retro-historical outlook as the tying bond between stories?
Ehhh. A little of both. Most of it converges at the end. But some story lines won't get as much justice as you may feel they deserve. It gets to the point where theres just SO many plotlines and characters that he can't reasonably end them all together. Keep in mind though, there is more writing besides the main ten-book series. His co-creator has four books out now. And Erickson also plans on writing two other trilogies at least.
So yes, the main series does converge into one general ending. But, not all the storylines/characters are heavily involved in the conclusion.
Just started on Gardens of the moon. Wow, a lot of names and titles. And these "Warrens" whatever the hell they are... Hard to imagine while reading... And then the stuff about gods and satan... and Tiiste Andi, are they a group or a guy... Quite confusing yeah.
In one of the books, two characters have a climactic battle. When they clash, the moon litterally explodes. Note that this is not from a shockwave, or from some magic power or something. The sheer event of them crossing blades has such an impact on reality that the moon just blows right the fuck up. At the same time, two other characters are having their own epic showdown trying to coax their uncooperative mounts, a pair of mules, to charge into battle against each other. If you are interested, the mule scene is typed out and spoilered below:
Iskaral Pust rode like a madman. Unfortunately, the mule beneath him and decided that a plodding walk would suffice, making the two of them a most incongruous pair. The high priest flung himself back and forth, pitched from side to side. His feet kicked high, toes skyward, then lashed back down. Heels pounded insensate flanks in a thumping drum-roll entirely devoid of rythem. Reins flailed about but the mule had chewed trough the bit and so the reins were attached to nothing but two mangled stumps that seemed determined to batter Pust senseless.
He tossed about as if riding a goaded bull. Spraying sweat, lips pulled back in a savage grimace, the whites visible round his bugged-out eyes.
The mule, why, the mule walked. Clump clump (pause) clump (pause) clump clump. And so on.
Swirling just above Iskaral Pust's head, and acrobatically avoiding the bit-ends, flapped the squall of bhokarala. Like oversized gnats, and how that mule's tail whiped back and forth! She sought to swat them away, but in spirit of gnat-hood the bhokarala did not relent, so eager were they to claim the very next plop of dung wending its way out beneath that tail. Over which they'd fight tooth, talon and claw.
Swarming in mule and rider's wake was a river of spiders, flowing glittering black over the cobbles.
At one point three white hounds tramped across the street not twenty paces distant. A trio of immensely ugly heads swung to regard mule and rider. And to show that it meant business, the mule propped up its ears. Clump clump (pause) clump clump clump.
The hounds moved on.
It does no good to molest a mule.
Alas, as Iskaral Pust and his placid mount were moments from discovering, there were indeed forces in the world that could confound both.
And here then, at last, arrives the shining, blazing, astonishing nexus, the penultimate pinnacle of this profound night, as bold Kruppe nudges his ferocious war-mule into the path of one Iskaral Pust, mule, and sundry spiders and bhokarala.
Mule sees mule. Both halt with a bare fifteen paces between them, ears at bristling attention.
Rider sees rider. Magus grows dangerously still, eyes hooded. Kruppe waves one plump hand in greeting.
Bhokarala launch a mid-air conference that results in one beast landing awkwardly on the cobbles to the left of the High Priest, whilst the others find window sills, projections, and the heads of handsome gargoyles on which to perch, chests heaving and tounges lolling.
The spiders run away.
Thus, the tableau is set.
'Out of my way!' screeched Iskaral Pust. 'Who is this fool and how dare he fool wth me? I'll gnash him! I'll crush him down. I'll feint right and dodge left and we'll be by in a flash! Look at that pathetic mule - he'll never catch us! I got a sword to claim. Mine, yes, mine! And then won't Shadowthrone grovel and simper! Iskaral Pust, High priest of Dragnipur! Most feared swordsman in ten thousand worlds! And if you think you've seen justice at its most fickle, you just wait!' He then leaned foreward and smiled. 'Kind sir, could you kindly move yourself and your yon beast to one side? I must keep an appointment, you understand. Hastily, in fact.' Then he hissed, 'Go climb up your own arse, you redvested ball of lard that someone rolled across a forest floor! Go! Scat!'
'Most confounding indeed,' Kruppe replied with his most beatific smile. 'It seems we are in discord, in tat you seek to proceed in a direction that will inevitably colide with none other then Kruppe, the Eel of Darujhistan. Poor priest, it us late. Does your god know where you are?'
'Eel? Kruppe? Collide? Fat and idiot besides, what a dastardly combination, and on this of all nights! Listen, take another street. If I run into this Crappy Eel I'll be sure to let him know you're looking for him. It's the least I can do.'
'Hardly, but no matter. I am Kruppe the Crappy Eel, alas.'
'So fine, we've run into each other. Glad that's over with. Now let me pass!'
'Kruppe regrets that any and every path you may seek shall be impeded by none other then Kruppe himself. Unless, of course, you conclude that what you seek is not worth the effort, nor the grief certain to follow, and so wisely return to thy shadowy temple.'
'You don't know what I want so it's none of your damned buisness what I want!'
'Misapprehensions abound, but wait, does this slavering fool even understand?'
'What? I wasn't supposed to hear that? But I did! I did, you fat idiot!'
'He only thought he heard. Kind priest, Kruppe assures you, you did not hear but mishear. Kind priest? Why, Kruppe is too generous, too forgiving by far, and hear hear! Or is it here here? No matter, it's not as if this grinning toad will understand. Why, his mule's got a sharper look in its eye then he has. Now, kindly priest, it's late and you should be in bd, yes? Abjectly alone, no doubt. Hmm?'
Iskaral Pust stared. He gaped. His eyes darted, alighting on the bhorkaral squatting on the cobbles beside him as it made staring, gaping, darting expressions. 'My worshippers! Of course! You! Yes, you! Gather your kin and attack the fat fool! Attack! Your god commands you! Attack!'
The bhokaral offered him a dung sausage. And then smiled. * Oh, so much for reasoned negotiation.
Iskaral Pust's warbling battle cry was somewhat strangled as he leaned foreward, perched high in the stirrups, hands reaching like a raptor's talons, and the mule reluctantly stumped foreward.
Kruppe watched this agozizingly slow charge. He sighed. 'Really now. It comes to this? So be it.' And he kicked his war-mule into motion.
The beasts closed, step by step. By step.
Iskaral Pust clawed the air, weaving and pitching, head bobbing. Overhead, the bhokarala screamed and flew in frenzied circles. The High Priest's mule flicked its tail.
Kruppe's war-mule edged to the right. Pust's beast angled to its right. Their hands came alongside, and then thier shoulders. Whereupon they halted.
Snarling and spitting, Iskaral Pust launched himsef at Kruppe, who grunted a sprised oof! Fsts flew, thumbs jabbed, jaws snapped - the High Priest's crazed attack - and the Eel threw up his forearms to fend it off, only to inadvertently punch Pust in the nose with one pudgy hand. Head rocked back, a stunned gasp. Attack renewed.
They grappeled. They toppled, thumping on to the cobbles in a flurry of limbs.
The bhokarala joined in, diving from above with screeches and snarls, swarming the two combatants before beginning to fight with each other. Fists flying, thumbs jabbing, jaws snapping. Spiders swept in from all sides, tiny fangs nipping everything in sight.
The entire mass writhed and seethed.
The two mules walked a short distance away, then turned in unison to watch the proceesings.
Why are you still reading this post? Go start reading this series NOW.
EDIT: And my favorite character? Man, that's tough. Probably a tossup between Kallor, Karsa, and Cotillion.
I love the philosophical aspect of the books. My favorite characters are easily + Show Spoiler +
Udinaas, Tehol, Iskaral Pust, the jaghut warrior army (with Hood ofc) =)
But there are also other _awesome_ quotes from this book. So many absolutely hilarious moments, some so incredible they hardly make sense which is an irony onto itself etc, you could keep on spinning the thoughts forever :D The epic revelations you get later on etc are also great.. ahh I love these books.
Also I have a question for you dedicated fans :-) It's from the last book, so unless you've managed to finish the series don't for the love of god click on this spoiler.
My question is regarding Sandalath, Tulas Shorn, Andarist and Korlat. I get it: Sandalath was raped by someone (WHO?) and she had Korlat. Tulas Shorn was murdered by Anomander (most likely) to protect a secret. Andarist was crushed by the loss (of what happened to Sandalath or just the whole conflict with mother dark etc). Are these related? Surely they have to be - yet I can't put the pieces together. Who raped her and who is then Korlats father and how is this related to Andarist and that man (sorry I can't remember his name) who died inside Draconus sword after creating a god to kill Anomander. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks for any help, this has been clawing at me for far too long.
This is genuinely my favourite series, although I wouldn't say the best i've ever read. But as said above I really enjoy the philosophical sides to the books, and also just the sheer epic feel of every book; the feel of how the reader has been dropped into a world rich with history and mystery. Oh, and the wonderful characterisation (in my opinion). Yes, Gardens of the Moon can be a little confusing to start with, but for anyone reading this to decide whether to give it a go, please soldier on... remember that your 'slog' through the series is nothing compared to the slogs within the series.
On May 30 2012 06:44 tronix wrote: My only question is: Does the series coalesce into a straight plot with main protagonists and antagonists? Or is it a series of perspectives on Malazan's history; with the readers retro-historical outlook as the tying bond between stories?
Personally I would say yes it does.
There are 3 main storylines that converges in the last three books.
Just finished Orb Sceptre Throne. It was fun to be back in Darujhistan, though the city didn't have quite the same feeling because a significant few of its old inhabitants were gone. Kruppe is always entertaining enough though.
Now, finally, I can saw I'm all caught up in the Malazan universe. Only took me three years of off and on reading to reach this point... I'll probably wait til the Kharkanas trilogy is finished and published before I pick up any Malazan books again. Esslemont may have concluded his series as well by then.
This is a strange feeling... I seriously have not read another novel in the past few years besides Malazan books. It will be nice to take a break.... I think I'll read some literary classics for a month or two (the prospect of reading a short 200-300 page book is so exciting!) and then maybe I'll read the Hunger Games or reread and get caught up in ASOIAF.
I hope I don't forget everything about the Malazan universe in the interim between when I read them next.... but I probably will. There's so much to remember >=(
Gonna contribute to this thread cause Im in the middle of reading the series...just finished the second book (Deadhouse Gates) and the series is fkn awesome. Would definetly recommend to any fan of fantasy. Like people have said the story is quite difficult to follow at times but pays off in the end. First book especially was confusing as hell at times -_-. Only thing I'm weary of is new characters being introduced every book. I'm hoping this is just for the first few books to introduce the main storylines and then have them play out through the series? Someone enlighten me. It was a bit of a downer to have basically a whole new cast from the first book to the second although the book ended up being a lot better than the first anyway lol. The chain of dogs storyline was easily one of the greatest things I ever read..Coltaine ftw
On June 25 2012 04:04 antelope591 wrote: Gonna contribute to this thread cause Im in the middle of reading the series...just finished the second book (Deadhouse Gates) and the series is fkn awesome. Would definetly recommend to any fan of fantasy. Like people have said the story is quite difficult to follow at times but pays off in the end. First book especially was confusing as hell at times -_-. Only thing I'm weary of is new characters being introduced every book. I'm hoping this is just for the first few books to introduce the main storylines and then have them play out through the series? Someone enlighten me. It was a bit of a downer to have basically a whole new cast from the first book to the second although the book ended up being a lot better than the first anyway lol. The chain of dogs storyline was easily one of the greatest things I ever read..Coltaine ftw
Every book is going to have a significant amount of new characters present, but each book varies the amount of new characters introduced.
The third book will have a lot of returning characters. The fourth will as well, but the first part of it puts heavy focus on a new character. The fifth book has a entire new cast of characters, because its on another continent. The rest after that have a majority of returning characters if I remember right. But yeah, as you said, they all are meant to tie in at the end.
Tried this book, but I couldn't understand wtf is going on so far.... just feels like random places and characters that gets thrown in to set up for something big later on. So far very confusing.
On June 25 2012 09:42 haduken wrote: Tried this book, but I couldn't understand wtf is going on so far.... just feels like random places and characters that gets thrown in to set up for something big later on. So far very confusing.
That's pretty much par for the course since with the Malazan series you aren't jumping into the beginning of a story, you're jumping into part of a world history. I'm at the point now where I just tell people to start with Deadhouse Gates (my favorite book, and I feel it's a better standalone introduction to the series). Love the series, but it's really hard to get casual readers into it, which all of my friends are.
On June 25 2012 09:42 haduken wrote: Tried this book, but I couldn't understand wtf is going on so far.... just feels like random places and characters that gets thrown in to set up for something big later on. So far very confusing.
Me too, like ~250 pages in the first book and still no idea wtf is going on
Tried really had to love this series but I just hate the writing style... Im reading the 5th book now and I have no motivation to continue. I liked Karsa Orlong and his journey but I have a hard time caring about any other character. I am not even a picky reader. I love almost any fantasy book but malazan somehow bores me.
On June 26 2012 00:30 Yuljan wrote: Tried really had to love this series but I just hate the writing style... Im reading the 5th book now and I have no motivation to continue. I liked Karsa Orlong and his journey but I have a hard time caring about any other character. I am not even a picky reader. I love almost any fantasy book but malazan somehow bores me.
Yeah, I don't seem to really care about any of the characters. I'm thinking it's the D&D showing through (I've never played any D&D so I think that's why I don't get the style much). There are a lot of cool characters and elements but I don't think I care about any of them at all =(.
Btw, for those who are having trouble with the first book, go read the Tor rereads which give absolutely amazing summaries and commentaries.
i really love the books now, i am halfway throu book 3 and its getting better and better, there are some people i dont like, felisin comes to mind in book 2 but oh well, as long as there are people like toc the younger / paran etc its all cool =) i hope for some more cotillion thou as i am interested in that person (dont ask me why)
I bought first and second book yesterday. I am only in second chapter of book 1 now, but its really interesting even from the start. Its confusing a lot though. One thing I have a problem with is geography. In my version of the books, there is a map of Genabakis (did I spell it right?) but I can´t find where is the actual Malaz city. I have a feeling its on another continent but the first chapter was very unclear about this. Is it true? Or am I just blind and its on the map?
On July 03 2012 19:49 Overpowered wrote: I bought first and second book yesterday. I am only in second chapter of book 1 now, but its really interesting even from the start. Its confusing a lot though. One thing I have a problem with is geography. In my version of the books, there is a map of Genabakis (did I spell it right?) but I can´t find where is the actual Malaz city. I have a feeling its on another continent but the first chapter was very unclear about this. Is it true? Or am I just blind and its on the map?
Haha, you got to buy all the books to get a sense of the world (map), but Malaz city is not on Genabackis indeed, its on a island somewhere!
On June 25 2012 09:42 haduken wrote: Tried this book, but I couldn't understand wtf is going on so far.... just feels like random places and characters that gets thrown in to set up for something big later on. So far very confusing.
That's what's awesome about the series, you actually have to think and you discover the world and various things as you go on. There's always unknown and mysterious things in this series, instead of the "usual" books that just server you everything on the platter as you go and require no focus. I found it confusing at first, and wanted to stop reading right at the start, but I'm really really glad I continued reading. That being said, serving things on a platter isn't bad per se, it's just that most books are like this so it gets tiring after a while.
This is my kind of book, fucking love Quick Ben, such a boss. Coltaine and Whiskeyjack too. Magic all the way. I'm currently on Midnight Tides, but don't have time and the start put me off a bit so I stopped reading.
Most of the books have the first half introducing the plot and characters, with the last 1/3 or so being pure mayhem and awesomeness uncovered as things start to reveal and happen.
Halfway through book 4 now...its a shame this series isn't more popular. If Erikson didn't cram so much lore into the series it would definetly be close to something like Asoiaf in popularity. His descriptions when it comes to battle scenes are fucking awesome. To me the series really shines when magic and gods are kept to a minimum....the chain of dogs story, karsa's journey, every battle scene in the third book especially capustan. It's when he starts going on about the gods and characters get lost in long lost warrens that the story starts bogging down -_-. Everything regarding the pantheon, deck of dragons, azath...doesn't get explained all that well imo. But when it focuses on the human characters its up there with the best I've ever read.
just finished memories of ice this morning, freaking awesome, gonna start house of chains when i go to bed
i am happy that i didnt give up after the first 150 pages of the first book and continued to read, its highly recommended and personally...its much better than a song of ice and fire
To me its hard to say which is better at this point.....Ice and Fire isn't done yet and Storm of Swords is still the best book of the 2 series out of all the ones I've read so far (on book 6 now). That being said malazan hasn't had a book as weak as Dance of Dragons either. And book 2,3 and 5 have been awesome. To close to say until Martin finishes the series for me.
The universe, the world and magic and all that history and mythic stuff is really great. There are some genius ideas, the Soletaken and the Divers or the believable mythologise of all the races, come to mind. The storyline is epic and sprawling, sometimes a little but out if control but never uninteresting. The world is full of uber mighty characters and if you think, wow, that guy is cool and a bad mofo, there already sits one waiting who tops the previous ones - and all that in believable fashion. And sometimes it is witty and funny.
But: the characters are shallow, most of the time he just tells and doesn't show them, his skill in philosophy is that of an undergraduated and most of the time boring. His dialogs are mostly cringe worthy and there are too many passages that are there without any reason! That means he needs a much better lector!
Is it as good as Agot? Although you can make a point for a case of apples and oranges, one thing sticks: CHARACTERS! Because that is it what makes AGot outstanding for a fantasy book. And that is in Malazan nowhere near the level!
I have finished the Malazan books and am currently on book 4 of Song of Ice and Fire and I do have to say that Martins character development far surpasses Eriksons. Which is hard for me to admit because the Malazan books are so dear to me and I love them so much, but you just don't see the same amount of development in Eriksons as you do in Martins. However the heavily developed universe really makes up for it in my opinion. Just different styles I suppose, they could both learn from each other I feel.
I was reading the series until I got side-tracked by R.A. Salvatore's series, The Legend of Drizzt....
I think I read the first 2 books and was on the 3rd... the only problem I have with the books is that they're so long... and there's quite a few boring parts in between
Yes, Xardean, you nailed it. The styles are very different and it happens that there are very good parts an both on them! But the style and development of Martin is just more mature and gripping.
Martin lost his way in storytelling, for now he will show everything, which is a major mistake for beginners, and I think his story outgrew himself, but he got better in his prose. I have hopes though...
I don't know if Erikson will become better in prose and dialoge and character development, or if this is even a must for the kind of story he is telling. But I have hopes here too...
My main problem with the series is the slow part in the middle. I found Bonehunters and Return of the Crimson Guard pretty long, but it's necessary to keep going. 7-10 are all really good, as is stonewielder.
Currently reading Orb Sceptre Throne. <3 the series. Considering a third re-read.
I think I tried reading this a while back and couldn't get past 50 pages... Is this the one that starts off with a battle or riot or whatever in a city and guards standing oh some huge wall looking over it talking about magic or something with some boy? After finishing American Gods I'll probably either give this another shot or give Kingkiller a whirl.
On August 13 2012 22:21 Dosey wrote: I think I tried reading this a while back and couldn't get past 50 pages... Is this the one that starts off with a battle or riot or whatever in a city and guards standing oh some huge wall looking over it talking about magic or something with some boy? After finishing American Gods I'll probably either give this another shot or give Kingkiller a whirl.
Yes, that is the prologue of the first book.
The problem I have with all of the books is that the characters understand each other very well and a lot of the motivations are just implied by gestures or short sentences, where I can't follow. Still very nice books, and also very good for your English vocabulary.
On July 28 2012 21:14 Twistacles wrote: My main problem with the series is the slow part in the middle. I found Bonehunters and Return of the Crimson Guard pretty long, but it's necessary to keep going. 7-10 are all really good, as is stonewielder.
Currently reading Orb Sceptre Throne. <3 the series. Considering a third re-read.
I never managed to reread it and i was up to 6 or 7th? part. The idea of rereading few thousand pages always discouraged me But generally great, great series. But tbh i stopped reading almost at all...
The minus for me was always not liking few characters (or maybe liking few characters way more than rest) and being stuck in reading thousand pages until i got back to certain period/stage i was really waiting for :p
I have to ask those who have read it - How are the characters in the series? Do you get attached to main characters? Are there even main characters? The OP kind of makes it seem like the story focuses on battles rather than characters. Characters are the most important part of story telling to me and I would like to know if this series will be disappointing to me.
A number of lead characters, and a decent cast of back ups too imo. Like other posters have said you enter the book when relationships are already well established. So it can take a few books to get a sense of the background behind each character. I quite liked this approach and really like this series.
On August 14 2012 09:24 Sroobz wrote: I have to ask those who have read it - How are the characters in the series? Do you get attached to main characters? Are there even main characters? The OP kind of makes it seem like the story focuses on battles rather than characters. Characters are the most important part of story telling to me and I would like to know if this series will be disappointing to me.
Best series ever.
characters are awesome, there's tons, but the author does a great job of having you really like the characters.
malazan is not an easy story to explain, it has many themes. Much of it is historical. The author is a trained anthropologist and it shows in the books.
the books do not hold your hand like many books, many times you will be confused, but you just have to keep going and the author requires you to use your brain and figure things out. but when you do figure things out and they click it's very rewarding.
On August 14 2012 09:24 Sroobz wrote: I have to ask those who have read it - How are the characters in the series? Do you get attached to main characters? Are there even main characters? The OP kind of makes it seem like the story focuses on battles rather than characters. Characters are the most important part of story telling to me and I would like to know if this series will be disappointing to me.
Best series ever.
characters are awesome, there's tons, but the author does a great job of having you really like the characters.
malazan is not an easy story to explain, it has many themes. Much of it is historical. The author is a trained anthropologist and it shows in the books.
the books do not hold your hand like many books, many times you will be confused, but you just have to keep going and the author requires you to use your brain and figure things out. but when you do figure things out and they click it's very rewarding.
I am so glad to hear this! The fact that it is really complicated makes me very excited as well. Getting the ebooks as we speak. Let the adventure begin...
On August 14 2012 09:24 Sroobz wrote: I have to ask those who have read it - How are the characters in the series? Do you get attached to main characters? Are there even main characters? The OP kind of makes it seem like the story focuses on battles rather than characters. Characters are the most important part of story telling to me and I would like to know if this series will be disappointing to me.
Best series ever.
characters are awesome, there's tons, but the author does a great job of having you really like the characters.
malazan is not an easy story to explain, it has many themes. Much of it is historical. The author is a trained anthropologist and it shows in the books.
the books do not hold your hand like many books, many times you will be confused, but you just have to keep going and the author requires you to use your brain and figure things out. but when you do figure things out and they click it's very rewarding.
I am so glad to hear this! The fact that it is really complicated makes me very excited as well. Getting the ebooks as we speak. Let the adventure begin...
I finished all ten books. I am on my second read through. Currently halfway done with bonehunters. Let me tell you it's evne better the second time around, because you catch things you didn't catch the first time.
This series is just absolutely amazing. I freaking love it!!
The author is working on more novels which are going to be great, can't wait. (novels set in the Malazan world)
BTW Scroobz, I'm glad you are enthusiastic, but it does seem the Malazan series is not for everyone. So maybe you should just buy the first book and see if you like it. Would hate it for you to buy multiple books and you don't like it.
the first book to me when I think of it now, is one huge prologue.
On August 14 2012 09:24 Sroobz wrote: I have to ask those who have read it - How are the characters in the series? Do you get attached to main characters? Are there even main characters? The OP kind of makes it seem like the story focuses on battles rather than characters. Characters are the most important part of story telling to me and I would like to know if this series will be disappointing to me.
Really, its all across the boards. Some characters feel terribly written and inconsistent, while others are remarkably unique and intriguing. There were a few big characters that felt like carbon copies of eachother and there were others that didn't feel consistent throughout the books in their behavior. But at the same time, there were some characters that were my favorite characters in ALL fiction I've ever read/watched. There are some real bad asses in the Malazan universe. Real bad asses, like on a scale I've never encountered. And that was the best part about it for me. Reading about the power-players. And many of the best characters are recurrent in a way that felt very unique: they would be mentioned by other characters across the world in manner that showed just how important/significant they were. It was almost like reading about a historical character like Hitler or Lincoln or Alexander the Great. There names were legends, so when you got to see them in action it made it all the more savorable. The hard part was reading the sections with the boring characters, that felt like they had unnatural character development and didn't add anything to the story.
The series is not very accessible. It's very difficult to start and get into, although a lot of people do say it's worth it. I found it to be simply too much "work" to read. It made reading unenjoyable.
On August 15 2012 10:06 lac29 wrote: The series is not very accessible. It's very difficult to start and get into, although a lot of people do say it's worth it. I found it to be simply too much "work" to read. It made reading unenjoyable.
The fact that you had to work at it made it that much more satisfying when you finished. Probably the best series I've ever read.
My favourite series by far, i really enjoy it when some plots/motivations are left in the dark for a long time. I'd agree that makes them much less accessible than other fantasy series, but i really enjoyed all of them.
I'm an avid reader, nothing more relaxing then reading instead of that dumb TV.
Must admit i had a lof of trouble reading them in english at first though, it is not my native language but that has never been a problem before when i bought books. This series gave me some trouble but i'll just reread them if i feel i may have missed something.
Erikson is easily the best current fantasy author, hands down. The creativity, the imagination just blows everything I've read out of the water.
Oh, and Hellian is one of the most hilarious characters I've ever come across. She and Tehol almost made me spit my drink more than once. And the Bridgeburners in Darujhistan are straight up hardcore. Forty odd assassins? Nps, we got this shit.
Haha it's funny because when I bought the last GoT book I saw this series and I thought it looked cool, I'm gonna buy it as soon as I finish "A dance with Dragons"
Worth reading then, yeah? I just finished all of Sanderson's Mistborn books, after powering through ASOIAF and Wheel of Time. Looks like I should pick this up :D
On August 15 2012 22:20 turamn wrote: Worth reading then, yeah? I just finished all of Sanderson's Mistborn books, after powering through ASOIAF and Wheel of Time. Looks like I should pick this up :D
I found Malzan the best of the three ( ASOIAF, WOT). As mentioned before, some of the characters are just more badass than anything you have ever encountered without being imba to the plot.
On August 15 2012 22:14 elt wrote: Anyone read Forge of Darkness yet? I've got it sitting on my Kindle but I haven't gotten around to reading it yet...
I just finished it, I don't really want to spoil anything though. It will be rewarding for those who have read the series because there is quite a bit of revelation (and likely much more to come in the next books) about the history of the world and how things came to be.
But there are certainly a lot of things I can nitpick about it. In all not my favourite but once you've read all the other Erikson books it's definitely worth it
On August 15 2012 22:20 turamn wrote: Worth reading then, yeah? I just finished all of Sanderson's Mistborn books, after powering through ASOIAF and Wheel of Time. Looks like I should pick this up :D
I found Malzan the best of the three ( ASOIAF, WOT). As mentioned before, some of the characters are just more badass than anything you have ever encountered without being imba to the plot.
Sweet. I'll pick up the first book today. I'm excited!
gonna start midnight tides today, house of chains was pretty good, i am so glad that i stuck with the books and not quit after the first 100 pages of gardens of the moon
Regarding MT, be aware that quite a lot of people have a hard time getting through it because the characters and the setting is very new compared to what you read before. However, upon completion and especially after being reread, many consider it one of the strongest books.
It is certainly one of my favorite books in the series.
How do the Ian Cameron Esslemont books compare with Eriksons work? Just got Crippled God and am wondering if I should pick these up for some more Malazan action after I get done with it.
I recently finished Crippled God, and I'm quite pleased with how the series ended, to bad that so many characters had to die tho, but I guess that doesn't come as a surprise for anyone who's read these books.
I've read the first 3 ICE books and while I don't think they're anywhere near as good as the main series, they're still worth the read. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary, etc etc etc.
Im on the 8th book and its getting kind of a chore to get through...worst of the series so far easily. Does it pick up again for the last 2? I think Erikson took a nap with this one first real dud of the series to me -_-
On September 18 2012 16:44 antelope591 wrote: Im on the 8th book and its getting kind of a chore to get through...worst of the series so far easily. Does it pick up again for the last 2? I think Erikson took a nap with this one first real dud of the series to me -_-
9th book was also kinda bad for me, but the last one will make up for all of your efforts, the 9th is just a set up for the crippled god.
On September 18 2012 16:44 antelope591 wrote: Im on the 8th book and its getting kind of a chore to get through...worst of the series so far easily. Does it pick up again for the last 2? I think Erikson took a nap with this one first real dud of the series to me -_-
I just started book 9, and book 8 went quite slow at the beginning for me aswell, near the end it does get a lot better though. There is just so many little story lines in Toll the Hounds that as soon as I reached one I couldn't be arsed with I just put the book away until the next day. As for Dust of Dreams I've enjoyed the first 200 pages or so I've read up to now.
My problem with this book so far is that my main issue with the series is more prominent than ever. Too many new random characters that I don't give a damn about. I mean am I seriously supposed to care about whats happening to all these characters in Darujhistan or Black Coral in the 8th book of a freakin series when theres tooons of other characters Id rather be reading about. Hell they shoulve made the whole book with only Traveller and Karsa and I wouldve been good
On August 13 2012 22:21 Dosey wrote: I think I tried reading this a while back and couldn't get past 50 pages... Is this the one that starts off with a battle or riot or whatever in a city and guards standing oh some huge wall looking over it talking about magic or something with some boy? After finishing American Gods I'll probably either give this another shot or give Kingkiller a whirl.
Yeah I found the same problem...
The characters seem to have mysterious dialogues that don't go anywhere and the author just moves on without explaining any of their motivations. The conversations usually involve a supporting character acting smug to the protagonist, and the protagonist has no idea what is going on (neither do I). It got really annoying after a while.
On August 13 2012 22:21 Dosey wrote: I think I tried reading this a while back and couldn't get past 50 pages... Is this the one that starts off with a battle or riot or whatever in a city and guards standing oh some huge wall looking over it talking about magic or something with some boy? After finishing American Gods I'll probably either give this another shot or give Kingkiller a whirl.
Yeah I found the same problem...
The characters seem to have mysterious dialogues that don't go anywhere and the author just moves on without explaining any of their motivations. The conversations usually involve a supporting character acting smug to the protagonist, and the protagonist has no idea what is going on (neither do I). It got really annoying after a while.
It can certainly be daunting to get into. Erikson doesn't hold the readers hand, but rather tosses them into the middle of deep world, in the middle of several conflicts and storylines, and then just expects them to keep up as the story unfolds. It's part of the reason I love the books but it turns a lot of people away from them. It also doesn't help that GotM is one of the weaker books in the series, I usually advise my friends to start with Deadhouse Gates (the second book).
It's not a series for everyone, but people that stick with it are usually happy they did.
On September 18 2012 16:44 antelope591 wrote: Im on the 8th book and its getting kind of a chore to get through...worst of the series so far easily. Does it pick up again for the last 2? I think Erikson took a nap with this one first real dud of the series to me -_-
Haha, yeah agree. I skimmed through a huge chunk of that book. It's sooo good in the end though, definitely worth finishing.
On September 18 2012 15:57 Baffels wrote: How do the Ian Cameron Esslemont books compare with Eriksons work? Just got Crippled God and am wondering if I should pick these up for some more Malazan action after I get done with it.
First Esslemont book (Night of Knives) I would say is not up to par with the other Malazan books. Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely not saying that Night of Knives is a bad book, I still liked it. You'll want to read it before the other two because of recurring characters.
Return of the Crimson Guard and Stonewielder are actually really good and are reminiscent of Eriksons writing style.
On September 16 2012 03:31 {ToT}ColmA wrote: gonna start midnight tides today, house of chains was pretty good, i am so glad that i stuck with the books and not quit after the first 100 pages of gardens of the moon
I liked Midnight Tides a lot, even though it was hard to get into because of the entire cast of new characters. I really enjoyed the Tiste Edur story arc, and Rhulad is one of the most interesting characters in the series.
On September 18 2012 15:57 Baffels wrote: How do the Ian Cameron Esslemont books compare with Eriksons work? Just got Crippled God and am wondering if I should pick these up for some more Malazan action after I get done with it.
Yeah, you should. His style is pretty similar. Also, you'll get to read about many of the characters and factions you've heard about in Erickson's books, and often wondered about. For example the Crimson Guard.
On September 18 2012 16:44 antelope591 wrote: Im on the 8th book and its getting kind of a chore to get through...worst of the series so far easily. Does it pick up again for the last 2? I think Erikson took a nap with this one first real dud of the series to me -_-
I thought Erickson's series tailed off towards the end. Books 9 and 10 were kind of a let down for me. The Crippled God was better than Dust of Dreams though, if its any consolation.
On September 18 2012 17:18 antelope591 wrote: My problem with this book so far is that my main issue with the series is more prominent than ever. Too many new random characters that I don't give a damn about. I mean am I seriously supposed to care about whats happening to all these characters in Darujhistan or Black Coral in the 8th book of a freakin series when theres tooons of other characters Id rather be reading about. Hell they shoulve made the whole book with only Traveller and Karsa and I wouldve been good
If you want more Traveler, make sure to read Esslemont's books. He covers him quite a bit. Also, I think they intend to do a whole trilogy on Karsa, which should be a blast.
It's not a problem with GotM, for me at least, I simply like a lot of the other books in the series more (especially Deadhouse Gates... loved that book so much). Me saying it's one of the weaker Malazan books still puts it above almost every other book available in my list =P Erikson's style just suits me.
Can't wait to get my hands on Forge of Darkness now that it's out in the US =D
I really want to read this book... Might be a while, because I am reading the bitterbynde trilogy, then Wheels of Time, then I will read this. So that's like 16 books before I can read this.. Unless I flip between books after the trilogy I'm reading, read a book of WOT then a Malazan, back and forth. Reckon this is a series I can have gaps between books and won't be very harmful to my reading experience? Reason I was thinking of reading WOT first because I read the first book and it seemed very accessible, whilst I read a bit of the first book of Malazan, and it seemed less accessible but potential for epic epicness.
WoT is certainly an easier read, but for me I had to put it down after going through about 3 books with the plot seemingly at a standstill. Jordan also had some quirks that eventually got to me (describing the same things in painful detail like 10 pages apart). That's all opinion, though, and I hope you find them a great read (a lot of other people have =D )
You could theoretically swap between books, but if your memory is like mine you'll miss a lot of the finer things. There's a large number of characters and plot arcs throughout the series which I would imagine would be a pain to keep track of if you're reading a whole other epic series.
Loved every single Malazan book except Stonewielder, Dust of Dreams and the Crippled God . Those three were just "ok" for me and the whole book 10 arc/ending got really messy and overly complicated in an attempt at an epic conclusion. Plus I really hated the way the Na'ruk hints and background presence during the series got wrapped up. Toll the Hounds was slow but I really enjoyed the book alot and Midnight Tides took some getting into but when it gets going it really gets going.
i am currently finishing midnight tides, started slow, as slow as moonsgarden imo but the character developement is awesome, first time i actually laughed reading the books cuz bugg and tehol are just awesome, i also like the whole edur problematic and trull is someone i actually like <:
Orb Scepter Throne was OK I guess. Great storyline concepts but I.E. just fails terribly in capturing the magic and character of certain individuals and places. I never got any Daruhjistan (sp?) feel during the entire book. Not to mention that he tried to cram in way too much into one book. The entire Kiska storyline could have been removed from the book and nothing would have been lost. The Antsy storyline really needed more work which would have gotten the room it needed then. He should really stick to his own style and characters and stay the hell away from S.E.'s very memorable individuals such as Kruppe and certain Malazan prominents. (Travellers plot was so awsome but so poorly/minimally executed. I r disappoint.)
Have high hopes for Blood and Bone though seeing how it should mainly be I.E.'s / brand new stuff.
first 100 pages of bonehunters and it feels like a different style, every other book so far seemed like getting slow into the action and this one is just keeping me at it from the get go, liking it so far hope it continues like that, could be my favourite so far even thou i liked every single book as of yet,
This was an awesome series, I finished it up a few months ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. I did find it a little bit hard to get into the first book though. I also found that Erikson was a little bit weak on the initial character building phase of many of the characters. Sometimes it took quite a while to realize he was introducing a new key character (I use this term loosely because there were soooo many characters), and not just another minor character who would be killed off or forgotten by the end of the chapter. It was sometimes
My recommendation would be to give the book time, it does take a bit to get into it, but it truly is an epic story in the end. Definitely one of my all time favourites!
finished bonehunters last night, the ending felt kinda "rushed" but the book overall was superb. starting reapers gale now, hope....need to get the last books too now cuz i am reading too fast =(
I am new the the series, having only read the first 4 before getting bogged down and stoping. However the audiobook for Gradens of the Moon was just released. This has reInvigorated my desire to read the series. And I can listen to it while at work! The audiobook is only like $15 so if you at all Interested in the series (and you should be) pick it up and see if you like it.
On October 19 2012 07:04 solsken wrote: is there a power ranking tree of some sort floating around anywhere? updated with the final book? Would be fun to look at...
Check out the Malazan empire forums, they discuss topics like that all the time. And they are also forums dedicated to these books, so while I love team liquid they are a slightly better resource for these discussions. They have a load of art and such on their site as well, if it is a bit hard to navigate. http://forum.malazanempire.com/
Love to see that so many people are enjoying these books, they really are a special treat and an inspiration to myself as a wanna be writer and Anthro major.
in the process of finishing toll the hounds, pretty good book, side story of nom and his crew is kinda boring but the whole andii stuff is awesome plus u cant ve enough kruppe
i am happy that scillara isnt getting what a lot of other female characters got (felisin (and the younger) and feather witch for example) sad stories to beginn with and going into hyperbole retardedness afterwards, always thought it was stupid..
kallor is pretty funny character even thou a wacko T_T;
For a long time I was quite the hipster when it came to literature, having only read most of Tolkien's work. I didn't really appreciate the fantasy genre. After I had watched the first season of a Game of Thrones I quickly devoured all the books, which strangely enough left me with a craving for more.
I found out about this series through this thread and started reading, steadily making my way through the first four books. I liked the uniqueness of the books and the chaotic way the universe unfolds. For some reason though I couldn't motivate myself to finish the fifth book.
The fact that Midnight Tides feels like it is totally disjointed from the previous books makes it a hard book to get in to. Perhaps I should give it another go.
if u read on and go past midnight tides it all will make sense, book 7 will make it clear, book 6 is pretty easy read as it is malazans again which u know from book 1-4
On November 17 2012 04:39 2stra wrote: For a long time I was quite the hipster when it came to literature, having only read most of Tolkien's work. I didn't really appreciate the fantasy genre. After I had watched the first season of a Game of Thrones I quickly devoured all the books, which strangely enough left me with a craving for more.
I found out about this series through this thread and started reading, steadily making my way through the first four books. I liked the uniqueness of the books and the chaotic way the universe unfolds. For some reason though I couldn't motivate myself to finish the fifth book.
The fact that Midnight Tides feels like it is totally disjointed from the previous books makes it a hard book to get in to. Perhaps I should give it another go.
Midnight Tides is a hard read for a lot of people because you switch story arcs so drastically. Just keep in mind that it is still the same universe and you are just being exposed to a different aspect of it. If you can power through the first large chunk of it and treat it like you were reading GotM again then it should be an enjoyable read. Some of the characters you get exposed to and discover are some of the richest characters in the entire series.
If you enjoyed the first four then give it another shot, the best is yet to come in my opinion.
I agree, i found Midnight Tides and the continuing story in the Kingdom of Lether one of the more enjoyable parts of the whole series, but it did take about half of book 4 to get into it.
I figured it would make sense in the greater scheme of the saga but it kinda kills the tempo if you have to grow attached to a brand new set of characters i guess. It might as well be one of the charms of the series though. No instant gratification. I'll soldier on : )
The 5th book is actually my 2nd or 3rd favorite in the whole series. It throws you off at first but ends up being awesome and pretty much sets up the second half of the series. I'm on the crippled god now and I have to say Im not enjoying the last few books as much. Up to Toll of Hounds it was awesome but since then its been kinda meh...still decent but if these were the first 3 books instead of the last 3 I dunno of I would've made it to 10. Crippled God at least is a bit better so far
But honestly I think that the whole Ammanas is Kellanved thread was revealed way too early and that it was fun for people to figure out (especially if you read the poems in GotM and figured it out). And then all of a sudden there's just a - "HEY GUYS! HE'S KELLANVED!"
Book 9 was the only book i had to fight to get through and it left me so worried and skeptical about book 10 and the ending of the series that the really mediocre (comparing to books 2-7) crippled god came as a relief and pleasant surprise
But honestly I think that the whole Ammanas is Kellanved thread was revealed way too early and that it was fun for people to figure out (especially if you read the poems in GotM and figured it out). And then all of a sudden there's just a - "HEY GUYS! HE'S KELLANVED!"
When describing these books to people I usually mention that Erikson looooooooooooooves his tragedy. Reading A song of ice and fire wasn't that hard for me after reading through the Malazan series. Real tear jerkers are ahead of you my friend.
I"m in the same boat as hox, got stuck on the first half of midnight tides. I'm going to start all over again as it's been two years now. Easily the best fantasy I've ever had the pleasure of reading, I would actually venture that its the best fiction I've read.
On November 17 2012 04:30 {ToT}ColmA wrote: in the process of finishing toll the hounds, pretty good book, side story of nom and his crew is kinda boring but the whole andii stuff is awesome plus u cant ve enough kruppe
i am happy that scillara isnt getting what a lot of other female characters got (felisin (and the younger) and feather witch for example) sad stories to beginn with and going into hyperbole retardedness afterwards, always thought it was stupid..
kallor is pretty funny character even thou a wacko T_T;
Kallor is probably one of my top five favorite characters in the whole malazan universe. I think I fell in love with him in the scene where + Show Spoiler +
Krul, Draconus and Nightchill find him on a throne in his realm of ashes. And he said he destroyed it just so they couldn't take it from him. I loved that part. And then they exchange all their terrible curses and what not
On November 17 2012 06:01 antelope591 wrote: The 5th book is actually my 2nd or 3rd favorite in the whole series. It throws you off at first but ends up being awesome and pretty much sets up the second half of the series. I'm on the crippled god now and I have to say Im not enjoying the last few books as much. Up to Toll of Hounds it was awesome but since then its been kinda meh...still decent but if these were the first 3 books instead of the last 3 I dunno of I would've made it to 10. Crippled God at least is a bit better so far
I agree with you. Midnight tides is one of my favorites, and I felt like the series kind of tailed off at the end as well. I didn't really like the last two books as much. But i'm very tough on climaxes, and very few books or movies climax in a fulfilling way for me
I need some input. My brother wants to get started on this series while we're on thanksgiving break away from school. The problem is I left books 1-4 back at the university (where we both go), which is on the other side of the state. He wants to start reading now since he has all this free time during break. I was thinking I could either start him on Night of Knives or Midnight Tides. Night of Knives would make sense chronologically, but it would spoil some of the content revealed in Erickson's first few books. Honestly, at this point, I can't remember exactly what it would spoil and how big the spoilers are. I believe everything that happens in Knight of Knives is revealed at some point in Gardens of the Moon right? It's all so fuzzy in my head I have a hard time remember what information was revealed when... would it be a bad idea to have him read NoK before GotM?
Otherwise, starting with Midnight Tides couldn't be a bad idea either right? Since it's content is mostly unrelated to the first four books.
Only have one chapter left to finish Gardens of the Moon. The first ~200 pages or so you're just bombarded with information that is kinda confusing, but then it gets a lot better when things start getting clearer.
I'm really happy I started reading this series, the characters are all so intriguing and the style of writing is great too. Just the initial presentation is a bit off imo, but that was the author's intention I think.
On November 20 2012 17:08 itkovian wrote: I need some input. My brother wants to get started on this series while we're on thanksgiving break away from school. The problem is I left books 1-4 back at the university (where we both go), which is on the other side of the state. He wants to start reading now since he has all this free time during break. I was thinking I could either start him on Night of Knives or Midnight Tides. Night of Knives would make sense chronologically, but it would spoil some of the content revealed in Erickson's first few books. Honestly, at this point, I can't remember exactly what it would spoil and how big the spoilers are. I believe everything that happens in Knight of Knives is revealed at some point in Gardens of the Moon right? It's all so fuzzy in my head I have a hard time remember what information was revealed when... would it be a bad idea to have him read NoK before GotM?
Otherwise, starting with Midnight Tides couldn't be a bad idea either right? Since it's content is mostly unrelated to the first four books.
Hmm it might not be an issue, you do figure it all out pretty quickly, and some of the mystery and confusion of the first book might not be so hard. However...
Remember the prologue of GotM? Where Cot and ST lay waste to that whole village and posses (in a way) Sorry? That was a huge mystery of the first book that you are trying to piece together throughout. it has been a long time since I read NoK and im really unsure how, if at all, that it would reveal the opening sequence of the series. Or for that matter if its even a bad thing
That being said I can't imagine that if he will like the books that introducing him to NoK would ruin the read for him. You might want to make clear though that the way NoK is laid out, the story structure and all that, is drastically different for the rest of the books. I would caution against having him read Midnight tides first, its a hard enough read for people who have a grasp on the universe, and as much as GotM leaves things unanswered Erikson still throws the reader a bone every now and then. With midnight tides he would be going into it totally unprepared. Is there a Barnes and Noble or other book store nearby where you could go pick up a fresh copy of GotM?
On November 20 2012 17:08 itkovian wrote: I need some input. My brother wants to get started on this series while we're on thanksgiving break away from school. The problem is I left books 1-4 back at the university (where we both go), which is on the other side of the state. He wants to start reading now since he has all this free time during break. I was thinking I could either start him on Night of Knives or Midnight Tides. Night of Knives would make sense chronologically, but it would spoil some of the content revealed in Erickson's first few books. Honestly, at this point, I can't remember exactly what it would spoil and how big the spoilers are. I believe everything that happens in Knight of Knives is revealed at some point in Gardens of the Moon right? It's all so fuzzy in my head I have a hard time remember what information was revealed when... would it be a bad idea to have him read NoK before GotM?
Otherwise, starting with Midnight Tides couldn't be a bad idea either right? Since it's content is mostly unrelated to the first four books.
Hmm it might not be an issue, you do figure it all out pretty quickly, and some of the mystery and confusion of the first book might not be so hard. However...
Remember the prologue of GotM? Where Cot and ST lay waste to that whole village and posses (in a way) Sorry? That was a huge mystery of the first book that you are trying to piece together throughout. it has been a long time since I read NoK and im really unsure how, if at all, that it would reveal the opening sequence of the series. Or for that matter if its even a bad thing
That being said I can't imagine that if he will like the books that introducing him to NoK would ruin the read for him. You might want to make clear though that the way NoK is laid out, the story structure and all that, is drastically different for the rest of the books. I would caution against having him read Midnight tides first, its a hard enough read for people who have a grasp on the universe, and as much as GotM leaves things unanswered Erikson still throws the reader a bone every now and then. With midnight tides he would be going into it totally unprepared. Is there a Barnes and Noble or other book store nearby where you could go pick up a fresh copy of GotM?
The nearest, which was in a mall in my town, has been vacated. So I'd have to drive a ways to get to one, haha. I think I'll try and have him read NoK. As you were saying, it might clear up some of the confusion in GotM, which would be nice since GotM can be really confusing upon first read.
still feel that traveller didnt get the time he should ve gotten
started dust of dreams some hours ago and as far i cant see why this is called one of the "boring" books, i am having a blast, probably has to do with the fact that i am in love with the tehol / bugg characters which make me openly laugh while reading....and i never laugh T_T;
as i am probably gonna finish the crippled god by the end of the year do any of u have read forge of darkness? or the esslemont books in the malazan empire (return of the crimson guard etc) and can tell me if its worth it?
@ToT, I just finished it a week or 2 ago too ;o Tehol/Bugg are the greatest characters i've ever read. After them, Iskaral Pust and Kruppe are my favs, then Paran. But the scene where iskaral pust and kruppe meet is one of the greatest literary moments of my life
On December 02 2012 01:53 LiamTheZerg wrote: @ToT, I just finished it a week or 2 ago too ;o Tehol/Bugg are the greatest characters i've ever read. After them, Iskaral Pust and Kruppe are my favs, then Paran. But the scene where iskaral pust and kruppe meet is one of the greatest literary moments of my life
still feel that traveller didnt get the time he should ve gotten
started dust of dreams some hours ago and as far i cant see why this is called one of the "boring" books, i am having a blast, probably has to do with the fact that i am in love with the tehol / bugg characters which make me openly laugh while reading....and i never laugh T_T;
as i am probably gonna finish the crippled god by the end of the year do any of u have read forge of darkness? or the esslemont books in the malazan empire (return of the crimson guard etc) and can tell me if its worth it?
Yeah, I finished FoD. It is a slightly different style (intentional), and I actually really liked it, although some people are mumbling about it. It gives a huge amount of background history in the present day characters of the Tiste races and it is quite something.
Esslemont is as you probably know, a co-founder of the universe with SE. He has written good books, but it is not at SE level.
still feel that traveller didnt get the time he should ve gotten
started dust of dreams some hours ago and as far i cant see why this is called one of the "boring" books, i am having a blast, probably has to do with the fact that i am in love with the tehol / bugg characters which make me openly laugh while reading....and i never laugh T_T;
as i am probably gonna finish the crippled god by the end of the year do any of u have read forge of darkness? or the esslemont books in the malazan empire (return of the crimson guard etc) and can tell me if its worth it?
Yea, the combination of tehol and bugg is just soooo awesome. Its just so amusing to read. I think i could enjoy a full book of the two just vagabonding around. :D Honestly I didn't mind the "slower" books. I loved to get some background information on a lot of the characters.
On December 02 2012 01:53 Teejing wrote: Just started toll of hounds on my 2nd readthrough. I am still wondering what to read next after having finished my 10 malazan books.
Yes me too... anyone has a suggestion?
On December 02 2012 01:53 LiamTheZerg wrote: @ToT, I just finished it a week or 2 ago too ;o Tehol/Bugg are the greatest characters i've ever read. After them, Iskaral Pust and Kruppe are my favs, then Paran. But the scene where iskaral pust and kruppe meet is one of the greatest literary moments of my life
The moment iskaral and kruppe meet is just so absurdly funny. =) But my favorite character still is Kalam.
(Information what happens in books before the 9th could be inferred) + Show Spoiler +
I so honestly hope that he comes back in the last book. Nearly finished dust of dreams now. Wouldn't kalam and quick ben make a great emperor + assassin duo? just like kellanved and dancer
I just finished the audiobook version of gardens of the moon, read by Ralph Lister. Great one, thumbs up from me . Guess my re-read of the series will happen as the audiobooks come out.
I wrote an Essay for my English Literature which was a comparison between Deadhouse Gates and The Lord of the Rings, and got full marks. Just shows though, that if it can be compared with one of the great fantasy works, the MBotF is brilliant.
Aw man I love this series. I'm kind of stuck at Return of The Crimson Guard cause I'm busy with school but this series is so good... so many moments I have to put the book down the book and contemplate the awesomeness
Whiskeyjack, whiskeyjack, whiskeyjack. My sig is actually from Malazan book of the Fallen. And whiskeyjack is the best character ever (tears up.... again ) Also I love karsa, and Trudd, and Fiddler, and Ben Adaephon Delat, or what about Anomander Rake or Kalam or Caladan Brood or Fiddler or Ganoes or Itkovian or Kruppe or Onos T'Oolan, or onrack, or Felisin/Ganoes/Tavoreor Toc (tears up even more).(Most run-on sentence ever?) And all the others. This series is so great but so hard to get into. Definitely worth it. And I forgot Tehol and Bugg Oo
Now I'm going to have to re-read the whole thing, damn you teamliquid.
On December 02 2012 01:53 Teejing wrote: Just started toll of hounds on my 2nd readthrough. I am still wondering what to read next after having finished my 10 malazan books.
Go read esslemont's books. They're pretty solid, and cover a lot of cool stuff in the malazan universe that Erickson's books leave unexplored.
Trull Sengars death as he knelt over Rhulad's finally still body felt so much more tragic to me than the Chain of Dogs. Didn't realise how much I loved Trulls character... Also Toc coming back and then dying And beak's sacrifice! Tragic book to me, and my favorite so far excepting maybe the second book.
By far my favorite characters are Cotillion, Tehol & Bugg combined (their conversations and antics are hilarious at times), and I now realize Trull.
Guess ill go buy the remaining books of the main series.
Trull Sengars death as he knelt over Rhulad's finally still body felt so much more tragic to me than the Chain of Dogs. Didn't realise how much I loved Trulls character... Also Toc coming back and then dying And beak's sacrifice! Tragic book to me, and my favorite so far excepting maybe the second book.
Yeah I agree. That was probably the most emotional scene in the whole series for me. + Show Spoiler +
Rhulad and Trull were two of my favorite characters. I'm usually alright with tragic endings. But not that one >=(
On December 02 2012 01:53 Teejing wrote: Just started toll of hounds on my 2nd readthrough. I am still wondering what to read next after having finished my 10 malazan books.
Go read esslemont's books. They're pretty solid, and cover a lot of cool stuff in the malazan universe that Erickson's books leave unexplored.
Yeah, definetely do this. Also Erikson has some loose novels on the Malazan empire himself as well.
When reading Esslemont, half of the time I do not even notice a difference with Erikson.
On December 02 2012 01:53 Teejing wrote: Just started toll of hounds on my 2nd readthrough. I am still wondering what to read next after having finished my 10 malazan books.
Go read esslemont's books. They're pretty solid, and cover a lot of cool stuff in the malazan universe that Erickson's books leave unexplored.
Yeah, definetely do this. Also Erikson has some loose novels on the Malazan empire himself as well.
When reading Esslemont, half of the time I do not even notice a difference with Erikson.
I concur. For better or worse, their prose feels almost identical to me. Except for Night of Knives. Esslemont wrote in a different style for that one. It didn't have that classical malazan style feel, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
Yeah, for all Malazan fans; once you finish the Malazan Book of the Fallen, go read Forge of Darkness! It poses and creates more questions than it answers, as usual, but it does clear up some things from the series in really interesting ways. The new story arc is also really interesting, I feel...and there are some trademark epic moments.
On January 03 2013 02:04 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: so... maybe it's just me.. but has anyone else gotten annoyed by how much erikson talks about silt or uses it to describe water and other liquids?
i feel it's said almost every page.. i love the story but it's becoming a pet peeve lol.
What's the reading order recommended by you guys? I started reading Gardens of the Moon and today I stumbled at a side saying it's the 6th book by chronological order. So I was wondering if I have done a mistake by starting from Gardens? What TL has to say about it? Read it by the published order or chronological order?
I started at Deadhouse Gates then went back to Gardens. Think that's what most people recommend. Worked out fine that way. Each book is it's own entity so you just have to take it like that. Sure there's a grand overlying plot but the fun is discovering what that plot is and how all these seemingly unrelated pieces fit together. Don't think you should worry about the chronological order tbh.
On January 03 2013 21:54 adiga wrote: What's the reading order recommended by you guys? I started reading Gardens of the Moon and today I stumbled at a side saying it's the 6th book by chronological order. So I was wondering if I have done a mistake by starting from Gardens? What TL has to say about it? Read it by the published order or chronological order?
Thanks!
It's not the 6th book in chronological order if you look at the "big series". It would be the 2nd with only Midnight Tides being earlier (and some little fragments here and there like prologues etc.). Just read them as it's intended, so: Gardens -> Deadhouse Gates -> Memories of Ice -> House of Chains -> Midnight Tides -> Bonehunters -> Reapers Gale -> Toll the Hounds -> Dust of Dreams -> Crippled God
Some say read the second book before the first one. I wouldn't, it spoils too much in my opinion.
The book that list as earlier on chronological order are not part of the greater story and are pretty much stand alones / background stories (or novellas).
I really want to read Forge of Darkness right now. But I have sooo many books to get through at the moment. Just started the second book of A Song of Ice and Fire (and want to finish the third book when the next season of Game of Thrones hits), got the Mistborn trilogy for christmas. Haven't read any of Esslemont's books, but Knight of Knives is also waiting. And then the sixth book of Joe Abercrombie is also out. That is a lot of books, don't know when I'll actually get to it
Reading through the series was one of the most entertaining experiences of my life (First part of my signature is out of Midnight Tides).
On January 03 2013 21:54 adiga wrote: What's the reading order recommended by you guys? I started reading Gardens of the Moon and today I stumbled at a side saying it's the 6th book by chronological order. So I was wondering if I have done a mistake by starting from Gardens? What TL has to say about it? Read it by the published order or chronological order?
Thanks!
It's not the 6th book in chronological order if you look at the "big series". It would be the 2nd with only Midnight Tides being earlier (and some little fragments here and there like prologues etc.). Just read them as it's intended, so: Gardens -> Deadhouse Gates -> Memories of Ice -> House of Chains -> Midnight Tides -> Bonehunters -> Reapers Gale -> Toll the Hounds -> Dust of Dreams -> Crippled God
Some say read the second book before the first one. I wouldn't, it spoils too much in my opinion.
The book that list as earlier on chronological order are not part of the greater story and are pretty much stand alones / background stories (or novellas).
It will be confusing no matter which way you read it. The way the books are written is not really linear anyway, he loves to intoduce a character very early, give no explanation at all and then later on, sometimes 1-2 books after, give his background and he turns to be a pretty important character. There are plenty of situations where you feel like going back and reading a conversation that happened a long time ago because some new information is introduced.
I'm just on the 6th book, Bonehunters, but it really feels like a series that you really take advantage of a second reading, there's just so much information. I also agree that starting with Gardens of the Moon is the way to do it. I didn't think it was that far behind some of the other books in quality and, like Eriksson says in the introduction, it will be a rough start anyway.
On January 03 2013 21:54 adiga wrote: What's the reading order recommended by you guys? I started reading Gardens of the Moon and today I stumbled at a side saying it's the 6th book by chronological order. So I was wondering if I have done a mistake by starting from Gardens? What TL has to say about it? Read it by the published order or chronological order?
Thanks!
It's not the 6th book in chronological order if you look at the "big series". It would be the 2nd with only Midnight Tides being earlier (and some little fragments here and there like prologues etc.). Just read them as it's intended, so: Gardens -> Deadhouse Gates -> Memories of Ice -> House of Chains -> Midnight Tides -> Bonehunters -> Reapers Gale -> Toll the Hounds -> Dust of Dreams -> Crippled God
Some say read the second book before the first one. I wouldn't, it spoils too much in my opinion.
The book that list as earlier on chronological order are not part of the greater story and are pretty much stand alones / background stories (or novellas).
Thanks for the answer, so far I'm loving reading the book even though it's still clouded a bit. Btw looking for a good and cheap site to order the rest of the books, if there are any I would love to know about them.
On January 03 2013 21:54 adiga wrote: What's the reading order recommended by you guys? I started reading Gardens of the Moon and today I stumbled at a side saying it's the 6th book by chronological order. So I was wondering if I have done a mistake by starting from Gardens? What TL has to say about it? Read it by the published order or chronological order?
Thanks!
It's not the 6th book in chronological order if you look at the "big series". It would be the 2nd with only Midnight Tides being earlier (and some little fragments here and there like prologues etc.). Just read them as it's intended, so: Gardens -> Deadhouse Gates -> Memories of Ice -> House of Chains -> Midnight Tides -> Bonehunters -> Reapers Gale -> Toll the Hounds -> Dust of Dreams -> Crippled God
Some say read the second book before the first one. I wouldn't, it spoils too much in my opinion.
The book that list as earlier on chronological order are not part of the greater story and are pretty much stand alones / background stories (or novellas).
Thanks for the answer, so far I'm loving reading the book even though it's still clouded a bit. Btw looking for a good and cheap site to order the rest of the books, if there are any I would love to know about them.
i agree with the guy you quoted.. i can see why some might find GoTM confusing, and can understand why you might skip it until you read the second... but i am glad i read it first
After seeing all of the rave reviews of this series around here, I started reading it last month. I'm now almost through the fourth book. It's a good read and I am enjoying myself. It is darker than I expected, and there are some truly depressing moments (like the end of Book 2). My only complaint is that a lot of the main characters are indistinguishable from each other -- particularly among the Malazans and Bridgeburners. Some of the characters are really well-done, though, like Karsa and Rake.
EDIT: Just to add a little perspective, I'm not really a fantasy fan so much as I am a fan of epics.
Some of the characters are just names, but as the books go on I think he does a fairly great job of distinguishing the important characters. Love this series^^
yea, like half the names are just names for the sake of having characters named, in the later books some of the malazans get some inside stories (deadsmell for example) but thats not always the case and not really important to the mainplot in any case.
still reading book 9 cuz of holidays etc i was slow
On January 03 2013 22:18 Malinor wrote: I really want to read Forge of Darkness right now. But I have sooo many books to get through at the moment. Just started the second book of A Song of Ice and Fire (and want to finish the third book when the next season of Game of Thrones hits), got the Mistborn trilogy for christmas. Haven't read any of Esslemont's books, but Knight of Knives is also waiting. And then the sixth book of Joe Abercrombie is also out. That is a lot of books, don't know when I'll actually get to it
Reading through the series was one of the most entertaining experiences of my life (First part of my signature is out of Midnight Tides).
Save Abercrombie's book for last. So disappointed. Im only halfway through it but it honestly feels like the man ran out of ideas.
Ahhh finally finshed the series...was satisfied with the ending. + Show Spoiler +
I was actually glad to see a happy ending after all the shit they went through. A sad ending would have sucked at that point. After 10 books and hundreds of characters it was impossible to think of an ending that would be 100% satisfactory but this was close enough for me at least on the Malazan side. I was kind of upset that my favorite character Karsa kind of turned to shit after the 7th book and wasn't even in the last 2 after spending sooo much time building him up. My only other complaint is that he should've spent more time on the actual conflict with the Forkrul Assail. Like at least half the last book instead of just the last few chapters. After so much buildup to that event the FA ended up looking pretty weak being taken out so quick. Sister Reverence in the tower is the only one that got a halfway decent death.
On January 03 2013 21:54 adiga wrote: What's the reading order recommended by you guys? I started reading Gardens of the Moon and today I stumbled at a side saying it's the 6th book by chronological order. So I was wondering if I have done a mistake by starting from Gardens? What TL has to say about it? Read it by the published order or chronological order?
Thanks!
It's not the 6th book in chronological order if you look at the "big series". It would be the 2nd with only Midnight Tides being earlier (and some little fragments here and there like prologues etc.). Just read them as it's intended, so: Gardens -> Deadhouse Gates -> Memories of Ice -> House of Chains -> Midnight Tides -> Bonehunters -> Reapers Gale -> Toll the Hounds -> Dust of Dreams -> Crippled God
Some say read the second book before the first one. I wouldn't, it spoils too much in my opinion.
The book that list as earlier on chronological order are not part of the greater story and are pretty much stand alones / background stories (or novellas).
Thanks for the answer, so far I'm loving reading the book even though it's still clouded a bit. Btw looking for a good and cheap site to order the rest of the books, if there are any I would love to know about them.
I'm usually buying books through bookdepository.com
rereading entire series for 3rd time now that I finished Forge of Darkness and well gotta say that book explains lot of things and complicates some even more :D
Got a Kindle for christmas and I'm wondering which books you'd recommend to read first, what you liked the most, and other books/series that should be on my reading list. I really enjoyed A Song of Ice and Fire, so it's based on that. It's in order by what I plan on reading first:
Gardens of the Moon (Malazan Book of the Fallen 01), Steven Erikson
The Name of the Wind (Kingkiller Chronicle 01), Patrick Rothfuss
The Darkness That Comes Before (Prince of Nothing 01), Scott Bakker
The Blade Itself (The First Law 01), Joe Abercrombie
A Shadow in Summer (The Long Price Quartet 01), Daniel Abraham
The Black Company (Black Company 01), Glen Cook
The Hedge Knight (Tales of Dunk and Egg), George RR Martin
Maybe/Eventually:
The Heroes, Joe Abercrombie
Embassytown, China Mieville
Anything to add/change/remove? Is Malazan a good series to start with?
I thought I read somewhere in this thread that magic was downplayed in Malazan; which I assumed meant not significant or is subtle~ like in ASOIAF. But judging from what I read so far (first 2 chapters), that's not the case; words like mage, sorcerer, power etc are mentioned hundreds of times.
It's pretty much the opposite of downplayed, magic stands central in the Malazan series. A bit more info can be found on wikipedia for example (reading the opening info should be safe enough) + Show Spoiler +
And yes I found it a good series to start with, I read it after ASOIAF and personally think it's the best. (probably because the style, content, etc. suits me really well)
Give the Malazan series an earnest shot because I think it's the best fantasy series written in a very long time. Magic is not subtle at all, but its use is not nearly as prevalent as you would think when half the characters are gods or children of gods.
Abercrombie is good, he pokes fun at a lot of fantasy tropes but I wouldn't try to read everything of his at once or you might suffer deja vu. Definitely try the first law trilogy and go from there though his latter work is much more refined. The Heroes is his best book, Red Country second in my opinion.
The Lies of Lock Lamora was a fun read. I haven't read the second though.
Rothfuss is really bad. If you like self insert bildungsroman bullshit that drags on endlessly you might like it. If you are into the wizard school shit The Magicians by Lev Grossman is probably better. Or if it's the coming of age part, Blood Song by Anthony Ryan was remarkably good for self published fantasy.
I liked Prince of Nothing but it's really flawed. It's far too rapey than any books need to be, the characters are almost all unlikeable and a lot of the battles are basically 1:1 rewrites of the crusades. His magic is really awesome though, it's definitely the high point of his books and the reason I've read them all.
Embassytown was really good but I don't think Mieville is the place to start if you want to read Sci fi, and I'm not sure if that's the best Mieville book to start with.
Read the Wool series, everyone should before they make an awful movie out of it
Been slogging through this series for a while now, didn't really even like the books until I was done with a few of them, but I commute by train so I needed something. Still don't think it's the most incredible thing, about 3/4 done with book 9 now. The series has got it's moments of absolute brilliance, but there is sooooo much in between that I really don't care about. Kinda looking forward to finishing and moving on to something else tbh. Not that I don't enjoy it, just a bit tired of it.
I know a lot of the storylines won't be tied up, but there are a few I will literally punch someone if isn't resolved.
On January 09 2013 04:17 Orval wrote: Been slogging through this series for a while now, didn't really even like the books until I was done with a few of them, but I commute by train so I needed something. Still don't think it's the most incredible thing, about 3/4 done with book 9 now. The series has got it's moments of absolute brilliance, but there is sooooo much in between that I really don't care about. Kinda looking forward to finishing and moving on to something else tbh. Not that I don't enjoy it, just a bit tired of it.
I know a lot of the storylines won't be tied up, but there are a few I will literally punch someone if isn't resolved.
On January 09 2013 04:17 Orval wrote: Been slogging through this series for a while now, didn't really even like the books until I was done with a few of them, but I commute by train so I needed something. Still don't think it's the most incredible thing, about 3/4 done with book 9 now. The series has got it's moments of absolute brilliance, but there is sooooo much in between that I really don't care about. Kinda looking forward to finishing and moving on to something else tbh. Not that I don't enjoy it, just a bit tired of it.
I know a lot of the storylines won't be tied up, but there are a few I will literally punch someone if isn't resolved.
Kruppe best character btw.
wait til you get to tehol and bugg
I've read a lot of Tehol and Bugg (soon done with book 9), definitely some of the highlights of the series. Also Shurq, cause she likes to sex.
On January 09 2013 04:17 Orval wrote: Been slogging through this series for a while now, didn't really even like the books until I was done with a few of them, but I commute by train so I needed something. Still don't think it's the most incredible thing, about 3/4 done with book 9 now. The series has got it's moments of absolute brilliance, but there is sooooo much in between that I really don't care about. Kinda looking forward to finishing and moving on to something else tbh. Not that I don't enjoy it, just a bit tired of it.
I know a lot of the storylines won't be tied up, but there are a few I will literally punch someone if isn't resolved.
Kruppe best character btw.
wait til you get to tehol and bugg
I've read a lot of Tehol and Bugg (soon done with book 9), definitely some of the highlights of the series. Also Shurq, cause she likes to sex.
ahh misread what you said, thought you said you were just done with the first few
finished dod, pretty good, not very awesome but good, thought it would be worse as many people seem to not ve liked it. only thing that was kinda stupid was the whole white face barghast stuff O.o and the shield anvil is kinda retarded <:
On January 13 2013 03:34 {ToT}ColmA wrote: finished dod, pretty good, not very awesome but good, thought it would be worse as many people seem to not ve liked it. only thing that was kinda stupid was the whole white face barghast stuff O.o and the shield anvil is kinda retarded <:
I liked Dust of Dreams a lot, probably my 2nd or 3rd favourite in the series. I just finished The Crippled God yesterday. It was a satisfying end to the series but no where near my favourite.
After reading the whole series my ratings would prolly go: 1) Memories of Ice 2) Deadhouse Gates 3) Midnight Tides 4) Reaper's Gale 5) House of Chains 6) Bonehunters 7) Crippled God 8) Gardens of the Moon (its been a long time since I read it will prolly be a lot better on re-read now that I know wtf is going on) 9) Dust of Dreams 10) Toll of the Hounds (only book of the series I really didn't enjoy too much)
I couldn't really rank all the books, but Memories of Ice was probably the most enjoyable. Just epic story telling with so many great characters. I struggled some with House of Chains, but mostly because of the introduction of Karsa, which I didn't enjoy much (so basically the first 200ish pages). I was also waiting for Icarium all the time, and then he only got one short unsatisfying scene, which made me a little mad. + Show Spoiler +
Icarium needs some more love in a later book anyway. Always described as THE unstoppable force once unleashed, he gets beaten unconscious thrice (Mappo, Karsa, Dejim Nebrahl), additionally shackled for one whole book, and once stopped by the Eres'al. And the sky fortress battle in DoD felt a little bit silly to me, even within the Malazan universe. The character is one neverending tease.
I'm halfway through the first book and I'm literally struggling to find the motivation to continue. I really want to like this series, and if I carry on I'm probably going to like it.
I just saw the first post recommending starting with book 2. My question to you guys is whether it's worth finishing book 1 now? Also, I kinda got the first part of the book, but since the story moved into Darujhistan, I don't have the faintest idea what is going on. The dream segments aren't making sense to me, I don't even know who the guy dreaming is, and there are so many characters I don't know who is who anymore. Admittedly I have taken quite a few long breaks in between reading sessions of this book, but is it normal to be this baffled at this point in the book?
On January 13 2013 10:32 Agnosthar wrote: I'm halfway through the first book and I'm literally struggling to find the motivation to continue. I really want to like this series, and if I carry on I'm probably going to like it.
I just saw the first post recommending starting with book 2. My question to you guys is whether it's worth finishing book 1 now? Also, I kinda got the first part of the book, but since the story moved into Darujhistan, I don't have the faintest idea what is going on. The dream segments aren't making sense to me, I don't even know who the guy dreaming is, and there are so many characters I don't know who is who anymore. Admittedly I have taken quite a few long breaks in between reading sessions of this book, but is it normal to be this baffled at this point in the book?
Thanks
Firstly, the guy dreaming refers to himself (as in talking(thinking) in third person, as in saying his full name, as is relevant for the books) constantly in the dreaming segments. Secondly, yes I can imagine some confusion over who is who, I kept messing up Rallick and Murillo sometimes. There is this 'dramatis personae' which might give you a clue on who is who again. Best thing is to read more consistent though. Being the first book and written around 10 years before the rest of the series, the quality could be considered a slightly lower standard. Finally, it's your choice if you want to start with book 2. It has a lot of different and new characters, but is a new story in itself. It would also spoil a great amount on the faiths of characters from book 1. but maybe that might help you focus on those characters as far as they appear in book 2.
The first book also gets better towards the end in my opinion, so I don't really think it makes sense to start at book 2. I wouldn't recommend it even if you were brand new to it though.
I just want to thank you guys for getting me into this series. I've seed the thread few times like 1 and a half year ago and started to look for translated version in Serbia. Finally found it and had enough money to get it. No regrets. In last few nights I've managed to read almost whole Gardens of the Moon.
Just popped by to say, I finished midnight tides about a month ago, <3 Tehol and Bugg. Some of the most interesting characters I've read about in a while. Especially love Tehol's somewhat cynical attitude and just the interaction between the two characters, GOLD :D
On January 13 2013 09:01 antelope591 wrote: After reading the whole series my ratings would prolly go: 1) Memories of Ice 2) Deadhouse Gates 3) Midnight Tides 4) Reaper's Gale 5) House of Chains 6) Bonehunters 7) Crippled God 8) Gardens of the Moon (its been a long time since I read it will prolly be a lot better on re-read now that I know wtf is going on) 9) Dust of Dreams 10) Toll of the Hounds (only book of the series I really didn't enjoy too much)
Thats pretty dang close to how I'd rank them. But I'd bump Gardens of the Moon up above to below Reaper's Gale and Toll the Hounds above Crippled God. And maybe swap House of Chains and Reaper's Gale.
Last night I finished reading GotM at last! After a bumpy start while I started and stoped reading it two times, I finally got the courage month ago and restarted reading it. I loved it! Even though at the begging of the book it's hard to get what's going on but while the book progressed I started to understand it more and more and by the 2/3 of the book I had a clear knowlage of which charcter was what and what's going on. So I'll defiantly recommend to those who have trouble to keep reading it. Just read it consistantly. The ending was really great.
Started reading the second book... god, this stuff is hard as hell to follow along in. It pretty much puts everything straight into your lap with zero introduction, as if it was meant to be intelligible only on the second readthrough. Half the time I have no idea who I'm reading about, what they are doing, where they are, and why they are suddenly important to the story. It introduces concepts in a way as if meant to confuse you, such as Diver's or whatever, which at first seems like a plural, but then at some point they talk about "a diver's" or whatever, and you slowly start to understand that it's the same thing as a soletaken, only to be left wondering if it's actually something different. It's ridiculously unclear.
The world seems interesting enough and I'm impressed with the level of the writing... I just have a really hard time enjoying it because my reading comprehension is being brought down to ridiculously low levels. Right now, I'm considering either stopping and actually reading the first book first, hoping that it will have some form of introductionary texts, or I will keep reading it, expecting having to reread the first part once I'm done with like half of it.
On January 13 2013 10:32 Agnosthar wrote: I'm halfway through the first book and I'm literally struggling to find the motivation to continue. I really want to like this series, and if I carry on I'm probably going to like it.
I just saw the first post recommending starting with book 2. My question to you guys is whether it's worth finishing book 1 now? Also, I kinda got the first part of the book, but since the story moved into Darujhistan, I don't have the faintest idea what is going on. The dream segments aren't making sense to me, I don't even know who the guy dreaming is, and there are so many characters I don't know who is who anymore. Admittedly I have taken quite a few long breaks in between reading sessions of this book, but is it normal to be this baffled at this point in the book?
Thanks
Haha don't worry, I'm in the 8th book and still have to look up the who is who and sometimes even then I don't get it because my name memory is approximately spaced for just 6 words.
On January 15 2013 00:33 Tobberoth wrote: Started reading the second book... god, this stuff is hard as hell to follow along in. It pretty much puts everything straight into your lap with zero introduction, as if it was meant to be intelligible only on the second readthrough. Half the time I have no idea who I'm reading about, what they are doing, where they are, and why they are suddenly important to the story. It introduces concepts in a way as if meant to confuse you, such as Diver's or whatever, which at first seems like a plural, but then at some point they talk about "a diver's" or whatever, and you slowly start to understand that it's the same thing as a soletaken, only to be left wondering if it's actually something different. It's ridiculously unclear.
The world seems interesting enough and I'm impressed with the level of the writing... I just have a really hard time enjoying it because my reading comprehension is being brought down to ridiculously low levels. Right now, I'm considering either stopping and actually reading the first book first, hoping that it will have some form of introductionary texts, or I will keep reading it, expecting having to reread the first part once I'm done with like half of it.
There is no introductionary texts to be honest, but from what I remember some concepts (like Divers) are introduced only in the second book anyway, so it wouldn't really make such a diference.
This is why I don't really think starting at the second book is any better, it will be confusing anyway. There will still be concepts you won't fully understand at first, but the first couple of books are probally the hardest step.
On January 15 2013 00:33 Tobberoth wrote: Started reading the second book... god, this stuff is hard as hell to follow along in. It pretty much puts everything straight into your lap with zero introduction, as if it was meant to be intelligible only on the second readthrough. Half the time I have no idea who I'm reading about, what they are doing, where they are, and why they are suddenly important to the story. It introduces concepts in a way as if meant to confuse you, such as Diver's or whatever, which at first seems like a plural, but then at some point they talk about "a diver's" or whatever, and you slowly start to understand that it's the same thing as a soletaken, only to be left wondering if it's actually something different. It's ridiculously unclear.
The world seems interesting enough and I'm impressed with the level of the writing... I just have a really hard time enjoying it because my reading comprehension is being brought down to ridiculously low levels. Right now, I'm considering either stopping and actually reading the first book first, hoping that it will have some form of introductionary texts, or I will keep reading it, expecting having to reread the first part once I'm done with like half of it.
as far as I understand it Soletaken are shapeshifters who shift into a single being. Diver's are also shapeshifters but they can form several beings like a wasp swarm, a group of cougars etc. I think one of the characters hints a bit that Diver's are spliting up their soul in order to be able to form multiple bodies.
On January 15 2013 00:33 Tobberoth wrote: Started reading the second book... god, this stuff is hard as hell to follow along in. It pretty much puts everything straight into your lap with zero introduction, as if it was meant to be intelligible only on the second readthrough. Half the time I have no idea who I'm reading about, what they are doing, where they are, and why they are suddenly important to the story. It introduces concepts in a way as if meant to confuse you, such as Diver's or whatever, which at first seems like a plural, but then at some point they talk about "a diver's" or whatever, and you slowly start to understand that it's the same thing as a soletaken, only to be left wondering if it's actually something different. It's ridiculously unclear.
The world seems interesting enough and I'm impressed with the level of the writing... I just have a really hard time enjoying it because my reading comprehension is being brought down to ridiculously low levels. Right now, I'm considering either stopping and actually reading the first book first, hoping that it will have some form of introductionary texts, or I will keep reading it, expecting having to reread the first part once I'm done with like half of it.
as far as I understand it Soletaken are shapeshifters who shift into a single being. Diver's are also shapeshifters but they can form several beings like a wasp swarm, a group of cougars etc. I think one of the characters hints a bit that Diver's are spliting up their soul in order to be able to form multiple bodies.
this is about right.. and soletaken are generally stronger than d'ivers
I added this series to the ”To read this when exams and other shit are over”, actually it might take first place. Right now i dont dare to start it cuz it might consume me. Sounds epic, especially this recommendation makes me wonder:
On May 26 2011 19:14 Jumbled wrote:
In fact, I came across this series years ago due to deciding to read A Song of Ice and Fire. I went to a library to pick up Game of Thrones, and picked up another book on impulse because it looked interesting. That book was Gardens of the Moon, and after reading a few pages it was sufficiently engaging that I actually put Game of Thrones aside and finished reading Gardens first.
On January 31 2013 22:32 Skilledblob wrote: just finished Memories of Ice and it's so depressing T_T
In my opinion, it is the most emotionally compelling book out of the whole series. + Show Spoiler +
The moment were Itkovian approached the Tlan Imass, and they all turned their heads at once, gave me the chills. His redemption of the Imass was the most powerful moment for me in all of the books. There were a lot of other great moments as well. When Whiskeyjack's knee buckled as he was fighting Kallor. When the Jaghut Seer was reunited with his sister at the end.
finished crippled god etc, after some distance to it i still feel robbed of an ending worth calling it. the crippled god for me is by far the weakest book, it all starts out as a normal erikson book and towards the end he seems to think "shit i gotta finish" and rushes everything and it feels bad to read it. only golden moment of the book was nefarian bredd
started night of knights yesterday, hope esslemont delivers as a writer.
On February 23 2013 04:37 {ToT}ColmA wrote: finished crippled god etc, after some distance to it i still feel robbed of an ending worth calling it. the crippled god for me is by far the weakest book, it all starts out as a normal erikson book and towards the end he seems to think "shit i gotta finish" and rushes everything and it feels bad to read it. only golden moment of the book was nefarian bredd
started night of knights yesterday, hope esslemont delivers as a writer.
yeah, i wasn't satisfied with the ending either. Mostly because it lacked a few of my favorite characters, and because it focused so much on Tavore, who I never really liked.
Esslemont's books are fine. Night of Knives is written in a different style, but the rest of his works are pretty similar to Erickson. They cover some interesting material
So im reading book 2. Loved book 1. But does this get any less grim? Literally wincing at the stuff I'm reading, waiting to be entertained rather than appalled. Almost stopped reading at some points and I'm only 300 some pages in.
On March 01 2013 11:29 Entertaining wrote: So im reading book 2. Loved book 1. But does this get any less grim? Literally wincing at the stuff I'm reading, waiting to be entertained rather than appalled. Almost stopped reading at some points and I'm only 300 some pages in.
Not in the least. In fact you could argue it gets much worse. The whole mood, and theme of the series is quite dark and raw.
On March 01 2013 11:29 Entertaining wrote: So im reading book 2. Loved book 1. But does this get any less grim? Literally wincing at the stuff I'm reading, waiting to be entertained rather than appalled. Almost stopped reading at some points and I'm only 300 some pages in.
Book 2 is the grimmest of the series, but also the one that I will remember the most. Books 3 and 5 are also fairly grim, but things generally improve after.
I'm going to give this series a try, based on how interesting the concepts are. I borrowed the first two books, and if it captivates me enough, I'll read the whole series.
On March 01 2013 11:29 Entertaining wrote: So im reading book 2. Loved book 1. But does this get any less grim? Literally wincing at the stuff I'm reading, waiting to be entertained rather than appalled. Almost stopped reading at some points and I'm only 300 some pages in.
Book 2 is the grimmest of the series, but also the one that I will remember the most. Books 3 and 5 are also fairly grim, but things generally improve after.
I share your sentiments, books 2 and 3 were the grimmest for me. But I don't think it was because the tone of the material changed as the books progressed. I think it was just because I felt less emotionally invested in the characters, and the story, towards the end of the series.
I've read this entire series.. pretty odd in terms of a magic system, but great books. I liked the Esslemont books as well, haven't read Blood and Bone yet though.
Just finished The Crippled God. Damn. Really sad to have ended it all. All of the characters were amazing (especially Kruppe, Iskaral Pust, Tehol, Bugg, etc). Definitely the best characters out of any book I've ever read, one of the most amazing magic systems/storylines too. All in all one of the better series i've read in my life, sad to see it end
On March 01 2013 14:24 LiamTheZerg wrote: Just finished The Crippled God. Damn. Really sad to have ended it all. All of the characters were amazing (especially Kruppe, Iskaral Pust, Tehol, Bugg, etc). Definitely the best characters out of any book I've ever read, one of the most amazing magic systems/storylines too. All in all one of the better series i've read in my life, sad to see it end
I actually thought the magic system was a bit.. magic. I much prefer Sanderson's and Rothfuss' magic systems, but Malazan is a beast of it's own and does other things far better.
On March 01 2013 14:24 LiamTheZerg wrote: Just finished The Crippled God. Damn. Really sad to have ended it all. All of the characters were amazing (especially Kruppe, Iskaral Pust, Tehol, Bugg, etc). Definitely the best characters out of any book I've ever read, one of the most amazing magic systems/storylines too. All in all one of the better series i've read in my life, sad to see it end
Funny how the four characters you mentioned are some of the most chatty/irritating of the series. I much prefer Karsa, Anomander, Gruntle and Tool. A lot of the Malazans/Letherii tend to blur together. Just finished Midnight Tides and the quality is really starting to drop since the first 3 and a half.
Yea I noticed that too Loved the first 4 or so books, but I put down whichever one I'm on now and I haven't lifted it since. Can't remember which though, it's in the attic somewhere - Wheel of Time seems way better.
Anyone read Forge of Darkness and waiting for Fall of Light?
I can't quite remember exactly how I felt about reading Forge but I seem to remember really looking forward to the next one. Will probably have to do a re-read at some point.
I really loved Tehol+Bugg - they made for an awesome and very funny duo.
@Scarecrow: Actually, a lot of people feel that MT is either extremely good or very weird (on the first read). I think it is because it moves away from all that you know up to this point and explores a completely new continent. However, upon rereading, most people actually discover it for the gem that it is. MT is generally considered one of the strongest books in the series, at least once you have done a reread.
FoD was nice, I really enjoyed all the ancient myths coming to live. Anything about when FoL will be out?
On March 24 2013 13:13 Stoli wrote: I'm about to start Blood and Bone.. I recognized like 3 names from the character list. It's typical of this series but I clearly keep coming back.
Haha, yea, I hated that feeling. That's one flaw of the malazan universe, too many characters to learn. And too many damn marines and soldier grunts that I don't care enough about.
You can usually get along just fine without memorizing the whole cast of characters. The books are so well written that the important ones will stick out by themselves and you will likely associate them more with actions and personalities than names after a while.
And you guys are all wrong, Hellian is the best character, hands down.
On March 25 2013 23:24 AoN.DimSum wrote: thank you for this thread! I just finished a song of ice and fire and need another series to listen in my commutes!
It definitely gets the intricacy down, and is a great fantasy novel, but it doesn't really read like ASOIAF at all. Far more soldiers in armies, gods, and mages.. much less noble families, political intrigue and vague prophecy (lots of vague though).
I honestly think nearly any Brandon Sanderson series, The Name of the Wind, The Lies of Locke Lamora are not just easier reads, but simply better.
I love this series but it's an odd one, and not that similar to GRRM. Give it a go if you like but yea, I wouldn't recommend trying to tackle it as an audiobook.
To each his own. Soo many superb characters in the Malazan books, so many plot twists, so many mermorable quotes. So little of that in Name of the wind. Some of the Malazan books, I read until dawn on the first read-through, now I'm on my 3rd pass.
since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
These books have everything you can look for in a fantasy, and maybe too much of it , but I really like it. Lots of characters, unexplained events. The unexplained parts can be aggravating, but there are so much gems in these books in conversations/humor/quotes, cool characters, etc
So in combination with the writers you mentioned, I couldn't say for sure, as I feel that Malazan Book of The Fallen is so excessive in scope that it his hard to compare to other fantasy series
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
This and Dresden. Only things in fantasy I would recommend now.
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
name of the wind by patrick rothfuss gets my vote. Two great books so far and less of an undertaking than Malazan books.
I love both, although with either I can see why people wouldn't agree.
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
These books have everything you can look for in a fantasy, and maybe too much of it , but I really like it. Lots of characters, unexplained events. The unexplained parts can be aggravating, but there are so much gems in these books in conversations/humor/quotes, cool characters, etc
So in combination with the writers you mentioned, I couldn't say for sure, as I feel that Malazan Book of The Fallen is so excessive in scope that it his hard to compare to other fantasy series
thx for the advice but I can hardly imagine this being bigger in scope then wot or feists midkemia series. im gonna give it a go now omw to the bookstore!
finished return of the crimson guard, very good book, hope the "talian princess" stuff gets some stuff in the next books else it would ve been super pointless to write page after page about it..
besides that its a super fun read and is very close to eriksons work, cant be compared to night of knives which was poorly written and only mildly nice cuz of the background infos.
started to read stonewielder know, kinda sad what happens to iron bars he was kinda cool
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
These books have everything you can look for in a fantasy, and maybe too much of it , but I really like it. Lots of characters, unexplained events. The unexplained parts can be aggravating, but there are so much gems in these books in conversations/humor/quotes, cool characters, etc
So in combination with the writers you mentioned, I couldn't say for sure, as I feel that Malazan Book of The Fallen is so excessive in scope that it his hard to compare to other fantasy series
thx for the advice but I can hardly imagine this being bigger in scope then wot or feists midkemia series. im gonna give it a go now omw to the bookstore!
It's far bigger in scope than WoT at least, haven't read the other series. It really does get to a point it may be excessive, but that depends a lot on individual taste.
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
These books have everything you can look for in a fantasy, and maybe too much of it , but I really like it. Lots of characters, unexplained events. The unexplained parts can be aggravating, but there are so much gems in these books in conversations/humor/quotes, cool characters, etc
So in combination with the writers you mentioned, I couldn't say for sure, as I feel that Malazan Book of The Fallen is so excessive in scope that it his hard to compare to other fantasy series
thx for the advice but I can hardly imagine this being bigger in scope then wot or feists midkemia series. im gonna give it a go now omw to the bookstore!
It's far bigger in scope than WoT at least, haven't read the other series. It really does get to a point it may be excessive, but that depends a lot on individual taste.
turns out my bookstore (the only one in town) doest have gardens of the moon bought rothfuss instead. ordered gardensof the moon online but will apparently take 9 days to arrive :/
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
These books have everything you can look for in a fantasy, and maybe too much of it , but I really like it. Lots of characters, unexplained events. The unexplained parts can be aggravating, but there are so much gems in these books in conversations/humor/quotes, cool characters, etc
So in combination with the writers you mentioned, I couldn't say for sure, as I feel that Malazan Book of The Fallen is so excessive in scope that it his hard to compare to other fantasy series
thx for the advice but I can hardly imagine this being bigger in scope then wot or feists midkemia series. im gonna give it a go now omw to the bookstore!
It's far bigger in scope than WoT at least, haven't read the other series. It really does get to a point it may be excessive, but that depends a lot on individual taste.
turns out my bookstore (the only one in town) doest have gardens of the moon bought rothfuss instead. ordered gardensof the moon online but will apparently take 9 days to arrive :/
gardens of the moon is an odd one. Dont be disheartened when you read it. The book can be confusing because it throws you right into the Malazan world without giving you hundreds of pages of introduction in this huge universe.
Background story is often told through comments characters make on others or certain events and often dont give you the whole explanation. This can be grating if you want to know everything at once but makes it feel so much better when you start to see all the plot points and background story form a coherent picture of the Malazan world.
Follow the characters on their journey and immerse yourself in the world how they see it. You dont have to know everything about Malazan to enjoy these books.
The biggest gem in these books for me is the Pantheon of gods and how they come to power. Malazan has by far the best Gods in any fantasy book I have read so far.
On April 23 2013 22:07 {ToT}ColmA wrote: finished return of the crimson guard, very good book, hope the "talian princess" stuff gets some stuff in the next books else it would ve been super pointless to write page after page about it..
besides that its a super fun read and is very close to eriksons work, cant be compared to night of knives which was poorly written and only mildly nice cuz of the background infos.
started to read stonewielder know, kinda sad what happens to iron bars he was kinda cool
Knight of Knives is the weakest in Esslemont's works imo, with Stonewielder being the strongest. He shows improvement consistently and apparently he plans to write up to three more malazan novels.
On April 23 2013 21:27 Wonderberg wrote: since im looking to start a new series, would you guyd reccomend this one when my favourite authors are brandon sanderson/terry goodkind(obv nothing after sot)/robin hobb (not the latest books)/early feist.
These books have everything you can look for in a fantasy, and maybe too much of it , but I really like it. Lots of characters, unexplained events. The unexplained parts can be aggravating, but there are so much gems in these books in conversations/humor/quotes, cool characters, etc
So in combination with the writers you mentioned, I couldn't say for sure, as I feel that Malazan Book of The Fallen is so excessive in scope that it his hard to compare to other fantasy series
thx for the advice but I can hardly imagine this being bigger in scope then wot or feists midkemia series. im gonna give it a go now omw to the bookstore!
It's far bigger in scope than WoT at least, haven't read the other series. It really does get to a point it may be excessive, but that depends a lot on individual taste.
turns out my bookstore (the only one in town) doest have gardens of the moon bought rothfuss instead. ordered gardensof the moon online but will apparently take 9 days to arrive :/
gardens of the moon is an odd one. Dont be disheartened when you read it. The book can be confusing because it throws you right into the Malazan world without giving you hundreds of pages of introduction in this huge universe.
Background story is often told through comments characters make on others or certain events and often dont give you the whole explanation. This can be grating if you want to know everything at once but makes it feel so much better when you start to see all the plot points and background story form a coherent picture of the Malazan world.
Follow the characters on their journey and immerse yourself in the world how they see it. You dont have to know everything about Malazan to enjoy these books.
The biggest gem in these books for me is the Pantheon of gods and how they come to power. Malazan has by far the best Gods in any fantasy book I have read so far.
yeah, don't re-read if you're confused, it will make sense in time!
Just started 3rd book of the series and man its awesome. 1st book was maybe kinda hard, you get thrown into the world and know nothing of it. Now that i finished 2nd book i feel a bit more comfortable :D
It makes me wanna reread first book tho, i forgot so much stuff already T_T but on the other hand i just want to continue with the series and see how world and characters develop.
I just finished the first book and despite being unsure if I liked it until past halfway, I ended up loving it. I'm starting the second now, not too impressed with all my favourite characters from book 1 not being present though. + Show Spoiler +
Hated that Lorn got killed off though, I liked her more than any of the other characters
I am intrigued by this series. I just got done reading the currently available ASOIAF books by Martin, and need something to sink my teeth in while we wait for the Winds of Winter..
How does this series hold up against westeros? I really dont want to be 'that guy' who compares everything to a game of thrones but it's really the only fantasy series that ever held me, so don't want to waste my money
Series is rich, but I feel like after about 5 or 6 books it gets so convoluted and large that its hard to keep interest. You can will yourself on because Eriksen builds up the story so well in the first books but it isn't nearly as enjoyable in the end.
That said, read the first one and see what you think. If you like a ASOIAF you may want to check out Terry Goodkind's stuff, though I know some people dislike his writing I enjoyed his characters quite a bit.
On April 25 2013 15:32 malaan wrote: I am intrigued by this series. I just got done reading the currently available ASOIAF books by Martin, and need something to sink my teeth in while we wait for the Winds of Winter..
How does this series hold up against westeros? I really dont want to be 'that guy' who compares everything to a game of thrones but it's really the only fantasy series that ever held me, so don't want to waste my money
Sorry to hijack the thread but if you are looking for something like ASOIAF read "The first Law" series by Joe Abercrombie. I tried every other standard recommendation on the internet: Malazan, Wheel of Time, Farseer Trilogy and i liked the "The first Law" the most. It is realistic, brutal, no real bad/good guys, REALLY nice characters with development, sex, death, gore, subtle magic usage. Everything I liked about ASOIAF
The First Law series consists of six novels and three short stories.
Trilogy: The Blade Itself Before They Are Hanged Last Argument of Kings
Standalone works: Best Served Cold The Heroes Red Country
I havent read the standalons yet, but they are supposed to be really good aswell. So if you like the series you should have enough material to get closer to Winds of Winter
On April 25 2013 19:14 Malkavian183 wrote: Has anyone read "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" by Stephen R. Donaldson?
In wikipedia it says it is closest to Malazan, I am at 7th book and I want another good series to continue after I am done.
The Chronicles are not bad, I would say the closest they are to the Malazan books is that a) there are demi-gods that do interfere with mortal affairs and b) that the fantasy world is not one of flowers and rainbows, but of unsavory stuff as well.
If you are more into the epicness of the tale, this one would be my recommendation, even though it is sci-fi, not fantasy:
On April 25 2013 19:14 Malkavian183 wrote: Has anyone read "The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" by Stephen R. Donaldson?
In wikipedia it says it is closest to Malazan, I am at 7th book and I want another good series to continue after I am done.
I've read them and the story is pretty good but I'm not really a fan of donaldson's writing; it seems like he's trying to emulate tolkien a bit too much for my liking but with a very different hero.
On April 25 2013 10:05 Agnosthar wrote: I just finished the first book and despite being unsure if I liked it until past halfway, I ended up loving it. I'm starting the second now, not too impressed with all my favourite characters from book 1 not being present though. + Show Spoiler +
Hated that Lorn got killed off though, I liked her more than any of the other characters
On April 25 2013 10:05 Agnosthar wrote: I just finished the first book and despite being unsure if I liked it until past halfway, I ended up loving it. I'm starting the second now, not too impressed with all my favourite characters from book 1 not being present though. + Show Spoiler +
Hated that Lorn got killed off though, I liked her more than any of the other characters
Oh, you will change your mind.
Was same with me, and i changed my mind!
I'm so sad that publishers in Serbia only translated first two books. Now i have to get a kindle or something and read it in English, which i haven't done so far when books are considered.
Just reached epilogue in Toll the Hounds. Man, each book ends with such epic climaxes(?). Every time. EVERY TIME. I'll be cruising along casual reading through the first first 75-90% of the books during commute THEN SUDDENLY WILD CONCLUSION APPEARS and I must oneshot the end of the book. No exceptions.
Probably much due to me not being well read, but this may be the first time I actually feel so much anticipation for eventually rereading a series. So many full circles. So much... knowledge to bring to the second reading.
But pretty much to add my backing to what has been said probably countless times in the series: 1. Yea, having favorite sets of characters disappear for books at a time made me sad. Until I came to realize that each new set is/was just as awesome. 2. And yea, the first book started out slow. Honestly, every book of the series starts out slow to me (especially the ones with new characters). But the endings, man. The endings. The slow starts also don't bother me as much now that I feel I know so much more about the world the series takes place in (compared to say... when I first read the first book lolol).
~~~
'some cute White Girl classmate recommended the series to me near the end of undergrad. Thank you, cute White Girl. Thank you. D:
On May 23 2013 01:25 Ame wrote: Just reached epilogue in Toll the Hounds. Man, each book ends with such epic climaxes(?). Every time. EVERY TIME. I'll be cruising along casual reading through the first first 75-90% of the books during commute THEN SUDDENLY WILD CONCLUSION APPEARS and I must oneshot the end of the book. No exceptions.
Probably much due to me not being well read, but this may be the first time I actually feel so much anticipation for eventually rereading a series. So many full circles. So much... knowledge to bring to the second reading.
But pretty much to add my backing to what has been said probably countless times in the series: 1. Yea, having favorite sets of characters disappear for books at a time made me sad. Until I came to realize that each new set is/was just as awesome. 2. And yea, the first book started out slow. Honestly, every book of the series starts out slow to me (especially the ones with new characters). But the endings, man. The endings. The slow starts also don't bother me as much now that I feel I know so much more about the world the series takes place in (compared to say... when I first read the first book lolol).
~~~
'some cute White Girl classmate recommended the series to me near the end of undergrad. Thank you, cute White Girl. Thank you. D:
I know! After you finish a book it's kind of like uhhhh I know my fav chars are not going to be in the next one as much as the previous one and before you know it you already like the new chars haha.
Currently up to the 4th book so... Hope it keeps going. Although some people are right - the world is getting so damn big I'm starting to have trouble with actually imagining it all LOL.
On May 23 2013 01:25 Ame wrote: Just reached epilogue in Toll the Hounds. Man, each book ends with such epic climaxes(?). Every time. EVERY TIME. I'll be cruising along casual reading through the first first 75-90% of the books during commute THEN SUDDENLY WILD CONCLUSION APPEARS and I must oneshot the end of the book. No exceptions.
Probably much due to me not being well read, but this may be the first time I actually feel so much anticipation for eventually rereading a series. So many full circles. So much... knowledge to bring to the second reading.
But pretty much to add my backing to what has been said probably countless times in the series: 1. Yea, having favorite sets of characters disappear for books at a time made me sad. Until I came to realize that each new set is/was just as awesome. 2. And yea, the first book started out slow. Honestly, every book of the series starts out slow to me (especially the ones with new characters). But the endings, man. The endings. The slow starts also don't bother me as much now that I feel I know so much more about the world the series takes place in (compared to say... when I first read the first book lolol).
~~~
'some cute White Girl classmate recommended the series to me near the end of undergrad. Thank you, cute White Girl. Thank you. D:
I know! After you finish a book it's kind of like uhhhh I know my fav chars are not going to be in the next one as much as the previous one and before you know it you already like the new chars haha.
Currently up to the 4th book so... Hope it keeps going. Although some people are right - the world is getting so damn big I'm starting to have trouble with actually imagining it all LOL.
Midnight Tides was almost too much of a change, but Tehol and Bug were incredibly amazing. Those two are my favorite part so far (starting The Bonehunters).
finished blood and bone last night. it started out good but then it got worse by the page. some storylines were good to read but for the most part it felt like this is the weakest book in the malazan storyline so far (excluding night of knives) gonna start forge of darkness this night. hope its good
So i red the standard 1-10 books 2x now and i am hesitant to read the other malazan books since i have heart they are not on par. How good are the other malazan books especially those not written by steven erikson?
On September 04 2013 05:23 Teejing wrote: So i red the standard 1-10 books 2x now and i am hesitant to read the other malazan books since i have heart they are not on par. How good are the other malazan books especially those not written by steven erikson?
i haven't read the storyline branches either, but if you decide to take a break from malazan i recommend (after seeing so many others recommend it here i bought it) The Black Company series. as i read through it i could see so many things that i knew directly inspired malazan - IMO it's better in a lot of ways, though it's less epic IMO. highly recommend
On September 04 2013 05:23 Teejing wrote: So i red the standard 1-10 books 2x now and i am hesitant to read the other malazan books since i have heart they are not on par. How good are the other malazan books especially those not written by steven erikson?
i haven't read the storyline branches either, but if you decide to take a break from malazan i recommend (after seeing so many others recommend it here i bought it) The Black Company series. as i read through it i could see so many things that i knew directly inspired malazan - IMO it's better in a lot of ways, though it's less epic IMO. highly recommend
I can't possibly recommend Black Company enough. Such an incredible series of books, I read Malazan after seeing the author wrote something on the back of The Black Company book.
started readin this... im so f-ing lost... i dont understand the magic in this world, i get that it s connected to Warrens but how when what, no clue. and some characters are gods, but are refered to differently... or does that mean there are gods, and then there are these High Shadow people, which is a separate chathegory?
there are no set-in-stone rules for gods and magic in the malazan universe. Its very chaotic, I would recommend not trying to make too much sense of it at first haha
i found the most enjoyment from these books by appreciating each showdown and "convergence" independently, regarding it as a moment, ignoring the details, and putting a little trust in the author. Waiting for explanations is a frustrating game to play; often explanations will come books later in the series.
On January 09 2014 18:01 Geo.Rion wrote: started readin this... im so f-ing lost... i dont understand the magic in this world, i get that it s connected to Warrens but how when what, no clue. and some characters are gods, but are refered to differently... or does that mean there are gods, and then there are these High Shadow people, which is a separate chathegory?
Take Gardens of the Moon as-is. There are some GotM-isms in there (like translation of the T'lan Imass for example) that are ironed out and kept consistent in the rest of the novel.
Things will be explained in time, and the interplay between magic and Warrens is sort of a plot point as well.
Also if it helps, don't think of them as gods, just really, really, really powerful assholes.
Yeah things start to become clear(er) around the second or third book, but all of them are relatively enjoyable reads. It's a patient person's series imo...I struggled to get through GotM too at first.
There are layers upon layers upon layers in this series. Sometimes, a few books along the way, you'll get an explanation of something that happened in a previous book and then it suddenly clicks.
I think it's best to read each book as is and gradually things will start to make sense. Somewhat.
There were many times where I was fed up with getting thrown in at the deep end in some new part of the world, with new characters and new "gods" and no apparent ties to the other books. Looking back though these are the books/parts I enjoyed the most. (I'm mostly talking book five here :D)
On January 09 2014 18:01 Geo.Rion wrote: started readin this... im so f-ing lost... i dont understand the magic in this world, i get that it s connected to Warrens but how when what, no clue. and some characters are gods, but are refered to differently... or does that mean there are gods, and then there are these High Shadow people, which is a separate chathegory?
There are things related to the Gods/Elder Gods/Ascendants that are only just explained or given significant detail to in the latest prequel Forge of Darkness.
My suggestion is to just read and let yourself be confused a little. The longer you stick with the series the more it will make sense, and more of its charm will shine through. Accept that you won't fully comprehend what is going on all the time, and it will probably be revealed to you and make you think back to that time in that other book when you didn't know what the hell was going on. Then if you're like me or a lot of the other fans you'll want to re-read them all again and gain a whole new appreciation for them
finished with Book 1, was awesome, even though i still dont get how magic works, but thanks for assuring me that im not even suppoused to. OK, i gathered some, there s this Tartot cards like prediction magic, and Warrens used for battle, each mage having his/her own.
Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: finished with Book 1, was awesome, even though i still dont get how magic works, but thanks for assuring me that im not even suppoused to. OK, i gathered some, there s this Tartot cards like prediction magic, and Warrens used for battle, each mage having his/her own.
Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
This is something you'll find happening more often; the last pages of the books are *always* much more exciting than the first couple. I've found that it gets better the later you get in the series, so as others have advised, keep going! It's worth it.
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: finished with Book 1, was awesome, even though i still dont get how magic works, but thanks for assuring me that im not even suppoused to. OK, i gathered some, there s this Tartot cards like prediction magic, and Warrens used for battle, each mage having his/her own.
Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
I didn't like the second book at first, either. But stick with it. It is the best in the series.
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: finished with Book 1, was awesome, even though i still dont get how magic works, but thanks for assuring me that im not even suppoused to. OK, i gathered some, there s this Tartot cards like prediction magic, and Warrens used for battle, each mage having his/her own.
Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
I didn't like the second book at first, either. But stick with it. It is the best in the series.
*one of the best
I would argue the 3rd and 5th book are just as good, but yea, the 2nd is definitely one of the top three. And it does start off pretty slow
Just be assured to if you enjoyed GotM you'll come to love and enjoy the characters and plot lines of the other events going on (if only because the characters are all pretty similar . . .). Deadhouse Gates starts slow but it is one of the big highlights of the entire series.
Can anyone please recap what was the Silchas Ruin subplot in Reaper's Gale? I'm starting on the 8th book, but I left my previous 7 back home. For the life of me, I cannot remember what happened in that particular subplot. I remember it was a journey with Silchas and two other dudes, but I have no idea who they are.
Thanks very much, I know it's pretty hard (as is trying to summarise any one storyline in this series)
Just be assured to if you enjoyed GotM you'll come to love and enjoy the characters and plot lines of the other events going on (if only because the characters are all pretty similar . . .). Deadhouse Gates starts slow but it is one of the big highlights of the entire series.
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
Poor girl, breaks my heart just thinking about her.
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
Poor girl, breaks my heart just thinking about her.
Her character is fantastic, one of my favourites in the series.
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
Poor girl, breaks my heart just thinking about her.
Her character is fantastic, one of my favourites in the series.
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
Poor girl, breaks my heart just thinking about her.
Her character is fantastic, one of my favourites in the series.
so far, i dont agree... yes her fate sucked so far, but there wasnt much character development, she immedatly was ready to do anything to stay alive, and blame others when suited her conciousness. we'll see where she goes from here
compared to Arya and Sansa in Asoiaf, who systematically lose their identity and turn into a sociopath and an emotionless puppet
On January 13 2014 01:43 Geo.Rion wrote: Second book is pretty lame so far, compared how much epic classhing was going on in the first, and how exciting the Tiste Andii were. Now there s not a word of Rake or his followers, and im reading 100 pages about Paran's kid sister selling her body -.-
Poor girl, breaks my heart just thinking about her.
Her character is fantastic, one of my favourites in the series.
i agree. however, fuck tavore
I think Tavore is awesome, along with Tehol & Bugg and maybe Shadowthrone my favorite character in the series.
She stays so enigmatic throughout the story. Honestly though, there are so many great characters in this that it's hard to pick favorites.
Just finished Deadhouse Gates. Man.. so sad, yet so angry at the same time. Coltaine was just too boss. Now I feel like I need to go back and reread GoTM before I start on Memories of Ice. I feel like I've already forgotten some pivotal points from it and MoI picks up where it left off. ><
On January 13 2014 08:23 ShivaN wrote: Just finished Deadhouse Gates. Man.. so sad, yet so angry at the same time. Coltaine was just too boss. Now I feel like I need to go back and reread GoTM before I start on Memories of Ice. I feel like I've already forgotten some pivotal points from it and MoI picks up where it left off. ><
Just go ahead and read Memories of Ice. You might feel like you're missing some things about Kruppe and Paran (such as details of his walk through Dragnipur), but it doesn't warrant a re-read. The 3rd book is a lot better than the first, wouldn't waste my time reading GotM again.
I just started House of Chains (Book 4). Don't really like this Karsa character.
It would be nice if OP or mod edit the title post with a poll or 2 on how TL-ers enjoyed/rated the book. I just stumble here and not sure where to find good reviews without reading spoilers T_T...
On January 13 2014 08:23 ShivaN wrote: Just finished Deadhouse Gates. Man.. so sad, yet so angry at the same time. Coltaine was just too boss. Now I feel like I need to go back and reread GoTM before I start on Memories of Ice. I feel like I've already forgotten some pivotal points from it and MoI picks up where it left off. ><
Just go ahead and read Memories of Ice. You might feel like you're missing some things about Kruppe and Paran (such as details of his walk through Dragnipur), but it doesn't warrant a re-read. The 3rd book is a lot better than the first, wouldn't waste my time reading GotM again.
I just started House of Chains (Book 4). Don't really like this Karsa character.
Karsa remains a self-centered ass throughout the series tbh.
On January 15 2014 10:49 SK.Testie wrote: The characters in this series really are amazing. Loved most of them tbh. Anomander best character. Ultimate BAMF.
I think Rake might be one of the most godlike characters in any series, ever. From your first encounter with him till the very end. He's so mind-blowingly powerful. I love how everyone, from Elder Gods to Soletaken fears and/or respects him.
On January 15 2014 10:41 NB wrote: It would be nice if OP or mod edit the title post with a poll or 2 on how TL-ers enjoyed/rated the book. I just stumble here and not sure where to find good reviews without reading spoilers T_T...
One thing i dont really get, and im not sure if it's inconsistency or i misunderstood something. I recall Rake talking with the Head of the Alchemists, about how his leadership is not uncontested, and others, such as Kaladan Brood (or even his own 2nd in command) would step in and take his role if he were to betray Darujisthan. Meaning he's the uncontested and independant leader of the Tiste Andii atm, in an uneasy alliance with Brood.
However, at the start of Memories of Ice the Tiste Andii are refered to as part of Kaladan's forces, and there s a sentence (i think Crone's inner monologue) where it's said that Brood never shown his own true power, nor did he let loose Anamando Rake.
On January 18 2014 19:12 Geo.Rion wrote: One thing i dont really get, and im not sure if it's inconsistency or i misunderstood something. I recall Rake talking with the Head of the Alchemists, about how his leadership is not uncontested, and others, such as Kaladan Brood (or even his own 2nd in command) would step in and take his role if he were to betray Darujisthan. Meaning he's the uncontested and independant leader of the Tiste Andii atm, in an uneasy alliance with Brood.
However, at the start of Memories of Ice the Tiste Andii are refered to as part of Kaladan's forces, and there s a sentence (i think Crone's inner monologue) where it's said that Brood never shown his own true power, nor did he let loose Anamando Rake.
So who's in charge?
I think its more of an alliance than one who is in change of the other.
Brood is considered to be a leader of the army (Warlord), but Rake is just Rake. He's too boss to have anyone command him what to do. Too unpredictable.
As for second book and talking with the alchemist, he means among Tiste Andii. Hes son of darkness after all.
Reading Memories of Ice, so f-ing epic and awesome, i cannot believe how vast this universe is and how interconnected almost all things are in it. That writer is a genius.
One thing which i find kinda funny though, in a rather realistic (not real, but logical in its boundaries) universe, these bridgeburners are a bit too fucking stacked. I mean it s one thing to have awesome leader such as Whiskeyjack, but they have the best f-ing assassin of the whole empire (Kalam), maybe not the strongest, but definetly the craftiest and wittiest mage of the realm, not to mention Paran who seems to be assending to become the ruler of the deck and the list goes on.
On January 22 2014 06:27 Skilledblob wrote: well the malazan army in itself is a bit OP actually. They got the moranth munitions and huge numbers of all kinds of mages.
In some plots it also feels like they have quite a bit of plot armor as well tbh.
well every major character has plott armor to some extent, tho I dont think it's that bad. Thing with the malazans is that they got a lot of strong healers that's why they survive when most other armies in the books would just have all those wounded / soon to be dead with them
On January 23 2014 07:50 Skilledblob wrote: well every major character has plott armor to some extent, tho I dont think it's that bad. Thing with the malazans is that they got a lot of strong healers that's why they survive when most other armies in the books would just have all those wounded / soon to be dead with them
Most of their wins, specially in the end of the series, just seem a bit too miraculous. For a series that attempts to be fairly realistic for a fantasy series, I felt it relies a bit too much in one in a million odds situations.
On another note in a fantasy world, the idea of a physical omnibus for Malazan makes me giggle. Beyond the fact that it would be physically impossible and so completely unwieldy it'd be the most hilarious thing to see.
On January 22 2014 06:27 Skilledblob wrote: well the malazan army in itself is a bit OP actually. They got the moranth munitions and huge numbers of all kinds of mages.
Since when does competitive balance matter in a fantasy novel?
On January 18 2014 19:12 Geo.Rion wrote: One thing i dont really get, and im not sure if it's inconsistency or i misunderstood something. I recall Rake talking with the Head of the Alchemists, about how his leadership is not uncontested, and others, such as Kaladan Brood (or even his own 2nd in command) would step in and take his role if he were to betray Darujisthan. Meaning he's the uncontested and independant leader of the Tiste Andii atm, in an uneasy alliance with Brood.
However, at the start of Memories of Ice the Tiste Andii are refered to as part of Kaladan's forces, and there s a sentence (i think Crone's inner monologue) where it's said that Brood never shown his own true power, nor did he let loose Anamando Rake.
So who's in charge?
Think of it as two forces that if truly let loose would destroy everything which isn't their goal. So instead they have an "alliance" in such that they share the same goal and don't use their full powers. A theme of the series is that power draws power so often powerful characters choose not to use said power in the fear of drawing even greater power. In memories of Ice Silverfox actually points out the "Malazan way of doing things" which is never being at the forefront of the conflict.
Brood could destroy the world if he wanted hence Crones monologue.
So basically noone is really in charge. They just kind of do their own thing and sometimes they lineup. Later on you get more understanding on Rake's motives and why the Tiste Andii are fighting but I can't remember which book that is in.
Maps are still too small to read compared to paperback, and it's daunting seeing "page 22 of 8142" but other than that it's pretty awesome having all the books in one file, at least I think so. I also had to strip the fonts because it wouldn't stop displaying times new roman on my kobo glo and that font looks horrible on my reader. But that I think is a kobo problem (or user error, but it seems terribly inconsistent with fonts unless I rip it out of the css)
I actually started ripping the ebook apart and making it into multiple files for each book because I thought it would be easier to manage, but I realized that's actually a lot worse than just keeping it as it is.
I still have a slight urge to go read my paperback copies though. It's just been so long since I've read a physical book, at least 4 years.
I started rereading it but couldn't handle House of Chains. Both those poor girls. I had also just finished watching Shinsekai yori so maybe I should try start it up again
I am considering getting into this series, but before I start I would like to ask readers two things: -What's the writing style? Is it the kind of book where only one exciting thing happens every 100 pages? I don't need an explosion every 10 pages to keep my attention but some form of plot development, action, or w/e every now and then would be nice. -Is it true what the OP said about starting with book two, and then read the series starting from book 1?
I am considering getting into this series, but before I start I would like to ask readers two things: -What's the writing style? Is it the kind of book where only one exciting thing happens every 100 pages? I don't need an explosion every 10 pages to keep my attention but some form of plot development, action, or w/e every now and then would be nice. -Is it true what the OP said about starting with book two, and then read the series starting from book 1?
Thanks!
Uhm, I've only read first three books so I'll try to give a good answer. 1. The books keep your attention. There's always something happening. 2. I started with book one, and I did okay. At first it is a bit hard because you get no introduction, not for characters ,nor current events, but you slowly learn about the Malazan world. That can be confusing on the start because you have no idea if some characters are more important than the others.
I am considering getting into this series, but before I start I would like to ask readers two things: -What's the writing style? Is it the kind of book where only one exciting thing happens every 100 pages? I don't need an explosion every 10 pages to keep my attention but some form of plot development, action, or w/e every now and then would be nice. -Is it true what the OP said about starting with book two, and then read the series starting from book 1?
Thanks!
It can be a slow series at times, some books are just better than others, and sometimes it's not because of a lack of content, the writer may just not be writting about what you want to hear about. It's not a linear story, following a certain group, he switches to diferent times and/or places almost every book. Some plotlines are also left unexplained for several books, or even the whole series, so reading through the whole thing definatelly requires some patience.
Specially in the latter books he also does a lot of development of minor characters that may not even be particularly important to the plot, so that can be a strong point if you are into how much he cares about detail and developing the whole world the series is based on, but it can also be annoying if you don't feel you care enough about the characters you are going to hear about in the next few hundred pages.
I wouldn't start on the second book. While it definatelly is a stronger book than the first, the first one isn't that bad. It starts a bit slow and a lot of things just fly over your head because they are left unexplained, but after some time it picks up and it ends up a fine book. If you don't have the will and patience to read through it for the first time, I don't think you would be able to finish the series. It's a great series, but not for everyone.
Thanks for the quick replies guys. Even though purely based on description it doesn't really sound like a perfect fit for me I'm still gonna give it a go because getting into a series that already has 1000s of pages written is so so sweet and the fact that apparently it's good enough to merit it's own 24 page thread.
Hi all, I think this is my first post in this thread although this is my favorite series of books ever. I rarely post on teamliquid, just lurk, although i have been on since 2004. I love malazan and my favorite characters are Trull Sengar, Sgt. Fiddler, Aspalar, Cotillian, and so many others. Kruppe and that insane shadow priest also hold a special place in my heart (donkey vs. mule fight!!!).
I recently found a really good band that is Malazan based which reminded me of this thread. They are atmospheric black metal similar to Summoner called Caladan Brood
Caladan Brood - Echoes of Battle
I have already listened to the album like 10 times in this past week and its really good. Especially considering this is the first album by two guys from Salt Lake City, Utah, Mortal Sword and Shield Anvil (they dont use real names)
So I just finished reading the first book, and I just have to say holy shit Anomander Rake, more like Anomander Assr***.. I have rarely read fantasy books so especially at the start I had to reread certain passages to confirm that yes, the fortress floats.
I understand now what people meant when they said the series (book 1 in my case) is hard to get in to. At the start it's a bit overwhelming to see so many different names of characters, locations, races, and types of magic all mentioned on even a single page. But I think that with careful reading and paying attention it isn't confusing anymore after the first 100 pages or so. So far I love the writing style of switching between characters all the time because it allows the story to cut the crap and focus on the good stuff.
I was wondering if you guys knew about something like a spoiler free wiki and possibly a comprehensive world map that has all the continents in detail, or is the series of small maps all there is? Anyways thanks once again TL for showing me this series because I think its gonna be an awesome one!
On March 27 2014 19:28 B.I.G. wrote:I was wondering if you guys knew about something like a spoiler free wiki and possibly a comprehensive world map that has all the continents in detail, or is the series of small maps all there is? Anyways thanks once again TL for showing me this series because I think its gonna be an awesome one!
There is no comprehensive world map. There's a few fan made attempts.
I think this is a pretty solid representation of where everything lies although it isn't detailed
You can find a collection of the smaller maps here and pair some up to fill in the details e.g. check the full map of Genabackis and see how the detail overlays with the continent in the fan map.
im reading Midnight Tides... i was happy after book 3 and 4, having understood more or less the magic, the god realms and got familiar with many characters.+ Show Spoiler +
(RIP WJ)
Well, fuck all that, let s talk a few hundred pages about the Edur who are unrelated to all that shit u learnt till now -.-
That's what happens. It's all related though(Actually really relevant too) you just don't know how yet. You get to meet Tehol now though which is awesome. + Show Spoiler +
I tear up just thinking about WJ. Honestly Malazan books are just a rollercoaster of emotional torment.
Dancer is also pretty cool. We just don't really get to see much of him unfortunately. Would love to read a prequel where we get to see all guys building the Empire.
On March 31 2014 00:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Tehol is the best character in the universe. Except for maybe Bugg.
well, yeah, i loved those 2 this far, but the other 20 characters with un-rememberable names in this book, i really dont give a fuck about. Fear is pretty cool i guess, but the rest, i cant even recall their names after a few days
On March 31 2014 00:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Tehol is the best character in the universe. Except for maybe Bugg.
well, yeah, i loved those 2 this far, but the other 20 characters with un-rememberable names in this book, i really dont give a fuck about. Fear is pretty cool i guess, but the rest, i cant even recall their names after a few days
you should be used to this by now! haha but yeah, the transition is a bit jarring. The characters will fill out though, and become very important. + Show Spoiler +
I love Rhulad's character, and the story arc leading to trull's death is probably one of my favorite arcs in the series
Although I'm only 200 something pages into book two I have to say I'm sad Kruppe isn't in it (so far). That guy is a baller, using his magic to steal food 'n shit. Hope he will come back in later books.
On April 05 2014 05:23 B.I.G. wrote: Although I'm only 200 something pages into book two I have to say I'm sad Kruppe isn't in it (so far). That guy is a baller, using his magic to steal food 'n shit. Hope he will come back in later books.
Never fear, Kruppe has a large role to play in future books. My personal favorite being an epic mounted duel far later in the series. That and a misunderstanding with a man with a rather large hammer.
Hi guys I have another question. I'm making good progress in book two (a bit more than one third in) and enjoying to so far. However, some names of creatures/beings still confuse me (specifically D'Ivers and Soletaken). I am pretty sure I haven't missed any detailed explanation on what they exactly are. I am tempted to check out the books wiki to get my answer. However I can imagine this could be a stupid idea because it could contain major spoilers.
So my question in short: is it wise to look up such terms online or is it sometimes necessary to the plot to let some of the names have somewhat of a vague meeting?
Ok then I indeed understand the most important part... Sometimes things happen so fast in the book that you can miss something important like the characters entering some weird ass warren just because you accidentally skipped a line of text... Still, it's a good exercise in concentrated reading for me
Just picked up book 3 again now that I have some time to continue my re-read, and damn some parts are tough to read when you know what's gonna happen...
On April 11 2014 16:47 Nisyax wrote: Just picked up book 3 again now that I have some time to continue my re-read, and damn some parts are though to read when you know what's gonna happen...
I stopped my rereading of the series because I couldn't handle it. Maybe i'm just a pussy but it was way easier to read when I didn't know what was going to happen ;(
Just starting on this series. As a huge fantasy fan I'm a little disappointed in myself for getting to this so late. Really excited for another long epic after finishing the Wheel of Time last year, and I've heard this is significantly more complex so that should be fun.
I've heard some people have difficulty keeping up with everything that's happening, any advice for someone just getting started?
As a recent starter myself here are my tips: -Pay close attention. Unlike many other books Erikson does not have lengthy descriptions of landscapes or occurrences. Important changes or revelations are sometimes described in as little as 2 or 3 lines of text. - Shit is confusing as hell the first 100 pages, but after 200 pages or so you start getting a grip on what is actually going on. -Details. Pay attention to them.
I feel a bit that if you are confused, it is probably because the character you are reading about is intended to be confused, so the writing is confusing.
Just keep reading, really. Sometimes certain concepts or races etc will be introduced to the reader without explanation but eventually things will start to make sense. That can happen in the next chapter or even a few books down the line.
Also, don't feel obligated to remember all the minor characters, the ones that matter will stick.
Ok so I just finished reading Deadhouse Gates. I agree with the sentiment of some people that Deadhouse Gates is a better written story, but overall I enjoyed the characters of Gardens of the Moon more. I was so frustrated near the end when (spoiler alert) + Show Spoiler +
fucking pormqual lets EVERYONE get butchered or tortured to death and coltaine doesn't even get his props..and he gets away with just a beheading ffs... oh well
The story can still be somewhat confusing at times with things such as random dragon appearances, but by now I have learned to simply take note of such cameos and trust that at some point it will make sense. Another spoiler: + Show Spoiler +
I'm guessing that the two cameos of the big undead dragon might have something to do with the crippled god that is probably going to play a big role in the story from now on.
All in all another great read that keeps training my abilities to understand sometimes confusing texts and forces me to pay close attention to every word. Can't wait to start the next book to the true hero of the story: Kruppe.
Man, I love Steven Eriksson. Best fantasy series I've ever read to be honest. The depth of the world's history and the wonderful combination of gritty realism and high fantasy really struck a chord with me.
The thing I love the most with the books is how much you can discuss about them. The books are so crammed with information and fantastic characters that it's impossible to pick up everything by yourself. I read it with two other friends and we can still, three years later, go into long discussions on implications of certain things or just reminicing about the various adventures of the series. Sometimes someone will bring a fresh perspective on some occurance and it's like you see the whole thing in a different light all over again.
Definitely gets better as it progresess, I personally disliked the first two books to the extent that I wanted to quit, but my friends insisted that it would be worth it and boy were they right
I've got nothing much to add to the thread besides that I'm happy to see others reading and discussing these wonderful books!
I just started this series as it was recommended to me by a friend when I was looking for something 'Game of Thrones-ish'. I'm only about 150 pages into book 1 (Gardens of the Moon) so I have a long way to go but I already enjoy the authors rich descriptive style. I get a bit lost here and there as starting any multi-book fantasy epic is always confusing with people, places, names, etc., but nothing too unmanageable or annoying. I've heard the story becomes quite amazing as the series continues with book 1 being the hardest to stomach. I've already promised a friend to read at least the first two before 'quitting' but so far, I can't see myself stopping anytime soon.
I'm at about 800 pages into book three now (so 2/3 I guess) and I have to say that this book really kicks the series up a notch, especially with the introduction of + Show Spoiler +
the crippled god
(who I assume is going to play a rather important role in the series). It gives a bit of a sense of what the long term story might look like. I just don't understand why everybody suddenly decided to be a dick to my man Kruppe? Wtf did he do wrong?
On June 14 2014 00:51 Elyvilon wrote: This is probably my favorite epic fantasy series.
Has anyone here read Forge of Darkness? If so, how is it?
I read it last year, although my memory is foggy about it. It starts a bit slow, but gets better later. You have to pay attention to connect it with the main series. For example + Show Spoiler +
There is a character named T'riss and I realized two weeks ago when re-reading House of Chains that the Queen of Dreams is named T'riss. Which is pretty obvious actually, but I failed to realize back then.
Plenty of mystery, extra information on characters and of course speculation on several identities.
So there is one thing i kinda do not understand: if ammanas and cotillion intend to kill surly whats stopping them from just warping in there and letting their dogs shred her to pieces? Or are the likes of tayschrenn powerful enough to give them pause?
On June 17 2014 14:11 B.I.G. wrote: So there is one thing i kinda do not understand: if ammanas and cotillion intend to kill surly whats stopping them from just warping in there and letting their dogs shred her to pieces? Or are the likes of tayschrenn powerful enough to give them pause?
I'm about 300 pages into house of chains (book 4). But based on what I've read so far there is probably a damn good reason. Basically I guess I'm a little unclear on how the 'power levels' are divided, as it seems that for example Raest is unimpressed by gods in general even though he technically isn't ascended right? Icarium is another example of someone who seems godlike but apparently isn't.
Maybe the point is that I'm not supposed to know xD
5 months and 5 books finished I have to say that the it seems to just keep getting better for me. I honestly don't understand why so many people complain about gardens of the moon and midnight tides, because in my opinion those two might actually be the best. The only thing that beats the Tehol/Bugg bromance is the Toc/Tool bromance in memories of ice.
Never thought I would be able to stick with the daunting wall of complicated text this series has thusfar proven to be, but Mr. Erikson's writing single handedly has brought out the reader in me. At this pace it'll take me a year to finish the entire series but it's been so worth it so far!
I think the best thing about the Books is that while they are all connected you can take each individual book on it's own so it doesn't become too daunting. As for your previous post I don't really want to say too much. There's certain reasons for Icarium being like he is but I'm not sure if you have read about them yet. As for power levels it's a bit iffy. Basically the "old gods" are all extremely powerful yet not powerful at all. It's kind of weird. Again it gets a bit more explained as you go on but basically think of it as the old gods using a different system than the newer ones. This causes some issues between the two. So Raest is of an ancient race that was before the new gods. The key difference is in old times there was basically no subtlety just pure brutality where as now it's way more refined and subtle. Someone like Raest doesn't appreciate anything besides pure strength.
On August 19 2014 00:05 B.I.G. wrote: 5 months and 5 books finished I have to say that the it seems to just keep getting better for me. I honestly don't understand why so many people complain about gardens of the moon and midnight tides, because in my opinion those two might actually be the best. The only thing that beats the Tehol/Bugg bromance is the Toc/Tool bromance in memories of ice.
Never thought I would be able to stick with the daunting wall of complicated text this series has thusfar proven to be, but Mr. Erikson's writing single handedly has brought out the reader in me. At this pace it'll take me a year to finish the entire series but it's been so worth it so far!
GOTM has a lot of detractors because of it's nature. It was started a long time before the others and it just throws you straight into a vast and complex world. Also as to your powerlevel questions it's very fluid. A lot of characters will come off as top tier but be beaten by characters you can consider than them. Malazan has a huge "don't mess with mortals" theme. Raest and Icarium are both powerful because jaghut are naturally strong and who their fathers are (I can't remember when this is revealed). Icarium also draws on chaos when he's enraged which powers him up quite a bit. Raest just has the nasty ability of enslaving things around him, he's quite a powerhouse on his own but you run the risk of him enslaving others, especially if T'lan are involved.
Yeah I realize now that pretty much every character is complicated and has many reasons for being the way they are. And similar to Greek mythology power is described in more of a "poetic" way rather than a structured Dragonball Z-powerlevel-over-9000 kind of way.
I'm currently reading the 8th book, and in the 6th book, they say he disappeared in the imperial warren, probably died. I was like, sure, sure, they're gonna kill off-stage one of the coolest side character, the Clawmaster, but havent heard anything from him.
Did the author just write him out from the series for no apparent reason? No need to spoil the details, just yes or no.
I'm also a bit confuddled about him, but the side books by Esslemont give some sideways detail on it. There are also a bit of clues in the Pearl stuff.
On August 25 2014 21:01 Geo.Rion wrote: I have a question. Where the hell is Topper?
I'm currently reading the 8th book, and in the 6th book, they say he disappeared in the imperial warren, probably died. I was like, sure, sure, they're gonna kill off-stage one of the coolest side character, the Clawmaster, but havent heard anything from him.
Did the author just write him out from the series for no apparent reason? No need to spoil the details, just yes or no.
On August 25 2014 21:01 Geo.Rion wrote: I have a question. Where the hell is Topper?
I'm currently reading the 8th book, and in the 6th book, they say he disappeared in the imperial warren, probably died. I was like, sure, sure, they're gonna kill off-stage one of the coolest side character, the Clawmaster, but havent heard anything from him.
Did the author just write him out from the series for no apparent reason? No need to spoil the details, just yes or no.
About 1/3 of the way through crippled god and I'm a bit sad that it is all going to come to an end soon. One of the best series I've ever read.
Was looking around and apparently Assail is out. Is it worth reading? Would be kind of nice to find out wtf is going on there plus what happened to + Show Spoiler [Minor Book 3 Spoiler] +
I read the 6 first books and now since 7/8 months i haven't read the followup. It is super frustrating as i invested a lot of time and patience in this books. Reading summaries online when i didn't understands the chapters and or characters, english is not my native language!
And now i just don't find the motivation anymore to restart the series with book 7 and or book 1 as i realize i don't remember all that much from the plot, characters (so many of them), sigh!
Just finished the Bone Hunters. Six down four to go. Sad to see some of the characters die (although seeing as how this is the malazan universe there is a pretty decent chance of them coming back in some way). Hoping for more Anomander Rake and Kruppe stuff since I kind of enjoy the whole Genabackis story more.
On August 30 2014 04:04 CaM27 wrote: I apologize in advance! This is a bit of rant!
I read the 6 first books and now since 7/8 months i haven't read the followup. It is super frustrating as i invested a lot of time and patience in this books. Reading summaries online when i didn't understands the chapters and or characters, english is not my native language!
And now i just don't find the motivation anymore to restart the series with book 7 and or book 1 as i realize i don't remember all that much from the plot, characters (so many of them), sigh!
I encourage you to just pick up where you left off, for three main reasons.
1. Lots of things u think u forgot gonna come back 2. U do not require to know everything and everyone, in fact the story kinda assumes you forgot half the stuff, cuz explains and introduces important things several times (or leaves things ambivelent, so you have info about it but u re not really sure either way), and it progresses forward in a way that it's not super important who did what, that just kinda makes things more interesting, the plotlines and the overarching story progresses anyways. 3. I think this series must be re-read anyway. I sure as hell will sometime after i finished. Now i confess i DLd the books, but once i'm finished and I find the actual books somewhere in a book-store (havent yet), i'm buying and re-reading them.
Oh, and book 7 is fucking awesome, forgot to say that, i think i finished this one the fastest
On September 05 2014 17:42 B.I.G. wrote: Just finished the Bone Hunters. Six down four to go. Sad to see some of the characters die (although seeing as how this is the malazan universe there is a pretty decent chance of them coming back in some way). Hoping for more Anomander Rake and Kruppe stuff since I kind of enjoy the whole Genabackis story more.
On September 05 2014 17:42 B.I.G. wrote: Just finished the Bone Hunters. Six down four to go. Sad to see some of the characters die (although seeing as how this is the malazan universe there is a pretty decent chance of them coming back in some way). Hoping for more Anomander Rake and Kruppe stuff since I kind of enjoy the whole Genabackis story more.
Just finished Assail. Not the best book (not a great Esslemont fan) but it was an emotional ride knowing it to be the last malazan book. Now it's just kharkanas and Karsa but those shouldn't touch on the Empire anymore. It's been a great ride.
Esslemont: 1) Night of Knives 2) Return of the Crimson Guard 3) Assail 4) Stonewielder (Liked it alot better on my second read.) 5) Orb Sceptre Throne (What a HUGE failed opportunity this was! A travesty that Erikson didn't write it.) 6) Blood and bone (Absolutely hated it, what a boring book.)
Alright so I guess this has kind of become my malazan reading log. I'm well into the second half of Reapers Gale now (ahead of schedule I suppose) and just remembered a few things I need to remind myself to figure out:
-Who or what was the undead dragon described in the end of book two, flying ominously over Iskaral Pust I believe. -Who is the guy that can't put down his swords that helped put the Mybe into her final resting place (together with Coll and someone else in Memories of Ice). -Topper where art thou -Dassem Ultor. Show that mug of yours already, I know you're about to pop out of one of these pages any day now. -Also need to figure out what the point was to the insane murder puppet in Gardens of the Moon.
As I said, this is just a note to self so no answers (and especially spoilers ) needed. Wish me luck with the final quarter of this series...
The answer to your last question should have been in Gardens of the Moon if I recall correctly. Just think of it from the Empressed POV although what transpired wasn't exactly as planned. Second has to do with how the Houses are structured, in this case the House of Death. That hint along with another he mentions could connect the dots for you but you would have to be paying a lot of attention at the time.
On September 18 2014 05:49 Numy wrote: I actually haven't read any of the Esslemont books. Are they worth picking up?
Not really sure... some are good, some are okayish, others are downright awful.
Stonewielder and Return of the Crimson Guard are good, not Erikson level but quite good. I'd say Night of Knives is fine - rather short though.
Orb Scepter Throne had a great setting, but in the end you will just facepalm at all the missed potential. Don't touch Blood and Bone, not even with a stick.
@ B.I.G - Keep reading. Not spoiling. (Also not sure if this has been hinted at, it may have been). - This is known to you already. - Don't know. - Keep reading. Not spoiling. (Also not sure if this has been hinted at. I think it has but I could be wrong). - To maybe show the nature of the warren of chaos and the dangers of it? Seemed like a twisted mage gone power hungry with his own designs. Basically Quick Ben saved him. He was a mage of the empire after all who worked under Dujek and had a rivalry of sorts with Tayschrenn. Then he wandered through chaos and became more and more volatile, Quick Ben decided he was dangerous/of no more use and made sure he died. He had no bearing on the rest of the books.
On September 23 2014 00:50 B.I.G. wrote: Alright so I guess this has kind of become my malazan reading log. I'm well into the second half of Reapers Gale now (ahead of schedule I suppose) and just remembered a few things I need to remind myself to figure out:
-Who or what was the undead dragon described in the end of book two, flying ominously over Iskaral Pust I believe. -Who is the guy that can't put down his swords that helped put the Mybe into her final resting place (together with Coll and someone else in Memories of Ice). -Topper where art thou -Dassem Ultor. Show that mug of yours already, I know you're about to pop out of one of these pages any day now. -Also need to figure out what the point was to the insane murder puppet in Gardens of the Moon.
As I said, this is just a note to self so no answers (and especially spoilers ) needed. Wish me luck with the final quarter of this series...
IIRC this was Baudin who was burned to death in book 2. In MoI He makes a reference to failing to protect a child (Felisin)
On September 18 2014 05:48 Nyovne wrote: Just finished Assail. Not the best book (not a great Esslemont fan) but it was an emotional ride knowing it to be the last malazan book. Now it's just kharkanas and Karsa but those shouldn't touch on the Empire anymore. It's been a great ride.
Esslemont: 1) Night of Knives 2) Return of the Crimson Guard 3) Assail 4) Stonewielder (Liked it alot better on my second read.) 5) Orb Sceptre Throne (What a HUGE failed opportunity this was! A travesty that Erikson didn't write it.) 6) Blood and bone (Absolutely hated it, what a boring book.)
Well then I have good news for you. ICE is going to write a few pre-empire books as his next projects. Dancer's Lament is the next one apparently.
Just finished Reaper's Gale. Another awesome story... Really liked the addition of Beak's story, although I somehow have the feeling that initially Bottle was set up to go down Beak's path until Erikson decided he liked Bottle too much or needed him later in the story of something... I was also a little bit confused by + Show Spoiler +
Tool suddenly becoming the leader of the White Face Barghast and arriving in Lether to avenge the death of Toc's Greyswords, who apparently also arrived there earlier.
But I guess this is all a set up for later books.
Anyway from Toll the Hounds' synopsis I gather the story switched back to Genabackis and, most importantly, Rake and Kruppe. Awesome.
On September 28 2014 17:30 B.I.G. wrote: Just finished Reaper's Gale. Another awesome story... Really liked the addition of Beak's story, although I somehow have the feeling that initially Bottle was set up to go down Beak's path until Erikson decided he liked Bottle too much or needed him later in the story of something... I was also a little bit confused by + Show Spoiler +
Tool suddenly becoming the leader of the White Face Barghast and arriving in Lether to avenge the death of Toc's Greyswords, who apparently also arrived there earlier.
But I guess this is all a set up for later books.
Anyway from Toll the Hounds' synopsis I gather the story switched back to Genabackis and, most importantly, Rake and Kruppe. Awesome.
He sorta married the biggest chieftains daughter, and on top of that had the Imass look, which the Barghast regard as their ancestors. The Barghast travels back overseas to their old homeland, which they fled from the edur (called something akin to sea-harriers - grey ghasts - in Memories of Ice IIRC).
Just started reading this series. Is this thread heavy with spoilers? If so guess I shall avoid it and return in a couple of months! (Not read any posts so far just in case)
So much stuff happens and there are so many story lines that (i think) a spoiler that encompasses even 10% of the outcome would need 50 pages at least.
I was happy to see that the story returned to Darujistan, as I still had a soft spot for the characters that were introduced in Gardens of the Moon. Unfortunately it ended the way I was afraid GotM would end, with some of those characters dying (right from the start it was obvious that Rake had too much swag to last). I do still appreciate it as a story development though. Apparently the last two books are a two parts of the final chapter. I'm really curious to see who is (if there is any) the big bad they are going to fight. -The crippled god is obviously severely hinted but after he got his ass beat by mael and his plans ruined by karsa and withal I'm not convinced anymore hes the main problem here. -Is Draconus coming back to be a major jerk? It seems that his time in Dragnipur made him see the error of his ways.. -The big undead dragon of revelations who gave a quick visit to Kallor with the sole purpose(?) of blowing his mind mentioned the Jaghut marched against death and won, so does that mean Hood is coming back for round two? Then again he is Jaghut too so it stands to reason that at the end of said war he took the position of god of death to make sure this didn't happen anymore or something. Besides that he said himself he's not the god of death anymore.. -There are agents in darujistan trying to revive "a Tyrant". Are they talking about Raest? He got his ass beat last time he showed his face so I don't see how that is cause for too much concern?
Questions I suppose will be answered in the last 2500 pages... Wish me luck..
You'll learn more about the big UD dragon. The Jaghut lost their war - After all, Hood got recruited by the enemy.. There is more to this you'll learn. I believe the Tyrant referred to is Draconus in that part, not sure.
You'll learn more about the big UD dragon. The Jaghut lost their war - After all, Hood got recruited by the enemy.. There is more to this you'll learn. I believe the Tyrant referred to is Draconus in that part, not sure.
The Tyrant in that last part and everything surrounding the attempt of his/her revival is handled in Orb Sceptre Throne bij ICE.
Reader's log 02:00 AM 17 november 2014. Finished Dust of Dreams the day before yesterday. Read the first few pages of The Crippled God. The end is nigh...
He's got monsterous power. Basically, he fought off 5 dragons by himself when he wasn't even at his full power. He didn't have his Finnest aka he wasn't even in his final form
I really don't understand warrens. So they are alternate dimensions (Tiste andii are not of this world and came from the dark warren) which can be use for travelling and as a source if energy by mages. Right? Are some warrens more powerful than others? Is a mage's power related to how many warren he has? Does the warren you have determine what kind of magic you're capable of?
On November 23 2014 17:56 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So I'm halfway through deadhouse gates.
I really don't understand warrens. So they are alternate dimensions (Tiste andii are not of this world and came from the dark warren) which can be use for travelling and as a source if energy by mages. Right? Are some warrens more powerful than others? Is a mage's power related to how many warren he has? Does the warren you have determine what kind of magic you're capable of?
I think it's safe to say that all (or most of) your questions will be answered further on in the series. From your post I think you understand warrens pretty well so far.
On November 23 2014 17:56 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So I'm halfway through deadhouse gates.
I really don't understand warrens. So they are alternate dimensions (Tiste andii are not of this world and came from the dark warren) which can be use for travelling and as a source if energy by mages. Right? Are some warrens more powerful than others? Is a mage's power related to how many warren he has? Does the warren you have determine what kind of magic you're capable of?
I also think you understand warrens pretty well. It's just never completely spelled out what they truly are or how they function.
- The warrens determine what kind of magic you can do. If you can use Denul, you can heal. Telas lets you use fire, etc.
- Commanding more than one warren doesn't mean you are stronger per se. It basically only means that you have access to more warrens ;-) The likelyhood that such a character is in general more powerful than others is pretty high though.
- I would be afraid to put a word to what the warrens really are. In a way they are alternate dimensions. + Show Spoiler +
Since the warrens are basically running through K'ruls (or are his veins... sth. like that) they are part of the Malazan world and not from some kind of other world.
And they are, as you say, a source of energy which can be accessed only by certain individuals
- The question wether some warrens are more powerful than others leads you nowhere. One of the best concepts of the whole series is power. There are like thousands extremely powerful individuals in those books and he probably says about 50 of them that they could destroy the whole world if they wanted to or if they had the chance. It took me a while to understand that he just plays with those concepts and ideas and you should not take him literally. Draconus may be the most powerful individual of them all, but he has been trapped in his own sword for hundred thousand years. So back to the warrens, the boring answer is, as always, that it is completely relative. If you need to heal your army to fight another day, throwing fireballs around is not gonna help you much. But maybe if you had thrown those fireballs in the first place, your army might not need healing now ;-)
On November 23 2014 17:56 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So I'm halfway through deadhouse gates.
I really don't understand warrens. So they are alternate dimensions (Tiste andii are not of this world and came from the dark warren) which can be use for travelling and as a source if energy by mages. Right? Are some warrens more powerful than others? Is a mage's power related to how many warren he has? Does the warren you have determine what kind of magic you're capable of?
I also think you understand warrens pretty well. It's just never completely spelled out what they truly are or how they function.
- The warrens determine what kind of magic you can do. If you can use Denul, you can heal. Telas lets you use fire, etc.
- Commanding more than one warren doesn't mean you are stronger per se. It basically only means that you have access to more warrens ;-) The likelyhood that such a character is in general more powerful than others is pretty high though.
- I would be afraid to put a word to what the warrens really are. In a way they are alternate dimensions. + Show Spoiler +
Since the warrens are basically running through K'ruls (or are his veins... sth. like that) they are part of the Malazan world and not from some kind of other world.
And they are, as you say, a source of energy which can be accessed only by certain individuals
- The question wether some warrens are more powerful than others leads you nowhere. One of the best concepts of the whole series is power. There are like thousands extremely powerful individuals in those books and he probably says about 50 of them that they could destroy the whole world if they wanted to or if they had the chance. It took me a while to understand that he just plays with those concepts and ideas and you should not take him literally. Draconus may be the most powerful individual of them all, but he has been trapped in his own sword for hundred thousand years. So back to the warrens, the boring answer is, as always, that it is completely relative. If you need to heal your army to fight another day, throwing fireballs around is not gonna help you much. But maybe if you had thrown those fireballs in the first place, your army might not need healing now ;-)
Yeah, the bolded explains it well. It's all subjective and if you have any power in general it makes you want more power whether you are the most powerful or not. Different characters experience their power in different ways and with varying degrees of acceptance.
Currently reading Midmight Tides, done with the first book. Must say I have a real hard time with this book, the characters and story so far are not interesting me at all. Hope this gets better, or I will take a long time reading this book.
I'm pretty sure he meant the books within the book.
Edit: I'm also on Midnight Tides, 2 chapters from the end. It was definitely hard getting into for me as well, and sticking with for that matter. Especially since the first 4 all tied-in with something you were familiar with. This one not so much, but you do get a ton of new information about what's going on in the over-arcing story. With how close I am to finishing it, it feels like there's so many things to wrap up! I'm excited for the ending, but as a whole thus far the book feels kinda 'meh' to me. Hopefully that changes with the end!
Just think of it as the opening book of the series. It may be book 5 but it's dealing with a completely different side of the universe you haven't seen until now. At the start it's a bit slow but it really picks up delivering some of the most interesting characters and moments later on. Trull and Tehol are some of my favourite characters in the series.
On March 09 2014 08:33 B.I.G. wrote: Thanks for the quick replies guys. Even though purely based on description it doesn't really sound like a perfect fit for me I'm still gonna give it a go because getting into a series that already has 1000s of pages written is so so sweet and the fact that apparently it's good enough to merit it's own 24 page thread.
Now I just finished The Crippled God and holy shit what a ride it has been. I never thought I would be able to tackle such a monstrous series, especially considering that at times it can be very difficult to read (especially for a non native english speaker). However I pulled through and I'm happy I did. I see it as an achievement. I read some review on these books and it said something like "Reading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series might very well be the biggest literary challenge you will ever undertake". I can say that in my case it's definitely true. Kudos to mr. Erikson for writing a story of over 10.000 pages that still leaves you yearning for more and still leaves questions open (although not in a nagging way):
like what ever happened to Topper, Kruppe, Rallick Nom, Torvald Nom, Laseen, Korbolo Dom, Kallor, etc etc the list goes on. And then there are entire story lines that seem to be unfinished (or left open for new story I guess) like + Show Spoiler +
Leoman story line, the girl (I forgot her name) that Heboric failed to protect and became some kind of priestess to the sick and crippled, Osric and his son that posed as a high mage for the apocalypse, Dassem Ultor's tale, Karsa's tale etc etc.
But I guess that it makes sense that so many of these story lines are left open. All those characters that kind of faded out had played out their role in this story but still have a place in this world, just waiting for their story to be told someday. I'm very happy to know that there are at least 8 more books in the malazan universe for me to read, but I think I'm gonna save those for later. Let the epicness of this story sink in first. Maybe some light reading to detox xD
Thanks guys for making this thread. I don't know why or how it caught my eye but somehow I felt drawn to it. Best choice ever. It completely made me rediscover my passion for reading that I thought I had lost so many years ago. GG TL
Haven't had much time recently and didn't like book 5 ( Midnight Tides ) that much. But now over half way in and oh boy I LOVE IT ! Bugg and Tehol, I am so happy when I get to read about them. It is like Game of Thrones and reading about Tyrion, just such great characters.
I hope someone skewers the Errant. Trull didn't deserve to die.
I've just started The Bonehunters, but after reading Midnight Tides I've come to the conclusion that Erickson has to kill off a likeable character every book just to make you salty lol
Killing characters properly is a mark of great writing. He has so many great characters that even if he kills one, there's so many great ones left. So glad people are loving these books. They are so fucking good.
On December 25 2014 11:37 yamato77 wrote: It does seem like a pattern. Makes me worried for these last two before The Crippled God. If he kills off certain characters I will be majorly upset.
But it IS the "Book of the Fallen" after all, so I should have known what I was getting myself into.
Exactly. Otherwise it would be called The Malazan Book of the Guys Who Turned Out To Be Absolutely Fine. Noone would read it.
Just finished Night of Knives. It's very different from Erikson's work. This is more of an adventure novel in comparison. Still I really enjoyed getting some more backstory on some important characters such as the ever mysterious Dassem Ultor. Good read definetely recommended.
I was completely lost for most of Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates was still confusing but a bit into Memories of Ice things started to make sense and the series became bloody awesome, emphasis on the bloody.
I've especially enjoyed the parts with Lady Envy's group, only 50% into Memories of Ice so far though but if the first two books taught me anything it's that these somehow get even better towards the end.
If Erikson maintains similar level after Memories of Ice I'm in for a real treat.
On February 26 2015 09:28 Vaelone wrote: I was completely lost for most of Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates was still confusing but a bit into Memories of Ice things started to make sense and the series became bloody awesome, emphasis on the bloody.
I've especially enjoyed the parts with Lady Envy's group, only 50% into Memories of Ice so far though but if the first two books taught me anything it's that these somehow get even better towards the end.
If Erikson maintains similar level after Memories of Ice I'm in for a real treat.
You are indeed Won't spoil anything but this series is my favorite by far.
Am currently in Toll the Hounds, finally got round to buying them in English. Was waiting for years if and wen they would translate them in Dutch but the publisher decided not to anymore, so from book 4 on in English it is. Little harder for me since his writing style/ words can be somewhat difficult but I can't wait for decades to finish this series !
On February 26 2015 09:28 Vaelone wrote: I was completely lost for most of Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates was still confusing but a bit into Memories of Ice things started to make sense and the series became bloody awesome, emphasis on the bloody.
I've especially enjoyed the parts with Lady Envy's group, only 50% into Memories of Ice so far though but if the first two books taught me anything it's that these somehow get even better towards the end.
If Erikson maintains similar level after Memories of Ice I'm in for a real treat.
I had the same as you. At book 3 I somewhat started getting it and I was sold. Be prepared though, the plot will keep thickening for like 3 or 4 more books until you start getting some answers. Worth every second though. ATM I'm reading Esselmont's books and it fills in so much of the background stories that are kept vague in Erikson's books that it's a good read regardless of the fact that Erikson is considered the superior writer. The world and story these two created is just gigantic...
Pretty sure I started reading this series because of this thread. I really liked Gardens of the Moon, Steven paints such an epic weight to the imagery of events and magic power. Although, Deadhouse Gates was hard to read through for me because of the lack of upsides. I do love how everyone is so powerful but still vulnerable, seems a defining theme of the series.
I'm rereading it at the moment. Read the first two half a year ago, picked up Memories of Ice again, and it's still awesome. It is by far my favorite fantasy series ever. I actually gave up on A song of ice and fire after 2 books as I found most of the plotlines and characters pretty damn boring. My favorite thing about Erikson's world has always been the massive scale. I also enjoy the scheming power hungry pantheon of asshole gods and mortals. I also think that the books showcase some very effective comedic relief from the grim imagery. Kruppe and Bugg/Tehol provide som lightheartedness that doesn't feel forced.
Reading though this thread i see a lot of people who didn't understand GoTM, where as I think most of the plot and motivations in the book to be at least straightforward enough to easily follow the story. My biggest confusion was what was the motivation of Oponn and Shadowthrone for their actions.
about 2 years ago i needed something new to read, so i got the first 3 books of malazan and the dresden files. since i couldnt decide with which to start i tried the first few chapters of both and well, i obviously went for jim butcher (MUCH easier) after reading all of that (the dresden files are pretty good btw), a friend recommended the kingkiller chronicles (meh), then i read the world of midkemia (meh), then i read codex alera (which is btw pretty fucking awesome)
so long story short, a week ago i decided to get malazan in german (which would probably help to make things easier) and started again. like the last time, i didnt unterstand much in the first half of gardens of the moon because he likes to throw stuff at you and explain it 400 pages later
im currenty halfway through book 2 and its pretty fucking awesome ! and according to a friend, it even gets much better
i wouldnt have started it or even bought it if it wasnt for this thread, so i guess thanks guys !
p.s.: anomander rake is the man ! (or the tiste andii)
Especially in Gardens of the Moon I felt Anomander Rake was too awesome. Here was this huge dude with a bigass sword that contains it's own hell, enough magic power to single handedly wipe out armies, a flying fortress, an army of gigantic magic ravens, a dragon, and an army of super powerful assassin mages. Oh yeah he can also transform into a dragon and is pretty much unbeatable in one on one sword combat.
Its like they put every awesome idea they had into one character.
Some opinions on Tiste Andii, Malazans and the ending. Heavy spoilers inside. + Show Spoiler +
Well Rake is easily one of my favorite book character. I really loved the series but the quality quickly deteriorates around book 6-7. Still has some nice moments but overall quality is meh. I got soo tired of Malazans beating everyone around i started to cheer for everyone who opposed Malazans. It was so ridiculous when they beat ascandant after ascendant and god after god. Also Tiste Andi in early books are much better than in late books, afterall they turn out to be just darkskinned silverhaired humans. The only thing that could save this series was tottal anihilation of Tavore/Paran (and their forces) without achiving their goals, that would be a perfect ending.
done with book 2 and i already love the series but it seems im one of the few who liked the first book better ! from what i can tell so far: you start the new book and you are on another continent, in another time, you miss the characters from the last book (whiskeyjack, quick ben, kruppe, anomander rake) but the new characters grow to you REALLY fast, so after some pages you dont really care now im starting book 3 and im back with dujek and whiskeyjack and i already miss sha'ik and the characters from book 2 (and i wanna know how that story continues !)
(all those soldiers getting cruzified, duiker and coltaine dying, man that was though to read....) icarium seems like some hell of a guy, i loved every single page about his relationship with mappo ! and i wanted to read more about gryllen, that guy scares the shit out of 5 hounds of shadow, his death was rather ... underwhelming
So did they kill The Crippled God, or just release him from his mortal body? I feel it's much more the latter, as they could have easily killed him while he was chained and then just ran away without losing everybody defending him. And it was either Heboric, Krul or Mael that said the human body wouldn't be suitable for the travel. If that was the case, why didn't they just explain it to Koryk, rather than saying "It's better this way"?
Ok next, what was Draconus's purpose after he got released? He spent all that time walking with Ublala like they were headed to some destiny. Then he just has to disappear without saying why. All Ublala does is smash Calm over the face with his mace while she was distracted. Draconus could not have been leading him all the way there on the hope that he gets lucky and Sister Calm is just not paying attention to a giant ass Toblakai walking across a desert with no cover.
Did Torrent die? Seemed like he was sliding to the edge before it cut out. Kind of imagined someone would step in and save him.
Did anyone ever get round to explaining how Redmask was a Letheri? The original Redmask wasn't. How did a Letheri get so good at awl style fighting? And how did someone who seemed so smart make so many obvious errors with his army?
Where did Oseric go during all of this? He seemed a kind of strange character, and made out to be pretty powerful. Just seems really strange he didn't do much.
What happened to the Empress? People made out like she had been killed and Malick Rel had taken over. Did we get any more info on that?
Think that is all for now
EDIT: Thought of one more! Quick Ben. People kept saying how he was going to have to "reveal himself". Then after his fight with the Nah Ruk, he got somehow teleported to Mother Dark? With some powerful Sceptre thing? What was he supposed to reveal? What was he hiding?.
So, last question. I see there are other books in the same universe by another guy. Any worth reading? Feels weird not having any more Malazan stuff to read.
Haven't read them myself yet since I'm only on 5th book of the main serie but from wikipedia.
"Esslemont and Erikson collaborated on the storyline for the entire sixteen-book project and Esslemont's novels are considered as canonical and integral to the series as Erikson's own."
So if you love Malazan they are probably worth it and I for one am at least planning to read all 16 books, it's just pretty time consuming so it's a slow process for me. Absolutely loving these though.
The other guy is Ian C. Esselmont, co-creator of the Malazon world. Basically the setting is the same and everything is completely canon. You can tell that they split up who was telling what side of events. For example in ICE's books Dassem Ultor's and Osserc's characters play a prominent role. In Erikson's books characters talk and speculate about the events that led up to Shadowthrone and Cotillion's ascension or Surly's assassination and replacement with Mallick Rel. ICE's first two books tell you exactly that story. It fills in the gaps. ICE is considered to be an inferior writer to Erikson but I find his books very readable. It's just that it somehow doesn't have the same charm.
I already answered a few of your questions I think but regarding the other ones: as far as I remember they wanted Quick Ben to reveal himself as an extremely powerful High Mage rather than just some company mage. In the end there were basically three successful groups that were trying to influence events (Anomander and Hood, Shadowthrone & co, and Quick Ben and the gang) so be was actually one of the story's main puppet masters.
Torrent was the one that killed Olar Ethil right? I think he just slipped off and died.
Redmask remains a mistery. One of the many chesspieces in events.
The fate of the crippled god leaves room for interpretation. One wonders how it fits into Shadowthrone and Cotillion's schemes. They aren't evil so it's not necissarily beyond them to simply help but it has been clearly stated they were looking to become the rulers of a third throne...
And lastly Draconus. Described as the biggest powerhouse of the series. He mainly got released to kill the Elder gods. Yet his motivations are obviously far more complex. His relation with figures like Anomander, Hood, Mother Dark, and Caladan Brood go back hundreds of thousands of years so there is obviously more there. So much even that Erikson is writing the Kharnakas Trilogy now (I'm somewhere in tbe first book). Basically it's the story of aformentioned characters as they share origins.
Much more stuff out there to read to fill in some gaps. It's amazing that even after having put the series down for months I am still pondering it's complexity sometimes...
On November 28 2015 11:11 Westy wrote: Oh I forgot to ask. Do any of the books by ICE feature Karsa? One of the best characters in the entire series got a pretty dull ending I think.
AFAIK no, but after Erikson is finished with the Kharnakas trilogy there is a trilogy just for Karsa planned. Epic shit.
Having finished the books, I'm a little disappointed that Coltaine never resurfaced. Like...it was cool that Whiskeyjack and the other Bridgeburners got another day in the sun, but Coltaine had become almost the Malazan equivalent of a God with worshipers and everything. I kinda assumed he'd resurface during the "final battle" or whatever to lend his military genius. Was a little sad he didn't.
Having finished the books, I'm a little disappointed that Coltaine never resurfaced. Like...it was cool that Whiskeyjack and the other Bridgeburners got another day in the sun, but Coltaine had become almost the Malazan equivalent of a God with worshipers and everything. I kinda assumed he'd resurface during the "final battle" or whatever to lend his military genius. Was a little sad he didn't.
For all the peepz who still love the Malazan world: Dancer's Lament (by ICE) and Fall of Light (by SE) have been released earlier this year. The latter is part 2 of The Kharnakas Trilogy, and the first is the first book in a new series by ICE detailing The Path To Ascendancy (series title) of the Malazan Empire OG's (so far I have encountered Dancer, Kellanved, and Dassem Ultor). Interestingly this is maybe the first time that ICE's book is rated higher by man than SE's book. So far I only read a bit of ICE's book but I have to agree that it seems he has found his style and has written a slightly more light-hearted, yet epic book.
I apparenty have a way of misreading names in the Malazan universe. I always thought it was Kharnakas but apparently its Kharkanas. I also used to think it was Kellenvad, instead its Kellanved. Mind=blown.
Just finished book 6, The Bonehunters. At first I liked it very much but as the time went on I didn't feel like this book has a big story line like the previous one's. Boy I was wrong. Like at the 80% of the book the shit gets real and you start to understand that this book is mean to pivot the story line in preparation for next books. Damn that ending was good. One of the best so far! Now for some spoilers + Show Spoiler +
A lot of awesome stuff happened. Eres'al getting involved. Hints of Icariums power. Full display of shadowdance with Apsalar (even though it happened behind the screen). And Kalamn. Damn those fights vs Claw. I think we finally saw why he is often displayed as one of dangerous assassins. And Fiddlers song. Oh Kalam Brigeburners break my heart
Book 8 is the worst in that regard. 90% is decent at best but the last 10% is madness. Probably one of my favourite parts of all the books together with book 3.
I'm 70% into Dust of Dreams atm and other than couple highlights it hasn't been great so far. I imagine it's going to pick up pace later like most Malazan books, if not maybe it's just set up for Crippled God which hopefully delivers all the way through.
Memories of Ice and House of Chains still my personal favourites, HoC mostly due to Karsa.
At least most of the books have more or less well rounded stories. Think that's why I liked Memories of Ice and Midnight Tides the best I think. I didn't like House of Chains that much. Imo his character develops nice later on.
But dear god I like Shadowthrone and Cotillion in The Bonehunters. Especially Cotillion!
Been slowly getting through these books since I read this thread way back when. I have The Crippled God left and then I'm done.
Quick and simple question - how worth it are the non-main series books? I fear that the Tiste books are going to lose a lot of the character I like as the Tiste have their own personalities and outlooks and most of the characters I really enjoy reading are human.
On August 16 2016 22:39 SK.Testie wrote: I'll tell you how Forge of Darkness is once I finish it.
I'm reading it at a slow pace though rather than devouring it like all other Malazan books because the next one isn't out yet. =[
Fall of Light is out and I finished it a couple of weeks back. The last one dealing with Shadow is set to be released end of next year. So you can read Forge and have another 800+ pages to read still ahead of you .
Dancer's is in the mail so gonna read that this week. Ordered it along with another 13 books so I'm set for the next 2 months.
On August 16 2016 22:39 SK.Testie wrote: I'll tell you how Forge of Darkness is once I finish it.
I'm reading it at a slow pace though rather than devouring it like all other Malazan books because the next one isn't out yet. =[
Fall of Light is out and I finished it a couple of weeks back. The last one dealing with Shadow is set to be released end of next year. So you can read Forge and have another 800+ pages to read still ahead of you .
Dancer's is in the mail so gonna read that this week. Ordered it along with another 13 books so I'm set for the next 2 months.
On August 16 2016 22:39 SK.Testie wrote: I'll tell you how Forge of Darkness is once I finish it.
I'm reading it at a slow pace though rather than devouring it like all other Malazan books because the next one isn't out yet. =[
Fall of Light is out and I finished it a couple of weeks back. The last one dealing with Shadow is set to be released end of next year. So you can read Forge and have another 800+ pages to read still ahead of you .
Dancer's is in the mail so gonna read that this week. Ordered it along with another 13 books so I'm set for the next 2 months.
From Esslemont return of the crimson guard anf especially dancer's lament were good. Forge of darkness is good as well.
As far as ICE goes: Dancer's Lament, Night of Knives, and Orb Sceptre Throne are good reads, Return of the Crimson and Stonewielder less so.
Forge of Darkness gives you a shitton of background on many of the ancient characters you encounter in the books. It also gives you insight in how the world came to be. To me it didn't diminish the characters at all.
Finished Dancer's lament two days ago and I must say I'm positively surprised. I hated Orb Scepter Throne (even though I loved the concepts in the book, just detested the execution), Blood and Bone missed all the marks for me and Assail was the biggest disappointment I've had reading a book in over a decade. This was really disappointing for me because I really liked Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard with Stonewielder hanging somewhere in the middle. Going back in after those books was a tough call for me but ah well, more Malazan right? In the end more than worth it. Really enjoyed it and I hope ICE has found his style and stride with this book and that we can expect more of this quality work in the future. It turned me around from hating his last books to looking forward to the next 2 installments in the path to ascendancy trillogy.
On another note, Fall of Light is an absolutely brilliant piece of work by Erikson. How he touches upon so many modern day social issues and historical events in a critical and interesting manner with flawlessly weaving them into his fantasy epic is inspiring. So many passages really made me think and inspired new trains of thought. It's so much more then a fantasy epic, for me it was also quite a few new perspectives on modern day issues.
On August 22 2016 01:09 Nyovne wrote: Finished Dancer's lament two days ago and I must say I'm positively surprised. I hated Orb Scepter Throne (even though I loved the concepts in the book, just detested the execution), Blood and Bone missed all the marks for me and Assail was the biggest disappointment I've had reading a book in over a decade. This was really disappointing for me because I really liked Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard with Stonewielder hanging somewhere in the middle. Going back in after those books was a tough call for me but ah well, more Malazan right? In the end more than worth it. Really enjoyed it and I hope ICE has found his style and stride with this book and that we can expect more of this quality work in the future. It turned me around from hating his last books to looking forward to the next 2 installments in the path to ascendancy trillogy.
On another note, Fall of Light is an absolutely brilliant piece of work by Erikson. How he touches upon so many modern day social issues and historical events in a critical and interesting manner with flawlessly weaving them into his fantasy epic is inspiring. So many passages really made me think and inspired new trains of thought. It's so much more then a fantasy epic, for me it was also quite a few new perspectives on modern day issues.
You think it would be worth to just skip over the ICE Novels until I've nothing else to read and go straight onto Kharkanas and Path to Ascendancy books then?
A lot of the characters of Dancer's lament and return of the crimson guard overlap and in many ways it's the continuation of the story. So switching them around might make for a better read.
I'm trying to find out if I already read this or not. Everything sounds so familiar. Did the characters (Like Paran, Lorn, Laseen) / gods show up in Book of the New Sun or just these series?? Cause I remember reading all of those and these characters seem so familiar
March 2014 is when my Malazan adventure started and now, 3 years and 8 months later I'm still only two thirds of the way there (if including the new releases). What an epic journey it has been. No.1 fantasy series without a doubt. As a celebration I started the Gardens of Moon audiobook. Like people said you're in so over your head the first time that the second read through is significantly easier and more enjoyable. That being said, anyone reading the new releases in kharnakas trilogy and path to ascendancy?
Making a show would be incredibly hard. The more fantasy elements a story has the more special effects it needs and the harder it is to keep it gritty and realistic. For that reason GoT makes a fairly good series and LotR was lauded as impossible to make into a movie until Jackson did it (with a lot of minimization in the character and magic department).
Erickson's world is permeated with magic and there are loads of non-human characters, including several gods and demons who often happen to influence the story and have long dialogues.
Also Malazan is a depressing series which requires loads of patience, I doubt it'd survive the first month in TV. And good luck talking the editorial staff into broadcasting the episodes showing the army of the Pannion seer.
On November 29 2017 20:12 B.I.G. wrote: March 2014 is when my Malazan adventure started and now, 3 years and 8 months later I'm still only two thirds of the way there (if including the new releases). What an epic journey it has been. No.1 fantasy series without a doubt. As a celebration I started the Gardens of Moon audiobook. Like people said you're in so over your head the first time that the second read through is significantly easier and more enjoyable. That being said, anyone reading the new releases in kharnakas trilogy and path to ascendancy?
I'm reading both. Dancer's lament is the best book ICE has written in the malazan universe and provides a lot of backstory on Dancer and Kellanved. It's definitely recommended.
The Kharkanas trilogy is great for the story about the tiste and a lot of the older characters in the malazan series. It's a bitch to read through though. Especially fall of light is a huge neverending tome.
Making malazan into a series is near impossible. Just imagine introducing all the 100s of characters while there's not really a single protagonist.
Yeah I agree dancer's lament was great. Much more approachable. Haven't read fall of light yet but I remember forge of darkness being a bit of a chore. Still worth it for the background though.
On November 29 2017 20:12 B.I.G. wrote: March 2014 is when my Malazan adventure started and now, 3 years and 8 months later I'm still only two thirds of the way there (if including the new releases). What an epic journey it has been. No.1 fantasy series without a doubt. As a celebration I started the Gardens of Moon audiobook. Like people said you're in so over your head the first time that the second read through is significantly easier and more enjoyable. That being said, anyone reading the new releases in kharnakas trilogy and path to ascendancy?
I'm reading both. Dancer's lament is the best book ICE has written in the malazan universe and provides a lot of backstory on Dancer and Kellanved. It's definitely recommended.
The Kharkanas trilogy is great for the story about the tiste and a lot of the older characters in the malazan series. It's a bitch to read through though. Especially fall of light is a huge neverending tome.
Making malazan into a series is near impossible. Just imagine introducing all the 100s of characters while there's not really a single protagonist.
Started reading ICE books, (took a brake after finishing the main series), im currently reading ROTCG which is shaping up to be one of the strongest if not the nr.1 book of the entire universe. But now I picked up Dancer's lament, and that s gonna be my next book instead of Stonewielder. The Malazan Old Guard is just so intriguing, and the feedbak about D'L is pretty good so far, so im looking forward to it.
I really dont think they should ever try to make a TV series or films out of the Malazan books. They would 100% ruin it, no matter who picks it up, even HBO would botch it, im sure. They would try to structure it somehow to be more easy to follow, and would focus on details which are not really important. it would most likely be centered heavily around the Paran family and their love-interests, Tavore would be brought more to the front, there would be lesbian sex-scenes every 2nd episode etc. Tattersail would probably be kept around way longer.
The series is deliberately written in a way that is contrary to the traditional narrative styles, one could even say it s post-modern. Even Paran doesnt really function as a traditional protagonist, it s more like a traditional protagonist type thrown into a setting that doesnt allow for that kind of a character arc.
The only form of adaptation I would be happy about is an animated series, which shows all the events without much restructuring.
I just finished reading The Gardens of the Moon and think it was pretty good. Albeit it is a little bit hard to follow I love books (hence authors)that makes me overthink and construct the world as I want, for example, the warrens. Most complains I have heard is that Erickson does not explain much and just throws you right in the middle of the events and I just loved that.
I just bought the following 5 books in the series as I pretty much enjoyed the first one and everybody says the next ones are better in overall terms.
You're gonna love DeadHouse Gates. I thought it was a huge improvement to GotM (it also has one of the best story arcs i've ever read in fantasy aka Chain of Dogs )
Don't think there will ever be a medium that can make Malazan look decent tbh. There's too much censorship and content needed to be cut to pass todays shows(children being brutalized alot, the concept of tenescowri etc) and without them i don't think Malazan will ever be the same. Not to mention the god/ascendant showcases conversations. But yeah animated is probably the closest it could make it work
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.deviantart.com/download/80883024/Itkovian_by_Merlkir_by_Malazan_Art_Guild.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/11/Deadhouse_Gates.jpg/200px-Deadhouse_Gates.jpg)
. If you have not read it before you should read it now.
.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a1qRS.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gO4tX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/abuPr.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CGGpOk0.jpg)
