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Just to put in some input.
1) VOD's - I'd like to see better access and organization through your website. Also, I seem to have the same issues many others are complaining about with regards to them being choppy/pausing midstream even when I've got a huge buffer. Splitting them up into matches would be great as well so if I watch game 1 and then have to do other things I can jump right into game 2 no problem later instead of trying to remember roughly what time I was at.
2) Gretorp - I'm fine with his casting. He isn't my favorite Caster, but I think he's doing allright. Only issue with him is the uninterested look he seems to have whenever iNControL is talking when we're in the studio. He just seems to be in outer space sometimes.
3) iNControL - Doing well dude, seem engaged. Only possible mention is like in good writing, good speaking shouldn't involve the same phrasing constantly. You say standard play, a lot. Really though, that's the biggest thing I can come up with that bugs me so obviously you're doing well.
4) Positive Feedback - Some things I love. I love the statistics you guys have available. The race vs race matchups. The RvR Map statistics. Some of the stuff on your site is really quite excellent to have available. I like the player overviews and interviews. Finding out Stalife was from Vancouver took me from completely uninterested in him as a player, to finding a hometown hero to cheer for. Keep promoting the players and exposing them.
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How about let incontrol cast every single game outside of when he's playing, he is the only reason I get some enjoyment out of NASL.
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I agree with all the positive things Mercury Viper included above. Which makes the really grievous errors of the league so much worse, it's like NASL has so much potential but they are focusing on the wrong things first... ya know. Like hammer out the really big things and then add those small little details like players bios and stats afterward.
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Calgary25954 Posts
I think the NASL is exactly where it should be: Pretty good and improving steadily.
I want to make a pretty long post to people about spreading your resources thin. I think the NASL already spread themselves way too thin with this endeavour, but having already said that, it's not really my place to comment on their business plan. Their strategy seems to be to come stomping in and be the biggest dog, and it's that strategy that got hundreds, if not thousands of people, to pay $20 without having seen a single minute of their production.
When split more than 3 ways, time and money disappear extremely quickly. The TSL has the backbone of the TL staff and the TL community. Volunteers know they are volunteers. The NASL has monetized their staff positions, and have largely cut themselves off from volunteer help. Well, I guess they're partnered with WellPlayed but I don't even know what that means. Regardless, it's a lot of work for few hands.
So the NASL relied on Justin.tv automatically recording their stream - A great temporary solution, but not ideal in the long run. "Trim the VODs and upload them to a spoiler free page." Yes, that seems like an easy thing to do, but realistically it's another 4 hours of work per day for one of your 8 staff members. "Install better lighting." Sounds great also, but your staff is most likely already working 8-16 hour days 5-7 days a week. It's a big commitment to ask them to come test stuff.
Money also goes quickly. I've read ridiculous thing like the following: "Hire a PR consultant." I know the NASL looks like a huge company in the SC world, but their balance sheet is tiny. You don't go hiring consultants at this level. "Hire an art director." See above.
The NASL is doing well. They're running a broadcast with the stretched resources they have. If they can grind out an ever-improving season 1, then maybe big things will improve with some downtime and a little more money. This is how any company starts: They grind it out until they catch a small break, make small improvements, and continue to grow. The NASL is no different.
How you can help:
1. Don't be a moron.
2. Help. See page 59 of this thread. Rather than berate them about what they're doing wrong and how you can fix their images in 15 minutes if they ask you, why don't you be proactive and just resize the images and post them with permission for them to use? It's not your responsibility to do it, but it would be nice and would help them out.
3. Offer small suggestions. They're not going to build a new stage or take the broadcast outside - it's too much of a change. They're not going to replace Gretorp after week 1. They can, however, rebalance sound levels and install a sound compressor (or whatever it was called  ). That was a great, small, actionable suggestion.
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To all of you complaining about the pictures --
1) The image of Boxer we have is literally the one his manager sent us to be displayed (they're the ones who resized it like that)
2) We asked everyone to submit pictures in specific dimensions that would fit our site. Some didn't follow those instructions, so I was forced to resize what we were given.
At this stage, we've got a lot of things to worry about on a daily basis and our priority isn't shopping around the internet for good/usable pictures we can easily size up to fit the website.
We always listen to our critics and are working every day to improve. As long as you bear with us, we'll keep it going and hopefully you'll all be satisfied with what we produce!
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On April 20 2011 06:44 Chill wrote:They can, however, rebalance sound levels and install a sound compressor (or whatever it was called ). That was a great, small, actionable suggestion.
Dynamic Range Compressor (DRC)
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I hear a lot of excuses from the TL pros for a company that asked people to pay $25 dollars for a product. Which i am admitting is totally a fair price for what they provide, if it was done like we are suggesting.
But i keep hearing, lay off of us it was done on-the-fly, we're learning, we only have 8 people, oh woe is us, bare with it...
If that's the case then it shouldn't have been a charge first approach, or done a two weeks, free then we'll charge. you do realize we bought a product, whether or not it's 25 dollars, 10 dollars or 100 dollars, we are customers. We have every right to be "morons".
We do cut some slack, we do, but there are MAJOR problems. Not occasional slip ups. The SC community for the most part is an awesome group of people, but they know when they are being served a turd but are told not to worry it will transform into a gold necklace, just wait...
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So I am just going to put this out there.
If the time between recording and airing is not enough to allow for a proper review in addition to editing and encoding without robbing people of their sleep, then just stream live.
Right now we have had all the problems you'd have when doing a live show (people not showing up for instance) and problems you can only have if you're doing a pre recorded show such as out-of-order games.
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Calgary25954 Posts
On April 20 2011 06:58 NoahNickels wrote:
I hear a lot of excuses from the TL pros for a company that asked people to pay $25 dollars for a product. Which i am admitting is totally a fair price for what they provide, if it was done like we are suggesting.
But i keep hearing, lay off of us it was done on-the-fly, we're learning, we only have 8 people, oh woe is us, bare with it...
If that's the case then it shouldn't have been a charge first approach, or done a two weeks, free then we'll charge. you do realize we bought a product, whether or not it's is 25 dollars, 10 dollars or 100 dollars, we are customers. We have every right to be "morons".
We do cut some slack, we do, but there are MAJOR problems. Not occasional slip ups. The SC community for the most part is an awesome group of people, but they know when they are being served a turd but are told not to worry it will transform into a gold necklace, just wait...
No one forced you to buy their product. In fact, I would argue that buying something without ever seeing it should be thought of as a charitable donation and not a purchase. I didn't buy the pass because I don't donate to companies. Now, seeing the product, I don't think it's worth $25. That doesn't mean I won't watch it and support them without money.
It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations.
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On April 20 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:
It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations.
You have a point there. Although those expectation were founded in the reality of the SC2 Esports scene with GSL and TSL3 among others.
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On April 20 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 06:58 NoahNickels wrote:
I hear a lot of excuses from the TL pros for a company that asked people to pay $25 dollars for a product. Which i am admitting is totally a fair price for what they provide, if it was done like we are suggesting.
But i keep hearing, lay off of us it was done on-the-fly, we're learning, we only have 8 people, oh woe is us, bare with it...
If that's the case then it shouldn't have been a charge first approach, or done a two weeks, free then we'll charge. you do realize we bought a product, whether or not it's is 25 dollars, 10 dollars or 100 dollars, we are customers. We have every right to be "morons".
We do cut some slack, we do, but there are MAJOR problems. Not occasional slip ups. The SC community for the most part is an awesome group of people, but they know when they are being served a turd but are told not to worry it will transform into a gold necklace, just wait... No one forced you to buy their product. In fact, I would argue that buying something without ever seeing it should be thought of as a charitable donation and not a purchase. I didn't buy the pass because I don't donate to companies. Now, seeing the product, I don't think it's worth $25. That doesn't mean I won't watch it and support them without money. It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations.
Great point chill, I feel the same way. I decided just to watch for a bit to decide how good the product was BEFORE deciding to pay for it. I still think a couple things need to be changed before I am willing to pay, but I think for everyone who did pay the message of "buyer beware" applies here.
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you are aware that "buyer beware" simplifies to "go eff yourself, we have your money so we don't give a flying elephant anus what you think." I doubt that's the attitude NASL has.
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On April 20 2011 06:49 Xeris wrote:
To all of you complaining about the pictures --
1) The image of Boxer we have is literally the one his manager sent us to be displayed (they're the ones who resized it like that)
2) We asked everyone to submit pictures in specific dimensions that would fit our site. Some didn't follow those instructions, so I was forced to resize what we were given.
At this stage, we've got a lot of things to worry about on a daily basis and our priority isn't shopping around the internet for good/usable pictures we can easily size up to fit the website.
We always listen to our critics and are working every day to improve. As long as you bear with us, we'll keep it going and hopefully you'll all be satisfied with what we produce!
Now that you are aware of it why don't you fix it? You are basically saying its not your fault because the players sent you crappy pictures but YOU decided to use it and it's making your website look amateurish. That doesn't bother you??
I really don't like it when NASL (or any business for that matter) reply with lame excuses like that. Just man up and fix the damn problem like Sundance from MLG. Just admit you overlooked it and make sure it won't happen again.
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Pick another game to have a league in. One that makes sense. Brood War for instance. Starcraft 2 is broken beyond repair. It will never be fun to watch. As long as games are this onesided, with no back and forth, no micro and scouting really doesn't matter. Seriously starcraft 2 sucks ass
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 20 2011 06:49 Xeris wrote:
To all of you complaining about the pictures --
1) The image of Boxer we have is literally the one his manager sent us to be displayed (they're the ones who resized it like that)
2) We asked everyone to submit pictures in specific dimensions that would fit our site. Some didn't follow those instructions, so I was forced to resize what we were given.
At this stage, we've got a lot of things to worry about on a daily basis and our priority isn't shopping around the internet for good/usable pictures we can easily size up to fit the website.
We always listen to our critics and are working every day to improve. As long as you bear with us, we'll keep it going and hopefully you'll all be satisfied with what we produce!
Sorry, but that's a terrible excuse. Cropping Boxer's pic to fit the specific dimensions you requested would take literally less than a minute in Photoshop. Heck, you could squeeze out a better picture in Microsoft Paint. Sure it's not your priority, but when it takes less than 10 minutes to make all the changes to the pictures and make your site a WHOLE lot more professional, I dunno what to say.
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On April 20 2011 07:09 ptell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 06:49 Xeris wrote:
To all of you complaining about the pictures --
1) The image of Boxer we have is literally the one his manager sent us to be displayed (they're the ones who resized it like that)
2) We asked everyone to submit pictures in specific dimensions that would fit our site. Some didn't follow those instructions, so I was forced to resize what we were given.
At this stage, we've got a lot of things to worry about on a daily basis and our priority isn't shopping around the internet for good/usable pictures we can easily size up to fit the website.
We always listen to our critics and are working every day to improve. As long as you bear with us, we'll keep it going and hopefully you'll all be satisfied with what we produce! Now that you are aware of it why don't you fix it? You are basically saying its not your fault because the players sent you crappy pictures but YOU decided to use it and it's making your website look amateurish. That doesn't bother you??
What can they do apart from asking the players/teams to send them a single damn picture?
People always seem to only hate on the league if anything bad happens... People should start to realize that it's also about the players to bring some professionalism to the scene, whether it's showing up to games, staying in contact with the league/tournament in case of any problems on either side or sending them a freaking picture....
Should they send out a photographer to travel the world and take a picture of all the 50 players?
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On April 20 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2011 06:58 NoahNickels wrote:
I hear a lot of excuses from the TL pros for a company that asked people to pay $25 dollars for a product. Which i am admitting is totally a fair price for what they provide, if it was done like we are suggesting.
But i keep hearing, lay off of us it was done on-the-fly, we're learning, we only have 8 people, oh woe is us, bare with it...
If that's the case then it shouldn't have been a charge first approach, or done a two weeks, free then we'll charge. you do realize we bought a product, whether or not it's is 25 dollars, 10 dollars or 100 dollars, we are customers. We have every right to be "morons".
We do cut some slack, we do, but there are MAJOR problems. Not occasional slip ups. The SC community for the most part is an awesome group of people, but they know when they are being served a turd but are told not to worry it will transform into a gold necklace, just wait... No one forced you to buy their product. In fact, I would argue that buying something without ever seeing it should be thought of as a charitable donation and not a purchase. I didn't buy the pass because I don't donate to companies. Now, seeing the product, I don't think it's worth $25. That doesn't mean I won't watch it and support them without money. It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations.
Well, sort of, but the fact that they are asking for money for their product justifies complaining. Like you said earlier, they came in trying to play top dog (which perhaps is one of the reasons why they're getting so much flak, because to a well-entrenched community it seems almost like an affront) but they couldn't walk the walk after talking the talk.
I understand that complaining for something that was purchased without any knowledge is pretty dodgy, but people who did so were only buying into the hype created by NASL themselves; and if they can't deliver on that (and it seems clear they can't) their growing pains are under huge scrutiny in a way no other tournament is on the dual fronts of 1) Large hype 2) Monetary cost (contrast the multitude of excellently produced free tournaments)
And also, like NoahNickels said your point about buyer beware, which is fair and invalid, does not necessarily translate to the degree of failure (in terms of service provided vs service promised) from NASL. So there is a certain amount of caution that the buyer needs to exercise, but this does not in any way offer the company free reign/an excuse.
Hmm, sorry thoughts slightly jumbled in that 
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On April 20 2011 07:21 FliedLice wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
What can they do apart from asking the players/teams to send them a single damn picture?
People always seem to only hate on the league if anything bad happens... People should start to realize that it's also about the players to bring some professionalism to the scene, whether it's showing up to games, staying in contact with the league/tournament in case of any problems on either side or sending them a freaking picture....
Should they send out a photographer to travel the world and take a picture of all the 50 players?
TimeSpiral found a picture pretty easily
On April 20 2011 03:17 TimeSpiral wrote:
some of us are designers and now how SIMPLE this stuff actually is, we all work too many hours on too short a schedule, but you never allow something like this to go live.
A google image search, takes 30 secs, which produces literally hundreds of better options.
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On April 20 2011 07:00 Chill wrote:
It's not their responsibility to meet your imagined expectations.
I think this is a great comment. However, I think that most people are complaining because they felt that they were 'cheated' of what was initially advertised - unmatched production value, etc.. It is ultimately their decision to buy the pass, but when a league started off with misleading / inaccurate advertisement, it is not good.
My biggest pet-peeve about the whole NASL thing is that they seem to have a double standard. I sometimes read that NASL are run by a small group of people, and it is unfair to compare NASL with the GSL where they have a whole broadcast company to back it up. It is a reasonable comment, but then at other times, I would see things like that the NASL only charges $25 for 3 months worth of contents, whereas the GSL charges $10 per month, which makes NASL a much better deal, or that there are free stream in SQ, and there are paid stream in HQ, just like in the GSL. Why make the comparison only when it looks good for NASL? In my opinion, a comparison with the GSL is inevitable. The best they can do is to continuously improve the quality of NASL, and then people's opinions will change. Having a double standard, however, will not help that cause at all.
I hope NASL will do well (and I think they are getting better), but please do not make a comparison with GSL, because I do think that they are on the same level yet.
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The teamliquid/sc2 is a great community regardless of all the vocal whiners out there. And we are all aware the NASL staff has lot of things they need to juggle behind the scenes right now with the limited ressources available to them.
Which makes me wonder why the NASL staff doesn't simply reach out to the community and ask for some volunteers to help with the long list of "minor issues" that are currently at the bottom of the priorites list.
I have no doubt in my mind a small army of people would gladly volunteer immediatly for the NASL to improve the product for everyone.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/2IlX0.png)
