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If you spoil the results of the tournament, you will be banned. |
Ok, I feel like you deserve a thorough response, though I doubt we will ever see eye to eye.
On April 12 2011 05:53 tehemperorer wrote:
A few things:
1. You do not make meaningful comments, at least you admit it.
Play-by-play commentators are not hired to make meaningful comments.
2. So the wonderful thing about being a caster is that you don't need to know anything about the game?
Ridiculous hypebole with no basis in fact, discarded.
3. Knowledge of fine wines is what distinguishes a connoisseur and a drunk.
Pubs and bars are filled with drunks not connisseurs. The industry exists and survives because of average consumers. To believe otherwise is delusional elitism.
4. There are actually many viewers who want to hear the stuff which you claim "does not matter," you know, strategy and all that "irrelevant" stuff. I would point to the legions of Day[9] fans as an example.
And I would point to the legions of Husky, HD and TotalBiscuit fans as a counter-point. Unless you think Husky's 150,000 regular viewers, HD's 100,000 regular viewers and my 50,000 regular viewers are somehow irrelevant. Have you also considered that part of the reason behind Day9's success is that he is a luminous, entertaining, charismatic personality who is very difficult to dislike and who has worked tirelessly within the community? There are plenty of other analysts that don't get a fraction of either his views or mine. He is not popular because he is an analyst, he is popular because he is Day9.
5. There is no such thing of surface level analysis: Either you are discussing strategy or you are narrating exactly the same thing others are seeing. Most people don't need you to tell them there are now 3 marines on the screen, or that the Protoss player is expanding when they are watching the same game you are.
Nonsense for the first point. There is absolutely surface level analysis, which involves explaining amongst other things, possible options, such as 'well at this stage in the game, based on what he has, he could be going for X, or possibly for Y' as well as looking at unit composition, the state of the economy, possible opportunities for harrassment and drop, basic explanation of builds. If you think there is only one type of analysis you are dead wrong.
The second point has no basis in fact. The purpose of play-by-play commentary is to ensure that the spectator does NOT have to keep track of everything himself. Sports are watched on a couch with a beer and a packet of crisps. If SC2 is watched hunched in front of a monitor in the dark with the viewer scrutinising everything that's going on on the screen, then it has failed as a spectator sport. That is not sports entertainment, "e" or otherwise, that is a lecture. I have to wonder if you have ever watched broadcast sports at any point in your life.
6. You are biased in believing that it "is good" and is "how it should be," because you benefit the most without putting in much actual work. You want to profit from the cash cow without ever having to milk it.
A fairly ridiculous point considering I'd be much better off if I didn't cast SC2 since my other videos pull in two to three times as much income for the same amount of effort. Once again your speculation has no basis in fact, which is a little hypocritical coming from a guy that's just been preaching that in order to discuss a topic you must have indepth knowledge of it.
I don't expect you to spend months getting into masters league, but maybe if you spent time talking with the pros, understanding the reasons behind what they do, and getting a better understanding of the game past the concept of "hard counters" that you might have more ground to stand on with regards to your legitimacy as a caster and credibility as someone who has any reason to comment on Starcraft II. That's just me though
It is indeed, just you and those like you. I have to wonder when the last time you even watched a cast of mine was, but there comes a point when there is no real reason to continue conversations with people that don't understand what is required to commentate, having never done it themselves or not having any knowledge of how broadcast works. There is nothing wrong with liking some commentators and disliking others. There is something wrong with trying to claim that there is only one right way to do things and that everything else is incorrect and should be stopped.
It comes down to basic personal preference. Calling into question my abilities as a commentator isn't going to lend you any credibility, particularly since you've prefaced it with snobbery and insults in past posts.The funny thing about mentioning those pros, is that they are the ones who have said they like my commentary the most, perhaps because they watch casts to be entertained, not to be lectured. I can't count the number of pros I've spoken to that have said I'm their favourite commentator. Is that bragging? I hope not, it's simply proving a point that your perception of play-by-play commentary's appeal is incorrect.
I'm sorry that you've wasted so much time here but there's only so much attention one can pay to a random guy on the forums when other, more experienced and relevant parties are contradicting what he's saying. The wonderful thing about the scene right now is that you have plenty of options to choose from, something worth celebrating if one is interested in seeing eSports become more than a domain for the niche, hardcore fans.
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On April 12 2011 06:32 coolcor wrote:
JP and DJwheat are not experts and I bet they have said wrong things especially when not paired with an expert. How come they never get lots of complaints?
JP and DjWheat are more established within the Starcraft scene and are, arguably, very broad casters. That and they usually cast paired up with the greatest of analysts.
tehemperorer is obviously just trying to shoehorn his views down the throats of everyone else, and if that fails at least go out trolling.
And I'd take a high school football player commenting the NFL any day of the week if he proved to be more entertaining than the greatest of analysts. Of course, if I could I'd have them both.
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On April 12 2011 06:46 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 05:53 tehemperorer wrote:
A few things:
1. You do not make meaningful comments, at least you admit it.
Play-by-play commentators are not hired to make meaningful comments. Show nested quote +
2. So the wonderful thing about being a caster is that you don't need to know anything about the game?
Ridiculous hypebole with no basis in fact, discarded. Pubs and bars are filled with drunks not connisseurs. The industry exists and survives because of average consumers. To believe otherwise is delusional elitism. Show nested quote +
4. There are actually many viewers who want to hear the stuff which you claim "does not matter," you know, strategy and all that "irrelevant" stuff. I would point to the legions of Day[9] fans as an example.
And I would point to the legions of Husky, HD and TotalBiscuit fans as a counter-point. Unless you think Husky's 150,000 regular viewers, HD's 100,000 regular viewers and my 50,000 regular viewers are somehow irrelevant. Show nested quote +
5. There is no such thing of surface level analysis: Either you are discussing strategy or you are narrating exactly the same thing others are seeing. Most people don't need you to tell them there are now 3 marines on the screen, or that the Protoss player is expanding when they are watching the same game you are.
Nonsense for the first point. There is absolutely surface level analysis, which involves explaining possible options, such as 'well at this stage in the game, based on what he has, he could be going for X, or possibly for Y'. The second point has no basis in fact. The purpose of play-by-play commentary is to ensure that the spectator does NOT have to keep track of everything himself. Sports are watched on a couch with a beer and a packet of crisps. If SC2 is watched hunched in front of a monitor in the dark with the viewer scrutinising everything that's going on on the screen, then it has failed as a spectator sport. That is not sports entertainment, "e" or otherwise, that is a lecture. I have to wonder if you have ever watched broadcast sports at any point in your life. Show nested quote +
6. You are biased in believing that it "is good" and is "how it should be," because you benefit the most without putting in much actual work. You want to profit from the cash cow without ever having to milk it.
A fairly ridiculous point considering I'd be much better off if I didn't cast SC2 since my other videos pull in two to three times as much income for the same amount of effort. Once again your speculation has no basis in fact, which is a little hypocritical coming from a guy that's just been preaching that in order to discuss a topic you must have indepth knowledge of it. Show nested quote +
I don't expect you to spend months getting into masters league, but maybe if you spent time talking with the pros, understanding the reasons behind what they do, and getting a better understanding of the game past the concept of "hard counters" that you might have more ground to stand on with regards to your legitimacy as a caster and credibility as someone who has any reason to comment on Starcraft II. That's just me though
It is indeed, just you and those like you. I have to wonder when the last time you even watched a cast of mine was, but there comes a point when there is no real reason to continue conversations with people that don't understand what is required to commentate, having never done it themselves or not having any knowledge of how broadcast works. It comes down to basic personal preference. Calling into question my abilities as a commentator isn't going to lend you any credibility, particularly since you've prefaced it with snobbery and insults in past posts.The funny thing about mentioning those pros, is that they are the ones who have said they like my commentary the most, perhaps because they watch casts to be entertained, not to be lectured. I'm sorry that you've wasted so much time here but there's only so much attention one can pay to a random guy on the forums when other, more experienced and relevant parties are contradicting what he's saying. The wonderful thing about the scene right now is that you have plenty of options to choose from, something worth celebrating if one is interested in seeing eSports become more than a domain for the niche, hardcore fans.
I think my point is clear. I don't actually waste time, I plan my activities according to what I feel like doing. That is why I won't fall into this little whirlpool you've got going on here, but it's nice.
I will leave you with one thought: Too many communities allow newcomers to come in under the flag of "growing the scene." Oftentimes, the community doesn't realize that by growth, the newcomers mean "like a tumor" or "like a fungus." To presume you have any worth in a community the basis of which you don't understand is, in my book, grounds for contempt from those that have actual passion for their community. Some may disagree, and some may agree, but the point is that those who don't voice their disdain for casters who at face value don't love or know the game as much as they do have been heard in this matter. TL.net is a perfect example of the very same situation that you and other casters like you are becoming a part of. What first started out as a site for passionate discourse on a game a tight community gravitated to has turned into a forum of purges and bans because of how diluted and cheapened that discourse has become. That discourse is cheapened by people who have a very limited understanding of the game compared to how vocal they are about it, and I'm afraid I have to lump you and other casters in with these people. It's not elitist, it's disappointment.
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On April 12 2011 07:04 tehemperorer wrote:
I will leave you with one thought: Too many communities allow newcomers to come in under the flag of "growing the scene." Oftentimes, the community doesn't realize that by growth, the newcomers mean "like a tumor" or "like a fungus." To presume you have any worth in a community the basis of which you don't understand is, in my book, grounds for contempt from those that have actual passion for their community. Some may disagree, and some may agree, but the point is that those who don't voice their disdain for casters who at face value don't love or know the game as much as they do have been heard in this matter. TL.net is a perfect example of the very same situation that you and other casters like you are becoming a part of. What first started out as a site for passionate discourse on a game a tight community gravitated to has turned into a forum of purges and bans because of how diluted and cheapened that discourse has become. That discourse is cheapened by people who have a very limited understanding of the game compared to how vocal they are about it, and I'm afraid I have to lump you and other casters in with these people. It's not elitist, it's disappointment.
Oh it is very much elitist, you're comparing the lifeblood of the sponsorship of Starcraft 2's competitive scene to a cancer. Your point is crystal clear and I am very thankful that you sit in the vocal minority with little influence on the way eSports is heading. If you did, it would remain forever a tiny, irrelevant niche.
Consider me saddened, but not surprised. I was mistaken in believing you deserved such a thorough response considering your entrenched attitude, but at least nobody can say I didn't give you an opportunity to voice your grievances. Now, if you will excuse me, I have matchs and commentate and cancer to spread.
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On April 12 2011 07:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 07:04 tehemperorer wrote:
I will leave you with one thought: Too many communities allow newcomers to come in under the flag of "growing the scene." Oftentimes, the community doesn't realize that by growth, the newcomers mean "like a tumor" or "like a fungus." To presume you have any worth in a community the basis of which you don't understand is, in my book, grounds for contempt from those that have actual passion for their community. Some may disagree, and some may agree, but the point is that those who don't voice their disdain for casters who at face value don't love or know the game as much as they do have been heard in this matter. TL.net is a perfect example of the very same situation that you and other casters like you are becoming a part of. What first started out as a site for passionate discourse on a game a tight community gravitated to has turned into a forum of purges and bans because of how diluted and cheapened that discourse has become. That discourse is cheapened by people who have a very limited understanding of the game compared to how vocal they are about it, and I'm afraid I have to lump you and other casters in with these people. It's not elitist, it's disappointment. Oh it is very much elitist, you're comparing the lifeblood of the sponsorship of Starcraft 2's competitive scene to a cancer. Your point is crystal clear and I am very thankful that you sit in the vocal minority with little influence on the way eSports is heading. If you did, it would remain forever a tiny, irrelevant niche. Consider me saddened, but not surprised. I was mistaken in believing you deserved such a thorough response considering your entrenched attitude, but at least nobody can say I didn't give you an opportunity to voice your grievances.
Those in your boat should be thankful, it's how you benefit from not providing anything.
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On April 12 2011 07:14 tehemperorer wrote:
Those in your boat should be thankful, it's how you benefit from not providing anything.
As opposed to what you provide which is... what exactly?
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On April 12 2011 06:08 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 05:57 jmbthirteen wrote:On April 12 2011 05:20 tehemperorer wrote:On April 12 2011 04:58 dtz wrote:On April 12 2011 04:48 tehemperorer wrote: I know you think you understand the game, just like the high school all-star quarterback thinks he understands the game So you think a high school quarterback does not really understand the game.But earlier you said RTS games aren't as accessible as professional sports, so although they didn't play, they most likely played at some level in school In response to a guy saying that some NFL commentators does not play in the NFL. So you think they probably play football although not in the pro level ( aka high school level) and thus that give them the legitimacy to cast football games. Seems contradictory. It might seem contradictory to you, but then again you didn't think too deeply about it before you posted, did you? No it's just contradictory. And if you fail to recognize that, well I don't know what is going on in your head... How is someone playing high school ball different than HD being a mid master league Zerg, or TB being silver (or is it platinum now?)? They have a basic understanding of how the game works in both cases and thats all you need. They understand the units and their abilities, just like a high school quarterback understands the tampa 2 defense. RTS games are more accessible than hs sports because all you need is a copy of the game, you don't need to be a great athlete or anything. More people can play sc2 than can play hs football. How often do you even watch TB, HD and DJ Wheat? They all know the basics of the game and are able to read the games. They can provide plenty of analysis that will be needed for the average IGN viewer. Perhaps I can simplify it for you: You want a high school football player commenting on the NFL? Why is your opinion of the average IGN viewer so poor? When you talk about the term "accessible," how do you mean it? I hope it's not "accessible" in that it comes up frequently in day to day conversations between even total strangers, because in that case professional sports trumps SC2 pro scene. In that case, professional sports is more accessible because you know how to speak English.
You said Mike Tirico and Joe Buck probably played at the high school level. I agree. And guess what, I do want to hear them calling NFL, NBA and MLB games. So do millions of people which is why they get paid a ton of money by ESPN and FOX to do so. How are you not seeing this?
And RTS games are more accessible in the truest sense of the word. Anyone can go online and tune into a stream, play the game, come on team liquid and so on. Your definition is not what accessible means. Thats popularity. Accessible is how easy you can find/play the game. As long as you have a computer with internet, playing sc2 is a possibility. To play a high school sport, there are a lot more factors that come into play.
And about the IGN viewer: I don't view them so poorly. I view them as people who haven't become fans yet. The majority of them are people who probably haven't even watch a pro sc2 game before. They aren't your die-hard fan that is found on TL. They don't want to hear a bunch of hardcore analysis right off the bat. Honestly that would turn them off from it. They just want to hear the basics about the game and get introduced to it. Why do you think so many fans start with Husky commentaries and then find Day9 and TL and start to watch tournaments and such? Because Husky is a great way to introduce people to the game! He makes it excited and offers enough analysis for you to understand the basic understanding of the game. Eventually if it really shows promise and a ton of people are tuning into the IPL, then you add an analytical guy to pair with DJ Wheat and Total Biscuit. Right now they aren't at that state.
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On April 12 2011 06:46 TotalBiscuit wrote:
It comes down to basic personal preference. Calling into question my abilities as a commentator isn't going to lend you any credibility, particularly since you've prefaced it with snobbery and insults in past posts.The funny thing about mentioning those pros, is that they are the ones who have said they like my commentary the most, perhaps because they watch casts to be entertained, not to be lectured.
i'm sorry but you are such a hypocrite. you come off as both rude and snobby in a ton of your comments on this forum. it may be defensive a lot of the time but still..
and your lack of knowledge about the game is a huge problem, you constantly make wrong calls in games and blatantly force yourself to be excited about stuff you merely think looks exciting; i wonder at times if you have any interest in the game at all. But i watched some of your wow podcasts when i was still interested in playing cataclysm - i literally assumed you had only just started playing the game as you were not good at it at all, showcasing tol'barad as a mage without blink or ice block on your action bars, constantly s-keying, slow reaction speed in instances etc. but m8! you've played for 6+ years and were talking like a pve elitist to boot..
i dont mean to insult you needlessly, my point is that with so little gaming ability and knowledge i don't like it when tournaments pick you as a main caster, as it probably means they don't understand the games themselves and likely picked you based on your only real asset; your voice.
my theory is that you are fun for the (no offense intended) less intelligent viewer, and that is perfectly fine when it is confined to your youtube channel. It totally takes away from the experience of watching starcraft compared to listening to someone like artosis when you are casting an actual tournament though. i just listen to music with a muted stream if you are casting one that i want to watch, and i'd rather observe myself in that case anyway.
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look, if you don't like a certain caster, you don't actually find him entertaining OR informative. i really doubt people who dislike TB is like "IM SO ENTERTAINED BUT I DONT LIKE IT!" so this whole either/or thing for analysis/entertainment is stupid.
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On April 12 2011 07:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 07:14 tehemperorer wrote:
Those in your boat should be thankful, it's how you benefit from not providing anything. As opposed to what you provide which is... what exactly?
I play the game under no pretense that I have anything to provide to the scene. When I have build orders, I share them. When I have thoughts about the game that I play regularly, I share them. I don't believe that if I didn't play or think about this game as much as I do I would have any place in it's community. Why do you believe that you do?
EDIT: Point was with my original post: Consider casters that know what they're talking about so that IGNs proleague is as successful as it can be. Don't have the Bryant Gumbel play-by-play man of SC2 cast your games.
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On April 12 2011 07:17 tehemperorer wrote:
I play the game under no pretense that I have anything to provide to the scene. When I have build orders, I share them. When I have thoughts about the game that I play regularly, I share them. I don't believe that if I didn't play or think about this game as much as I do I would have any place in it's community. Why do you believe that you do?
Because I am not an elitist with a tunnel-visioned view of what the Starcraft 2 playerbase actually is. What more is there to say?
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Hmm.. I appear to have walked into the 'Hate on TotalBiscut' thread. It's been mislabeled the IGN Pro League.
Seriously - aren't you going to give TB/Husky/whoever a chance first before crapping all of them? I thought Husky was a mediocre caster, but when he's paired with a Chill/Day9/djWheat he can be really good. I don't see why TotalBiscut (who I haven't seen much of, but seems to be a more populist caster along the HD/Husky lines) doesn't deserve at least a chance. They've put themselves out there. Let them try and if it's horrible then you can actually make specific complaints instead of this hypothetical scenario that you both are constructing.
In other news - Go IGN! More tournies for SC2 is good!
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On April 12 2011 07:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 07:17 tehemperorer wrote:
I play the game under no pretense that I have anything to provide to the scene. When I have build orders, I share them. When I have thoughts about the game that I play regularly, I share them. I don't believe that if I didn't play or think about this game as much as I do I would have any place in it's community. Why do you believe that you do? Because I want something that I haven't worked towards earning. What more is there to say?
Fixed it for you. I think this is more in lines with actuality and not just words flung on a forum.
User was warned for this post
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On April 12 2011 06:46 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 05:53 tehemperorer wrote:
A few things:
1. You do not make meaningful comments, at least you admit it.
Play-by-play commentators are not hired to make meaningful comments. Show nested quote +
2. So the wonderful thing about being a caster is that you don't need to know anything about the game?
Ridiculous hypebole with no basis in fact, discarded. Pubs and bars are filled with drunks not connisseurs. The industry exists and survives because of average consumers. To believe otherwise is delusional elitism. Show nested quote +
4. There are actually many viewers who want to hear the stuff which you claim "does not matter," you know, strategy and all that "irrelevant" stuff. I would point to the legions of Day[9] fans as an example.
And I would point to the legions of Husky, HD and TotalBiscuit fans as a counter-point. Unless you think Husky's 150,000 regular viewers, HD's 100,000 regular viewers and my 50,000 regular viewers are somehow irrelevant. Have you also considered that part of the reason behind Day9's success is that he is a luminous, entertaining, charismatic personality who is very difficult to dislike and who has worked tirelessly within the community? There are plenty of other analysts that don't get a fraction of either his views or mine. He is not popular because he is an analyst, he is popular because he is Day9. Show nested quote +
5. There is no such thing of surface level analysis: Either you are discussing strategy or you are narrating exactly the same thing others are seeing. Most people don't need you to tell them there are now 3 marines on the screen, or that the Protoss player is expanding when they are watching the same game you are.
Nonsense for the first point. There is absolutely surface level analysis, which involves explaining possible options, such as 'well at this stage in the game, based on what he has, he could be going for X, or possibly for Y'. The second point has no basis in fact. The purpose of play-by-play commentary is to ensure that the spectator does NOT have to keep track of everything himself. Sports are watched on a couch with a beer and a packet of crisps. If SC2 is watched hunched in front of a monitor in the dark with the viewer scrutinising everything that's going on on the screen, then it has failed as a spectator sport. That is not sports entertainment, "e" or otherwise, that is a lecture. I have to wonder if you have ever watched broadcast sports at any point in your life. Show nested quote +
6. You are biased in believing that it "is good" and is "how it should be," because you benefit the most without putting in much actual work. You want to profit from the cash cow without ever having to milk it.
A fairly ridiculous point considering I'd be much better off if I didn't cast SC2 since my other videos pull in two to three times as much income for the same amount of effort. Once again your speculation has no basis in fact, which is a little hypocritical coming from a guy that's just been preaching that in order to discuss a topic you must have indepth knowledge of it. Show nested quote +
I don't expect you to spend months getting into masters league, but maybe if you spent time talking with the pros, understanding the reasons behind what they do, and getting a better understanding of the game past the concept of "hard counters" that you might have more ground to stand on with regards to your legitimacy as a caster and credibility as someone who has any reason to comment on Starcraft II. That's just me though
It is indeed, just you and those like you. I have to wonder when the last time you even watched a cast of mine was, but there comes a point when there is no real reason to continue conversations with people that don't understand what is required to commentate, having never done it themselves or not having any knowledge of how broadcast works. It comes down to basic personal preference. Calling into question my abilities as a commentator isn't going to lend you any credibility, particularly since you've prefaced it with snobbery and insults in past posts.The funny thing about mentioning those pros, is that they are the ones who have said they like my commentary the most, perhaps because they watch casts to be entertained, not to be lectured. I'm sorry that you've wasted so much time here but there's only so much attention one can pay to a random guy on the forums when other, more experienced and relevant parties are contradicting what he's saying. The wonderful thing about the scene right now is that you have plenty of options to choose from, something worth celebrating if one is interested in seeing eSports become more than a domain for the niche, hardcore fans.
Damn, nails and head here, Mr. TotalBiscuit. Nails and heads.
To be honest, I watch SC2 because I want to be entertained. I love Tastosis because they are basically 80% pure nonsensical blabbering and 20% analysis. I never managed to finish a single Day9 daily. The former is entertainment, the latter is, like Mr. TotalBiscuit says, a lecture. I'm one of those people who does certainly NOT want to spend his evenings attending lectures, ESPECIALLY not a a tournament.
If any of you want tactical analysis, go download a replay and scrutinize it yourself. Most people here at TL.net are diamond or higher, meaning that they are more than capable of analyzing the replays themselves. Chances are you're even way better than Tasteless, Artosis or Day9.
Just watch a soccer match, for instance. Will you hear the commentators talk about the in-depth tactical choices the coach took, or will you just hear them state "x passes to y" combined with some random fun facts about the player(s) or the team? I'm not a fan of soccer, but I've seen enough games to know that it's the latter. The fans want to see football and be entertained. They do most certainly not wish to be lectured. It's the drama and upsets that keep the game interesting, not the dry and boring strategic choices of the people in charge. People who attend matches at a regular basis know those tactics and don't need a commentator lecturing them about it.
Spectator Sports are purely about entertainment, not about scrutiny. If it fails to entertain, it fails to reach a big(ger) audience. Bigger audiences are needed to attract sponsors and keep the sport financially healthy. There will always be experts who want more (in this case: tl.net), but they're just a vocal minority in the bigger picture. To give you an idea: Husky's channel alone has about 450,000 people who are subscribed to it. HD has about 330,000. Teamliquid has 11,200 active members, and not all of them can be considered hardcore. Guess which is the more interesting audience for sponsors and organizers? I mean, a random video on husky's channel has about 55,000 to even 100,000 views. The GSL or TSL do not even compare to that.
And that's not bad, you know. I knew about teamliquid.net long before SC2 beta was out. I knew it was kind of a niche site about starcraft that went way beyond what most people could understand. It's gotten a lot more popular with SC2's release but still it's a niche site. Most people go "awesome you're in platinum (or higher)". Here people go "I suck, I'm only platinum". The strategy discussed on this forum is of a way higher level than anywhere else, and that's a feat you should be proud of. TL.net is and will for the foreseeable future remain the place to be for hardcore Starcraft fans. However, with that should come the healthy conclusion that you are a minority.
tl/dr: I consider myself a hardcore Starcraft fan but I'd never watch a stream where the casters would completely over-analyse everything they saw since that is completely and utterly boring to watch. Spectator Sports are there to entertain, not to scrutinize.
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lol dude way to take 5 seconds to check GSL stats
some random dudes who check out TB/HD/Husky will make their way over eventually to GSL, and more people watching GSL means moar GSL and other such tournaments with more analytic casters. there's no reason to think the sky is falling
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On April 12 2011 07:21 Amethyst21 wrote:
Hmm.. I appear to have walked into the 'Hate on TotalBiscut' thread. It's been mislabeled the IGN Pro League.
Seriously - aren't you going to give TB/Husky/whoever a chance first before crapping all of them? I thought Husky was a mediocre caster, but when he's paired with a Chill/Day9/djWheat he can be really good. I don't see why TotalBiscut (who I haven't seen much of, but seems to be a more populist caster along the HD/Husky lines) doesn't deserve at least a chance. They've put themselves out there. Let them try and if it's horrible then you can actually make specific complaints instead of this hypothetical scenario that you both are constructing.
In other news - Go IGN! More tournies for SC2 is good!
I want IGN to be successful for the players interest, and there is a group of casters that share the same qualities that bug me. If Husky is mediocre, but good when paired with Chill/Day9/DJWheat, why not find someone who is better than mediocre and pair them with Chill/Day9/DJWheat? Why should the viewer be subject to only half as good commentating as they could have had, if more work had been done in choosing the casters, especially if the viewer has to pay to view the games.
TotalBiscuit is on that certain list for me, and the only one who took offense in a forum and thought it worthy of a reply. He shouldn't act like he doesn't know how players view him. There is a group of casters who have proven time and again that they aren't the ones to be talking about a strategy game.
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On April 12 2011 07:04 tehemperorer wrote:
That discourse is cheapened by people who have a very limited understanding of the game compared to how vocal they are about it, and I'm afraid I have to lump you and other casters in with these people. It's not elitist, it's disappointment.
if Dan Shulman can be given a job at ESPN commentating MLB baseball then TotalBiscuit can be given a shot commentating SC2.
if TotalBiscuit is a complete bomb then the IGN Pro League and other event organizers will figure it out and never use him.
If like Dan Shulman he develops a following without having played the game at a professional level he'll slowly be given more and better broadcasting roles. it's really all about viewer numbers.
relax man its only 1 small season of a Pro League.
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On April 12 2011 07:22 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2011 07:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 12 2011 07:17 tehemperorer wrote:
I play the game under no pretense that I have anything to provide to the scene. When I have build orders, I share them. When I have thoughts about the game that I play regularly, I share them. I don't believe that if I didn't play or think about this game as much as I do I would have any place in it's community. Why do you believe that you do? Because I want something that I haven't worked towards earning. What more is there to say? Fixed it for you. I think this is more in lines with actuality and not just words flung on a forum.
Thankfully your opinions have no bearing on anything of note. Hopefully you feel better having vented your inner frustrations. It's made me feel better too, since I know now for sure that I am in the right, having heard how the opposing side acts and thinks. Galvanised to do a good job and to entertain people. I'm sorry if it upsets you that lesser beings enjoy Starcraft 2, but you can't stop that.
TotalBiscuit is on that certain list for me, and the only one who took offense in a forum and thought it worthy of a reply.
Offense? You are the guy who thinks that newbies are a malignant cancer upon the community, you find the very existence of play-by-play commentary offensive, your views are borderline psychotic in that regard. If anyone has taken offense to anything, it's definitely you.
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On April 12 2011 07:17 tehemperorer wrote:
I play the game under no pretense that I have anything to provide to the scene. When I have build orders, I share them. When I have thoughts about the game that I play regularly, I share them. I don't believe that if I didn't play or think about this game as much as I do I would have any place in it's community. Why do you believe that you do?
EDIT: Point was with my original post: Consider casters that know what they're talking about so that IGNs proleague is as successful as it can be. Don't have the Bryant Gumbel play-by-play man of SC2 cast your games.
Just because you don't like a particular caster doesn't mean they're not contributing to the community. You seem to have some idea of what is the 'proper' way to cast Starcraft and everyone who doesn't conform to that should stay away. Well, I hate to break it to you but if the entire scene was as narrowminded as you we wouldn't have an esports boom or large prize pools or pros with the skill level and practice regimens we do. You have to realise that while you may not like TB's style there are people who do and they are just as important to the sponsors (who are the ones keeping this all afloat) as you. If you want starcraft to go back to the cellars and $100 dollar prize pools then you may want to look into a different game because the rest of the scene is going for broke.
@TB: You're one of the top tier sc2 casters as far as I'm concerned and I'm really looking forward to your casting in the IGN. Don't let the haters get to you 
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EPT
