EPTOGN/MBCGame vs Blizzard, Third Session - Page 5
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DreamOen
Spain1400 Posts
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kochujang
Germany1226 Posts
On March 19 2011 16:52 Herry wrote: Blizzard joining Activision was the worst move they could possibly have done. I can't see all of this demand being only Blizzard. For many years they supported Pro starcraft games, because there are other games that are played as pro games, and its good for the industry as a whole if more games become more competative. And hey blizzard, imagine if there are none of your games in World championships of gaming. Think it wouldn't make a negative impact? Greedy fucks are getting worse, its not like they haven't made enough from Wow. Every year i lose respect for Blizzard because of their corporate greed. It wasn't their move to make, rather Vivendi which holds Blizzard. So your arguments pretty much invalid. | ||
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On March 19 2011 12:07 Noreh wrote: This is honestly going to turn bad for both sides before this is over but do we really want KeSPA with the control they have now? Yes, I am positive I'd rather KeSPA have the control that they have now. Not because they are doing such a standup job, or that they are in the legal and/or moral right. But because, at the end of the day, the alternative is that Blizzard has the control that KeSPA has now, and I have no doubt that they will basically kill off bw. I'm not saying Blizzard is being an ass just because they can do it, but looking at it from their perspective: 1. Whether, or not BW has helped promote their image/products in the past, it is no longer profitable to them now. They have a newer shinier sequel out which is now the focal point of their interests and killing BW now will not undo any potential benefit the competitive BW scene has brought them in the past. 2. BW now competes directly with their current interests, that being the promotion of the SC2 'proscene'. While obviously the two are still able to draw the attention of the crowd to each other. Blizzard is aware that many people still prefer watching BW over SC2, and while it is obvious that it's possible for a person to enjoy both, some people(like myself) simply don't feel the need to watch both (I don't feel that SC2 has any stand alone attraction to me, I see no reason to watch it while I can still watch the superior predecessor, etc) , and feel no need to accept the inferior substitute. I suspect Blizzard feels that they can force some of these people over to SC2 simply due to lack of alternative if the BW proscene dies. 3. The conflict of interest is not limited to people's preferences of proscene, iirc OGN/MBC once released some information regarding Blizzard actually wanting them to give up their broadcast timeslots for BW so that they do not compete directly with the time slots that Blizzard wants SC2 to be broadcast, obviously OGN/MBC rejected these ludicrous demands, but it goes to show that there is a material conflict between the proscenes of the 2 blizzard games. And given that Blizzard stands to make alot more money from the SC2 scene than the already established BW scene I can understand why Blizzard would look to the BW scene with animosity despite it being their own game. Given the 3 points above, I find it unsurprising that so far, virtually all of Blizzard's demands, irrespective of their legal standing(Yes I believe they might well have the legal high ground, so gogo Korean corruption??) seem to be more centred on subsuming, restricting and if not downright smothering the existing BW infrastructure rather than any realistic attempt to profit off it. Subsequently, seeing Blizzard's sinister if understandable motives, I can't help but want KeSPA and it's affiliates to win irrespective of legal or moral standpoint. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5347 Posts
On March 19 2011 11:18 emperorchampion wrote: To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL. Anyways, this all seems kinda pointless. Wouldn't it just have been easier/cheaper for the companies to just pay the fees that Blizzard was requesting? I guess I can see them not want to give anything, but still- I think they are going to lose something in the end, plus a costly court battle :/ As long as BW comes out at the end of the day... If KeSPA banned anybody from participating in gomtv events (back then), then how come several teams still expressed the willingness to play? Maybe one or two teams pulled out due to political reasons (and it wasn't until blizzard chimed in, after their negotiations with KeSPA soured), others had ligitimate reasons. Blizzard is/was demading $100k per season of each league, 100% rights (I think it's 50/50 now, but they'd still need blizzard's approval on everything) to the broadcasting materials (VODs/live broadcasts and shows related to BW, such as Hyung Jun becomes a progamer, etc. ...), maps, as well as separate contracts with KeSPA players and blizzard overriding their contracts with their respective teams. They also demanded to have a final say when it comes to OGN/MBC broadcasting schedule. I don't see how blizzard taking the whole BW scene hostage would be easier or cheaper. Gretech in their negotiations demanded PL taken out of the prime slots. What makes you think blizzard wouldn't move BW events to some obscure time slots to make room for sc2 events, like gretech wanted? With overriding contracts with the players, they can also force them to switch to sc2, which was part of their agreement with gretech - the switch from BW to sc2. With 100% control over the BW scene what stops them from doing just that? | ||
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Bijan
United States286 Posts
I don't feel qualified to comment on any other points (or this one I guess) but in a debate over IP rights KeSPA should not be given any reverence, especially after their numerous failings. *edit* - another point on how Blizzard wants to kill BW, Broadcasting Brood War, even today, helps sales of SC2. Who the hell doesn't buy the sequel to their favorite game of all time? I'm waiting for the die hard fans to chime in now with how they never bought the game, but you know in your hearts you're a vocal minority. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On March 19 2011 09:11 Weasel- wrote: How the hell can Blizzard actually be arguing this? Are their lawyers seriously that stupid? If I watch a movie on TV I'm going to be LESS inclined to go buy the movie; however if I see a game of BW on TV I'm going to be more likely to buy/play Broodwar. OGN/MBC are 100% completely correct in this case, and if TV broadcasts had never come along BW would never have sold as many copies as it did in Korea and elsewhere. Actually, if you really like the movie you may go and buy the DVD, so that you can watch it whenever you want instead of waiting for it to appear randomly on TV. I have watched Terminator and Back to the Future movies for a thousand times on TV, but I have their DVDs. So their analogy is plausible. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On March 19 2011 10:53 Lipski wrote: how would they have control over teams and players? from what i recall blizzard demanded pretty hefty broadcasting license from ogn/mbc, and should they pay that, everything goes on as it always had. ogn/mbc were willing to pay, just not that much, and that's why they are in court now. The terms were given out, and Blizzard did indeed want control over the players and ownership rights of every broadcast of anything related to Starcraft (which would include shows like Hyungjoon somehow). Having contracts that override their current ones is plain insanity. Hoping we get a fair ruling for this, not just for SC but this sets a precedent for the future as well on any other game where the developer just steps in and tries to assume control. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL. All KeSPA did was make the GOM events no longer count for KeSPA ranking (ie: no longer kespa sanctioned). They did not forbid anyone from participating. Stop spreading ignorant statements. | ||
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
now, sadly, I think it's actually KESPA. remember, the devil you know is often better than the devil you dont know. if broadcasting people playing a game isnt fair use I really hate to think of the implications of that. I mean, if someone plays a public performance with a fender guitar and a fender amp, they dont have to pay fender beyond the cost of the tools. but by Blizzard's definition, they ought to because all of the sound is being generated by Fender's product. without the guitar and amplifier, there is no concert. but in reality you are paying to hear the skill of the artist, and when we watch starcraft we want to watch the skill of the players. no one wants to look at some ancient 640x480 game if it's being played by randoms. just like no one wants to hear some wanker who cant play guitar. | ||
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hmsrenown
Canada1263 Posts
Now like I have always thought and said, it will be hard pressed to win against Blizzard, the source of the problem is kespa looking for revenue when bliz got none of the cake. I'm not worried that BW pro scene will be devastated at all. Things will go on as usual and bliz would get a really sizable pocket change. Oh and I don't believe fair use could be used as a counter-argument when you're actively generating revenue from viewers. | ||
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TunK904
United States340 Posts
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
On March 19 2011 11:44 elementz wrote: As for popularity? link to numbers please? BW is on its way down no way you can see it differently, it is much easier for a young kid trying to make it pro to join some open preliminaries than try and get a licence (inb4 KeSPA makes licences easier to get), and the game itself is more appealing because it is more pleasing to the eye. I would like to call out bullshit and call out numbers on this too. You want someone else to compare based on numbers (which is okay), but then you directly state that BW is taking a downhill slope (which is not okay, especially without numbers). | ||
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jimmyjingle
United States472 Posts
I honestly have no clue, I'm just asking. | ||
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nart
97 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
This isn't the blizzard that made SC1; it's its greedy uncle. | ||
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fxSolo
United States42 Posts
On March 19 2011 23:28 zul wrote: How weird would it be if Adidas sues the FIFA because they use their football for tournaments. I understand both sides of the argument but can we stop using this analogy. Footballs are not IP. | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
Nevertheless, I just want to see this court case decided one way or the other. Considering the growth of e-sports, especially in Korea, there was bound to be some conflict or debate over the extent of IP rights in broadcasting an e-sport. It is unfortunate that Starcraft had become the game to become the first center of that debate and the conflict that is expected to set a precedence for future e-sports, though it is inevitable for such a conflict to arise considering the rapid and sometimes unstable growth of e-sports. | ||
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