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I don't really understand what power would give the court the ability to do anything about #4, if OGN has recognised the rights and licensed them then surely any negotiation about obtaining said rights are a private business negotiation and nothing to do with the court. I mean unless it brings up some bizarre monopoly law or some korea specific mercantilist policy based law, isn't it just a case of Blizzard selling a product and OGN can either buy it or not?
Also on #1 you or the article writer put this note:
Note that KeSPA/OGN/MBC has recognized Blizzard has some rights over broadcast materials in the past, since for most of the negotiations what was offered between Gretech/KeSPA was 50/50 ownership rights over the game. The negotiations broke down when Blizzard basically stated that if Blizzard does not get 100% ownership rights this negotiations would be impossible. So yes, this is a rather important point.
Are on absolutely sure that says ownership rights and not ownership of broadcasting rights? I mean it's remarkably absurd for KeSPA to have ever contested ownership rights of the game itself or even sought to obtain them.
This leads into the other note where I assume the square brackets indicate it's a translator's note and not in the original text:
Blizzard's response to that is that because Starcraft's broadcast manufactures the game images, it does not fall under a performance of ingame video. Since there are also other elements included in the broadcasts such as commentating and Progamers, it is not just a performance of a purchasable merchandise. [Note: In this case do they really have 100% ownership rights of the game as they have claimed in the past?]
I don't really see how ancillary support such as commentating would make any difference to the ownership of the game or broadcasting rights involved, the Blizzard argument is that by adding overlays and commentary and so on over their video they're co-opting it into their own product (which presumably OGN/MBC protect from piracy under the same set of laws that Blizzard are referencing/invoking), not that they're adding directly to the original product as to facilitate some kind of part ownership of broadcasting it (which is a kind of ridiculous argument but presumably is meant to validate it under a fair use law).
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What contradiction?
I beat phoenix wright this week,
This case intrigues me.
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Yeah, theres no doubt OGN/MBC lost this. Blizzard made good points, but some are questionable and didn't even make sense. I don't know Korean so I can only speculate on the translation, but the gist of it is clear that Blizzard has a stronger case.
I would agree with the article on 'performing' but charging money for broadcasting someone's IP is a violation. Even someone that doesn't know much about this can understand that.
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Blizzard responded to the argument stating that Starcraft Broadcasts are not for educational nor criticism, so they do not meet fair use. Furthermore, Blizzard argued against the idea that Starcraft Broadcasts promote and help the industry grow. The argument is that it is nonsense to violate IP rights to have the game market grow. Blizzard wondered what was the difference between MBC/OGN's argument and a movie channel playing movies without asking for permission.
Blizzard does not manufacture then entire entertainment process though. Without MBC/OGN, or the players, it would be the equivalent of streaming an AI vs AI battle with no casting. MBC/OGN supplies the casters, and the progamers work hard to create entertaining games.
It's almost as if Blizzard is treating MBC/OGN like its piracy. I mean sure, I highly doubt that the sales of SC:BW has been effected by televised BW in the last 8 years or so, but the fact that a game like Starcraft has been accepted as a form of entertainment, the mentality behind the fact that a progamer can be a respectable reputation, Blizzard owes MBC and OGN that much.
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If they are arguing on the point of eSports, and trying to justify fair use- wouldn't it be prudent to draw the parallel between the American NFLPA and the governing organization, the NFL?
The NFL authorizes the broadcast and it cannot be broadcast without written consent- thusly the VODs and such could have royalties, but it would still be fair- no? How do the broadcast stations on American TV deal with this?
The NFL has its rules, they fine players for certain actions, but the NFL also sponsors community things like Play60 and the Boys & Girls Clubs, etc... I don't recall Blizz doing anything like that, so I suppose that parallel is shot.
I suppose I don't understand how the NFL and MLB and whatever other sports organization can make this work, and Blizz-Gretech / OGN-MBC can't figure a way to make this work out...
/RegionalIgnoranceJade
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Thanks for keeping us updated.
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Thanks for the update. Hope Blizzard loses this battle.
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On March 19 2011 09:11 Weasel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 04:28 Milkis wrote:
The argument is that it is nonsense to violate IP rights to have the game market grow. Blizzard wondered what was the difference between MBC/OGN's argument and a movie channel playing movies without asking for permission. How the hell can Blizzard actually be arguing this? Are their lawyers seriously that stupid? If I watch a movie on TV I'm going to be LESS inclined to go buy the movie; however if I see a game of BW on TV I'm going to be more likely to buy/play Broodwar. OGN/MBC are 100% completely correct in this case, and if TV broadcasts had never come along BW would never have sold as many copies as it did in Korea and elsewhere.
Maybe, but when they're playing those movies they've already paid for the rights to broadcast them
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On March 19 2011 09:02 moopie wrote:Thanks as usual Milkis for keeping everybody updated <3 Show nested quote +- The argument that this is for the growth of the e-Sports industry is a contradiction Show nested quote +Blizzard argued against the idea that Starcraft Broadcasts promote and help the industry grow. That is such a joke. Without S.Korea having BW as a televized e-sport for a decade SC2 as an esport wouldn't be even half as big now, which translates into a lot of gained sales over the years.
I lol'd
and yet there are still people who think a corporation is out to help esports and not themselves.
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They need to just make up, and establish a deal that is best for the players and the growth of eSports. Stop being a bunch of greedy dicks!
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Really. The solution that would benefit most for BOTH is one that promoted sc2 and esports to the fullest extent. This fight is blinded by short-term profits. Both parties stand to gain so much more from the fact that esports has the potential to be the biggest audience market of all time.
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On March 19 2011 09:18 Logginurkeyz wrote:
If they are arguing on the point of eSports, and trying to justify fair use- wouldn't it be prudent to draw the parallel between the American NFLPA and the governing organization, the NFL?
The NFL authorizes the broadcast and it cannot be broadcast without written consent- thusly the VODs and such could have royalties, but it would still be fair- no? How do the broadcast stations on American TV deal with this?
...
/RegionalIgnoranceJade
The difference is that a company didn't CREATE the game of "football". For instance, the National Football League (NFL) used to be two separate leagues that merged in the 1960s and the Super Bowl was originally a "show match" between the winners of the two separate leagues. Also, there have been multiple new leagues that tried to break the NFL's monopoly over American football over the years. In the 1980s the USFL tried and failed, and in the early 2000s the XFL tried and failed. The NFL could not stop these leagues from forming because it does not own the game of football. Rather, these rival leagues folded (or were absorbed) because the NFL paid higher salaries that attracted better players, and subsequently more fans, sponsors, etc. The NFL then owns the content created from its games, but no one owns American football.
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Blizzard owns the game, obviously they do not own the players, the commentary and the like.
But without the game there is absolutely nothing there, i am shocked that some people are actually trying to say Blizzard cant have full say in this, it is their own game.
OGN/MBC are 100% completely correct in this case, and if TV broadcasts had never come along BW would never have sold as many copies as it did in Korea and elsewhere.
Just because you promote something does NOT mean you have any rights over it, its just like making the argument that becuase Torrent sites put up movies to download, they should not be sued since some people go out and buy these movies later if they like them.
There is no argument to be had, Blizzard created and owns Brood War, there isent a single thing in the game that they do not have 100% control over.
The fact that their own property has been used without full consent for almost a decade and forced to be involved in this case for their own property is pretty alarming.
I understand your alligience to Brood War and wanting it to go on here, most of us (if not all of us) want that, however you also have to think realistically and logically here.
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I hope OGN/MBC just gives up this fight and pays what Blizzard/Gretech wants (it isn't so large that it is the end of the world), so that SC1 broadcasting can continue legally and SC2 broadcasting has a place to go.
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On March 19 2011 09:46 Dont Panic wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 09:02 moopie wrote:Thanks as usual Milkis for keeping everybody updated <3 - The argument that this is for the growth of the e-Sports industry is a contradiction Blizzard argued against the idea that Starcraft Broadcasts promote and help the industry grow. That is such a joke. Without S.Korea having BW as a televized e-sport for a decade SC2 as an esport wouldn't be even half as big now, which translates into a lot of gained sales over the years. I lol'd and yet there are still people who think a corporation is out to help esports and not themselves.
I rofl'd.
Who said KeSPA exist to help esports grow without gaining anything for themselves? But the fact that they have helped eSports grow bigger still stands. And Blizzard is basically saying that the success for BW in Korea has nothing to do with the people who promoted it and sponsored the prize pools. SUUUURE. This whole thing is so fking ugly, how can Blizzard be so damn greedy... They know that if it wasn't for BW, the SC2 scene and community would be bigger (therefore more money), so they will either try and milk BW more or completely shut it down. Both ways its bad for BW. KeSPA needs to win this.
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United States4126 Posts
Wow, this looks like it's going to take a looooong time to resolve. Both sides are so stubborn.
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On March 19 2011 10:11 dcemuser wrote:
I hope OGN/MBC just gives up this fight and pays what Blizzard/Gretech wants (it isn't so large that it is the end of the world), so that SC1 broadcasting can continue legally and SC2 broadcasting has a place to go.
The problem with that is, it's not just about the money, as OGN was willing to pay already. It's more about the rights and how Blizzard wants 100% control, which is kind of ridiculous because under their rules, they would have control over teams and players.
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On March 19 2011 10:37 Weedk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 10:11 dcemuser wrote:
I hope OGN/MBC just gives up this fight and pays what Blizzard/Gretech wants (it isn't so large that it is the end of the world), so that SC1 broadcasting can continue legally and SC2 broadcasting has a place to go. The problem with that is, it's not just about the money, as OGN was willing to pay already. It's more about the rights and how Blizzard wants 100% control, which is kind of ridiculous because under their rules, they would have control over teams and players.
how would they have control over teams and players?
from what i recall blizzard demanded pretty hefty broadcasting license from ogn/mbc, and should they pay that, everything goes on as it always had. ogn/mbc were willing to pay, just not that much, and that's why they are in court now.
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Thanks for the translation again, Milkis. It's really nice to be kept up to date on this issue.
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On March 19 2011 09:11 Weasel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 04:28 Milkis wrote:
The argument is that it is nonsense to violate IP rights to have the game market grow. Blizzard wondered what was the difference between MBC/OGN's argument and a movie channel playing movies without asking for permission. How the hell can Blizzard actually be arguing this? Are their lawyers seriously that stupid? If I watch a movie on TV I'm going to be LESS inclined to go buy the movie; however if I see a game of BW on TV I'm going to be more likely to buy/play Broodwar. OGN/MBC are 100% completely correct in this case, and if TV broadcasts had never come along BW would never have sold as many copies as it did in Korea and elsewhere.
Believe Blizzard was saying that violating IP rights hurts the game market and that they are breaking IP by broadcasting the game in the same way that you break them if you broadcast a movie.
If i read the OP correct, S.Korea is strange in the way that it is not illegal to play music/movies in a public forum but i think they are crossing a line when they broadcast it and play commercials etc and are obviously generating revenue.
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EPT
