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OGN/MBCGame vs Blizzard, Third Session - Page 3

Forum Index > Community News and Headlines
133 CommentsPost a Reply
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Kibibit
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1551 Posts
March 19 2011 01:55 GMT
#41
My opinion still stands (and is pretty well backed by what's presented here) As, while I believe Blizzard is definitely in the right, I'm sad about the inevitable damage this is gonna do to Pro BW.
R.I.P. 우정호 || Do probes dream of psionic sheep?
hidiliho
Profile Joined September 2004
Canada685 Posts
March 19 2011 01:59 GMT
#42

A question regarding IP rights.

Does this mean that personal SC2 streams are owned by Blizzard too?
I have a dream, that some day I wouldn't see any imba comments in GSL threads.
elementz
Profile Joined October 2010
United States281 Posts
March 19 2011 02:02 GMT
#43
The whole problem with MBC/OGN case is that they make revenue out of using said content, so they have to apy back, as well as all the negotiation before hand help blizzards case because it is evident that MBC/OGN do recognize the rights but they didn't want to pay for it.

It is the same as movies because they are making revenue, if they weren't making money out of it then it would easily fall under some Fair Use clause.
this mah s#$%$
Kibibit
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1551 Posts
March 19 2011 02:04 GMT
#44
On March 19 2011 10:59 hidiliho wrote:

A question regarding IP rights.

Does this mean that personal SC2 streams are owned by Blizzard too?

Likely yes, but to be fair, so are the songs played on most streams. Both would likely be prosecuted at the same rate (I.E. not at all)
R.I.P. 우정호 || Do probes dream of psionic sheep?
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
March 19 2011 02:05 GMT
#45
So are all of the people using justin.tv for streams and typing /commercial to make money between matches at risk for lawsuits?
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
March 19 2011 02:07 GMT
#46
On March 19 2011 11:05 Jaeger wrote:
So are all of the people using justin.tv for streams and typing /commercial to make money between matches at risk for lawsuits?

well not really, as, to be serious, those guys are making money from the commercials, not the actual content.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
March 19 2011 02:13 GMT
#47
On March 19 2011 09:06 fire_brand wrote:
I think if this was all about greed blizzard would be attacking other tournaments and shutting down online broadcasts of sc2. It seems that they are trying to ensure that there are no obstacles in place to control the growth for their esports scene.

If you guys remember Gretech/GOMTV used to run and broadcast very successful SCBW tournaments, but were basically shut down when Kespa/OGN/MBC banned players from attending these tournaments so their Esports monopoly in korea would remain intact.

It seems like a lot of what OGN/MBC is demanding is for the good of esports in korea, but we all know what they did in the past, so if I was blizzard I would probably take the same stance. Giving Kespa any controlling power over esports could be absolutely devastating.


Do you seriously have a source for this?

You do realise that if kespa had banned players from GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic then you wouldn't have even had 1 season of it? Instead there was 3 (not counting special matches)!!!

The reality of the issue is that the teams decided to focus more on proleague and osl and msl. There was just not enough prestigue/viewers/time to practice for GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic. They also had bad korean commentators (or so I heard).

SKT was the first team to pull out at the end of GomTV avertech intel classic season 2 and then over time the rest of the teams followed. This is why bisu could not defend his season 2 crown in season 3. It didn't stop Flash from winning season 3 though.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
agentheart
Profile Joined September 2009
22 Posts
March 19 2011 02:14 GMT
#48
On March 19 2011 10:37 Weedk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 10:11 dcemuser wrote:
I hope OGN/MBC just gives up this fight and pays what Blizzard/Gretech wants (it isn't so large that it is the end of the world), so that SC1 broadcasting can continue legally and SC2 broadcasting has a place to go.


The problem with that is, it's not just about the money, as OGN was willing to pay already. It's more about the rights and how Blizzard wants 100% control, which is kind of ridiculous because under their rules, they would have control over teams and players.



starcraft is currently under kespa's 100% control and they do control teams and players
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
March 19 2011 02:18 GMT
#49
On March 19 2011 11:13 aupstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 09:06 fire_brand wrote:
I think if this was all about greed blizzard would be attacking other tournaments and shutting down online broadcasts of sc2. It seems that they are trying to ensure that there are no obstacles in place to control the growth for their esports scene.

If you guys remember Gretech/GOMTV used to run and broadcast very successful SCBW tournaments, but were basically shut down when Kespa/OGN/MBC banned players from attending these tournaments so their Esports monopoly in korea would remain intact.

It seems like a lot of what OGN/MBC is demanding is for the good of esports in korea, but we all know what they did in the past, so if I was blizzard I would probably take the same stance. Giving Kespa any controlling power over esports could be absolutely devastating.


Do you seriously have a source for this?

You do realise that if kespa had banned players from GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic then you wouldn't have even had 1 season of it? Instead there was 3 (not counting special matches)!!!

The reality of the issue is that the teams decided to focus more on proleague and osl and msl. There was just not enough prestigue/viewers/time to practice for GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic. They also had bad korean commentators (or so I heard).

SKT was the first team to pull out at the end of GomTV avertech intel classic season 2 and then over time the rest of the teams followed. This is why bisu could not defend his season 2 crown in season 3. It didn't stop Flash from winning season 3 though.


To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL.

Anyways, this all seems kinda pointless. Wouldn't it just have been easier/cheaper for the companies to just pay the fees that Blizzard was requesting? I guess I can see them not want to give anything, but still- I think they are going to lose something in the end, plus a costly court battle :/

As long as BW comes out at the end of the day...
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
March 19 2011 02:21 GMT
#50
Blizzard profited from free advertising (SC2 would not be as popular as it is today without it..i.e., look at command and conquer)

They are not giving away pirated copies of the game for free (all copies of bw are legit and payed for by Kespa).

Blizzard shouldn't be allowed to own replays/broadcast/commentaries (do you think Microsoft should own the writing in every single word doc?)

Blizzard owns the game. Kespa agreed to pay royalties but Blizzard wants to kill the game and hence are demanding steep prices.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
Ordained
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
March 19 2011 02:23 GMT
#51
Another great writeup Milkis. Thanks.
"You are not trying to win, you are trying to be awesome" -Day[9]
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:24:54
March 19 2011 02:23 GMT
#52
On March 19 2011 11:14 agentheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 10:37 Weedk wrote:
On March 19 2011 10:11 dcemuser wrote:
I hope OGN/MBC just gives up this fight and pays what Blizzard/Gretech wants (it isn't so large that it is the end of the world), so that SC1 broadcasting can continue legally and SC2 broadcasting has a place to go.


The problem with that is, it's not just about the money, as OGN was willing to pay already. It's more about the rights and how Blizzard wants 100% control, which is kind of ridiculous because under their rules, they would have control over teams and players.



starcraft is currently under kespa's 100% control and they do control teams and players

I don't get it, what's your point? the teams are part of KeSPA and the leagues operate under KeSPA. Blizzard is demanding control over league contracts, player contracts, replays and auditing KeSPA and the broadcasting stations in addition to the royalties and league fees. Its no wonder that KeSPA, OGN and MBC find that ridiculous.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
March 19 2011 02:25 GMT
#53
On March 19 2011 11:14 agentheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 10:37 Weedk wrote:
On March 19 2011 10:11 dcemuser wrote:
I hope OGN/MBC just gives up this fight and pays what Blizzard/Gretech wants (it isn't so large that it is the end of the world), so that SC1 broadcasting can continue legally and SC2 broadcasting has a place to go.


The problem with that is, it's not just about the money, as OGN was willing to pay already. It's more about the rights and how Blizzard wants 100% control, which is kind of ridiculous because under their rules, they would have control over teams and players.



starcraft is currently under kespa's 100% control and they do control teams and players

Because the companies that are represented by Kespa pay for all the costs involved in the upkeep of the teams/practice houses as well as host Proleague and all the other minor and amateur leagues/competitions.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
nart
Profile Joined March 2011
97 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:33:36
March 19 2011 02:25 GMT
#54
This case could be argued in many ways depending on your stance. You could argue "if you manufacture a shirt and I wear that shirt to a multimillion dollar party, and this party happens to be broadcasting on TV, you have no rights in asking shares from the TV station or the party host"; or you can compare video game with movie like Blizzard does. Either way, there's no clear solution for this case. It's just happened that the fact that Starcraft generate revenue due to being on TV. This is the difference between Starcraft and other games. I've seen video games being broadcast on TV many times which include CS and Halo, but not one court case occurred except this one. It's simply because of the amount of money involved when a game is broadcast on popular TV channels and Blizzard couldn't stand watching money being generated by this game. It all comes down to muuuuneyyyyy baby.

However due to this case, I'm seeing the anti-Blizzard in Korea by esport agencies and media companies. That's the reason Starcraft 2 has not reached its potential like BW. This is the reason the number of SC2 copies sold in Korea is much lower than that of NA or EU markets. Nothing comparable to the 50% of BW market in Korea.

Sad for esport. Sad for SC2.
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
March 19 2011 02:27 GMT
#55
On March 19 2011 11:18 emperorchampion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:13 aupstar wrote:
On March 19 2011 09:06 fire_brand wrote:
I think if this was all about greed blizzard would be attacking other tournaments and shutting down online broadcasts of sc2. It seems that they are trying to ensure that there are no obstacles in place to control the growth for their esports scene.

If you guys remember Gretech/GOMTV used to run and broadcast very successful SCBW tournaments, but were basically shut down when Kespa/OGN/MBC banned players from attending these tournaments so their Esports monopoly in korea would remain intact.

It seems like a lot of what OGN/MBC is demanding is for the good of esports in korea, but we all know what they did in the past, so if I was blizzard I would probably take the same stance. Giving Kespa any controlling power over esports could be absolutely devastating.


Do you seriously have a source for this?

You do realise that if kespa had banned players from GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic then you wouldn't have even had 1 season of it? Instead there was 3 (not counting special matches)!!!

The reality of the issue is that the teams decided to focus more on proleague and osl and msl. There was just not enough prestigue/viewers/time to practice for GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic. They also had bad korean commentators (or so I heard).

SKT was the first team to pull out at the end of GomTV avertech intel classic season 2 and then over time the rest of the teams followed. This is why bisu could not defend his season 2 crown in season 3. It didn't stop Flash from winning season 3 though.


To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL.

Anyways, this all seems kinda pointless. Wouldn't it just have been easier/cheaper for the companies to just pay the fees that Blizzard was requesting? I guess I can see them not want to give anything, but still- I think they are going to lose something in the end, plus a costly court battle :/

As long as BW comes out at the end of the day...


This is after sc2 came out..blizzard started making crazy demands and used sc2 as a bargaining chip. I'm just tired of people saying that Kespa killed GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:39:16
March 19 2011 02:30 GMT
#56
On March 19 2011 11:05 Jaeger wrote:
So are all of the people using justin.tv for streams and typing /commercial to make money between matches at risk for lawsuits?


Click:

Dustin Browder Interview:
Q. So You guys are ok with YouTube channels and YouTube partners making money off your corporate content?

Are we? Can we stop them? Do we want to? I’m ok with it. And certainly lots of people around the world right now have jobs that are based on Starcraft. They make money out of it. But they also put a lot of work into it. They put a ton of effort into what they do. They certainly, from my perspective, they’ve earned the money. They contribute.


Now as for the statement in regards to this:

1. It's only related to more personal stuff (no big company like KeSPA for example).

2. Stuff like casters on youtube (BW or SC2) aren't really competing with Blizzard's bigger stuff.

3. Dustin Browder doesn't get a say in the big stuff.

Anyway this is just to point out that it seems okay to make money off of casting or so on youtube or streams.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
agentheart
Profile Joined September 2009
22 Posts
March 19 2011 02:39 GMT
#57
On March 19 2011 11:27 aupstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:18 emperorchampion wrote:
On March 19 2011 11:13 aupstar wrote:
On March 19 2011 09:06 fire_brand wrote:
I think if this was all about greed blizzard would be attacking other tournaments and shutting down online broadcasts of sc2. It seems that they are trying to ensure that there are no obstacles in place to control the growth for their esports scene.

If you guys remember Gretech/GOMTV used to run and broadcast very successful SCBW tournaments, but were basically shut down when Kespa/OGN/MBC banned players from attending these tournaments so their Esports monopoly in korea would remain intact.

It seems like a lot of what OGN/MBC is demanding is for the good of esports in korea, but we all know what they did in the past, so if I was blizzard I would probably take the same stance. Giving Kespa any controlling power over esports could be absolutely devastating.


Do you seriously have a source for this?

You do realise that if kespa had banned players from GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic then you wouldn't have even had 1 season of it? Instead there was 3 (not counting special matches)!!!

The reality of the issue is that the teams decided to focus more on proleague and osl and msl. There was just not enough prestigue/viewers/time to practice for GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic. They also had bad korean commentators (or so I heard).

SKT was the first team to pull out at the end of GomTV avertech intel classic season 2 and then over time the rest of the teams followed. This is why bisu could not defend his season 2 crown in season 3. It didn't stop Flash from winning season 3 though.


To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL.

Anyways, this all seems kinda pointless. Wouldn't it just have been easier/cheaper for the companies to just pay the fees that Blizzard was requesting? I guess I can see them not want to give anything, but still- I think they are going to lose something in the end, plus a costly court battle :/

As long as BW comes out at the end of the day...


This is after sc2 came out..blizzard started making crazy demands and used sc2 as a bargaining chip. I'm just tired of people saying that Kespa killed GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic.


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/GOMTV_Classic
elementz
Profile Joined October 2010
United States281 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:47:08
March 19 2011 02:44 GMT
#58
On March 19 2011 11:25 nart wrote:
This case could be argued in many ways depending on your stance. You could argue "if you manufacture a shirt and I wear that shirt to a multimillion dollar party, and this party happens to be broadcasting on TV, you have no rights in asking shares from the TV station or the party host"; or you can compare video game with movie like Blizzard does. Either way, there's no clear solution for this case. It's just happened that the fact that Starcraft generate revenue due to being on TV. This is the difference between Starcraft and other games. I've seen video games being broadcast on TV many times which include CS and Halo, but not one court case occurred except this one. It's simply because of the amount of money involved when a game is broadcast on popular TV channels and Blizzard couldn't stand watching money being generated by this game. It all comes down to muuuuneyyyyy baby.

However due to this case, I'm seeing the anti-Blizzard in Korea by esport agencies and media companies. That's the reason Starcraft 2 has not reached its potential like BW. This is the reason the number of SC2 copies sold in Korea is much lower than that of NA or EU markets. Nothing comparable to the 50% of BW market in Korea.

Sad for esport. Sad for SC2.

I very much doubt that anyone tuned in to see your T-Shirt, I am sure though people tune in to watch the movie that is playing, so it totally different, people tune into watch starcraft the revenue is created because of starcraft no revenue was created BECAUSE of your T-shirt.

As for popularity? link to numbers please? BW is on its way down no way you can see it differently, it is much easier for a young kid trying to make it pro to join some open preliminaries than try and get a licence (inb4 KeSPA makes licences easier to get), and the game itself is more appealing because it is more pleasing to the eye.

Most people on this thread are being defensive because of their love for BW but I doubt MBC/OGN has any chance of winning this.
this mah s#$%$
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
March 19 2011 02:46 GMT
#59
On March 19 2011 11:39 agentheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:27 aupstar wrote:
On March 19 2011 11:18 emperorchampion wrote:
On March 19 2011 11:13 aupstar wrote:
On March 19 2011 09:06 fire_brand wrote:
I think if this was all about greed blizzard would be attacking other tournaments and shutting down online broadcasts of sc2. It seems that they are trying to ensure that there are no obstacles in place to control the growth for their esports scene.

If you guys remember Gretech/GOMTV used to run and broadcast very successful SCBW tournaments, but were basically shut down when Kespa/OGN/MBC banned players from attending these tournaments so their Esports monopoly in korea would remain intact.

It seems like a lot of what OGN/MBC is demanding is for the good of esports in korea, but we all know what they did in the past, so if I was blizzard I would probably take the same stance. Giving Kespa any controlling power over esports could be absolutely devastating.


Do you seriously have a source for this?

You do realise that if kespa had banned players from GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic then you wouldn't have even had 1 season of it? Instead there was 3 (not counting special matches)!!!

The reality of the issue is that the teams decided to focus more on proleague and osl and msl. There was just not enough prestigue/viewers/time to practice for GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic. They also had bad korean commentators (or so I heard).

SKT was the first team to pull out at the end of GomTV avertech intel classic season 2 and then over time the rest of the teams followed. This is why bisu could not defend his season 2 crown in season 3. It didn't stop Flash from winning season 3 though.


To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL.

Anyways, this all seems kinda pointless. Wouldn't it just have been easier/cheaper for the companies to just pay the fees that Blizzard was requesting? I guess I can see them not want to give anything, but still- I think they are going to lose something in the end, plus a costly court battle :/

As long as BW comes out at the end of the day...


This is after sc2 came out..blizzard started making crazy demands and used sc2 as a bargaining chip. I'm just tired of people saying that Kespa killed GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic.


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/GOMTV_Classic


The teams/players wants to practice more for MSL/OSL/PL ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:47:56
March 19 2011 02:46 GMT
#60
On March 19 2011 11:39 agentheart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 11:27 aupstar wrote:
On March 19 2011 11:18 emperorchampion wrote:
On March 19 2011 11:13 aupstar wrote:
On March 19 2011 09:06 fire_brand wrote:
I think if this was all about greed blizzard would be attacking other tournaments and shutting down online broadcasts of sc2. It seems that they are trying to ensure that there are no obstacles in place to control the growth for their esports scene.

If you guys remember Gretech/GOMTV used to run and broadcast very successful SCBW tournaments, but were basically shut down when Kespa/OGN/MBC banned players from attending these tournaments so their Esports monopoly in korea would remain intact.

It seems like a lot of what OGN/MBC is demanding is for the good of esports in korea, but we all know what they did in the past, so if I was blizzard I would probably take the same stance. Giving Kespa any controlling power over esports could be absolutely devastating.


Do you seriously have a source for this?

You do realise that if kespa had banned players from GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic then you wouldn't have even had 1 season of it? Instead there was 3 (not counting special matches)!!!

The reality of the issue is that the teams decided to focus more on proleague and osl and msl. There was just not enough prestigue/viewers/time to practice for GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic. They also had bad korean commentators (or so I heard).

SKT was the first team to pull out at the end of GomTV avertech intel classic season 2 and then over time the rest of the teams followed. This is why bisu could not defend his season 2 crown in season 3. It didn't stop Flash from winning season 3 though.


To this point, KeSPA did actually forbid anybody with a progaming license from participating in the GOM events. But you are also right that the quality of the tournament, and importance placed on it wasn't up to the OSL, MSL and PL.

Anyways, this all seems kinda pointless. Wouldn't it just have been easier/cheaper for the companies to just pay the fees that Blizzard was requesting? I guess I can see them not want to give anything, but still- I think they are going to lose something in the end, plus a costly court battle :/

As long as BW comes out at the end of the day...


This is after sc2 came out..blizzard started making crazy demands and used sc2 as a bargaining chip. I'm just tired of people saying that Kespa killed GomTV Averatec-Intel Classic.


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/GOMTV_Classic


Some of those statements are biased and based more on hearsay than actual sources. The word "supposedly" in the brackets is a dead giveaway to this.
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
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