EPTIn the end, Blizzard owns the IP to the sound effects, the voice acting, the unit textures, the unit models, the icons, the GUI and even the game mechanics itself. If they want to put conditions on the broadcast of that material, they have that right. I think its dumb for them to play hard ball but that's not the question at hand.
OGN/MBCGame vs Blizzard, Third Session - Page 6
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PantsB
United States77 Posts
In the end, Blizzard owns the IP to the sound effects, the voice acting, the unit textures, the unit models, the icons, the GUI and even the game mechanics itself. If they want to put conditions on the broadcast of that material, they have that right. I think its dumb for them to play hard ball but that's not the question at hand. | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
Trolling aside, I do have one question. How is what OGN/MBC/KeSPA doing (financially) different from what incontrol (and many others) does with making money off coaching and commercials on his broadcast channel using a blizzard product? I'm not fishing for a specific response - I just don't know how it's different by law and/or EULA. Thanks a lot for the update, milkis! | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
OSL/MSL goes one for months right, to reach finals. Now, there was something I read that; KeSPA needs to pay the 'contracted' amount to broadcast BW every time they broadcast this on TV? I ask this because the post I read about this had a comment regarding this and it implied that Blizzard wanted OSL/MSL to last only for days and KeSPA argued that this is not possible because of the # of games needed to be played to get the quality players to reach the finals. | ||
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niilzon
Belgium105 Posts
Blizzard argued against the idea that Starcraft Broadcasts promote and help the industry grow This is really crazy.. Without all the broadcasts the game would never be that wide-spread, as it is today. IMO Blizzard is really not fair when stating this. Also, They pointed out that Blizzard has asked for not just for royalties, but also for fees to run tournaments and broadcasting fees. Is that a joke ? While they're at it, make us pay if we want to make a private tournament  I'm sad to read this, they are too greedy, don't you think ? | ||
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Smgzy
United States187 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
On March 19 2011 04:37 Doughboy wrote: Why were there different judges? Delay tactics by OGN/MBC? If I were a gambling man, I wouldn't be betting on OGN/MBC all that much and they likely know that too, so they are employing as many tactics with hopes to stretch this hopefully long enough for them to milk out as much as they can even if they lose. Personally I side with Blizzard, not because I love their games (which I do) but because I work in my countries IP office and KESPA/OGN/MBC stance on all this is on a very slippery slope, one that could very easily discourage industry growth for any number of other games, even if in this particular case they present themselves as a helping hand. This very debate is likely the main reason Blizzard will not back off from giving us LAN support even for huge tournaments. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:21 XsebT wrote: This case will outlast sc2. ^^ Trolling aside, I do have one question. How is what OGN/MBC/KeSPA doing (financially) different from what incontrol (and many others) does with making money off coaching and commercials on his broadcast channel using a blizzard product? I'm not fishing for a specific response - I just don't know how it's different by law and/or EULA. Thanks a lot for the update, milkis! the same reason you can sell your car without paying any business taxes but if you try and open a dealership you have to go legit | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
- Blizzard clearly should be allowed to collect (reasonable) royalties for the use of the game. A computer game isn't like a guitar or a spreadsheet program, no matter what you do with it the majority of the "content" is developed by Blizzard. I think the closest analogy would be a radio station playing a song, or maybe better another artist covering a song in concert. - However, based on esports precedent created (essentially) by Blizzard themselves, royalties should be fairly low and "control" is unreasonable to expect at this point. IIRC the first effort Blizzard made at collecting any money was in 2007 (in retrospect, probably as part of preparation for SC2), meaning the scene had been allowed to exist untouched for 8 or 9 years. Ideal solution: case is judged that royalties are owed (possibly even back-payments); independent auditor/arbitration is appointed to determine what is reasonable; control remains with the individual tournament organizers*. * Although I really think we need to allow some sort of reasonable veto from the game maker, in case the KKK or the Illinois Nazis or somebody wants to use a product to run a tournament. But I'm not sure how to do that without it (in this case) instantly being abused by Blizzard/Gretech to veto the MBC/OGN broadcasts. | ||
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MaximDoro
Russian Federation1 Post
 .I haven't researched the entirety of the issue at hand, so I may be missing some details that would impact my reasoning. However, this issue should be fairly straight forward. All this should really boil down to is: does OGN/MBC/etc violate any guidelines established in the Terms Of Contract and/or the End-User License Agreement? If yes, Blizzard is in the right. If no, OGN/MBC are not in the wrong. All the points they are arguing should have no bearing on the decision. If Blizzard did not have any statements in the EULA - that OGN/MBC agreed to when installing the game on their various systems - that state, in some form, that BW cannot be broadcast/shown/displayed/etc in a public forum without express permission of Blizzard, they have no ground to state that OGN/MBC/all others are violating their IP. Their property is being used in the manner in which it was created for, but with "bystanders" that are observing and commenting on the game in front of them. The same as it would be if it were played at a LAN and people are physically surrounding the computers of the players. The scale of the observing has no bearing on the legality. Now, if the TOC/EULA does have language that prevents users of their property from displaying/broadcasting the game, whether that be at all or a specific definition of the scale, OGN/MBC would be absolutely wrong. Now, I am going on a limb that OGN/MBC/GOMTV/whoever are not retards, and that they actually reviewed the TOC/EULA before deciding to fight the matter in court. This would suggest to me that the language is either not in the agreements, or there is language that they intend to dispute (either the legality or wording/ambiguity). Regardless of the points each side makes, the issue should be resolved in the expressed contract that Blizzard has everyone agree to before the game is played. Without reading the TOC/EULA, I would side with OGN/MBC because I doubt they would decide to fight this in court without thoroughly reviewing the contract Blizzard established. And I doubt that Blizzard is pursuing this for profits resulting from broadcasting. They just want BW to be the secondary game, with SC2 taking the lead role in all tournaments. They know what eSports in Korea did for BW/WoW, so of course they want SC2 to be broadcast on the same scale as BW has been. | ||
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Akill_
United Kingdom80 Posts
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GriMeR
United States148 Posts
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2WeaK
Canada550 Posts
On March 20 2011 20:15 niilzon wrote: This is really crazy.. Without all the broadcasts the game would never be that wide-spread, as it is today. IMO Blizzard is really not fair when stating this. Also, Is that a joke ? While they're at it, make us pay if we want to make a private tournament I'm sad to read this, they are too greedy, don't you think ?You're supposed to get a license from Blizzard for any tournament that you host. Blizzard can charge a fee if they feel like it. They charge a license fee to the OGN/MBC because they make profit from hosting a BW tournament. Sure it comes from the ads, but what brings people to watch the tournament? | ||
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XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
On March 21 2011 01:52 turdburgler wrote: the same reason you can sell your car without paying any business taxes but if you try and open a dealership you have to go legit so with that logic... what's gosucoaching? | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
Also, much like people have to sign papers to be in a movie or televised event which basically states their image and created content can be used to make money. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On March 20 2011 10:02 aimaimaim wrote: Just a question for ANYONE KNOWLEDGEABLE. OSL/MSL goes one for months right, to reach finals. Now, there was something I read that; KeSPA needs to pay the 'contracted' amount to broadcast BW every time they broadcast this on TV? I ask this because the post I read about this had a comment regarding this and it implied that Blizzard wanted OSL/MSL to last only for days and KeSPA argued that this is not possible because of the # of games needed to be played to get the quality players to reach the finals. Blizzard is trying get OSL/MSL qualifiers and up to maybe ro16 to be offline and not broadcast to reduce fees/royalties likely. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On March 21 2011 11:43 aksfjh wrote: One also needs to remember the EULA in these kinds of cases. Blizzard has the right to demand how their software is used. If they so choose, they can prevent it from being broadcast at all. Also, much like people have to sign papers to be in a movie or televised event which basically states their image and created content can be used to make money. Sure but there should be a limitation on how much they can get legally in return (which is the point of this case.) I agree with OGN/MBC and think the demands by Blizzard set on them to broadcast multiple tournaments is pretty absurd. If they win that part of the case that is good for esports. Also to sum up one of the points they are arguing about. "Hey all my friends are watching these tournaments and the game looks really fun. Let's go buy a copy." I don't agree with the position that after 8-10 years of broadcasting starcraft that Blizzard would just pull the plug on it since it's almost a national sport and be like sorry guys go find something else to do. I don't even care if they "legally" have the right to. I'd just think they were a bunch of dicks from here on out if they did that. | ||
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Buuuu
Poland18 Posts
Also i don't think they would shut broadcasts down, they know that it is good for them. I guess they just want to squeeze every dollar they can out of it. If that's not the case they might be thinking about making sc1 less so that some of the shine might go to sc2. Who knows what they really want. | ||
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RoundSquare
Canada1 Post
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