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On November 03 2010 05:12 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:51 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 04:47 Pandain wrote:On November 03 2010 04:45 NB wrote:
i just woke up... god panda sure hate Dr.H xD I hate scum. Now can we please change from Aeres to Dr. H, Aeres barely has anything on him besides the fact he lied, and plainly I don't see why he would lie if mafia. What tangible gain would there be besides possibly having medics protect other people? But we know that didn't happen because mafia didn't take advantage of that and end up shooting the bodyguards/dsxcii(since they would know aeres was fake) and dr. h. Sorry, but LAL policy does not work if the lie itself does not make sense from a mafia perspective. While I agree with this posts, and some of the points you made, I disagree that lynching our mayor on day2 is a smart idea. Can we at least give him one more night? Maybe he'll make something of his role, he'll get some sort of confirmation, etc. He is one of the FEW who has claimed, so he should be easier to confirm/bury than the rest, don't you agree? It just seems unreasonable for me to lynch the mayor after one day of ruling, that is all. Please let me know what we have to lose if we give him one more night/day to perhaps clear his name? 1.If there is a roleblocker, they'll just keep on roleblocking him. unless they cant roleblock twice in a row2.If there's not(or if he is mafia), then he can just continue to claim he is/claim the other person is lying. that assumes i made my role up. i already explained why this is a ridiculous assumption. stop making me say the same obvious things over and over again to prove you wrongHe's claimed like, two different things that he says his role can do, but says they can't now. no i didn't And I also disagree that just because he's mayor we shouldn't lynch him, on the contrary, mafia having two votes is a bane for the town. assuming i am mafia which you seem to have doneShow nested quote +On November 03 2010 05:02 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:You say he probably just made an honest mistake? what makes you believe this? I feel I've pointed out a huge inconsistency in Aeres' defense and everyone seems to be ignoring it. Is the inconsistency where Aeres says he hopes that DC isn't the body guard? This makes sense, he assumes DC soft claimed (so did a lot of other people) so he decides to fake claim to draw a hit. Then he says he hopes DC wasn't the body guard after all and that the real second body guard is hidden. This makes sense, under his false claim he's trying to trick the mafia further by adding a third person into the body guard mix. This all made sense from his perspective when I try and put myself in his shoes it seems like a logical strategy. Regarding Pandains post; I don't think we should lynch Doc H tonight, he's still to valuable if he's telling the truth. We need to lynch either Aeres or YM, I've already stated I think YM should be lynched because I think he's more likely to be scum but if we lynch Aeres and he flips town then it tells us just about the same thing as a YM lynch: we need to look at Doc H. If YM is blue or Aeres is red then I'm completely lost  If, if, if IF! I don't see how everyone can be so oblivious to how transparent Dr. H has been. or how transparent you have been in your attempts to make me look bad IF he's telling the truth, then he'll never be able to confirm it since mafia will keep roleblocking him. why do you assume the mafia have infinite roleblocks? you've made a lot of assumptions about powers mafia have throughout this game that a townie would have NO way of knowing for sure. THAT's suspicious.The only way we could get him to confirm is if mafia does not have roleblocker and Jcarl lied, but I find that highly unlikely. or there was another role that blocked what I had done such as a bus/redirector/commuter/hiderAnd I disagree with Dr. H being lynched not telling us about other people. It gives us insight about YM and Aeres no it doesn't, it's all WIFOM smoke and mirrors. If I'm mafia Aeres could be a bus. Both YM and Aeres defended me and Aeres defended me more, who's more suspicious in this case? Neither., and in addition we can't lynch YM(I'm pretty sure he has a role which means he can't be lynched.) you're prettttty sure? lol bullshit. he could be unlynchable (which typically works once), judas, or saulus, or a new insane role that artanis invented. worthless speculation and another possible soft fish for a roleclaim.
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On November 03 2010 04:48 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:39 L wrote:On November 03 2010 04:25 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote:
But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it.
You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless.
I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role. First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts. Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion. So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos. Way over the top on the defensive, bro. I did check your post history, in the past 30 pages its pretty much all reaction. What chaos am i creating? I stated your role doesn't make sense. I didn't say its your fault. If it isn't you that's holding back info, mafia can probably fuck with you. And that's some kinda crazy wild theory? Sorry, this offensive defense doesn't cut it. Voted for you. Yeah, I was thinking that you might vote and try to start a bandwagon shortly after I posted that. You stated my role doesn't make sense. I begged to differ, other players did as well, and that's when you started to theorize. Not just once, but you came up with many different reasons why I would be lying, all of which are based on roles that exists in your mind alone, as far as we know. That's where the wild theories are. Please remember this, your logic and where it came from, when my role will be revealed (either by death, end of game etc.). If nothing else sticks to you from this game, then let it just be this: You'd rather make up a whole imaginary scenario in your mind, and rely your game-plan on that, rather than give someone the benefit of a doubt.
Cube, feel free to read my posts. I made no 'gameplan' based on imaginary stuff. I said your role seems fishy. I asked if you were hiding something. You said no, but that even if you were, you wouldn't tell me anything (lol wut, why bother saying that?). I pressed you again because of how much you were slipping up. You then went batshit crazy. Normally I'd expect a newer town player to react like that, but you've been around the block more than once so you know better.
This is the second time you overtly mischaracterize my posts. Last time someone went out of their way to do that it was Ace and he was mafia, so get your shit straight. Additionally this defense has been almost entirely composed of "I don't agree" with no rationale behind it.
If other people agree that you're fishy, they can feel free to vote for you. It can't be worse than voting out Aeres to die when the entire argument group is probably town on town rape melee.
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I'm going to vote Aeres because 1) I don't believe there is a better candidate at the moment and 2) if he doesn't die now, we're going to be having this argument for the rest of the damn game. Not that I think arguments are bad, but we will never get off the subject of Aeres and start looking at other people if we don't make up our minds completely one way or the other right now.
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I assume you'll actually address the actual argument, no?
On November 03 2010 05:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
While I agree with this posts, and some of the points you made, I disagree that lynching our mayor on day2 is a smart idea. Can we at least give him one more night? Maybe he'll make something of his role, he'll get some sort of confirmation, etc.
He is one of the FEW who has claimed, so he should be easier to confirm/bury than the rest, don't you agree?
It just seems unreasonable for me to lynch the mayor after one day of ruling, that is all. Please let me know what we have to lose if we give him one more night/day to perhaps clear his name?
1.If there is a roleblocker, they'll just keep on roleblocking him.
unless they cant roleblock twice in a row
fair point, but I'm not just going to keep you alive because you *may* confirm yourself if i think your scum.
2.If there's not(or if he is mafia), then he can just continue to claim he is/claim the other person is lying. that assumes i made my role up. i already explained why this is a ridiculous assumption. stop making me say the same obvious things over and over again to prove you wrong Just thinking of Caller's insane busdriver claim, I wouldn't be suprised if you can do the same. Also, you don't neccesarily have to have made it up. You could've known about it from previous games(even outside TL), you could still have the role and BE mafia, and so forth.
He's claimed like, two different things that he says his role can do, but says they can't now.no i didn't read my post And I also disagree that just because he's mayor we shouldn't lynch him, on the contrary, mafia having two votes is a bane for the town. assuming i am mafia which you seem to have done read my post
If, if, if IF! I don't see how everyone can be so oblivious to how transparent Dr. H has been. or how transparent you have been in your attempts to make me look bad You can counter argue me by saying I'm scummy, but I trust in the faith of the town to believe arguments, not blind statements IF he's telling the truth, then he'll never be able to confirm it since mafia will keep roleblocking him. why do you assume the mafia have infinite roleblocks? you've made a lot of assumptions about powers mafia have throughout this game that a townie would have NO way of knowing for sure. THAT's suspicious. I don't think I've played a game where roleblocker couldn't roleblock more than once. In addition, knowing how Artanis phrased it(in a traditional game...) and the fact this is not makes me think they indeed can.The only way we could get him to confirm is if mafia does not have roleblocker and Jcarl lied, but I find that highly unlikely. or there was another role that blocked what I had done such as a bus/redirector/commuter/hider Meaning you would've poked someone else, no? And I'm pretty sure Jcarl would say something if he was commuter/hider or something. And what's a redirector?
And I disagree with Dr. H being lynched not telling us about other people. It gives us insight about YM and Aeres no it doesn't, it's all WIFOM smoke and mirrors. If I'm mafia Aeres could be a bus. Both YM and Aeres defended me and Aeres defended me more, who's more suspicious in this case? Neither., It can still give info. If you flip scum, then anyone who defends you will be looked upon with suscipcion. Ignoring that aspect of the game is silly. and in addition we can't lynch YM(I'm pretty sure he has a role which means he can't be lynched.)you're prettttty sure? lol bullshit. he could be unlynchable (which typically works once), judas, or saulus, or a new insane role that artanis invented. worthless speculation and another possible soft fish for a roleclaim. he said "I would defend myself but I don't feel the need. I took that to mean he will not be lynched again,.
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I know one fact about Dr. H that is pretty much rock solid.
+ Show Spoiler +He's gonna get over 9000 posts because of this game
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People that are yet to vote:
CubEdIn, Fishball, Lunardestiny (Are active and I assume will vote soon)
Beneather (Recent replacement, might not realise he needs to vote)
Misder, (Has been active earlier today, but not for a few hours. Don't want to lose him, he's made some good points  )
KtheZ, Divinek, (Inactive, will probably be modkilled)
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I will spare Beneather should he fail to vote since he replaced ghrur in the middle of the day.
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On November 03 2010 05:39 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 04:48 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 04:39 L wrote:On November 03 2010 04:25 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote:
But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it.
You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless.
I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role. First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts. Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion. So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos. Way over the top on the defensive, bro. I did check your post history, in the past 30 pages its pretty much all reaction. What chaos am i creating? I stated your role doesn't make sense. I didn't say its your fault. If it isn't you that's holding back info, mafia can probably fuck with you. And that's some kinda crazy wild theory? Sorry, this offensive defense doesn't cut it. Voted for you. Yeah, I was thinking that you might vote and try to start a bandwagon shortly after I posted that. You stated my role doesn't make sense. I begged to differ, other players did as well, and that's when you started to theorize. Not just once, but you came up with many different reasons why I would be lying, all of which are based on roles that exists in your mind alone, as far as we know. That's where the wild theories are. Please remember this, your logic and where it came from, when my role will be revealed (either by death, end of game etc.). If nothing else sticks to you from this game, then let it just be this: You'd rather make up a whole imaginary scenario in your mind, and rely your game-plan on that, rather than give someone the benefit of a doubt. Cube, feel free to read my posts. I made no 'gameplan' based on imaginary stuff. I said your role seems fishy. I asked if you were hiding something. You said no, but that even if you were, you wouldn't tell me anything (lol wut, why bother saying that?). I pressed you again because of how much you were slipping up. You then went batshit crazy. Normally I'd expect a newer town player to react like that, but you've been around the block more than once so you know better. This is the second time you overtly mischaracterize my posts. Last time someone went out of their way to do that it was Ace and he was mafia, so get your shit straight. Additionally this defense has been almost entirely composed of "I don't agree" with no rationale behind it. If other people agree that you're fishy, they can feel free to vote for you. It can't be worse than voting out Aeres to die when the entire argument group is probably town on town rape melee.
You do realize that I have no fear of being voted for with less than 4 hours left. There's no way I'd get majority that fast, with this little evidence.
I'm just asking you to remember this moment when roles will be revealed.
I didn't go crazy, I got angry because these kind of posts are the ones that I stood up against from day one. And the fact that you don't care about the simple coinflip of "is he lying or not" and choose to go based on your own theories (doesn't really matter if they were wild or reasonable). That's what makes me irk.
And this whole "he's being super defensive so he must be mafia" is pretty much bull, and very "WIFOM", and pretty much encourages lurking, but oh well.
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On November 03 2010 05:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I will spare Beneather should he fail to vote since he replaced ghrur in the middle of the day.
Oh i'm just reading up and trying to get in to the game. To see who I should vote for the deadline is 7:00 KST right? I'm planning to vote if I do not please Spare ! :D lol thanks
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On November 03 2010 05:57 Beneather wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 05:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I will spare Beneather should he fail to vote since he replaced ghrur in the middle of the day. Oh i'm just reading up and trying to get in to the game. To see who I should vote for the deadline is 7:00 KST right? I'm planning to vote if I do not please Spare ! :D lol thanks
Ah, good. The deadline is 08:00 KST. If you can vote, then please do.
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Alright, let me put this plainly.
There is no reason Aeres would lie if mafia. If Aeres was mafia, then the only reason he would fake claim bodyguard is if mafia wanted to kill DXCII and Dr. H. But, as we see, neither of those died.
So there is no reason Aeres would fake claim bodyguard if he was mafia.
If he was town, however, Aeres would discourage mafia from shooting mayor(if Dr. H wasn't :p), and even himself because he roleclaimed the hiding role.
Aeres is not mafia.
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On November 03 2010 02:28 Infundibulum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 00:21 Nemesis wrote:
Exactly. I thought we were supposed to lynch people for being SCUM, not for lying. This is a bit of a ridiculous policy. Why must it be one way or the other? We have to consider things case by case, not handle them all the same. Lynch all Liars is a metagame policy that extends beyond just this round of mafia. I still have trouble coming to terms with it because last game I was in LAL got a couple townies lynched. Because they lied and fucked up the town, and mafia pushed LAL on them. Even so, as a long term policy LAL can and will discourage these lying plays on both sides, town and mafia and so it should be used. As for Aeres, I'm guessing if lynched he's going to flip town. There's less of a motive for claiming BG as a mafia, since the purpose of claiming BG is to draw a hit and the mafia won't hit itself. The other thing is mafia completely ignored 666's bodyguard softclaim, for whatever reason.
Exactly why I don't like it. Mafia can use it against town every time someone gets caught for minor inconsistencies in his posts.
I really dislike the bandwagon on Aeres right now because of LAL. YOU SHOULD LYNCH SOMEONE BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY ARE SCUM NOT STUPID LAL.
If Aeres flips town, I will go batshit crazy on all the people that bandwagoned him.
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On November 03 2010 04:26 Pandain wrote:An Analysis of Dr. H: or Wtf Why Must You Post So Much Summary: Dr. H has lied no, deceived no, and misled the town no. If anyone really wants to, I can go on, but just by seeing the first couple hundred posts it should be obvious how scummy Dr. H is ok please make ur case lol. In addition, just noting right now, the fact that there are bandwagons going on which I believe have been started by mafia to hide the fact that Dr. H screwed up hard. Dr. H has lied about his role no i didn't ;o, given false facts, contradicted himself countless times, and wasted by 2000th post Appeal to Emotion :3. Basically, we can see some main thing which indicate he's scum. 1. He's lied about his role, and aspects regarding itFor example, we see he constantly has said things about his role which obviously he now says he cannot do. For instance: + Show Spoiler +On October 30 2010 04:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 04:32 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 04:26 Amber[LighT] wrote:On October 30 2010 04:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 04:01 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 03:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
he would need to have 5 of his other scumbuddies fake being part of this "circle" in order to convince us he isn't lying meaning town would just be handed 6 mafia on a plate
like i said all we would need is for other people in the circle to come out and post their game related PM's to eachother in this thread. if there is no circle, obv, they get modkilled or they are mafia. it's pretty easy.
if no one is willing to do that we lynch fishball. the first person to come out gets rolechecked by the DT i'm assuming we have. having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game Well we don't even know if this circle actually exists. I suspect it does, but until someone else within the circle steps forward, we won't know for sure. if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple. we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle. now imagine these scenarios: neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia playersneutral circle 6 town aligned playersneutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia playersfrom a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue. that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him. How do you identify the one mafia player in a group of 6? You're ignoring the odds in this scenario. Or is there something I'm missing? I'm still not cool with role claiming. It's going to create headaches to sift through countless and infinite role possibilities. It will clutter this thread with nonsense finger-pointing. If anything claiming to Fishball is safer, so then he can direct actions. The town as a whole doesn't need to know what everyone's roles are. Only Fishball needs to know, which then I would see a valid reason for Fishball to take the mayor position. This doesn't "confirm" Fishball, but we would then have to take the risk of electing a possible mafioso. We will know if things aren't looking right by Day 3/4 anyway. ANd as someone already said, Fishball has something we can trace back. He is now accountable for the actions of this "PM Group," if one exists. I need more convincing before I throw a vote on him though. i'm not cool with roleclaiming either, but people in this group should come out. it is otherwise too easy for fishball to lie about this. if we know who is in the circle, we know who has out of game information, we know who to keep an eye on as town. if there are mafia in that circle they will have to play twice as good as they would normally have to play. if the whole circle is mafia, faking it to save fishball, we will likely dominate them and win the game easily do you get where I'm going with this? even if there is only 1 mafia in the circle, we at least confirm there is a circle with townies in it and that is useful information for us. it's not necessarily about finding and killing mafia (it would be lovely, in fact i hope it's all a mafia lie), but it's a win/win scenario for town no matter what happens. Dr.H, I don't understand you. You were in full support of Fishball, because the opportunities that can arise from this alleged circle are great. Even in this post, you are supporting the possibilities of the usefulness of this circle. But then you change your vote to Pandain? Why? Right now, I feel like Fishball is a good candidate. I think the benefits of having him in the circle could very well outweigh the negatives of having a Mayor who can talk in private. However, I will not give him my vote until someone else from the circle steps forward. because mayor can't be rolechecked thats why im not voting for fishball
but i can further confirm the possibility that he is town in the night (my role is sorta complex and im just figuring out all of its applications) and i'm considering changing back and putting more pressure on the pandainwagon Alright. Stop here. Look at the bolded quote. He says he can confirm someone is town, yet from what he claims now his role cannot do that at all.
No I didn't say I can confirm he is town. I said I can "further confirm the possibility". You are so good at twisting what I say Pandain, it's almost like you're trying to do it ;o. I figured that if Fishball was in a PM circle with a mafia he would be an ideal M-rus target. If I my confirmation failed and he instead came back as having M-Rus, I would feel comfortable saying he was a town player. In fact it's now pretty likely that anyone infected with M-rus is more likely town than they are mafia, so I was and have been under the impression that some of the information I get from my role could point toward a persons alignment.On October 30 2010 04:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i remembered incorrectly about youngminii
he bandwagoned fishball NOT bumatlarge
this makes more sense, why would a scumbuddy come to the fake rescue of someone who isn't scum. that gives me more to think about. I'd really really really like a DT to rolecheck fishball. I can only kinda determine whether they may or may not be town and even then it ends up in a bit of a WIFOM situation.
the reason i feel weird about pandain is because his election reminds me a lot of the time when i was elected as scum mayor in my first mafia game and the way its going is very similar to that.
i wish there were more than 2 legitimate candidates that both come off as suspicious to me.
now that youngminii was voting for fishball, I'm less sure. I know youngminii in haunted mafia when he was vampire, he was a smart guy and always explained what he said in vampire chat. he's not the kind who would just say meaningless bullshit if he was town imo Back tracks on his statement he can confirm if he's town, but still says he can, in some way. Dr. H, this is very suscipcious. Everyone please look at what pandain is doing. I said before "I can further confirm the POSSIBILITY fishball is town, and now I'm saying basically the same thing. I qualified both statements. Pandain has invented a lie here and if you can read a 3rd grade level or higher it is quite obvious.On October 30 2010 04:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
my power is actually really simple but the applications of it are complex and I'm finding them out as I think and play more
at first i was like "wtf am i gonna do with this power it sucks" Couldn't you just ask artanis.... I did and he said he can't advise me on how to use the role and I needed to figure it out myself.On October 30 2010 05:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:58 Aeres wrote:On October 30 2010 04:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 04:52 Aeres wrote:On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.) Whoashit, this changes EVERYTHING. I'm very curious as to what you mean by not needing a Plague Doctor... some sort of immunity to Murrayitis? Or perhaps you're Mafia, and your role is to spread the virus... On the other hand, your posts so far do point you out as a townie, and your experience in past games does lend you the sort of aura of command I think a Mayor needs. I'll ponder this some more. i will tell everyone exactly what my role is and what it does and then I will confirm my role to someone who has been rolechecked who can then confirm it in the thread that's all very confusing but basically as soon as I am elected I will prove I am not mafia or you can lynch me. How are you going to find and recruit a Detective role, and convince him to cooperate? I mean, we're all pretty much in the dark here, so unless a Detective acts of his own accord, I don't see how you'd find one to help, short of being in Fishball's circle (assuming it exists at all). On October 30 2010 04:55 annul wrote:
i havent thought of who i would lynch because there hasnt been any traction for my candidacy yet
but i think mayor candidates shouldnt reveal this anyway because if they would go after a mafia, it may incentivize other mafia to vote against them or to not vote for them when they otherwise would I admit, I didn't think of this. Good point, Annul. I won't press the issue any further. This is true. But I can confirm that I am the role I say I am. The only problem is confirming it to the right person. Alright, but you've already said wrong things about what you say your role is, and so far we don't know if you can even really confirm your role. Like what? You haven't pointed out any of those things so far pandain...On October 30 2010 07:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
there is a second way i can confirm my role
if i somehow miss my confirmation, i can confirm it indirectly as well. and i will always get a second chance the next night to directly confirm it. AND WHAT THE FRICK IS THIS WAY? I want this answered now, Dr. HOh it's pretty simple. If my confirmation doesn't go through and I am told the person has M-Rus then I can instruct plague doctors to cure that person. I can then indirectly confirm, through plague doctors, that my ability can discern who has M-Rus or not.On October 30 2010 07:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:56 Amber[LighT] wrote:
DrH I'm willing to throw my vote on you if you're going to seriously get the town organized. I am not confident about the FB vote and I still feel comfortable about Pandain, but if you really want the mayoral power I'll support you. You're the only person that's putting forth the effort to organize a strategic plan past the first night. here is my basic plan for organization: 1. at night i can confirm to one player that I am who I say I am. 2. that player confirms to the town my role 3. hopefully masons will induct me into the circle 4. with my power i can help coordinate other roles, I don't want to say too much as to how right now. There are only two scenarios in which the 1st step can fail. They are very very very very very very unlikely. If the person I confirm to is mafia, they can just lie and say I didn't confirm to them or never bring it up. Mafia will be forced to confirm that I am blue, or I'll out them for lying. I can be much more specific when I'm sure I can not be killed at night. Points out that his plan could fail if one of these happen, but say they're very unlikely. Yet now he's bringing it up as defense. Also, I thought he said his role can confirm another players role, didn't I point that out? No i didn't say that but you did point it out very aggressivelyOn October 30 2010 07:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:08 Coagulation wrote:
How do we know the person who is "verifying" your confirmation of your role isnt just a Scumbuddy of yours? well they would be ideal for a rolecheck this would be incredibly dangerous play as mafia to out my scumbuddies as the game progresses. every time i confirm to someone i will be claiming it. it is possible the person i can confirm to is a mafia, i have no way of knowing someones alignment. but look at this play from the perspective of me being mafia and it really makes no sense. I'm going to out all of my mafia compatriots just to win the mayor position? you'll see very soon that the information I'm providing will be beneficial to the town and we'll see real results in numbers. I'm putting my head on a plate for you guys if I turn out to be a liar. I can back this up. Notice a trend that Dr. H is doing. He claims he can be confirmed, leaves an out, yet the fact remains that he's constantly saying that he's almost certainly going to be confirmed, that he even laters says he is 100% confirmed, and even uses the old "trust me, If I'm lying lynch me." Yet we've now caught him as lying, and what do people do? They hop on another bandwagon! this is still quite early in the game when I hadn't yet fully considered the possibility that my role could be insane. you haven't caught my lying yet tho, keep trying to invent lies. it's workin for you REAL well so far.On October 30 2010 07:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:10 Coagulation wrote:
Maybe Godfather Will verify so no one can DT check him properly
thats possible right? of course it's possible but look at this play in the terms of the game overall. think for a minute that I am mafia. I would essentially be outing my entire team to the town over the course of the game. Wrong if your lying about your role/do not have the role at all. And we've already pointed out you've lied about your role.... no you didn't point it out. Maybe we should lynch you for lying about me lying? LAL right?On October 30 2010 07:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:10 Node wrote:
DrH, you forgot another scenario in which the first step would fail. If you're mafia, you could just ask a buddy, or hell, the Godfather (presuming he exists) to confirm your role. He posts and the townies are none the wiser. The mafia gets inducted into every circle there is and is put in a position of power.
I'm not sold, yet. there are other things to my power that will prove beyond any doubt that I am a pro-town player. they may not take affect immediately but everything will be quite clear when I am elected and roleclaim Which is.....? Back up your claims, dr. h The plague doctor thing I mentioned earlier. I said later when I fully roleclaimed that the mafia would have no incentive for a role that stops M-Rus from spreading, still quite sensible don't you think?On October 30 2010 07:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Well, I see it this way. Dr.H has no reason to give us the names of another Mafia member just to get the Mayor position. I mean, sure, it's a nice position, but worth losing teammates over? Not sure...
There aren't 22 scum like there were in Haunted, there are many fewer (I forget exactly how many). This means that every time a mafia member dies, it is a bigger hit this game.
I hope there wouldn't be more than one shape-shifting role in the mafia.
One question though:
Does the Godfather get chosen Day1 or Night1?
If Godfather gets chosen Night1, then Dr.H couldn't possibly be shapeshifting now. Also, since he is roleclaiming immediately after being elected, it wouldn't give the Mafia enough time to have a Godfather, so even if he's Mafia, the person he would be claiming to wouldn't be shapeshifting yet. Or something to that effect... Godfather would be chosen on the first day I believe I have a small chance of confirming myself to a mafia. Mafia can then come out, get rolechecked, and sacrifice themselves to kill me So in the freak scenario that this happens I would plead town to wait a day before lynching me. Not to mention it could be the miller as well. There are other things to my role that will confirm me as town but I want to make a disclaimer, I have no way of knowing what other players roles are (I certainly don't have DT powers) so I have as much chance as anyone of acting upon mafia. Since I really think it's obvious he's mafia, I'm just going to start going on that assumption,and why everything he does makes sense if he is mafia. Of course, I will still be pointing out errors and fallacies but time to set gear into overdrive. lol I don't even know what to say abou thow ridiculous you are. This whole post of yours is so scummy pandain that it hurts but you are also one of the worst scumhunters in the game so I can't really be sure.Alright, so now he says his role cannot tell what another person's role is, says there are other things that can confirm him(yet says nothing else besides the fact he claims he can confirm himself, yet hasn't.) Right, it can't necessarily tell since it is possible later mafia will be infected with M-rus, but I said there was a possibility my role could help confirm a player as being LIKELY pro-town. Never said I could do anything like rolecheck.On October 30 2010 08:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
why would you vote for someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned?
If I'm not elected, I will likely be protected by a medic. I'm not that worried about dying tonight if I lose the election.
what is your reason not to vote for me, because I'll die if I'm not elected? my role is really only useful if it's known to the town anyway. the most useful ability is to confirm myself as town to other players, it's ideal that a player with this role would be mayor. Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Why did we elect someone who can't confirm themselves as town aligned. Unfortunately, we did leave out the possibility of a roleblocker, but again, the fact he should have been thinking about that and the fact we don't know the roles I'm suscipcious of the "Well, maybe there's a roleblocker" excuse. I can, jesus christ my role still works but there are ways it can be interfered me. I dropped the 100% thing when I considered my role more fully as well as the possibility of insanity.
I should have considered a roleblocker? I did but didn't want the mafia to know I was scared of it. If I should have conisdered it so should EVERYONE when I roleclaimed. In fact I'm surprised no one brought it up.On October 30 2010 08:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:14 Ace wrote:
Where did I tell you how to use your role? If I did that isn't my intention. I really don't care about your role, I'm more interested in your ability as a scum hunter. So far you haven't shown the ability to think beyond 1 step of a plan so you don't seem worth it as a Mayoral candidate. What makes you think I haven't planned out how to use my role throughout the game?You're telling me to stay quiet and then come out tomorrow with what needs to be said. I'm offering coordination to the town with guaranteed protection. If you don't think thats better than what pandain is offering (nothing) then I don't really know what to say. What lack of foresight? My plans are long-term plans on how I will use my role to benefit the town. The first step is confirming my identity, the second step is using my powers to coordinate the town in a way that is crucial to our survival and victory. I've put the finger of suspicion on more players than you. Coagulation, youngminii, you haven't really done much in the way of scumhunting either. Mind telling me who you think is scum, if anybody? While scumhunting is important to me, being mayor will without a doubt maximize the effectiveness of my role and give the town coordination it needs in this game. It's pretty simple. Well for one, just seeing what happened tonight makes me think if you are town you didn't think everything through. And I'm still confused on how being mayor maximizes your effectiveness if your town, I mean, you can still do everything the same. Basically, you can confirm yourself as town, and that's it. But even that is in question. On October 30 2010 09:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:53 Divinek wrote:On October 30 2010 09:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:45 Infundibulum wrote:
Also anybody running on the platform of "I will roleclaim if I am Mayor" needs to reconsider their platform in light of the fact that the mayor can be rolechecked.
Additionally, Artanis alluded to the possible existence of elements that can tamper with role check results - e.g. a framer or insane DT - meaning that a rolecheck on the mayor night 1 is possibly useless, as any rolecheck-tampering would almost certainly be directed the mayors' way.
Finally, remember confirming a players role ability != confirming a players alignment. I can prove my role is what I say it is without having to be rolechecked and if anyone tries to fake a rolecheck on me they'll be incriminated when I prove them otherwise. I can't fathom any way you can do this that doesn't involve the possibility of you just getting your mafia buddies to help you do whatever it is you say you can do I dont like the idea of just picking someone for what they say they are able to be or capable of. I'm more inclined to go with someone who has shown they can actually be useful instead of spewing confirmability. Whatever it is you say you can do to confirm yourself i have no doubt the host put in something to make it possible to compromise the integrity of your claim. It's silly that you could try to be concrete on something so unknown to anyone. I would rather have someone leading with clearly good intentions and capable of doing something instead of saying well guys i can be confirmed, cause once someone gets elected the spot lights so heavy it's ridiculous anyway My role has two basic abilities: -to confirm itself to another player at night. basically I can send a signal to another player once per night that confirms I am the role I say I am. -to assist in stopping the spread of the plague. i will use this role to reliably coordinate the night actions of plague doctors and the results will show in the murrayitis counts. Both of these actions can be proven, they have results that cannot be faked. Secondly, (more like the hundred time I've said this and people don't listen) If I were mafia using mafia to fake my confirmation ability. This means I have to consistently out scumbuddies for the entirety of the game just to stay alive. And for what? Immunity to nightkills that won't happen since I'd be mafia in the first place? Mafia benefit from being mayor isn't big enough in a normal game to do a play like this, much less in a game like this where the mayors power is severely reduced. What am I offering beyond my role? Simply put the town can trust me. I've put myself in a do or die situation and I'm more than prepared to back up what I'm offering. I can offer immense coordination that is OPEN to the town. I won't jump on poor mafia bandwagons. I'm not running on the basis of being a mayor that will do whatever the town (i.e mafia) tells him to do. I'll try my best to cut through the bullshit and use my votes the right way. So, now we know you were lying nopeabout the second way to confirm yourself. And how could you confirm another player. There are so many things you've claimed about your role which now are being pushed aside. And now your saying mafia doesn't have anything to gain from trying to get mayor when previously you said it's valuable. It's valuable. I'm not saying Mafia has NOTHING to gain. I'm merely saying we should not operate under the assumption that mafia HAD to have a major candidate. It is possible myself, fishball, bumatlarge, and you are ALL town aligned players although your recent posts make me doubt that.'
Words like possible, maybe, consider, etc. qualify my statements. Never said mafia wouldn't want mayor. I could see why mafia would NOT want the position particularly after Artanis said rolechecks would still discern a mafia mayors alignment and the fact that no one dropped out after that struck me as odd. I was hoping someone would since it would be a nice trap.
So this is the section where you pointed out my lies specifically about my role right? funny there were no lies to point out in it. Maybe you hoped no one would read this and would just assume you found a buncha my lies?
There are numerous examples of him either backtracking on stuff or just lying/misleading. nice that you've yet to point out oneNote many times he tries to lie/mislead/deceive, and if called out on it he will back down if by back down you mean explain myself?. Yet if no one does, he continues driving it home, embellishing it further and further and trying to establish it as fact. Even without taking into account the time's he's lied/contradicted himself on his role let's see some posts by him: + Show Spoiler +On October 29 2010 07:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2010 07:43 CubEdIn wrote:
And what happens if we elect a mayor and he's mafia?
See, I only played haunted before, so I'm only getting used to the basics, but this one seems pretty crazy, so what guarantee is that we elect a good mayor with little to no information about him/her?
Also, do we know of anyone who is definitely blue? having a mafia as mayor is a blessing and curse for the mafia the extra vote power (which im guessing mayor has in this game) is super useful late game but mayor also has a lot of extra scrutiny on him which means he has to play very well. First real post this game. Right off the bat I notice this is different from what he's saying now, which is mayor is not useful for mafia and they wouldn't want to have it. Contradiction is noted, but opinions can change. Moving on... ROFL. I never said that. I NEVER SAID MAFIA DON'T WANT MAYOR. I said it makes sense if they wouldn't want it and people should not operate under teh assumption that they do. THAT IS 100% CONSISTENT WITH MY FIRST POST. wow dude.On October 29 2010 14:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
lying can be advantageous if you're town
as long as you do it smartly Yet now he accuses Aeres? Despite the fact Aeres actually was pretty smart in what he did? wtf is this. I think Aeres is scum, that's why I'm voting for him. He wasn't smart, he fell into a scumtrap I didn't evenr ealize I set.On October 30 2010 04:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
even if fishball isn't elected, we should go through with my gambit
that is if no one else from the circle claims at the end of the day, we lynch fishball. everyone who claims gets rolechecked to make sure it isn't a big mafia trick.
if it is a big mafia trick:
we win the game, easy as that.
if the mafia ditch fishball:
first day mafia kill, woo!
the only troubling scenario is where only the few mafia in the group come forward or say, the mafia in the group get rolechecked first, then we start killing the townies in the circle.
I think maybe electing Fishball might be a bad idea since he is then unable to be rolechecked. Mafia doesn't want to kill people in the circle, since if they are in it, they want to manipulate the information as much as possible.
also I suggest a plague doctor does not visit the mayor tonight. that is for reasons I can not tell you.
I'm going to vote for pandain since he is the only other choice. I have a weird feeling in my gut that he is scum but he is incredibly transparent and obvious as a player Very anti town as well. First of all, he says we should check everyone who claims, when we would only have to check one. If it's mafia, then we know it's a lie/ we can check another person who claims. If not, THEN we lynch Fishball. But if we reveal a town, then we can stop, as he would be telling the truth. It's a sensible play, and it helps us determine if his circle is real or a mafia lie. If one town player confirms he is in the PM circle and is rolechecked, then the circle is real. IT's that simple.I don't see why Dr. H would be saying we should do this. And also his reason of not electing fishball: "he's unable to be rolechecked." before I knew mayors could be rolechecked.Isn't that true for everyone? it isn't true for anyone reallyFinally he says he suggests a PD not visit mayor. Why is this, dr. H? either because I was running/going to run at this point and I didn't want a PD to visit me since I'm immune. I wasn't planning on fully roleclaiming until I was grilled for my campaign anyway.Also, he has started to say in here he is wary of me because of a supposed bandwagon on me. Sadly, I did not look into this enough. Let's analyze the facts: 1.He claims there is a bandwagon on me. This implies two things: 1.There is a group of people who just bandwagoned on voting me.
2. They give little to no reasonBoth of these are outright lies. Like 5 people voted for me OVER THE COURSE OF 18 HOURS OR SO. And dr. H even voted for me! Finally, he claims they gave no reasons. Hmm... let's look at these posts coagmeepaknode also but I lost the exact link. -,-. So 3/5 gave at the very least a decent reason. So basically he accused me based on the fact two people didn't explain their votes fully enough. Can't believe I didn't notice this... bad/empty reasons. most of the people who voted for you voted for you because youw eren't me or fishball.On October 30 2010 08:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:07 Coagulation wrote:
Because hes not trying really really super hard to be mayor i figure hes just a good honest townie offering to take the spot and do his best.
you guys are gonna start tearing each other to shreds over the role makes me think you got something else going on. yet he has a huge bandwagon you are really intent on making me look bad in this game aren't you. too bad you have no good reasons for it Again says I have a huge bandwagon, when I do not. Also coag has been bringing up good points on dr. h. On October 30 2010 04:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i'm gonna run for mayor
pandain has a big bandwagon that isn't saying shit about why they are electing him for the most part which is really suspicious
fishball needs to be rolechecked and the scummiest player is on his bandwagon and having him not be mayor makes things easier for town
i think by my posts everyone can see I'm pretty clearly town aligned. I can also roleclaim safely then and I will tell you that I have a very useful role that can help us coordinate to win this game. there is also no chance that i will die as mayor so plague doctors would not need to waste their night action on me and can protect other people
i'm a huge target for my experience and value to the town, why not get me protected so medics can protect somebody. i'd like to see our experienced players survive the night (infundi, ace, bumatlarge, fishball, brownbear, etc.) So, your running for mayor because your "clearly town aligned"(hmm... look at this post so far). You say your a huge target from mafia, yet also say so is fishball, and both of you would have to be rolechecked(actually can't -.-) hey look ! pandain lied! mayors can be rolechecked and it works! did you not know that or did you just forget?. So you really have no reasons other than you would later reveal you can be confirmed, but that's in high question right now. On October 30 2010 06:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:14 Pandain wrote:On October 30 2010 06:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
actually it's pretty bad for town to have fewer candidates Its even worse when several blues run claiming they are important..... since that means they're either mafia or going to get sniped off. everyone is a blue in this game lol i'm the only candidate aside from node who is claiming to offer 100% proof that I am not mafia when I'm elected, just saying you have offered nothing yet have a huge bandwagon behind you for whatever reason 1.No bandwagon. And 2 people not explaining enough is not a "huge bandwagon." 2.Yeah, 'bout that 100% proof. early in the game before I really considered all the ways my role could go wrong OR that it was insane.On October 30 2010 07:29 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:27 Coagulation wrote:
DocH You basically said YOU WILL PROVE your town and then basically said "MAYBE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS I WILL PROVE IT IM NOT SURE"
I dont think pandain would be the greatest mayor
However
i would rather pandain then Annul and his manipulation if he is RED
and i would rather pandain then fishbowl and his "EXTREMELY SHY?? circle"
I would really really like for you to make me feel comfortable voting for you for mayor. but your doing a bad job so far.
let me put it this way there is a 1/39 chance i will fail in confirming my role to the town there are multiple ways i can prove my identity over the course of the day. so you would rather vote pandain who offers nothing? you're doing a bad job at discrediting me. considering that mafia are probably shitting their pants over the idea of a confirmed townie with great coordination powers become immune to nightkills I'm not surprised someone is trying their best FoS And these other ways of confirming your self are? explained earlier when you tried to call me a liar for saying this.And I did offer stuff, I just don't outright claim it because there's a good chance I wouldn't be elected, and I don't want mafia to have any more information about me than neccesary. that is fair.On October 30 2010 07:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:17 NB wrote:
people are moving too fast, im having a hard time to catch up your conversation T_T poor excuse, i know your play. you watch the thread very intently while communicating avidly within a scumcircle why even mention it? feeling guilty about your inactivity or do you just like to clutter up threads for no reason baseless assumption no it's not, i watched him lead the mafia in haunted and that is exactly how he played.On October 30 2010 07:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 07:29 Coagulation wrote:
FISHBOWL =FISHBALL Sorry. Wheres This guys circle at?? wouldnt they claim by now?? there are a lot of inactive players right now calm yourself What about NB, then? I don't even know what you're getting at with thatOn October 30 2010 08:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:46 kitaman27 wrote:On October 30 2010 08:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 08:42 LunarDestiny wrote:
when you quote, please quote the time too.
Those two posts have a big time difference between them. but that wouldn't make me look scummy so what's the point right? Four hour difference. Not exactly way way back if you ask me. I'm just pointing out that you say there is no reason someone should vote Pandain, yet hours earlier you voted Pandain and gave a reason. which i then discarded as bad when i changed my mind 4 hours is a lot of time in this game. I voted for Pandain because I felt wary about Fishball and at the time there was really no other viable candidate, since I thought bumatlarge was out of the race. If I didn't think that I would have gladly voted for bum instead. by viable I meant major, as in the only other candidate with a significant number of votes. I felt your campaign was the weakest and still do. Every candidate gave some information about their role that could be checked EXCEPT you who also ran on the fact that you could immediately but indirectly confirm yourself to town. Later when I called you out on this you said you could maybe do it in 2-3 cycles.I decided then the best thing to do would be to run myself and have since grown increasingly more suspicious of pandain based on the actions of his supporters who have thus far given little to no reason to vote for him 1.No person voted for me again after you did, meaning that couldn't have changed your mind there. 2.You say I'm a viable canidate, yet now say I offer nothing. On October 30 2010 08:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:58 NB wrote:
so far we have 3 people who most likely to be mayor: Pandain, fishball, Dr.h
Panda: i think he would be the most reasonable choice since his first election post looks really clean o.O or as Dr.H said: "transparent"
Fishy: i dont know about this guy... he claimed that he has some sort of mason going on... and i dont trust any group of towny... there is always important information in there being shared and there always could be a spy.... really fishy
Dr.H: lots of people voting for him since he has some great posts on what he would do once he become a mayor. Let me tell you: He has never been a towny b4 in the history of mafia => he is a Veteran mafia and a shitty towny (no offends). Those people who did bandwagon and vote for him could easily be a group of mafia just voting for their leader... Dr.H will be my Last choice what so ever.
for now, i will keep my vote on my self and consider to change it on to the most reasonable person in the end! you really think i could be mafia? do you understand how outrageously fucking stupid I would be to play like this as mafia? not only would i have to consistently out my scumbuddies throughout the course of the game to the entire town but I would have to fake a beneficial blue role that I promised already shows real numerical results that cannot be faked I am tying the noose around my neck to be hanged if I am lying. How can you call me a shitty towny if I've never been a towny and you don't even suspect I'm townie in this game. Hilarious post. Every time he says to lynch him if he's lying just makes me cringe. Because now we're at an impasse where he can just continously say "just wait one more night" while he leads us around bandwagoning people who I think are innocent. On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor. Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me. Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that? *cringes* On October 30 2010 09:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:21 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 09:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:11 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 09:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:There are a few things you didn't respond to ace that I'd like you to revisit. specifically this Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
I find it strange that you bring him up considering you said both him and myself are undeserving of your vote.
So let me turn that around for a bit if I may. If Fishball claims to have a circle of players and that his ability will help him figure out their alignments then why should we vote for bumatlarge. And why would you vote for pandain over fishball? ' I responded to the bolded already. I'm voting for bumatlarge because I don't see any negatives with him. With you and Fishball I do. I've also already explained about Pandain. It just seemed out of place that you would bring up fishballs candidacy as a point against me when you're against him as well, rather than asking why people should vote for me over bumatlarge instead On October 30 2010 09:13 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 09:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 09:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Doc is falling into the same trap that Fishball did, they both think their roles are so important they HAVE to have the protection of mayor. In the process of campaigning they are both way to zealous and overreactive to what people say. I criticized Pandain earlier for not making a strong enough case for himself but after listening to Fish and Doc go back and forth I think I would prefer a slightly lower profile mayor.
Honestly I feel the same way Ace and BrownBear do, I'd love to have one of the people who isn't actively running be the mayor. Why does that make you nervous? I can prove to the entire town that I am town aligned. If I don't do that, simply lynch me. Why would you vote for a low key mayor that isn't offering anything with the role when I am handing the town a blue-confirmed mayor who can coordinate on a plate? Why wouldn't you want that? Because people don't have to believe your going to do what you say? I think you're better off trying to show us from another angle why you need to be Mayor. With you and Fishball both saying you have to be mayor because of your role it's actually killing your chances imo. So what's my plan then, assume for a minute I'm scum. To lie about proving I'm town, get elected, use the 1 lynch, and then die for the lie? Sacrifice myself for a single kill? 1.) That wasn't being used as a point against you. I was talking about you, Fishball and Pandain as the remaining candidates who didn't have my vote. Nothing to do with bumatlarge. 2.) If you're Scum, get Mayor, lynch someone - how do you die? I don't know what roles are in the game and neither does anyone else. The name of the game is INSANE Mafia. Maybe you're scum with a role that can do something and look Pro-Town? I don't know and honestly, even if I did know the roles in the game that doesn't mean I'm going to take you at your word. There have been plenty of games where Scum says they promise to do something, like oh kill themselves and then WALLA! Something else happens, the Scum spin it to show that there is a better idea and the Scummy Martyr goes free. I'm not in the business on playing for promises. I am saying I am 100% able to prove I have a not scummy role and if I am found in any way to be lying, the town can lynch me. You don't have to take me at my word but this is a huge gambit I'm taking with a very small payoff if I am mafia. Would you prefer I simply roleclaim now? Please, can we finally make him stand up to his word? I've called him out so many time's he's contradicted himself, lied, or greatly misled. yet not catching a single lie, just a lot of bullshit to make me look bad. COOL.He has continously played as if scum, leading town by his own hands. He claims to have lynched YM, then sinq is lynched, and he defends YM. I did lynch YM, the night post kinda confirms it. It's not a "claim" it's a fact lol He claims to be able to be 100% confirmed, I dropped this claim and later retracted it jesus christ stop bringing this up. yet now there is no way of knowing whether he is town or not and now he claims he knew he wouldn't be, but he was lying/not telling "for the good of town." I'm sorry, soaking up a POTENTIAL ROLEBLOCKER WHICH MIGHT NOT EVEN EXIST is not a good reason to run on a campaign. Dr. H. that wasn't my reason. I can still confirm my role to people. that's my power. Either you believe I am soaking up roleblocked or I am a mafia that made my role up. Please just tell me I made up my role so I can vote for you as scum in confidence. He has fished, given poor reasoning, and I'm sure I would find more evidence but believe I have found enough in his first 100-200 posts. If anyone really isn't convinced, I will submit more evidence, albeit relunctantly. Let's see: + Show Spoiler +On October 29 2010 08:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
im assuming mayor has bodyguards
mayor should be an experienced player since mafia will try to hit experienced players first. Yes they will. I like and don't like this post at the same time. On one side, he's neglecting a very important and perhaps the most important aspect of being mayor: being protected as long as you have a bodyguard, which is really useful for important blue roles. On the other hand, it is a good point to protect expierenced players, albeit I am obviously cautious since he later ran for mayor. Part of my conspiracy portion of the brain thinks he was just setting up for him claiming, but that cannot be proven one way or the other. Next reading too much into that.On October 29 2010 09:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
don't vote for jcarlsoniv he's inexperienced and mostly inactive, not good
orgolove is bad and shouldn't be mayor either
mayor should be an experienced player so we have an experienced player that is protected. medics should also protect our most experienced/best players (ace, bumatlarge, brownbear, infundibulum, etc.)
i'm voting for bumatlarge since he's the best one running currently
Onoes more conspiracy in mah brain. I agree Jcarl shouldn't be mayor for those reasons, for orgolove he doesn't really give any explanations so that makes me cautious....(but perhaps true, I don't want to be mean :p). Again says we should protect expierenced players. I'm going to note this, he's basically saying perhaps the most important aspect of mayor that should function in this town is in its aspect to help expierenced players. This is true, albeit I'm unsure of whether that should be the most important. It seems logical to me that mafia would shoot an inexpierenced Mafia-revealer(best role ever) vs. an expierenced townie. I'm saying one of the qualifications is that mayor should be experienced, that's it.On October 30 2010 04:16 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:14 kitaman27 wrote:
Hey all, sorry I'm late. Just got off my flight from Liquidvania. You wouldn't believe the lines. People must be dying to get out of there (sorry I couldn't resist.)
I haven't decided who to vote for as Mayor yet, but I do have two requests.
First off, I would like to see an additional person claim from this "secret 6 person circle". If it exists, odds are incredibly likely that a mafia member is one of the members. If that's the case, then the mafia already knows the identities of all six members. So what harm is there to come forth to the town identifying yourself?
Secondly, I would like to hear how the Mayor plans to use their first day lynch. Will it be based on the majority opinion of the town, a suspicious set of posts during the first 48 hours, or a power player you are intimidated by? Do you already have an idea of who you want to use it on? In order for a candidate to receive my vote, I require they address this issue.
Good luck all ^_^ not just an additional person, everyone in the circle should claim. mafia doesn't have incentive to kill them for it so it's all good. NO! BAD! This is a very anti town move. Pms were, and even with 3 of Fishball's member's dying, are one of the greatest things town has right now. Why? Town circle, obviously. Telling everyone to claim just allows mafia to snipe people off, while giving town really no useful info when just one person claiming would have the same result. this is very suscipcious. No it's not. Assuming there is a mafia in a circle (before we knew it was the mafia who got modkilled) then the mafia would know the circle and the town wouldn't. There would be no reason not to tell the town who was in the circle in that case.On October 30 2010 05:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 04:59 annul wrote:
fyi i will reveal my role too when i get elected, dont let drh use this as a point when ive been saying this too all game why are you attacking me? i never said i'm the only person revealing my role, but can you use it to prove that you are a town player? what are you offering aside from that? i'm pretty sure everyone running is gonna roleclaim when they are elected. why bother to try and make me look bad? why not just say "i'm gonna roleclaim too", why even bring me up? First off, annul hardly even attacked you. Quick defense there. Second off, he himself is rolefishing there "what are you offering aside from that." Very poor play in that regards. That's not rolefishing. I was referring to what do you offer ASIDE FROM YOUR ROLE. Reading comprehension, come on Pandain.On October 30 2010 06:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
people in fishballs circle need to claim already
person, yes. People, no. yeah peopleOn October 30 2010 09:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:20 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 08:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Fishball doesn't need the mayor role to scumhunt within his small group whereas my plan is for open coordination, immunity from death would be important. By no means do I think it's a bad idea to vote for Fishball.
Actually, from a sense, I do need the Mayor role to scum hunt "within my small group", especially after I've decided to come out, there is no turning back. It will all make sense when you know my role. Is medic protection not enough? If you are killed then wouldn't that increase suspicion on certain members of the group within the group itself? Do you know the names of other players in the group and if so can you say who they are since they won't claim themselves? Otherwise there is really no reliable way to confirm your town alignment other than a DT check. Fishes for town circle, trying to find it out. Why would town do this, it would only reveal to the mafia a town circle so they can snipe it. Yet Dr. H is trying to get him to reveal the list. Why do you assume its a town circle. Everyone was operating under the assumption that there was 1 mafia in the circle, meaning its a pro-town move to reveal the circle. The fact that the mafia in the circle was later modkilled makes it a much more questionable move.On October 30 2010 09:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:41 Fishball wrote:
As for people bringing up the idea of having the circle come forward, I've put some thought into it.
If the circle remains hidden to the public, the Mafia can try to remain within and get as much intel as possible, while we'll be trying to do the same thing as well. If the circle comes public, the Mafia might as well off these members one by one. Keep in mind, there is a chance that there are no Mafia members in the circle (though very not likely), but regardless of this possibility, Mafia can plant confusion among the remaining members, and mislead the town.
Also, if the circle comes forward and god forbids, gets eliminated, it would defeat the entire purpose.
I'm not exactly against this idea, but I just want everyone else to think it through a bit more and provide more input, possibility a better alternative. At the end, this would not be my decision, but the other players'.
PS. A correction I have to make. I said I've came in contact with 4 other players earlier, this was a mistake. I've only came in contact with 3. The remaining 2 have not contacted me. This does not mean they haven't contacted each other, which I would not know. As far as I see it if Mafia start killing off town aligned members of the circle, they incriminate themselves really in the end. This puts a lot of pressure on mafia as to how they choose their kills and they have to very carefully consider their activity within the circle. Very bad reasoning. Mafia couldn't incriminate themselves since we wouln't know who killed them. Yes, but the circle will have more information than us wouldn't they? It's much more possible a mafia slipped up in the circle considering a player as good as fishball is involved.
In this post Pandain:
1. claims to point out my "many lies" but failed to point out a SINGLE instance where I was lying. Rather he focuses on a point in the game when I was still figuring out what I could do with my role, hadn't considered all the possibilities of the game (such as insanity), and tries to apply it to what is happening now to make me look like I'm contradicting myself.
2. the lies he does point out are not only not lies, they are either qualified statements that he then twists into the truth. take for instance when I recently said "we shouldn't assume mafia ran for mayor or that the position is a good thing for them.", he twists this into meaning "MAFIA DIDN'T RUN FOR MAYOR AND DON'T WANT IT" so he can make my earlier posts look like lies. he does the same thing about my indirect confirmation claims through plague doctors.
3. tries really hard to make me look bad again but just makes himself looks like scum.
Sorry Pandain. Let me requote my general defense of the bullshit pandain and others have been spewing at me:
On November 02 2010 08:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Here is a summary of how I see the situation in the town right now. Since I was not able to confirm myself to jcarlsoniv (either because he lied, because I lied, or because another night role prevented me from using my role) others in the town (mostly Pandain and Coagulation) have been very accusatory for me. This is basically saying that because I was not confirmed to be town that means I am mafia. This is bad logic. This is a very simple situation. When I roleclaimed to the town and told them how my power of confirmation works it should have been equally obvious to everyone that a roleblocker role could stop me from acting and that the person I poke could lie. The latter is a possibility I openly talked about during my campaign, hoping it would make the mafia nervous and less likely to lie in the case that I do poke a mafia player. The first I kept to myself. If the mafia are going to roleblock, it's better they roleblock me than say a plague doctor or a detective. This is something everyone should have known but really did not need to be said. As far as the 100% confirmation issue, it is one that I dropped when I considered the possiblity that my role could be insane. The fact is, if my night action works, it confirms my role 100% to the person I poked in the exact way I've described a million times. I've been very consistent in my explanation of my role and I would argue that the assertion that I may have made up the role in the first place is absurd. I'll get to that later. My night action depends on the night action succeeding. This is a tautology and I'm surprised people think it's something that needed to be set up. A typical sane medic can't protect someone if they are roleblocked but I doubt a medic would describe themselves as not being able to do their action. I have since mostly stopped considering the idea that my role does not work the way it is described. Artanis said mods will not outright lie and that any deception in role PM's would be hinted at. I cannot quote my role PM, as it is cheating, but there is nothing in the role PM that could lead me to believe it is deceptive. There is no chance mechanic (like orgoloves) and the name/description is extremely straightforward. I poke someone and they know I poked them. If they don't know (and I wasn't roleblocked somehow) then it is because they have murrayitis. Artanis will tell me this. This means that if they DIDN'T get poked AND i don't get told they have murrayitis, that either: A. Something stopped me from going forward with the role. A roleblocker or something else. B. The person I poked lied. So I'm just going to leave that at that. That's how my role works. As far as the idea that maybe I'm lying about my role, sure anything is possible but lets look at my post history: In the beginning of the thread Node was saying things that led me to believe that we might have the same role. I tried to fish to see if we did indeed have the same role. Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 06:17 Node wrote:
The downside of secrecy is due to the nature of this particular game it's impossible to reveal any information without putting your head on the line. It's not exactly possible to be subtle -- it's all or nothing. I'm not in a position where I can gently guide town to the correct choices. i have a feeling we have the same role actually am i poking at the truth here? Here I am trying to see if he responds to the term "poke". He doesn't so I try something a bit more obvious. No one except another sticky would get the reference and if Node wasn't the second sticky maybe someone else was. Basically I wanted to confirm that if I was the only sticky or not. If there was a second sticky who responded, I would know for a fact they were town aligned, and I would poke them during the night. Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 06:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 06:20 Node wrote:
It would be a bizarre role to have more than one of, but I hear what you're saying. now i'm thinking we don't have the same role, that puts me in a sticky situation but thats ok This is my more obvious fish. This is very early in the thread. Later kingjames discovers the significance of the name "Sticky" when Glasse tells me it sounds made up. Originally I thought sticky had something to do with that my body was covered in a sticky substance or something that made me immune to Murrayitis or that I was just a stick that poked people. I forgot about the Bill Murray "Sticky" death post. It doesn't make sense that I wouldn't understand the name of a role that I MADE UP in the first place. So lets say I made the role up. That means: 1. I anticipated Artanis' Bill Murray theme 2. Created a fake role which depends on indirectly communicating with other players, something that can be blocked. If I am mafia this requires me to out mafia to survive or sacrifice myself to a distrusting town for basically no reason or benefit 3. Coordinated with Node to fake a fish for the role I made up to appear as (presumably as Godfather) so I could later defend myself a few thousand posts later And that I did all this to become mayor. A role that is NOT immune to rolechecks as it normally is, only has 1 extra vote (a negligible power since afaik mafia started out with 2 extra potential votes in the first place and there are other voting powers in the game. This diminishes the power of the mayor to swing bandwagons on his own) Occams razor. Occams razor. That is my general defense of the assaults that are happening on me right now. I believe this assault is a combination of mafia and misled town. The problem is determining who amongst this faction is town and who is mafia. Knowing Pandain it is quite possible somebody wound him up and let him go off. Speculating on this will be difficult until we actually get a dead mafia. Then alliances in this game will become quite clear. The problem is getting our first lynch right. If vigilantes want to use your hit tonight, hit a player from the opposite "faction" or argumentative side as whoever was lynched unless the lynchee was a mafia. So now I want to say some things about a few bad assumptions players are making: 1. Godfather exists 2. M-rus is a mafia ability 3. There has to be a mafia mayor candidate and it's one of the main ones Watch out for people who continue talking about the godfather as though he is a for sure role in this game. Artanis confirmed it is up in the air. This however we do know, concerning the godfather. 1. If the Godfather exists, he must MAKE UP a role to appear as. If someone appears as a different role than they claimed in a DT check this is a huge paint for godfather as the GF has no way of knowing what roles are or aren't in the game. 2.If anyone else comes up as "Sticky" on a rolecheck besides myself, they're probably the Godfather. No one responded to my Sticky fish early in the game BUT because I believe I was the first person to reveal the name of my role the Godfather would know the name of 1 role in the game and it would be reasonable for him to choose that role. It was Glasse who first asked that I name my role.2. Also we are assuming M-rus is a mafia ability. Node's roleclaim (and the fact that there are 3 deaths in the day) means we can pretty much forget the idea that the "2+1" mafia KP is 2 hits + 1 m-rus infection. I think it is more likely that M-rus is simply RNG'd onto a player or that another players role (not necessarily a mafia one) alludes to the fact that you are an insane/unknown M-rus carrier. If the mafia spread M-Rus, perhaps they choose the person to put it on on day 1 and then thats it? The disease spreads quickly by how people visit eachother in the night, if the mafia could just continue spreading it around I think it would be very overpowered and they'd have half the town dead pretty quickly. 3. The mayor is not very strong in this game. Mafia don't need a mayor and in fact it might be more trouble for them than it's worth. 1 bodyguard, 1 extra vote, and that's really it as far as the mafia is concerned. Mafia aren't too scared of night kills as vig hits don't usually come until the late game and the main advantage of a mafia mayor is that he can't be rolechecked meaning you can give the Godfather role to another player. Consider not only the intense scrutiny that the campaign brought initially (on myself, bum, pandain, and fishball) but the inense scrutiny that I am under now. Scrutiny on other mayoral candidates has since dropped off. I believe that if mafia ran for mayor, it is quite possible it was one of the candidates that didn't do very well in the voting process. The mafia can then push the idea that "one of the main mayoral candidates MUST be mafia" while their initial runs for mayor go unscrutinized and unchecked. This is a possiblity. I do have suspicions that Pandain is mafia due to his poor attacks on me. Lastly I want to say something. Forget about scumtells and all this stuff. When you look at what a player posts, yeah scumtells are all well and good, but any good mafia can point out a million scumtells that townies do and their town bandwagons depend on this. Look at a players goal. What is a player trying to accomplish? Is he arguing with the intent to get information crucial to the town or is he arguing with the intent to make a player look bad? Scum wants to do the latter. They don't want the town to have any information, they don't care. What they do care about is that the town thinks someone else is scum or at the very least that the town doesn't trust the word of an experienced ally. Always think about the goal of the argument as well as the argument itself. Rhetoric is very important.
Factions forming in the town
This is something that is absolutely toxic to our ability to work together as a town to scumhunt. By creating what appears to be alliances, the mafia can make several town players look bad or bus one mafia player to make several town players look bad. If we look at the series of defenses/attacks players have made on eachother a player could conclude that factions are forming within the game. Just remember, it isn't necessarily all mafia on one side and one on the other. Dividing the town, creating factions, and drawing attention away from the facts and the arguments benefits the mafia. These factions are worth looking at when a mafia gets lynched and it becomes apparent who may have been a scumbuddy to that player. That's my thoughts on the situation. I'll do some specific player analysis later. I'll be focusing on the seemingly opposing bandwagons concerning youngminii and Aeres as I feel mafia is behind one of these. I'd like to ask Pandain a question. You said you would/could confirm yourself as townie even if you weren't mayor. You criticize me because i failed to do so. You also haven't confirmed yourself at all something that was part of your campaign promise. It strikes me as a tad bit hypocritical.
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On November 03 2010 05:50 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 05:39 L wrote:On November 03 2010 04:48 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 04:39 L wrote:On November 03 2010 04:25 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote:
But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it.
You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless.
I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role. First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts. Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion. So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos. Way over the top on the defensive, bro. I did check your post history, in the past 30 pages its pretty much all reaction. What chaos am i creating? I stated your role doesn't make sense. I didn't say its your fault. If it isn't you that's holding back info, mafia can probably fuck with you. And that's some kinda crazy wild theory? Sorry, this offensive defense doesn't cut it. Voted for you. Yeah, I was thinking that you might vote and try to start a bandwagon shortly after I posted that. You stated my role doesn't make sense. I begged to differ, other players did as well, and that's when you started to theorize. Not just once, but you came up with many different reasons why I would be lying, all of which are based on roles that exists in your mind alone, as far as we know. That's where the wild theories are. Please remember this, your logic and where it came from, when my role will be revealed (either by death, end of game etc.). If nothing else sticks to you from this game, then let it just be this: You'd rather make up a whole imaginary scenario in your mind, and rely your game-plan on that, rather than give someone the benefit of a doubt. Cube, feel free to read my posts. I made no 'gameplan' based on imaginary stuff. I said your role seems fishy. I asked if you were hiding something. You said no, but that even if you were, you wouldn't tell me anything (lol wut, why bother saying that?). I pressed you again because of how much you were slipping up. You then went batshit crazy. Normally I'd expect a newer town player to react like that, but you've been around the block more than once so you know better. This is the second time you overtly mischaracterize my posts. Last time someone went out of their way to do that it was Ace and he was mafia, so get your shit straight. Additionally this defense has been almost entirely composed of "I don't agree" with no rationale behind it. If other people agree that you're fishy, they can feel free to vote for you. It can't be worse than voting out Aeres to die when the entire argument group is probably town on town rape melee. You do realize that I have no fear of being voted for with less than 4 hours left. There's no way I'd get majority that fast, with this little evidence. I'm just asking you to remember this moment when roles will be revealed. I didn't go crazy, I got angry because these kind of posts are the ones that I stood up against from day one. And the fact that you don't care about the simple coinflip of "is he lying or not" and choose to go based on your own theories (doesn't really matter if they were wild or reasonable). That's what makes me irk. And this whole "he's being super defensive so he must be mafia" is pretty much bull, and very "WIFOM", and pretty much encourages lurking, but oh well.
Its not a simple coinflip of "is he lying or not" its a question of how likely mods were to include a role which makes no sense, and why it wasn't just "you're a doc, maf are told who you are n1". Its also a question regarding how you reacted to it.
"is he lying or not" is going to be a question that we need to ask whenever anyone says anything. Period. The more outlandish the claim, the more we're going to ask the question. In your case, I can't see a mod cooking up that role, so I fully expect that:
1) you're flat out lying
2) you're hiding something because you're worried mafia could exploit a part of your role
3) there's some kind of third party that interacts with your choices.
And no, he's being super defensive isn't bull. Look at the first posts I made. I outlined some possibilities and said it was odd. You're the one that rolled in and vastly exaggerated the amount of suspicion that was on you, then acted scummy like whoa.
The cherry on the cake here is the statement that you aren't worried about getting voted out despite having been hyper-defensive for pages. Either you've got a voting block to pad you via fishball or mafia, or you've got a split personality.
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I voted for him because my vote doesn't really matter anymore. If you'd like, I could vote myself or L, it's pretty pointless.
I'm quite curious if he's village idiot, actually. It would end this game in a funny way, which to me, is better than dying slowly to mafia.
But honestly, his play was hurtful to the town, that's a fact.
Lynching him will discourage lies, that's also a fact.
We have no SMARTER choice, at least in my opinion.
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The basic reason I am voting for Aeres:
1. LAL influenced my decision but is not the only reason.
2. His claim of bodyguard was clearly not designed to soak up hits. It would become apparent he was a liar AS SOON as another bodyguard died. So in order to soak up hits on me another bodyguard would have to die, it would be confirmed that he lied, and then nothing happens. Secondly if he's trying to detract hits from other bodyguards why would he claim he can avoid mafia hits at night? If he's trying to soak up anything, it's MEDICS.
3. He claimed his lie was a great pro-town plan. He doesn't explain what the plan is, of course. Later I ask him if he's trying to soak up mafia hits, he says yes. That is bullshit for the reasons stated before. He has no pro-town plan, he waited for someone else to say how his lie could have been pro-town and then jumps on that. Too bad it's non sensible.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 02 2010 09:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Aeres has a LOT more posts than YoungMinii so I'm going to be selective here. You can look through his entire post history here yourself here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Aeres&gb=dateIf you feel I'm intentionally withholding information, feel free to call me on it. Nothing stands out. Talks about the election and he doesn't really make any points of his own. Nothing strikes me as being very town or very mafia. Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 08:31 Aeres wrote:
How many Bodyguards are assigned to a Mayor upon election, and through what method? Interest in the role of bodyguard before the election is over. Just something to note, since if you are of the opinion that Aeres is mafia this means he could be planning his roleclaim already. Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 09:53 Aeres wrote:On October 30 2010 09:42 Coagulation wrote:+ Show Spoiler [RAGE] +DocH Anyone that doesn't fucking vote for you must be scum? Are you fucking serious ? i voted for Pandain because it was a choice between Him And Fishball at the time (bum withdrew his candidacy before i voted or I would have voted him for my placeholder instead of pandain) I posted many reasons why i chose pandain over fishball MANY Logical reasons. i will repost them for you ****This was before you had decided to run for mayor On October 30 2010 01:55 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 01:44 Fishball wrote:On October 30 2010 00:07 Coagulation wrote:
How about instead of blowing up about imaginary references to your CIRCLE in my post you answer the question that you completely avoided.
why would we want to risk a chance of 7 people possibly being scum manipulating town with mayor when we can go with the much safer odds of only 1 person possibly being scum. I'm at work. I answer what I can given the time that I have, but I have always come back and address the rest. This is not dodging. People who have played with me in previous games will know. I think you meant 6 people, as I said there are only 6 people in this group. Now why would Mafia include 6 of their 9 buddies in this circle? Why 6? Not 3, not 4, but 6? Assume what you say is true, all 6 of us are Mafia, how exactly would we "manipulate" town? What stops the other solo Mayor and his "non-circle" buddies to manipulate town? Different scenario, but the outcome can very well be the same. Everyone can debate about the "truth", but no one can argue about that fact that I did offer information, and I want/need protection. With me being Mayor, doesn't make me a dictator. I still need the help of the town to provide valuable input. I would rather have a mayor that has transparency.. any communications he makes will be public so we can keep an eye on him. Is that not a reasonable reason considering the two choices?? maybe not the greatest reason but I FEEL CONFIDENT we are not getting FUCKED BEHIND OUR BACKS. On October 30 2010 00:26 Coagulation wrote:
We need someone who is good at mafia but terrible at manipulation.
pandain is probably the best candidate under these parameters. he is an extremely organized and tactical scum hunter his analyses skills are good and he has a good level head about what needs to be done.
i have also noticed that he is a terrible lier and his posting style makes his motives extremely transparent. this would make it much easier for us to spot a slip up if he is mafia. and greatly increases the chances that he would fail at getting away with scum moves if it turns out he is a red. Is that not a reasonable reason?? YOU SAID THE SAME THING EARLIER.Now i am sticking with pandain because he is most likely not a red trying to gain control of town based on the fact that he is not campaigning relentlessly. Pandain is more then capable of using what tools he has at his disposal to help coordinate a good town strategy and i doubt he would run for mayor if he thought his role wasnt capable of contributing greatly as mayor.. and I FEEL HE is the most TRUSTWORTHY candidate so far BASED ON HIS ACTIONS IN THIS GAME. I Dont get the same feeling from you when your Threatening "FOS" On anyone that doesnt vote you.. IM NOT VOTING on WHOS PROMISING SOME BULLSHIT IF THEY GET MAYOR (town circle?? where??) IM VOTING ON WHO I TRUST THE MOST IN MY GUT IS THAT REASON ENOUGH? Calm down, man. Tensions are expected to run high in a game based on lies and deception, but you don't need to blow your stack like that. People take you more seriously if you post with a more even-tempered tone. agreed coag u need to chill brah Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 00:39 Aeres wrote:Wow, quite a bit of discussion happened while I was in dreamland. Despite all of the suspicion that's fallen around the Doc, my vote remains with him. I'm also feeling really shitty today, so I'm not really in the mood to do a lot of quote analysis and C/P'ing, but he makes a good case for himself and offers a practical solution that addresses the possibilities of him either being Mafia or spreading Murrayitis with the stick. I personally don't think that Orgolove, one of the Doc's primary opponents, argues his point sufficiently for me to change my vote. I do not feel this because of past actions in Haunted Mafia, so I have no bias in that regard. I am speaking strictly in terms of the events that have transpired in this game, and those actions seem to me like Orgolove relies on word-twisting and subtle attacks to discredit people. There's nothing wrong with that methodology in a game like Mafia; in fact, I would encourage that playstyle. However, I feel that he's a bit too hostile and not convincing enough for my vote to be swayed. + Show Spoiler +Note to Orgolove: In no way do I mean to come across as antagonistic toward you. I simply don't agree with your method of debate thus far; I hope you understand this. =)
Oh, and by the way, at the very beginning of this game, where you said you were gonna run for Mayor and use a spreadsheet, you'll recall that I said that spreadsheet was a reason I wouldn't vote for you because of complications last game. You seem to feel that it was because the data on it pinned me as Mafia. I'd just like to point out that that isn't why I'm against the spreadsheet. (In fact, I don't think it ever did put any solid evidence on me as Mafia... if anything, I myself inadvertently planted the seeds of my demise by correcting your profile description of me, saying it was Joe Pesci, a movie actor in MAFIA films *cough cough*. Stupid move by me, to be honest.)
No, it was because that spreadsheet, despite your best efforts, was riddled with errors and misinformation, which skewed the discussion of clues in the thread. I say this because I want to drive the point home that I disagree with your methodology in terms of this game only; I don't have any weird vendetta against you. =) I'll probably talk more if/when I feel better today. I'm still reading the topic and what transpires here, though, so I definitely won't be out of the loop. decent post explaining his reasoning but doesn't really say too much in terms of original points Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 06:08 Aeres wrote:On October 31 2010 05:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 31 2010 05:50 Glasse wrote:I made a list with what i think people are. + Show Spoiler +
1. DoctorHelvetica
2. Hyperbola
3. Bumatlarge
4. Veldril
5. Pandain
6. Aeres
7. deconduo
8. Coagulation
9. annul
10. infundibulum
11. Amber[LighT]
12. Kenpachi
13. lol1221
14. Nemesis
15. ghrur
16. KtheZ
17. QuickStriker
18. CubEdIn
19. Meapak_Ziphh
20. SiNiquity
21. DCLXVI
22. Divinek
23. Lexpar
24. ShmotZ
25. Orgolove
26. Node
27. youngminii
28. jcarlsoniv
29. BrownBear
30. Infinitestory
31. Masq
32. NB
33. Glasse
34 Misder
35. kingjames01
36. Ace
37. Fishball
38. kitaman27
39. LunarDestiny
your posting is funny and cute but honestly at this point you are shitting up the thread. I'm requesting that you please stop, no one wants to wade through a bunch of your spam and god forbid someone take your current nonsense seriously. I don't think that's fair to accuse Glasse of shitting up the thread when I've done more of it than he has. If anything, blame me. = / On October 31 2010 05:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 31 2010 05:52 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On October 31 2010 05:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:One thing I want to point out: On October 31 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote:
##Elect DoctorHelvetica From voting thread. Kenpachi has not posted once since the game started. Let's keep a closer eye on lurkers than we did in Haunted. I started a list of lurkers but it's as home, if a list isn't posted by 8 or so tonigh when I get home I'll post mine. Another quick reason why to vote for doc, he's already stated his day one lynch would be youngminii who so far has been the scummiest player. I no longer feel youngminii is the scummiest. In fact I would like to hear from every townie who their #1 suspect is of scum, if they have one at all. I would like to hear other peoples opinions. There has been a lot of campaign shitflinging and very little scumhunting of any sort. I don't think the mafia feel very pressured right now. If I had to go with my gut instinct, I'd say either NB or ghrur. I have nothing concrete on either of them, but they feel somehow... strange. Not fishy, that's too cliché... merely strange. Aeres is right, he hella spammed. I don't really like his meek/submissive tone it implies a little bit of implicit guilt. Here comes the big one, I'm gonna deconstruct this post in red. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:12 Aeres wrote:Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there. On October 31 2010 10:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Further news I forgot to put in the night post: Due to budget cuts, we have only managed to purchase one bodyguard for the Mayor. Artanis lied. big assumption thereThere are two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but I am the second one.we know this is a lie.I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak. He talks about his past behavior/thoughts concerning the role of bodyguard which seems strange for a protown liar. He showed some express interest in the workings of the bodyguard role. It seems like he wanted to understand the role a lot better before he faked his roleclaim, a mafia would want to cover all the bases and would probably work harder at it IMO.I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible. It's odd that you're talking about how your role assists you in being bodyguard because it serves the exact opposite purpose you CLAIMED you were trying to achieve with your fake roleclaim.My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights. Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me. Later you say you're trying to draw hits to yourself, because you can protect yourself. However, by saying this the mafia is less likely to hit you than any other bodyguard (you claim DC is one of them and funnily enough it turns out that it seems he's going to die). Why are the mafia going to waste their hits on a bodyguard claiming "you can't hit me?" you're not trying to soak up shit.Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal. I think at this point maybe you should if we are to believe you. It's do or die.Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me!Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand. Oddly enough you didn't seem to consider the fact that you were the only bodyguard and that DC was lying. You immediately went to "artanis is lying and there are 2 bodyguards." There is no reason for a bodyguard to claim for pro-town reasons. Later it turns out that DC didn't claim bodyguard, is going to die, and the real bodyguard died. Whoops. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:16 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them. Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain. Talking about how he can protect me when it's clear that his claim isn't designed to draw hits and that he has no real way of protecting me at all. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 03:07 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 03:00 bumatlarge wrote:
It seems a fairly nifty scum tactic to come out and ask for medic protection fyi. With one medic dead, and another claimed(?), I think it's safe to say we can't cover everyone we want to. Stop coming out with something and expecting to be protected. Your killing us. Congrats on the Queen, Bum! Liked the Lurker better, but meh. As for your point, I agree for the most part. However, I would argue that it might be advantageous to roleclaim if your role allows something similar to what youngminii did to avoid the lynch. There might be strategic value in roleclaiming some other powerful role to waste a KP or lynch. I'm not sure what the balance is between offensive, defensive, and investigative roles might be, though, so it's possible that only a few people fit this bill. A fair bit of WIFOM comes into play here, but it might pan out. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 04:21 infinitestory wrote:On November 01 2010 04:16 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 04:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
i was just thinking "why the fuck would you do that oh my god"
but then I read the rest of your post and that you can survive a short while without medics. I'm not sure it was necessary to claim. If the Mafia thought the only bodyguard was dead, they might waste hits on me, even stack them. Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain. I don't know whether Artanis would give us such a blatant lie, i.e. about the number of bodyguards. If you are, as you claim, a bodyguard, then I think that makes DCXLVI highly suspicious. As has been stated before (and most likely again later), this is INSANE Mafia. We have no idea what Artanis and LSB are capable of throwing at us. I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia. Aeres is really pushing the mistrust of Artanis/LSB when he knows they didn't lie because he is the liar. Hmm. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 08:33 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 08:10 LSB wrote:
BrownBear was minding his own business, he didn’t do anything wrong! He had all the tools he needed to mess up the elections, but as they say. It never pays to be good. BrownBear died for being good. Kids, honesty never pays off. Now THIS has got me very suspicious of the Doctor. What I'm getting from this is that BrownBear tried to manipulate the election results so that the Doc wouldn't win, but he failed, and the Mafia killed him. This makes it seem like the Doc is scum. I mean, it's a good thing for a Mayor to be town, so if BrownBear was killed for doing good, does that mean his efforts to get the town control from Mafia failed because the Doc or another Mafioso caught wind of what was happening? He was my most enthusiastic defender earlier in the thread. This seems pretty far-fetched to me but of course I'm biased. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote:
Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....) He says he had a plan but he doesn't tell us what it was. You've been caught, why would you not tell us? Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:45 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct? In essence, yes. I guess what his plan might have been and he agrees but in retrospect it's weird he didn't just say so in the first place. especially since after I went over his original post claiming bodyguard it's very clear that his claim was not designed to do this at all. Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:52 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 11:48 Ace wrote:
So Aeres admits he lies AFTER I point out that in 3 different scenarios there's no way he could have been telling the truth. This is past policy lynching now, because if DC never said he didn't claim how are we sure Aeres would have "come clean"? He only admitted to the lie after both of us pretty showed he had to be bullshitting. I was AFK, writing a paper for school. As soon as I was finished, I wrote the confession post. On November 01 2010 11:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 01 2010 11:45 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 11:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
So you claimed bodyguard to soak up a hit by using your ability to leave for the night? Is my understanding correct? In essence, yes. That makes sense but it isn't a very smart play. Of course it not being a smart play doesn't mean it isn't something you did. Mafia does benefit from fake claiming bodyguard but there is also a huge risk. They can't be sure that I don't know who my bodyguards are. It does seem like a really strange claim to make, from the perspective of mafia, if they knew there was only one bodyguard. If the other "real" bodyguard roleclaims it would blow up in the face of that mafia. However, since you assumed 666 was the real bodyguard at the time then I suppose you weren't looking forward to a future claim from a bodyguard. By pretending to be bodyguard as mafia, you can draw medics onto you on days "you can't leave town". You could also claim "I'm all out of boat trips I need protection 24/7" and draw medics to you that way. As far as I see it the mafia fake has more to gain from this play than the town fake. That's why I'm voting for you. Understandable. I'm still new to Mafia, and I still have a lot of learning to do concerning the nuances of the game. I tried something, it didn't work, and I'm taking heat for it. I had a feeling this would happen, but I don't particularly regret it, as I wanted to experiment, as I said before. baww i'm new i wanted to experiment it was just a risky plan. you are posting with a lot of guilty rhetoric. If it was truly a failed pro town gambit, there is no real reason to act this way about it imo Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 11:59 Aeres wrote:On November 01 2010 11:57 bumatlarge wrote:
Well, Aeres, now no one feels comfortable leaving you alive. And I'd imagine no one would have felt comfortable leaving you alive if your plan worked.
The only thing holding me back is how very thin a ruse this would be as mafia. What would it even do... Meh, there's not much I can do to defend myself now. I'll leave it up to you guys, although at this point, I agree it's a liability to keep me alive. now he's just giving up. is this a bus? Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 00:41 Aeres wrote:On November 02 2010 00:33 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 01 2010 23:55 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 23:44 Aeres wrote:
##Vote Aeres
There's no redemption for me now. I made a bad move as an inexperienced player, and the town suffered because of it. I'm too much of a liability to keep alive, so I am voting for myself to smooth things out when I'm lynched.
Again, I apologize for making such an audacious play. I clearly should have considered the ramifications of my actions better, and because I was hasty, the town is no better off than before. At best, I learned what not to do in a Mafia game.
I don't expect to survive the day, so I'm taking the chance now to say good luck. I let you guys down, but I'm still rooting for you. I don't even... What? I've said time and time again I'm waiting for you to argue. I'm not 100% certain you're scum, I don't think anyone is, and you have this time to point out why we shouldn't lynch you. It is never, ever good town play to lynch yourself unless there's a special scenario/mechanic that directly helps town to do it. Hold on, let's consider something for a second. Why would aeres do this? It doesn't really make sense to concede so easily. Dr.H has said he thinks Glasse could be Village Idiot, and is trying to get lynched. What if Aeres has a role like this? He knew he would be caught in the lie, and wants to get lynched. What happens when the village idiot does get lynched? And an even more important question: what implications could this have if this is a mafia role? It's not a matter of conceding easily. I simply have no defense for myself. I lied to try and protect the Doc, I failed, and I fucked up the game. If I saw a way out of the mess I put myself in, I'd pursue it, but I just cannot see how I would be able to, especially since I've essentially lost any semblance of trustworthiness. As for the Village Idiot idea, don't you think it's odd for a VI to have a role that encourages survival? Why would that happen? And why would a VI be allowed to vote for himself? That seems like an overpowered role to me. Doesn't really seem to understand VI and I doubt Aeres is the VI anyway. I'm more convinced than ever that Aeres might be scum and considering my reanalysis of youngminii's post it seems that mafia are trying to push the bandwagon off of aeres and onto YM. I'm voting for aeres.
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On November 03 2010 06:12 L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2010 05:50 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 05:39 L wrote:On November 03 2010 04:48 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 04:39 L wrote:On November 03 2010 04:25 CubEdIn wrote:On November 03 2010 03:55 L wrote:On November 03 2010 03:37 CubEdIn wrote:
But this discussion is pointless.
As I said, I can't do much to prove it.
You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.
Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?
You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless.
I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread. Because they don't go to nowhere land. They see if you're bullshitting about your role, and thusfar you've only made my suspicions deeper. We just saw a doctor that had a chance to kill his prot target. If spreading the virus because you are an unsanitary doctor or something is far fetched, I'd imagine killing your target is even more crazy, right? So far you're standing out like a sore thumb. You only reply in the thread when people comment about your roleclaim and your roleclaim itself is messed up. You even say right here that even if you had other abilities you'd actively mislead the town about them, which makes me wonder why you bothered to hide them. If you had something legitimate to hide, it would be as simple as saying "yes, there are other strings attached, but I don't want mafia to know what they are". Your reaction here is hyper defensive too; you admit something looks weird, then you get angry when people talk about it. So yeah, stuff STILL isn't adding up. Its not necessarily your fault, because like I said before its possible that your role can be manipulated by another role. First of all, get your facts straight. I admit I haven't posted a lot, but that's because 80% of this thread is assumptions, maybes, ifs, and general bullshit caused by people like you. As I said, you can have your doubts, you can believe me or not, but you're doing absolutely 0 good by arguing with me. Feel free not to believe me, but getting from that (not just a regular townie) to this (infecting people, trying to mislead the town, etc) is a big step. And I've not only posted when people talk about my role, I posted A LOT of times (do a search, it's quite easy using TL's search function, you can see all my posts in this thread) complaining about people who only rely on maybes, instead of trying to rely on the few things in this game that COULD be facts. Let's say I lie. There's a 50-50% chance that I am, correct? That still leaves 50% that I'm telling the truth. Now are you gonna base your play on a 50% shot of me not lying, or on the very-off-chance that all the story you practically invented over the past two pages is somehow true? Which is more likely? I've been begging for reason since this game started, since we have nothing else to go on, but it seems that some people would do anything to cause chaos, wild theories, and to throw stuff off-track. I'm not saying you're mafia, but you're going through a lot of trouble to cause chaos in my opinion. So let me sum-it-up: I'm being defensive, but I'm just trying to hold this thing on it's rails. I agree with you not believing I'm telling the truth, but don't go so far as to make up stories. Just try to reason instead of derailing. Just assume I'm something else, or red, or whatever, but try and stop there, since you can't possibly know what everyone's role is, and since we don't even have a role list, you're only causing chaos. Way over the top on the defensive, bro. I did check your post history, in the past 30 pages its pretty much all reaction. What chaos am i creating? I stated your role doesn't make sense. I didn't say its your fault. If it isn't you that's holding back info, mafia can probably fuck with you. And that's some kinda crazy wild theory? Sorry, this offensive defense doesn't cut it. Voted for you. Yeah, I was thinking that you might vote and try to start a bandwagon shortly after I posted that. You stated my role doesn't make sense. I begged to differ, other players did as well, and that's when you started to theorize. Not just once, but you came up with many different reasons why I would be lying, all of which are based on roles that exists in your mind alone, as far as we know. That's where the wild theories are. Please remember this, your logic and where it came from, when my role will be revealed (either by death, end of game etc.). If nothing else sticks to you from this game, then let it just be this: You'd rather make up a whole imaginary scenario in your mind, and rely your game-plan on that, rather than give someone the benefit of a doubt. Cube, feel free to read my posts. I made no 'gameplan' based on imaginary stuff. I said your role seems fishy. I asked if you were hiding something. You said no, but that even if you were, you wouldn't tell me anything (lol wut, why bother saying that?). I pressed you again because of how much you were slipping up. You then went batshit crazy. Normally I'd expect a newer town player to react like that, but you've been around the block more than once so you know better. This is the second time you overtly mischaracterize my posts. Last time someone went out of their way to do that it was Ace and he was mafia, so get your shit straight. Additionally this defense has been almost entirely composed of "I don't agree" with no rationale behind it. If other people agree that you're fishy, they can feel free to vote for you. It can't be worse than voting out Aeres to die when the entire argument group is probably town on town rape melee. You do realize that I have no fear of being voted for with less than 4 hours left. There's no way I'd get majority that fast, with this little evidence. I'm just asking you to remember this moment when roles will be revealed. I didn't go crazy, I got angry because these kind of posts are the ones that I stood up against from day one. And the fact that you don't care about the simple coinflip of "is he lying or not" and choose to go based on your own theories (doesn't really matter if they were wild or reasonable). That's what makes me irk. And this whole "he's being super defensive so he must be mafia" is pretty much bull, and very "WIFOM", and pretty much encourages lurking, but oh well. Its not a simple coinflip of "is he lying or not" its a question of how likely mods were to include a role which makes no sense, and why it wasn't just "you're a doc, maf are told who you are n1". Its also a question regarding how you reacted to it. "is he lying or not" is going to be a question that we need to ask whenever anyone says anything. Period. The more outlandish the claim, the more we're going to ask the question. In your case, I can't see a mod cooking up that role, so I fully expect that: 1) you're flat out lying 2) you're hiding something because you're worried mafia could exploit a part of your role 3) there's some kind of third party that interacts with your choices. And no, he's being super defensive isn't bull. Look at the first posts I made. I outlined some possibilities and said it was odd. You're the one that rolled in and vastly exaggerated the amount of suspicion that was on you, then acted scummy like whoa. The cherry on the cake here is the statement that you aren't worried about getting voted out despite having been hyper-defensive for pages. Either you've got a voting block to pad you via fishball or mafia, or you've got a split personality.
No, you just don't seem to understand me. I'm not being defensive because I fear death. Because that would prove my claim and incriminate you (since you went, are still going to great lengths to make your point). I'm being defensive because I don't think you're mafia, and I think your theories are hurting the town, making you a bad player in this case (because I agreed to some of your other posts, so I'm not saying you're a bad player in general).
Here, let me add one to your list:
1) you're flat out lying
2) you're hiding something because you're worried mafia could exploit a part of your role
3) there's some kind of third party that interacts with your choices.
4) you're telling the truth, and i've pretty much insulted the mods for coming up with this "dumb" role
Are you even considering that one? Do you have at least a 20% shadow of a doubt in your mind that you might just be wrong with this one?
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On November 02 2010 09:48 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote:
Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind. I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious. On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post.
I don't see it as martyrdom since he isn't saying "lynch me" or "idc if I'm lynched".
I'm making a case for Aeres as scum rather than just a liar. Do you have any thoughts on it?
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CubEdIn originally roleclaimed only to me. After I told him PMs were illegal and that I had to report him he roleclaimed to the whole town.
Much easier to make up a role to trick one person than it is to make up a role to trick the whole town no? It also seems inconsistent with the idea that "I can roleclaim because mafia know I'm the medic anyway", since why wouldn't he just roleclaim to the town right off the bat?
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Beeeeeeecause I wanted to avoid discussions like the ones I am having with L.
I wanted to role-claim to the one person I was most sure of being blue, and hopefully get a trust circle going.
Also, you're forgetting that you said you could confirm your role and mine in night 1. That would've helped a bit, no?
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EPT
