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Insane Mafia - Page 108

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
November 02 2010 17:31 GMT
#2141
On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.

IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.


His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume.
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
November 02 2010 17:37 GMT
#2142
On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.

IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.


His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume.


Speculating, I'd say that most people in my position would pick doctor and then would have to role-claim (no use in only Mafia knowing of the role, right?). So, in a game with no PMs, the roleclaim would have to be done to everyone, leading to this kind of discussions, causing more chaos.
I was expecting something like this to happen, but there's really not much I can do or say to prove I'm right (other than going to protect whoever you want me to, and getting killed by the mafia, so you'll have your proof in the mod post).

@ Glasse, you don't understand, posts like that would make the Mafia suspect they can't trust everyone in their team.
You could use it to turn mafia against each other, if worded properly, and implying that there's some sort of role that could cause a back-stab kill in the Mafia ranks.

Of course, it's a long shot, but it's better than not doing anything at all.

And what part WASN'T from you?
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
Glasse
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1237 Posts
November 02 2010 17:43 GMT
#2143
On November 03 2010 02:37 CubEdIn wrote:

@ Glasse, you don't understand, posts like that would make the Mafia suspect they can't trust everyone in their team.
You could use it to turn mafia against each other, if worded properly, and implying that there's some sort of role that could cause a back-stab kill in the Mafia ranks.

Of course, it's a long shot, but it's better than not doing anything at all.

And what part WASN'T from you?


I guess im stupid then.

With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red.

What i said was Be careful, DrH is red. Did not mention anything about a sticky situation
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
November 02 2010 17:46 GMT
#2144
I don't have a strong opinion on which possible candidates is/are mafia.

Youngminii - He escaped one lynch for some reasons. DrH also pointed out that his willingness to keep gunning for Aeres makes him less likely to be red.

Aeres - Lied about being the bodyguard role. Pretty much given up after being exposed.

Divinek - Inactive...

I probably choose between Aeres or Divinek. But I'll decide near deadline to see if I can justify my vote better.

Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
November 02 2010 18:00 GMT
#2145
On November 03 2010 02:43 Glasse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2010 02:37 CubEdIn wrote:

@ Glasse, you don't understand, posts like that would make the Mafia suspect they can't trust everyone in their team.
You could use it to turn mafia against each other, if worded properly, and implying that there's some sort of role that could cause a back-stab kill in the Mafia ranks.

Of course, it's a long shot, but it's better than not doing anything at all.

And what part WASN'T from you?


I guess im stupid then.

With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red.

What i said was Be careful, DrH is red. Did not mention anything about a sticky situation


That doesn't make sense. So the only you thing you sent was "Be careful, he's red." ??

it doesn't make any sense out of context without the first sentence
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
November 02 2010 18:01 GMT
#2146
On November 03 2010 03:00 Infundibulum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2010 02:43 Glasse wrote:
On November 03 2010 02:37 CubEdIn wrote:

@ Glasse, you don't understand, posts like that would make the Mafia suspect they can't trust everyone in their team.
You could use it to turn mafia against each other, if worded properly, and implying that there's some sort of role that could cause a back-stab kill in the Mafia ranks.

Of course, it's a long shot, but it's better than not doing anything at all.

And what part WASN'T from you?


I guess im stupid then.

With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red.

What i said was Be careful, DrH is red. Did not mention anything about a sticky situation


That doesn't make sense. So the only you thing you sent was "Be careful, he's red." ??

it doesn't make any sense out of context without the first sentence


Glasse: "What i said was Be careful, DrH is red. Did not mention anything about a sticky situation"
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
Infundibulum
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States2552 Posts
November 02 2010 18:03 GMT
#2147
so what Glasse said and the Day post says differ by a word then.
LoL NA: MothLite == Steam: p0nd
Glasse
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1237 Posts
November 02 2010 18:04 GMT
#2148
On November 03 2010 03:03 Infundibulum wrote:
so what Glasse said and the Day post says differ by a word then.


the actual post is : With DrH as mayor we are in a sticky situation. Be careful, he’s red.

What i said is : Be careful, DrH is red. Did not mention anything about a sticky situation
Glasse
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1237 Posts
November 02 2010 18:08 GMT
#2149
Sorry, to avoid confusion, i did say:
I wish I was mayor. I am the serious cat. Meow, Meow, :3
as well, it was just irrelevant to my point
Fishball
Profile Joined December 2005
Canada4788 Posts
November 02 2010 18:13 GMT
#2150
On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.

IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.


His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume.


I honestly think the mods could have easily overlooked this situation.
Yesterday, I actually had to convince Artanis to make an announcement of an additional circle member, and explain the consequences if we don't.

Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off. You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows. This is assuming his role is legit.
靈魂交響曲
Fishball
Profile Joined December 2005
Canada4788 Posts
November 02 2010 18:16 GMT
#2151
On November 03 2010 02:46 LunarDestiny wrote:
Youngminii - He escaped one lynch for some reasons. DrH also pointed out that his willingness to keep gunning for Aeres makes him less likely to be red.


You left out the part where Infinitestory has pointed out that his willingness to keep gunning for Aeres makes him MORE likely to be red.

Selective reasoning much?
靈魂交響曲
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
November 02 2010 18:21 GMT
#2152
On November 03 2010 02:37 CubEdIn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote:
On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.

IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.


His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume.


Speculating, I'd say that most people in my position would pick doctor and then would have to role-claim (no use in only Mafia knowing of the role, right?). So, in a game with no PMs, the roleclaim would have to be done to everyone, leading to this kind of discussions, causing more chaos.
I was expecting something like this to happen, but there's really not much I can do or say to prove I'm right (other than going to protect whoever you want me to, and getting killed by the mafia, so you'll have your proof in the mod post).

@ Glasse, you don't understand, posts like that would make the Mafia suspect they can't trust everyone in their team.
You could use it to turn mafia against each other, if worded properly, and implying that there's some sort of role that could cause a back-stab kill in the Mafia ranks.

Of course, it's a long shot, but it's better than not doing anything at all.

And what part WASN'T from you?

Its not 'most people' should pick doctor. Its literally never the right choice to pick townie, which makes you role seem fake, which makes believe you're lying or not telling us about some kind of downside to your doctor-role. Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit, or maybe you wouldn't actually be a townie. Maybe you're a third party role. I dunno.

As it is right now, though, that shit doesn't make sense.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
November 02 2010 18:23 GMT
#2153
You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows.


There is no tradeoff. None. What's mafia going to do about you being a doctor? Waste a roleblock to hit you and get rid of a player who would have otherwise been a townie? Its literally 100% +EV to take doctor unless we're being lied to or unless someone else has a complementary role.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Fishball
Profile Joined December 2005
Canada4788 Posts
November 02 2010 18:28 GMT
#2154
On November 03 2010 03:23 L wrote:
Show nested quote +
You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows.


There is no tradeoff. None. What's mafia going to do about you being a doctor? Waste a roleblock to hit you and get rid of a player who would have otherwise been a townie? Its literally 100% +EV to take doctor unless we're being lied to or unless someone else has a complementary role.


We're obviously talking about the same thing on a different level, so this is pointless.
Yes that IS a trade-off, but whether it makes sense or not, is another story. I like how you quoted just that line and that line only, where I first mentioned this could easily be a mod "mistake" if true.
靈魂交響曲
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
November 02 2010 18:34 GMT
#2155
I've been mentioning this could be a mistake the entire time. It is not, however, a tradeoff at all unless there's another hidden piece of the puzzle.

Like the doctor also being a mason, perhaps.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
November 02 2010 18:37 GMT
#2156
But this discussion is pointless.

As I said, I can't do much to prove it.
You can have your doubts, but unless you think that I'm red, this argument is leading nowhere.

Even if I HAD other abilities or there was more to my role, I wouldn't go "oh right, not that you mention it... ", would I? So why do we keep going on these steep slopes to nowhere-land?

You'll see if I was lying or not when I die, it's as simple as that, but unless you think I could hurt the town, the argument is pointless.
I'm not even going to discuss the "Maybe you spread m-rus or some shit" accusation, as a doctor who spreads disease is less logical than anything I said in this thread.
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
November 02 2010 18:37 GMT
#2157
On November 03 2010 03:13 Fishball wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2010 02:31 Infundibulum wrote:
On November 03 2010 02:27 CubEdIn wrote:
So you don't think that the mafia knowing that I'm a doctor is a negative?
Basically, I'm a "goto" target each night, and if I want to live, I need to self-protect myself a lot. Thus making my role almost useless.
I don't see why you think anyone else (other than the mayor/bodyguards, maybe) would make a better target than a 100% confirmed by mods doctor.

IMO, by role-claiming, I just leveled the playing field a bit.


His point is that even though the mafia knowing you're a doctor is a negative, it's still strictly superior to being a straight vanilla townie in pretty much every possible scenario. Therefore, L says, there must be some kind of catch. On the other hand Artanis/LSB could have just screwed up and not realized that one choice was better than the other, but that's not something I'd readily assume.


I honestly think the mods could have easily overlooked this situation.
Yesterday, I actually had to convince Artanis to make an announcement of an additional circle member, and explain the consequences if we don't.

Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off. You either play a dull role, or you get a fun one but the Mafia knows. This is assuming his role is legit.


IMO townie is a lot more fun to be than a blue...
"We have unfinished business, I and he."
Amber[LighT]
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States5078 Posts
November 02 2010 18:39 GMT
#2158
On November 03 2010 03:34 L wrote:
I've been mentioning this could be a mistake the entire time. It is not, however, a tradeoff at all unless there's another hidden piece of the puzzle.

Like the doctor also being a mason, perhaps.


The doctor could be bulletproof, making the knowledge a bit more trivial for mafia. Then a mafia team would need to somehow get the town to lynch the doctor.
"We have unfinished business, I and he."
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
November 02 2010 18:39 GMT
#2159
I missed Infinitestory post on p.98 about Youngminii's posting...

But that post never imply that Youngminii is a scum but as someone who doesn't understand the game.

The biggest benefit of reading that post is it reminded me that Youngminii refuses to reveal anything about his role except saying that his role is definitely blue(crossed out useless information).

Am I missing something?
Fishball
Profile Joined December 2005
Canada4788 Posts
November 02 2010 18:43 GMT
#2160
On November 03 2010 03:13 Fishball wrote:
Also, the way I see it, his role is a heavy trade-off.

On November 03 2010 03:23 L wrote:
There is no tradeoff. None.

On November 03 2010 03:28 Fishball wrote:
Yes that IS a trade-off, but whether it makes sense or not, is another story.

On November 03 2010 03:34 L wrote:
It is not, however, a tradeoff at all unless there's another hidden piece of the puzzle.


Ohhh I've seen this before.
I'm just going to take my own advice.

On November 03 2010 03:28 Fishball wrote:
We're obviously talking about the same thing on a different level, so this is pointless.


靈魂交響曲
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