EPTThe Truth About Diamond League - Page 55
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
That's what we're asking. The only people that can possibly demonstrate superior game knowledge due to rank are already known names, so they don't need to preface posts by saying "I'm 2400 Z." Iccup had a better system for distinguishing skill differences so that people weren't confused into thinking that they're better than they are. If you are 1900-2000, in all likelihood you are still not close to Kiwikaki or Nony's 2100~. You are still D+, they are still B-B+. So stop focusing on the numbers. This seems harsh to many of you who probably realize it, but there's still a lot of people that think they're hot shit because they're 1800 #17 in Tau Epsilon Fuckslot and they post like it. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On October 31 2010 03:08 KevinIX wrote: According to SC2 ranks, Diamond is around 8% of the total players and Bronze around 40%. According to Blizzard at Bliz Con, there is 20% of the population in each league period. 20% bronze 20% silver 20% gold 20% platinum 20% Diamond As close to exact split as possible. So basically... diamond = top 20% of players. Now where to draw the line for D- to A+... I dunno. | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
I was a high D+ Protoss in BW and now I am a 1750 Diamond Protoss in SC2 my RTS game sense, mechanics and strategical logic have vastly improved over the last year and a half where i have averaged played SC/SC2 about 2-3 hours a day. but I am a noob. a HUGEEEEE noob. I would never be so bold as to think of myself as not a noob because I recognize that despite the fact I have put in a lot of time, I am still not that great. I think everyone should realize that the significance of humility and self criticism in TL forums. Let me just throw this out there, when I lose games its not because of imbalance or because I got "outplayed" it is because I am not good enough and until I have the hands of Bisu, the strategy of Jaedong and the will to win of Flash, I will always be a noob. That is cool with me because I play RTS to use my mind to play video games instead of HUR-DURing around Halo or WoW. Remember everyone who doesn't play SC2 professionally or at the least religiously, you are a noob and that is totally acceptable  p.s. if you didn't play BW, don't guesstimate your ICCUP rank. that is demeaning to people who actually devoted time and energy to learning the most complex RTS to date (complex because of the all of the 11 years of complexity/innovation you have to understand to even get to D+) | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:20 Garmer wrote: i think it's more like this: Diamond/ICCUP 250=D- 500=D 750=D+ 1000=C- 1250=C 1500=C+ 1750=B- 2000=B 2250=B+ 2500=A- 2750=A 3000=A+ so every 3k points, the difference between a D- and D will be 250, 6k points, will be 500 ecc... pratically make the maximum point divided by 12 and you are done... Might be too generous. Most people's mechanics are just so atrociously bad compared to the average d+ bw player. | ||
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Channel56k
United States413 Posts
What makes the difference between all these players and their levels is the same thing that makes the difference between 1st and 2nd at the GSL and thats mechanics, creativity, and self control under pressure. There are plenty of gold players who know BOs just fine, in an out. Its their mechanics that keeps them in gold and yours that makes you a high diamond player. | ||
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
On October 31 2010 05:13 Drowsy wrote: Might be too generous. Most people's mechanics are just so atrociously bad compared to the average d+ bw player. totally agreed! I think a lot of people making this graphs don't actually remember how good D+ players were. You're talking about players with 150-180 apm who were actually good at macro. The skill levels were very different in BW. Like getting from D to D+ took most people months to do and getting from D to C- took most people almost a year. | ||
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liaf
Norway318 Posts
On October 31 2010 04:20 Garmer wrote: i think it's more like this: Diamond/ICCUP 250=D- 500=D 750=D+ 1000=C- 1250=C 1500=C+ 1750=B- 2000=B 2250=B+ 2500=A- 2750=A 3000=A+ so every 3k points, the difference between a D- and D will be 250, 6k points, will be 500 ecc... pratically make the maximum point divided by 12 and you are done... I'm 1500 points and I'm definitely not a C+. I'm like barely D+ | ||
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Xtar
79 Posts
As for translating SC2 to iccup ranks. That's extremely silly because most skills needed in SC2 don't translate at all to SC BW. If you are a top diamond player in SC2 with no experience in SC BW, you might not be much better than CPU rank. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2939 Posts
Never got higher than C (or maybe C-) in BW. | ||
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
the thing is ICCUP ranks from 2009-2010 are based on skill levels of players using strategies that were developed over 11 years! This is a critical point to consider because a D+/C-/C players had to not only master mechanics but also understand a WIDE variety of strategies that were considerably more refined than SC2 strategies. For example, I remember in BW when I was learning PvZ at a mid D level, I had to learn how to react to very fine nuisances in Z's build order in terms of creating my sim city with my nexus, forge, cannons, and gateway. Even at this low level, such FINE timings were absolutely critical. Additionally, the leaps in skill grew smaller as you went up in ranks. The difference between a D+ C was considerably larger than the gap between C to B-, etc. It was definitely not a linear skill graph. So these are several important points to remember. In all, I think its important to realize that comparing SCBW to SC2 skill levels is incredibly impractical. If you want to know how you'll do in BW then download it, hop on ICCUP and play. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On October 31 2010 05:22 MagnusHyperion wrote: totally agreed! I think a lot of people making this graphs don't actually remember how good D+ players were. You're talking about players with 150-180 apm who were actually good at macro. The skill levels were very different in BW. Like getting from D to D+ took most people months to do and getting from D to C- took most people almost a year. Yeah, I remember it took me an entire summer of playing 10-15 games/day to go from D to C-/low C. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On October 31 2010 05:25 Xtar wrote: As for translating SC2 to iccup ranks. That's extremely silly because most skills needed in SC2 don't translate at all to SC BW. If you are a top diamond player in SC2 with no experience in SC BW, you might not be much better than CPU rank. i´d rephrase it the other way round: lots of things which were vital mechanics in bw are obsolete in sc2 or any modern rts with a modern interface and pathfinding. u also should keep in mind that bw possesses a huge degree of strategical perfection. no other rts is nearly as mapped out as bw is. every1 was using the bo´s the korean progamers brought up after tenthousands of hours of practice over the course of over half a decade. there was virtually no room for creativity left in bw. all this had the effect that a players strength in bw was constituted by an abnormally big percentage by his mechanics and not his strategical abilities. u had to know and play according to many subtleties, but these sublteties were already figured out by ppl before u. this made the game very demanding in terms of what u had to know and to be able to perform mechanically to compete. so yes, most 1.8k players on the current sc2 ladder would barely be D+ on iccup, but this doesnt mean they are bad players or even that they are worse than the average ex-bw d+ player. | ||
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xune
2 Posts
Stop making stupid tables comparing sc2 ratings to iccup ranks. You CAN'T compare them. | ||
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Shockk
Germany2269 Posts
But: People really overdo it with being humble in this thread. "I'm 2.200 diamond and a total scrub." "I'm 2.300 diamond and LOL I'm a noob." "I'm 2.400 diamond and I play SC2 with a joystick." | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
the point you're trying to make is related to how good someone is at the game. please do not use the word understanding. understanding something does not imply being good at it. | ||
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
On October 31 2010 08:02 JoeSchmoe wrote: your main mistake is using rankings to try quantify someone's understanding of the game. there is a huge difference between understanding the game and being able to execute effectively. do you think all blizzard developers are high diamond players? of course not, in fact most probably don't play the game well. Their job and passion is focused on creating the game itself but does that mean they don't understand their own games? obviously not. they're the ones implemented the gameplay algorithms, polished the mechanics, tested the balance, etc. the point you're trying to make is related to how good someone is at the game. please do not use the word understanding. understanding something does not imply being good at it. I disagree with this. Too many bronze players think they "understand the game" because they read in the strategy guide that collosus counters marines! Wow! Now the only thing holding him back from competing in the gsl is APM! To understand the game you need to either play the game at a high level or watch lots of high level replays. There are so many intricacies in each match up that you can only understand by actually playing it and experience it. | ||
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