The Truth About Diamond League - Page 53

McMonty

Canada379 Posts

October 08 2010 22:22 GMT

#1041

ya bonus pool is required for this relationship. You should quote points minus bonus pool as seen on SC@ ranks to give better idea.

Ao_Jun

Denmark396 Posts

October 08 2010 22:26 GMT

#1042

On October 09 2010 07:08 Lightspeed wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 09 2010 06:50 Ao_Jun wrote:

On October 09 2010 06:33 Lightspeed wrote:

On October 09 2010 01:21 dinmsab wrote:

On October 09 2010 01:07 Lightspeed wrote:
The truth about diamond, imho, is that the majority of diamond players are really not much better than a lot of silver, gold and plat players. I believe that the SC2 skill curve starts really low in bronze, climbs very steep to high bronze/low silver, then climbs relatively slowly to about 3-400 bonus pool adjusted diamond and then starts to climb very steeply again to high diamond. I also guess that if the MMR cutoff points continued at the same interval after diamond, we would have 3 or 4 more division ranks by now.

I dare say that the line between low-diamond and high plat has always been kinda blurry, although if you're claiming that people in mid diamond are "not much better" than a silver/gold player then your just making shit up. Its true that low-diamond players are not exactly good, but they're decent enough in the macro department to get where they are. Silver/Gold players still struggle to pull off a decent BO.

Exactly lack of knowledge of a proper BO is probably all that's holding these players back, mechanically they should all be able to get to current low diamond. 50 APM and some very limited knowledge of counters is probably all that's need to get into high plat (I would know

)

92,5% of diamond players are below 300 bonus pool adjusted points (granted, I don't know how much bonus pool these players have saved up, only Blizzard knows), 5% are between 300 and 500 adjusted, 1.7% are between 500 and 700, 0.6% are between 700 and 900 and only 0.2% are between 900 and 1300

For the total player base, roughly 40% are in bronze, 20% each in silver and gold, 13% in plat and 7% in diamond. Only 0.5% of total player base are above 300 bonus pool adjusted diamond level and probably reasonably capable at the game. Only within the top 0.05% of the total player base you find players that regularly compete and succeed in bigger tournaments.

My point is, and I hope the numbers somewhat support this, that the difference between a silver and a low diamond player is less, much less in skill (current and ceiling) and probably also MMR than between a low dia and a top diamond player. Nearly every player on the ladder could reasonably attain current high plat/low diamond playing level/skill in a short amount of time, but only very few will be able to climb above that. There's really just a bunch of scrubs on the ladder, me included, and very few outstanding players.

So, i've been out of the loop for a few weeks..
How do you calculate Bonus Pool adjusted rating?

Bonus pool accumulates at a constant rate since release (I think something around 15 points per day). You can select to display Points - Currently accumulated bonus pool at sc2ranks.com

Ok, i get that - so NTT having 725 point (without bonus pool) being placed at #200 europe, and NTT having 1750 with the bonus being placed at #200 europe is different how?

Lightspeed

130 Posts

October 08 2010 22:48 GMT

#1043

On October 09 2010 07:26 Ao_Jun wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 09 2010 07:08 Lightspeed wrote:

On October 09 2010 06:50 Ao_Jun wrote:

On October 09 2010 06:33 Lightspeed wrote:

On October 09 2010 01:21 dinmsab wrote:

So, i've been out of the loop for a few weeks..
How do you calculate Bonus Pool adjusted rating?

Bonus pool accumulates at a constant rate since release (I think something around 15 points per day). You can select to display Points - Currently accumulated bonus pool at sc2ranks.com

Ok, i get that - so NTT having 725 point (without bonus pool) being placed at #200 europe, and NTT having 1750 with the bonus being placed at #200 europe is different how?

NTT with 725 adjusted points has triple the points of 250 adjusted points RandomDiamond567
NTT with 1750 inflated points has only one and a half times the points of 1250 inflated points RandomDiamond567
I think the bonus pool screws with point difference perception, doesn't change anything about relative rank ofc

SchAmToo

United States1141 Posts

October 11 2010 06:51 GMT

#1044

Can't they just go back to ELO ranking...

101toss

3232 Posts

October 19 2010 02:36 GMT

#1045

When I was in silver (plat now), I beat my friend (1400, diamond ofc, zerg) with mass BC's. This means 1 of 2 things:
1. Silver players aren't that bad
2. Diamond players aren't that good

The answer I'd like to believe is number two.

And btw, remember how Day[9] was a nooby "platinum" player?

kidcrash89

198 Posts

October 19 2010 02:50 GMT

#1046

<1200 Diamond is pretty much a joke as far as I've seen. Very little difference between the players I played when I was in Platinum, lots don't know how to progress past the first battle or failed harass. I would love to see invite only threads, I just wish they'd be open for the public to read.

Impervious

Canada4222 Posts

October 19 2010 03:05 GMT

#1047

I just played my frst game post-patch earlier today. It was a TvT on Metalopolis. My opponent was ~1200 pts (I'm at like 400 with like 700 pts in my bonus pool lol). I fucking owned him. It wasn't even close.

I did a 1rax 1 fact Marauder/Hellion poke while expanding into 3rax 2 fact 1port MMM + tank + hellion(I love these guys vs marines) + viking + 2 armories and an ebay upgrading vs his 1/1/1 marine/tank/viking into expand into mass marine/tank/viking play. He seemed pretty manner, but left without a GG after I knocked him down to 11 scvs with harassment and was able to crush the majority of his army at the same time. And he was considered "strongly favored".....

And I'd consider myself pretty terrible..... Blizz definitely needs to do something better with the system..... The points really seem to mean nothing at all (although, at the highest levels, it's impressive to see how high they can get).

Selkie

United States530 Posts

October 20 2010 07:34 GMT

#1048

It's true, I think you're even giving mid Diamond level players too much credit. (Myself being one)

I have no real build orders. I just build stuff, try to expand when needed, decide to tech up a bit now and then, but no concrete I WILL BUILD THIS THEN. (except the standard Terran opening)

My macro is very shakey, so often I find myself with a minor build up of minerals. (usually late game to be fair)

My micro consists of 1-A for large battles, although I can do some slightly neater stuff with small numbers of units. (except against banelings, then my APM is close to 200 apparently as I run away in terror/try to kite)

My APM is low- I got into Diamond with an average of 35, now closer to 50 as I've simply been getting faster. (I'm aware that APM means almost nothing)

I get supply blocked all the time- rare is the game that I'm not. (Working on that currently)

In short, I have no idea how I'm in Diamond, let alone 1200 in it, and rising.

My cheese defense is great however. It is difficult to cheese me, only been cheesed once in the past month or so (Shakuras, I was not expecting a bunker rush on a 4 player map)

I don't know the iCCUP at all, but I'd probably be a D player in it, at best. And I'm at what people consider "decent" Diamond.

In short: Pro league will really be where the good players end up.

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

October 20 2010 07:40 GMT

#1049

This thread is a troll to all who played brood war.

seRapH

United States9808 Posts

October 21 2010 19:02 GMT

#1050

On October 20 2010 16:40 MYM.Testie wrote:
This thread is a troll to all who played brood war.

i think its just outdated. and iccup rankings are fucked up now too =\

hacker

Canada26 Posts

October 21 2010 19:16 GMT

#1051

On October 19 2010 11:36 101toss wrote:
When I was in silver (plat now), I beat my friend (1400, diamond ofc, zerg) with mass BC's. This means 1 of 2 things:
1. Silver players aren't that bad
2. Diamond players aren't that good

The answer I'd like to believe is number two.

And btw, remember how Day[9] was a nooby "platinum" player?

Whenever I play my silver friends I let them win lol (I'm around 1300-1400 diamond).
It's sort of too easy to beat them, so I try to find ridiculous ways to win, which never end up working out as planned.

KevinIX

United States2472 Posts

October 21 2010 19:56 GMT

#1052

Meh. There's not much use trying to compare SC2 ladder to iccup. Just consider anyone on the Top 200 as good, and anyone not on there as bad.

VonLego

United States519 Posts

October 21 2010 20:02 GMT

#1053

I've simply thought of anyone being decently into the four digits as someone who knows how to play the game, and anyone closer to 1800+ as pretty dang good.

Durp

Canada3117 Posts

October 21 2010 20:03 GMT

#1054

I couldn't agree more, though in practice it seems like more often than not "high rank" diamond zergs have a better understanding of the game, since prepatch the only strat to legitimately ride to diamond was 6pooling.

I'd love to see TL give some type of poster ranking system, so that people who come to threads hoping to see someone like qxc giving advice can find their posts easier. Couldn't agree more with his perception, I hate scanning through the 15 posts that are complete nonsense looking for the one that gives sound advice.

I am currently sitting in Gold league due to lack of laddering, but having been in platinum and then diamond in the beta, I truly believe I have a better understanding than most players I come across posting here, and against most diamond league players I practice against.
Example?
I can't count the number of "high level ~1300 Diamond" players telling me that 4gate is a more viable opening than 2gate robo for Protoss. Why I ask, hoping for some logical reasoning? (though I already know they're full of shit)
Answer: Because you will win more games.

PowerDes

United States520 Posts

October 21 2010 20:05 GMT

#1055

You can't base points on BW ratings because points can be accumulated simply by massing games.

Also take note SC II was dumbed down. (mineral rally, 255 unit selections, can select multiple buildings, etc.)

optical630

United Kingdom768 Posts

October 21 2010 20:06 GMT

#1056

its all bullshit, im rank 10 in my division, 1350 points and i dont think im ANYWHERE NEAR a good player. i still make mistakes and whatnot, i still struggle with zerg vs 4 gate. top diamond doesnt make people super human, it just makes them a gold league korean

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/949142/1/optical/ for proof of my rank and stuff

BeMannerDuPenner

Germany5638 Posts

October 21 2010 20:12 GMT

#1057

On October 22 2010 05:06 optical630 wrote:
its all bullshit, im rank 10 in my division, 1350 points and i dont think im ANYWHERE NEAR a good player. i still make mistakes and whatnot, i still struggle with zerg vs 4 gate. top diamond doesnt make people super human, it just makes them a gold league korean

http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/949142/1/optical/ for proof of my rank and stuff

jfyi 1300 is considered fairly low now and you wouldnt even be top 50 in my division with it

thehitman

1105 Posts

October 21 2010 20:17 GMT

#1058

I completely agree on your post.

I don't think your comparison between IcCup ranks is true and its way too biased, but I'd say that low level Diamond players (500 points) are C to C+

With B- to B+ being the ones from 501 to 1200 and all above being A-

meathook

1289 Posts

October 21 2010 20:19 GMT

#1059

On October 22 2010 04:02 seRapH wrote:

Show nested quote +

i think its just outdated. and iccup rankings are fucked up now too =\

All the players who didn't play BW before SC2 are D- level just the same.

Most of the posts in here just make you lol and facepalm..

Adaptation

Canada427 Posts

October 21 2010 20:26 GMT

#1060

1.8k player Zerg here - Im just gonna say that at this point(21 october 2010), anything under 1.5k is usually really nothing impressive, except for the occasional player who is moving up(and that player will get 1.5k+ for sure). From 1.5k to 1.9k you have somewhat decent player, but nothing special again. They can macro well and play passed the first battle, but they have some tactical and micro flaws(i consider myself in that category). Once your passed 2k, you start to see the good players.

In terms of ICCup, theres is no way that anything under 2k is A- and over. Iccup is hard to compare, but under 2K is like B- or so - that is considering how good brood war players are compared to sc2 players(less experience for a lot of players)

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