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On October 31 2010 05:22 MagnusHyperion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:13 Drowsy wrote:On October 31 2010 04:20 Garmer wrote:
i think it's more like this:
Diamond/ICCUP
250=D-
500=D
750=D+
1000=C-
1250=C
1500=C+
1750=B-
2000=B
2250=B+
2500=A-
2750=A
3000=A+
so every 3k points, the difference between a D- and D will be 250, 6k points, will be 500 ecc...
pratically make the maximum point divided by 12 and you are done... Might be too generous. Most people's mechanics are just so atrociously bad compared to the average d+ bw player. totally agreed! I think a lot of people making this graphs don't actually remember how good D+ players were. You're talking about players with 150-180 apm who were actually good at macro. The skill levels were very different in BW. Like getting from D to D+ took most people months to do and getting from D to C- took most people almost a year.
I was C- with 100-120 APM on Korean time after a few months. It definitely doesn't require you to be good, just have some moderately well polished build orders and transitions.
By comparison I feel I'm playing better SC2 at 1850 in terms of general gamesense/timings, etc. But due to point inflation and a somewhat different game (durr) it's pretty impossible to peg BW to SC2 at any given point. I wouldn't consider myself 'good', at least.
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On October 31 2010 05:22 MagnusHyperion wrote:
totally agreed! I think a lot of people making this graphs don't actually remember how good D+ players were. You're talking about players with 150-180 apm who were actually good at macro. The skill levels were very different in BW. Like getting from D to D+ took most people months to do and getting from D to C- took most people almost a year.
This is just wrong.
When I started to play BW, I went from D- ("1" point \o/; it's obvious as I never played a single game of BW before ^^) to C in less than 6 months with zergs. I already almost played SC2 as much as BW and I'm 1900...
And unless I spammed like a madman I had like 140 apm (180-200 with spam).
But I wasn't playing during korean primetime
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On October 31 2010 08:15 leveller wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 08:02 JoeSchmoe wrote:
your main mistake is using rankings to try quantify someone's understanding of the game. there is a huge difference between understanding the game and being able to execute effectively. do you think all blizzard developers are high diamond players? of course not, in fact most probably don't play the game well. Their job and passion is focused on creating the game itself but does that mean they don't understand their own games? obviously not. they're the ones implemented the gameplay algorithms, polished the mechanics, tested the balance, etc.
the point you're trying to make is related to how good someone is at the game. please do not use the word understanding. understanding something does not imply being good at it. I disagree with this. Too many bronze players think they "understand the game" because they read in the strategy guide that collosus counters marines! Wow! Now the only thing holding him back from competing in the gsl is APM! To understand the game you need to either play the game at a high level or watch lots of high level replays. There are so many intricacies in each match up that you can only understand by actually playing it and experience it.
of course there are people who think they understand the game when they really don't. but does understanding the game make you a good player? no. often during a game you know you should be doing this and doing that but you just can't do all those things at once because you're not used to it or fast enough. Back to my original example, do the SC2 developers have a high understanding of their own game? Probably yes unless you're suggesting they just strung together random units and hope it all works. But are they good at the game? probably not.
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F player / copper player - I can counter people's rushes by making cannons all around my base!
LOL!!!
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On October 31 2010 05:21 konicki wrote:
There are plenty of gold players who know BOs just fine, in an out. Its their mechanics that keeps them in gold and yours that makes you a high diamond player.
Exactly.
I think mechanics is a really big factor.
I practically never saw even a 100 apm player in platinum and lower. There are some smart players who know the stuff, but have like 35 apm. Pretty hard to be high diamond with that no matter what you know. Maybe with terran;)
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Thank you so much, Saracen, for this post. I train up friends to diamond league and advise them like this. You're in silver league b/c here's what gold league players can do.
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To be honest I think the original list could be updated these days as everyone's getting more and more points. :p 1200 rating is definitely not B level anymore.
I still highly endorse this thread though like in my earlier post somewhere in here.
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I have been lurking TL since 2004, and I can probably play BW and SC2 blind and probably get to high diamond in a week. Reading, watching, playing bw so much, I can practically breathe it.
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I found the best way to go all diamond quickly and elevate your game tactics rapidly. If you're
interested and you want to save time: diamondleaguenow.com
User was banned for this post.
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On August 25 2010 02:19 Saracen wrote:
Bronze: I know what some of the units do.
Silver: I know what a build order is.
Gold: I have a build order for most of the matchups.
Platinum (not stuck-in-platinum-because-stupid-system-won't-promote-me but actual platinum): I have played through my build order more than twenty times.
Diamond: Anything above that.
To be completley honest: Until lower diamond i only did one thing:Muta build with an expansion.
And until today i never play a straight build order in sense of "drone 21 needs to be the second gas" or anything like that in order to follow a strict plan i have in mind.
so i dont know, if you can cut through leagues by this description.
yes i realize that the diamond level differs from "fast but small minded player" (no offense, as a foreigner i simply have no better words) to pro-gamers.
and i would go and say that:"bronce is that much less skill,speed and training compared to diamond, than lower diamond is compared to 2k+ or 2.5k+ diamond"
while not doing much 1on1 and having 800 games with like 55 teams, i cant even tell you all the exact damage values of all units and it seems like i never have had learned enough to call my self a pro gamer an any sense.
i see your point. most voices in the forums are starting with "well i am a diamond player around ... points". but thats the part, where i swtich to the next post - most of the times.it somewhat bores me. feedback from players in gold league, as well as high end diamond - where you can read issues especially from completly other viewpoints are much more interessting than medi-diamond players.
btw: it is not like: most of the players are medium diamond.
its more like: the fan base that not only plays the game, but also wants to play professional and efficient, is the lower diamond range.
some of my friends are on silver and gold and they really dont care about TL, forums, news or anything what we are looking forward to. they just play and sometimes ask for advice.
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the listing should be updated i think.
for now i think 1800 or 1900 can only be B+ (maybe even more points like 2000)
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On November 09 2010 00:10 s1eger wrote:
the listing should be updated i think.
for now i think 1800 or 1900 can only be B+ (maybe even more points like 2000)
Or maybe we should stop trying to compare it to something not fit comparing with. By this time, we should be able to accept that 1800 Diamond is - just that - 1800 diamond.
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On October 31 2010 17:27 Siwa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2010 05:21 konicki wrote:
There are plenty of gold players who know BOs just fine, in an out. Its their mechanics that keeps them in gold and yours that makes you a high diamond player. Exactly. I think mechanics is a really big factor. I practically never saw even a 100 apm player in platinum and lower. There are some smart players who know the stuff, but have like 35 apm. Pretty hard to be high diamond with that no matter what you know. Maybe with terran;)
im in platinum with 100apm but thats usually jsut spam. i believe i sohuld be in diamond since i picked up my comfort zone and am now rolling over plats
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The site ArenaJunkies for WorldofWarcraft has a system for this where you can only post in certain forums, in this case, possibly the strategy forum. This allows views to everyone but posting privileges to only those with 2400+ rating on the WoW arena ladder. Not sure if that would be an ideal number because ratings have inflated over ample time in that game. Just an idea for the future, perhaps.
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My estimates now:
D- to D = 0 to 1500 diamond
D to D+ = 1500 to 2k diamond
D+ to C- = 2-2.2k diamond
After that its a mix really,because it depends on what you are looking for to rank someone higher, because id estimate some really high ranked (2.8k+ players) as no better than C+ but lots of B levels around 2500 only
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There's almost no difference between a 1200 plat and a 1200 diamond player, when I play them. It's all over the board. I've faced a person in gold with 300 apm, who absolutely destroyed me. I've faced people who were 1400 diamond and curbstomped them so hard, their children's children felt it. I can run into a 1400 diamond player who is amazing.
The only way to rank yourself is to get a good win rate with many games, I believe. An ELO system would be nice, too. But the points system means nothing, just like the OP said. Nobody should be running around here yelling about how good they are because their league logo has more points under it than another persons league logo.
And I agree with what qxc said in that interview, too. I've realized that far too many people are playing sc2 on paper, somehow. People need to actually play the game, before trying to refute something that someone says.
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On November 29 2010 11:42 pirates wrote:
The site ArenaJunkies for WorldofWarcraft has a system for this where you can only post in certain forums, in this case, possibly the strategy forum. This allows views to everyone but posting privileges to only those with 2400+ rating on the WoW arena ladder. Not sure if that would be an ideal number because ratings have inflated over ample time in that game. Just an idea for the future, perhaps.
Won't work for SC2 due to point inflation. The boundary would constantly have to change to maintain the purpose of it.
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I was C in Broodwar
2250 in SC2
2600+ is probly B? maybe 2800?
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On November 29 2010 11:56 BrTarolg wrote:
My estimates now:
D- to D = 0 to 1500 diamond
D to D+ = 1500 to 2k diamond
D+ to C- = 2-2.2k diamond
After that its a mix really,because it depends on what you are looking for to rank someone higher, because id estimate some really high ranked (2.8k+ players) as no better than C+ but lots of B levels around 2500 only
this.
because maybe that B ranked player is only 2500 and is getting rolled by 4gate (who just happens to be 2800), you never really know... although your estimates may be off... because the best way to estimate is to just add on bonus pool from the OP... so if there was 100 bonus pool then, and 1700 now, just add 1700 to the OP's estimates and there you go.
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EPT
