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On October 30 2010 14:52 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:41 infinitestory wrote:On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote:
Fine. I'll stop bringing in your confirmed flaws into this equation.
But lets say EVERYTHING you said is 100% true. Basically, your ability is thus:
"Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor? This is a good point. I'd much rather put bum as mayor, because circle leader/manager is more worthy of nightkill invincibility. Drop all the personal attacks. They're distracting us from the issues at hand. Once again, circle leader, secret PMs mafia GF doesn't sound good to me. :/ The whole Dr. H thing has caused so much havoc and spam that it makes me suspect him as Mafia simply distracting us by causing havoc. >_>
Am I the one causing havoc or are the people who are coming up with extreme WIFOM situations that necessitate deception of me by Artanis and intense metagaming causing this shitstorm?
Come on, that's a really weak FoS on me.
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On October 30 2010 14:44 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:42 kingjames01 wrote:On October 30 2010 14:28 orgolove wrote:On October 30 2010 14:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 14:16 orgolove wrote:
lol, awesome find haha. Now we have second evidence of DoctorHelvetica "Embellishing the Truth" aka lying.
How could you not reveal the *slightly* important fact that whoever you do your night action on will be infected with Murrayitis?
Anything else you're hiding, mr Sticky? In the words of Antoine Dodson "You are so dumb. You are really dumb. For real." kingjames and infinitestory are merely speculating on the fact that my poke could infect them. however in my talks with artanis it is pretty clear the point of my role is to a. confirm my role to others and to b. tell who does and doesn't have murrayitis i was never told that i infect people with murrayitis and my understanding is that my role is designed to fight its spread you like to paint me as a liar whenever you can based on posts you don't even have the reading comprehension to understand obviously mafia would be shitting their pants at the idea of electing me. it's suspicious to say the least. Anyone who was even remotely invested in the Haunted Mafia game would be horrified at the prospect of letting you become the Mayor after the way you completely screwed up the game in the final days. Gj killing one of the last 3 mafia, letting the vamps just stroll to victory -_- I have no interest in allowing someone who screws up in that magnitude in a job as the town mayor. First, you need to STOP with the personal attacks. How does your personal crusade help anyone in this game? Focus on what is relevant. We're going to need logic to get through an insane game. Anyway, a couple of comments about this following post: On October 30 2010 14:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It seems like you're trying to use this pretty far out possibility as a point against me. hehe, "point". Was that an intended pun? =) On October 30 2010 14:28 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
The same sort of arguments could be applied to almost any player, that their role could be INSANE and unhelpful and all that jazz.
I think I've done enough to prove to you guys that I'm on your side as town.
You're pressing it so hard it's almost suspicious ;0 although i understand not wanting to leave any stone of possibility unturned I'm being sincere in my attempts to further this discussion. I agree that you seem town, especially since you voluntarily gave information about your role even before you realized the significance of the title. I am not trying to discredit you. You're under fire only because you were the the most recent candidate to sum up your position. Then I asked for more specifics and now we're discussing that your role may be tainted. I just want the town to perform their due diligence before we elect our Mayor. Full agreeal  The fact that nobody provided a non-WIFOM solution to the scenario I proposed, coupled with the relative worthlessness of DrH's ability (in terms of needing bodyguards), has made me change my vote back to myself.
You can't really create a non-wifom arguement on the first day without anything happening. Everything is speculation, words or lies. Policies that a mayor will carry out are often why someone is voted in. I can make a circle. I have access to a number of confirmed townies who I can keep information with I am poisoned or lynched for whatever reason. I will relate everything that happens in the circle excluding names.
Dr. H stated his policy and plans in a lovely format and fishball did as well I think.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
From the very start of your candidacy, you poised two reasons for your mayoral candidacy:
1. Your role is very important.
On October 30 2010 10:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well, my role is the most important thing
2. You'll be able to prove that you aren't blue.
On October 30 2010 14:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
not to mention a confirmed townie mayor is a very useful thing, considering the fact that it is likely i would be recruited into the various circles of teh game
Let me quote myself re point 1:
On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote:
Basically, your ability is thus:
"Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor?
And regarding your second point, in a game where we don't know the true mechanics of your role, your role could easily involve simply infecting people with your stick.
After one night action, you can simply claim that the guy you infected "turned up infected" in your nightly "check." Then you can just as easily invite plague doctors to cure him. When they confirm your victim was infected, you were going to claim that you are a blue based on that fact.
Thus, based on pure game mechanics consideration, there is no way you can prove your status as a townie.
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On October 30 2010 14:56 orgolove wrote:
And regarding your second point, in a game where we don't know the true mechanics of your role, your role could easily involve simply infecting people with your stick.
I lol'd
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United States4053 Posts
On October 30 2010 14:57 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:56 orgolove wrote:
And regarding your second point, in a game where we don't know the true mechanics of your role, your role could easily involve simply infecting people with your stick.
I lol'd
nice catch, i lol'd too
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
-_-
On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid  if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. here is my solution: if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely) I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis. If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke. this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out. does that make sense?
And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
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On October 30 2010 14:58 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:57 Ace wrote:On October 30 2010 14:56 orgolove wrote:
And regarding your second point, in a game where we don't know the true mechanics of your role, your role could easily involve simply infecting people with your stick.
I lol'd nice catch, i lol'd too
Oh come on guys, I've been doing it for pages... 
On October 30 2010 14:19 kingjames01 wrote:
What better way to spread a disease than to poke someone with an infected stick?
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On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote:-_- Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. here is my solution: if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely) I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis. If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke. this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out. does that make sense? And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
I must say thats a really good point.
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On October 30 2010 14:56 orgolove wrote:From the very start of your candidacy, you poised two reasons for your mayoral candidacy: 1. Your role is very important.Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 10:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Well, my role is the most important thing
2. You'll be able to prove that you aren't blue. Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
not to mention a confirmed townie mayor is a very useful thing, considering the fact that it is likely i would be recruited into the various circles of teh game Let me quote myself re point 1: Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote:
Basically, your ability is thus:
"Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor? And regarding your second point, in a game where we don't know the true mechanics of your role, your role could easily involve simply infecting people with your stick. After one night action, you can simply claim that the guy you infected "turned up infected" in your nightly "check." Then you can just as easily invite plague doctors to cure him. When they confirm your victim was infected, you were going to claim that you are a blue based on that fact. Thus, based on pure game mechanics consideration, there is no way you can prove your status as a townie.
it can be proved that my mechanic is not infecting people with my stick. if plague doctors visit the people i poke, then it will become immediately apparent if that is the case
if i am mafia i have put myself in the worst possible position where lying would get me instakilled
considering you've called me out on two lies already in this thread that I immediately called out as bullshit (funny how you didn't respond either time) I'm not surprised you're trying to imply it again
the problem with your analysis is this and I'm now going to respond to the part I'm bolded
This would have to be a person other than the person I poked. Since when a poke DOESN'T go through that means the person is infected, a poke going through means they are not.
so lets say I infect someone intentionally then invite plague doctors to cure him.
then i'm not infecting anyone throughout the whole game as I do this. meaning that my infection power is made 0, a shitty awful play. so I'm shooting myself in the foot to get confirmed blue status for almost no benefit (an extra vote whoopee). I'd have to lie to get a real infection off and plague doctos would know, could claim it, and get me lynched
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On October 30 2010 14:59 orgolove wrote:-_- Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On October 30 2010 13:51 infinitestory wrote:Just thought of another way DrH might fake the role: Suppose his claim about the poking is correct, including that the poked knows DrH did the poking. But say DrH were a mafia and the 1 person infected with Murrayitis. This "poke" could be the method by which he transfers Murrayitis... and the person poked would still confirm that DrH poked him, thus establishing credibility. The plague doctors would immunize the people DrH tells them to, possibly including any reds that end up infected. This possibility has me extremely paranoid if only because it gives the reds such a gigantic advantage. The only ways I can think of to beat this scenario are very WIFOM. here is my solution: if plague doctors visit the people I poke, then the numbers of murrayitis won't rise assuming that I am the one transferring murrayitis (a scenario which i would call extremely unlikely) I can prove I'm townie because mafia don't know who I will confirm to. They thus can't infect that person reliably and it will become evident very soon that the people I'm poking do not have murrayitis. If they infect that person that night they would do so to trick plague doctors. If we discover this is their pattern of infection then there will never be a spread of infections because plague doctors just visit the people I poke. this forces mafia to infect other people, which means I'll be confirmed. it is a bigger loss to them to infect nobody than it is to let me get off confirmed as town so I think it'll work out. does that make sense? And no, that won't work. In a game where we don't know how many plaguebearers there are, if the mafia ever has their own plague doctors, then the numbers can remain the same while the mafia "heals" one of their previous disease hits.
we know that as of now, no one in this game has the plague. artanis clearly clearly stated this in the day post.
the general town consensus is that the 2+1 mafia kp means that the "1" is probably a role that infects people with murrayitis
the only other alternative I see is that the disease is dropped on somebody through an RNG by artanis
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On October 30 2010 15:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
the only other alternative I see is that the disease is dropped on somebody through an RNG by artanis
i doubt that is the case because that could put the town in a lot of trouble without mafia doing anything about it.
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No, you could be lying to get Mayor power because you fear the potential damage the other candidates can do
If I was Scum I'd heavily consider running for Mayor just to deny it to the town. It's more than just an extra vote (which is always powerful) - I deny the right for a pro-town player to have bodyguards and can now kill with impunity.
Either way the more you talk the more I'm against you being Mayor. Too much WIFOM bullshit instead of just facing up to the fact that we have no role list, can't trust people on their word alone and your power really isn't the super duper "I need Mayor because my role owns" ability I was led to believe. I don't see how you getting to be Mayor amplifies your power to the point of ownage.
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On October 30 2010 15:09 Glasse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 15:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
the only other alternative I see is that the disease is dropped on somebody through an RNG by artanis i doubt that is the case because that could put the town in a lot of trouble without mafia doing anything about it.
I agree, I think it's very likely that this is a mafia power.
Look the only alternative to my role is that I'm an insane role that doesn't know he is the infector. Like I said, If this is the case, this can be found out immediately through use of our plague doctor
i am really not that capable of an this intricate of a plan as mafia, i didn't even think of some of the crazy possibilities you guys are coming up with. maybe ya'll woudl be better stickys than me
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On October 30 2010 15:10 Ace wrote:No, you could be lying to get Mayor power because you fear the potential damage the other candidates can do If I was Scum I'd heavily consider running for Mayor just to deny it to the town. It's more than just an extra vote (which is always powerful) - I deny the right for a pro-town player to have bodyguards and can now kill with impunity. Either way the more you talk the more I'm against you being Mayor. Too much WIFOM bullshit instead of just facing up to the fact that we have no role list, can't trust people on their word alone and your power really isn't the super duper "I need Mayor because my role owns" ability I was led to believe. I don't see how you getting to be Mayor amplifies your power to the point of ownage.
fair enough. I'm not the one starting the WIFOM bullshit. I can confirm my power by poking people who can confirm it in the thread. No it isn't the same as artanis telling them "Hey DoctorHelvetica is town" but I think it's a pretty good confirmation tool
i really don't see why anyone would think i was mafia although I can see why you would want to elect fishball or bumatlarge over me for sure
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On October 30 2010 14:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2010 14:52 ghrur wrote:On October 30 2010 14:41 infinitestory wrote:On October 30 2010 14:38 orgolove wrote:
Fine. I'll stop bringing in your confirmed flaws into this equation.
But lets say EVERYTHING you said is 100% true. Basically, your ability is thus:
"Check ONE person a night to see if he has Murrayitis."
Murrayitis isn't a disease that kills immediately - rather than acting on a timer, it requires the mafia to go through and infect more than half the town.
If the mafia managed to infect over 20 townies, then the game's probably already over.
Is the ability to check what is essentially second priority on ONE person a day so important that we should nominate him as the mayor? This is a good point. I'd much rather put bum as mayor, because circle leader/manager is more worthy of nightkill invincibility. Drop all the personal attacks. They're distracting us from the issues at hand. Once again, circle leader, secret PMs mafia GF doesn't sound good to me. :/ The whole Dr. H thing has caused so much havoc and spam that it makes me suspect him as Mafia simply distracting us by causing havoc. >_> Am I the one causing havoc or are the people who are coming up with extreme WIFOM situations that necessitate deception of me by Artanis and intense metagaming causing this shitstorm? Come on, that's a really weak FoS on me.
In the last 20 pages, only like 2 have been Artanis WIFOM. The other 18 had you post a crapload and people trying to guess whether or not you're lying about your role, what your role actually was, if you really did have that role, etc etc. All good chaos for mafia no?
Also, once again, I bring up your support of Fishball when you called people idiots for suspecting him. I mean, come on:
To those of you saying Fishball could be lying about his role, slap yourselves
I understand what you mean is that you had a good idea of how to test the truth about the circle, but he could still be lying. Even now, we haven't had confirmation from another "circle" member. In fact, we have TWO people saying they can create circles, Fishball and Bum. It's VERY possible that they could be lying.
having 6 mafia pose as an impartial circle made up of players with several alignments would be the worst mafia play possibly in the history of the game
And here, once again, you're supporting him despite having no proof in the thread yet. I mean, he didn't even have confirmation yet and you already assume that the circle is real. I think that's a bad move on your part. I would assume he could be lying. =/
if the circle doesn't exist, we lynch fishball. it's that simple.
we rolecheck those who claim to be in the circle.
now imagine these scenarios:
neutral circle, 5 town aligned players 1 mafia players
neutral circle 6 town aligned players
neutral circle 3 town aligned players, 3 mafia players
from a meta/balance standpoint i find it highly unlikely that mafia outnumber/equal people in this circle. lets say you are the 1 mafia (maybe there are 2) in this scenario. your best move is to come out, post a pm from the circle, and prove it exists
the dt rolechecks you, you flip scum, this incriminates fishball who is blue.
that's why we need everyone in the circle to come out and claim it now. prove it through fishball, who will post his PM correspondence with you. talk about something related to the game (an off topic pm can be sent by any player to any player without fear of modkill) and post it ITT
if the circle is a fake by scum, we'll win the game by forcing all scum to claim or at least get an easy lynch on fishball
if the circle is what fishball claims it to be, then we have a protected member who can communicate outside of the game thread with other players (including mafia) and appears to have an important secondary role. since he is protected by bodyguards, he should claim that role as soon as he is elected and plague doctors should protect him.
Here, once again, you didn't fully analyze the situation.
1st. We aren't sure this circle exists.
2nd. You failed to assess the possibility that dt is insane dt.
3rd. You spent the majority of your post saying why we SHOULD select fishball (which I don't agree with) and then basically forget about the first possibility of 1 mafia, 5 members, and the 1 mafia being fishball.
All in all, I just find you suspicious because of your defense of Fishball, your havoc causing since page 19, and your "claim." =/
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I'm out for tonight
I made my case, my platform, and I feel I've done more to come out as town than anyone has so far. Fishball/Bumatlarge i can see why they would make fantastic mayors considering their powers but I feel that I'm the safest choice in terms of alignment
see you guys tomorrow goodnight
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Btw, have you guys noticed that even if Dr. H is the one infecting people, he can now get away with it? I mean, before, if he were to actually be a mafia, but was revealed to people that he visited them during the night, we'd quickly grow suspicious of him if the people revealed despite them getting M-ris or not. Then, if we saw that they got M-ris, we would obviously think he was the Mafia M-ris spreader. Now, we can't pin him down as anything without wifom on this point. >_< The worst we could pin him as is "anti-town" not specifically a "mafia M-ris spreader."
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On October 30 2010 15:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
the only other alternative I see is that the disease is dropped on somebody through an RNG by artanis
Okay, after reading this post I searched through the thread looking for an official ruling. I remember one of the mods confirmed that the mafia have control over Murrayitis, (at least to begin the game). I found that confirmation here:
On October 29 2010 11:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Day 1 post:Show nested quote +It quickly became clear that the Mafia had somehow harnessed the power of Murrayitis and planned to use it against the town. The Mayor can be infected by Murrayitis.Show nested quote +If the mayor was visited, and was infected, will he die even if the bodyguards are alive when more than half the participants have murrayitis? Yes. Possible bodyguards are unfortunately piss poor medics.Show nested quote + Are there other viruses (standard poisons) present?
There has been instances of people being "poisoned" and dying on the second night. Will this be a separate mechanic from murrayitis? No information regarding possible poisonings is available, but the known effects of Murrayitis do not include death by poisoning on the second night.
HOWEVER, I found this post by DrH as well:
On October 29 2010 10:01 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
my guess is that the mafia has a role that can infect someone with murrayitis. if this is the case that role is our #1 target as town and is the role that mafia would probably want to have as mayor, since mayor is generally immune to rolechecks and special roles can not usually be godfather
It sounds as though he is describing a Role like a tainted Sticky...
Suppose that Sticky is the "mafia role that can infect someone with murrayitis". Well, then according to DrH, "that role is our #1 target as town and is the role that mafia would probably want to have as mayor, since mayor is generally immune to rolechecks and special roles can not usually be godfather"
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EPT
