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A note on roleclaiming - please realize that roleclaiming to myself or DTA sooner rather than later will lend more credit to the truth of your roleclaim. This is simply because you can give us information about what's going to happen before it happens. If we don't trust you as a medic, we're not very well going to feed you the name of our detective to protect. If we don't trust you as a detective, we're not exactly going to be able to hang someone on your whim.
For instance, if you're a medic, you can tell us who you are protecting (or agree to a target we might suggest). Based on how many kills we see, how many vigs we sent out, interactions with potential hits on a given target, it can help us confirm the truth of your claim. Nothing is 100% since mafia could relinquish a kill to try to lend credit to your claim, but this is a win for town anyhow since they're reducing their kills.
If you're a DT, you can feed us who you are investigating (or agree to targets we suggest) and the resultant information. If you tell us player A is a townie, then the following night player A gets killed, it lends credit to your roleclaim far more than if you roleclaimed that you knew player A was a townie after he's already dead. Same deal though, nothing is 100%, but it's very risky for a mafia to try to claim player A is a townie before killing them since they could turn up as a blue role or a miller.
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On June 06 2010 03:42 pyr0ma5ta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 15:17 DarthThienAn wrote:pyr0ma5ta - looks like... 4 in-game posts, 1 irrelevant, 1 joking about supporting LD if he runs (for an excel sheet LOL), 1 copy-pasting bumatlarge's list of clue-linked ppl and saying he suspects Yellow and zeks due to the clues related to them (this was early on), and 1 saying... DUN DUN DUN: On June 04 2010 08:02 pyr0ma5ta wrote:
Yellowink, not only will not vote for you as mayor at this point, at this point I am leaning towards lynching you first. OH SNAP. DID HE JUST --- lol. A really uncalled for and bold accusation. However, this makes me think he is townie, because afaik, he's newbie and a newbie mafia wouldn't go around attracting attention like that by calling someone out straight-up like that. HOWEVER. He's still as inactive as the first two I analyzed. Step up yo game and POST MORE PLZ. He's also posted more in other TL forums recently than in this thread. UNACCEPTABLE. lol. +2 Well hello there. I'm somewhat overwhelmed with this thread, as no mafia game I've ever played had this much posting. That being said, I'm an active reader, even if I'm not an active poster up till this point. I don't see any point in posting just to post when I have nothign to contribute. I posted my opinions/suspicions and reasons. As far as "bold and uncalled for," I thought that posting my suspicion of YI and then declaring that I will not be voting for him was a pretty logical step. Show nested quote +On June 06 2010 01:25 YellowInk wrote:
To clean out the shadows, so to speak, I'd like to propose a clear policy of anti-inactivity. In these early days before we have any good targets to hang (if for some reason we do get good targets to hang we will of course go after named scum as a priority), I suggest that we target those who are inactive. The large scale purpose of this is not that I actually desire to hang anyone due to inactivity (since unfortunately most of these people are likely to be town - especially so in a game filled with new players), but to impress the importance that we cannot effectively combat the scum if people lurk.
Therefore, I propose the following requirements to all posters: You must post your thoughts on at least four different people each day. Give reasoning (this is important). These thoughts must be spaced out such that two of these posts must be at least 12 hours apart. That is to say you can talk about 3 people at one point, then just sometime later in the day you have to give thoughts on another person. This is a bare minimum requirement. I encourage people who really are town to go ahead and post as much of their thoughts as they are willing.
It is also important that you post as much original thought as you can. Since this is not something easily judged, I'm not putting it in the above requirements. However the mafia will be forced to conceal their intentions in some way - and one of the easiest ways they could choose to do so is to just parrot the thoughts that others have already expressed. So if you're town, don't do this! You may agree with their thoughts and voice that you do so agree, just don't count it as one of your four thoughts for the day.
The consequence for failure to meet this policy will be that you will be eligible to be hung solely on the basis of your inactivity. In this early game, we will often not have great scum targets. If everyone were to talk a lot, we might have some decent reads on folk. Furthermore, we'd have more information in the mid to late game from all of this early talk to figure out who is mafia.
Please discuss your thoughts on this policy. This is something the town has to agree upon since people are lynched by majority vote. I think it is clear how this policy will have a long term effect of benefiting town. Oddly, some of us have jobs and/or lives and not infinite hours to post on this thread. You're welcome to demand whatever you want, but I'm going to post if and only if I'm damn well ready to post. That being said, I'll give an opinion or two. People I have a feeling about: (may or may not have anything to do with reality, your mileage may vary) YellowInk - Still somewhat unimpressed with his performance. When I posted, it was early in the day, and I've since softened my position due to his very active posting. I still think he's more likely to be Mafia than not. Awkward because he's in an elected role and is now immune to Role Checks. LunarDestiny - I feel good about him. I like his posting and I'm giving him a pass for now. burnatlarge - I am unsure how I missed this, but doesn't his name jump out for the burning ink clue as well? I hope I'm not the first one to see this. LaXerCannon - His profile is a famous speech from Hamlet, and didn't Hamlet's mother die from poisoning?
His name is bumatlarge, not burnatlarge...
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On June 06 2010 03:10 sputnik.theory wrote:
I've noticed that a quite a few players (including me) have been called out for not posting too much on day1 and in our defence, I'd just like to point out that there's only so much that can be said at the start of the game. I'll be posting more as the game develops and there's actually things to talk about.
It's not about posting hard facts, or analyzing information. Everyone always seems to have this impression that there isn't much to do on day 1. But this game especially, with the mayor elections and all that, offers up so much juicy analysis day 1. I don't care if you're good or bad with "behavioral analysis" - all you need to do is read a posts carefully and think to yourself: "did that make sense?" if not, point out why and consider this person's past actions/posts and determine whether you think they might be mafia (remember that mafia will try to confuse people and create conflicts where there need be none). If the post does make sense, give your opinion about the idea, and STILL consider the person's motives and allegiance.
Every post that someone makes is another indication toward their allegiance, which is why we stress activity so much. See one of my previous posts on the benefits of activity and everyone posting frequently.
@YI's "guideline" - whether or not you take it as a rule or a guideline, it will be enforced either way. Just by the nature of the game, anyone who doesn't post enough will be under suspicion. We need you to post more, no matter how bad you think you are at the game. The more discussion that happens, the better it is for the town.
On June 06 2010 03:35 sputnik.theory wrote:
Yink, no offense but half your posts up to now can be summed up as VOTE FOR YINK.
That being said, you've also posted plenty of information that others have found useful and I'm not trying to take away from that. I'm just not really interested in the early stages of a game as much what comes later and I'm trying to play in a way that will help me get to lategame so I can help make sure town wins. Why should I paint a target on my back for mafia by being a hyper active townie so early on? Especially when I don't feel like the insight I could offer at this point in the game would be as authoritative as others who've played this game before?
I think you need to do your homework. His posts don't "sum up" to VOTE FOR YINK. They include that at the end, but most of them talk about relevant stuff, and are analytical.
sputnik, no offense but take out any of the posts that Yellow has saying "Vote for YellowInk" anywhere, and he'd still have at least 10x your content/post quality.
Also, if we're all super-active-townies, then the mafia won't know who to kill, will they? There's no downside to the town being active. Don't feel like you can't offer insight. Most of it is opinion. There's no right or wrong. But it's important for the rest of us to get your impression, or else you're leaving a 26-person job to 5, 6 people.
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On June 06 2010 03:56 crate wrote:
Just going to weigh in on the activity thing proposed by our dear Pardoner:
It only holds any weight if you threaten to lynch inactives and then follow through. However, in doing so, you're costing the town in this game. Mafia can continue to do the bare minimum pretty easily and have much more incentive to do so than town does, so I think that if the town is lucky we'll get one mafioso dead from not posting enough to meet the requirements, tops. We'll have more material on the less-active mafia this way, sure--they'll be posting at least twice a day instead of once, and it'll have some substance--but we won't have the lynches to punish them for it because I will guarantee not every town-aligned player is going to post enough (not in this game, at least. Perhaps in a game where we're pretty sure that everyone will be active), so we'll have to drop the hammer on those townies.
If you don't lynch people who don't post enough, then this makes some townies and the mafia post more actively on day 2, then they realize there's no teeth to the threat and they can stop and likely some of them will.
As a metagaming play, I think it's okay. Keep doing it, and eventually it'll pay off because there will be activity from everyone (the assumption here is that people who sign up know that this is the standard etc.). I don't think it'll help the town in this individual game though.
I'll go random up some numbers if you want me to look at some people tonight/on day 2.
I'll catch up later on the rest, but I wanted to offer my thoughts on this now.
I understand your thoughts on the metagameyness (this is an awesome word) of the play, but this is not my goal. I can say that I will always play each and every game within the spirit of the game. If we need metagaming adjustments, it should be done in the balance of roles or policy regarding the game rather than player attitudes within the game.
That being said, it is not my intention to continuously lynch inactives. Specifically I want the teeth of this policy to come out when we do not appear to have an otherwise decent target. This is most likely to occur on day 2 and possibly day 3. However, I could see this policy getting invoked on day 6 if we come to a stalemate when someone says, "Hey look, Player B sure got quiet since day 4, why is that?" Hitting an inactive in a stalemate could be better than lynching someone in this instance - it really all just depends on what kind of information we have. It would never get priority over scummy play.
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If you're offering it up as a guideline, that's fine. It's a good guideline. It's mostly more of the same ("it's good for the town if people post, so everyone should post" ... which is true) with the additional idea to look at 4 people per day if it's a guideline though.
I read it as being offered more as an ultimatum, which is where the metagaming comes in and where it most likely hurts the town this game.
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Regardless of the arguments/discussions that have been occurring, it boils down to one thing:
Everyone should post. Not doing so hurts our chances and helps the mafia. It also could get you lynched in the future. There are really no downsides to posting. If you have no posted much yet, start now. If you have nothing to say, think harder--there is always something. That's all there is to it. Let's move on past this.
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And I realize I'm not exactly the most active poster, I'm just saying lol
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From my experience from an IRL mafia-like game, activity calls activity and inactivity calls inactivity, so if the townies are being active, it makes mafia less likely to try to hide in the shadows. (which is good for us townies)
In this game, I can see LunarDestiny and YellowInk, the experienced players, trying to help potentially new players to grasp the game with tips and advice. It looks like genuine advice from what i've red from other games. I think we can trust them for now and if LunarDestiny is attacked tonight, it will be really meaningful.
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Elyas, what a person you are to wish my death can justify my action.
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I did say attacked, not killed, you can still be saved by a medic, right ? (which is what I hope, sincerely)
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Though I won't quite say "post or you suck", I will join YellowInk in begging for activeness amongst town. I understand that there might not be a lot to say yet, especially if you're new to the game, but investing a little time to even just comment on what other people are saying helps. You may not have been given a blue role, but that doesn't mean the game is going to be boring for you. And going inactive just because you don't have night actions/passive abilities is far worse for town than if town just didn't have any blue roles at all.
An active town has a lot of power. And we can't really win without it, because otherwise everything turns into bandwagoning on the vote just to avoid getting mod-killed. Which could be very dangerous, should such occur without critical thinking/actual reading of the thread.
As will be pretty much customary, I'll be back on a few hours after the next Day post comes up.
In case I'm dead and can't say it then, something to keep in mind: Just because a person claims to be hit last night and only two people died, doesn't mean they were. Mafia can stack hits, and while it would be ultimately unwise to do so, they might be tempted to throw the Godfather out there in an attempt to infiltrate any blossoming town-circles. So, as always, exercise caution.
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On June 06 2010 04:23 MTF wrote:
Though I won't quite say "post or you suck", I will join YellowInk in begging for activeness amongst town.
The 'you suck' is for all the people who join a game, see they're townie (and have no role), then post to avoid bans because they're bored. I don't think that's necessarily why our inactives are inactive, I was just pointing out that people who play this way are parasitic to the game.
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What do you mean by Mafia stacking hits?
How many people can Mafia kill in one night?
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On June 06 2010 04:30 MooCow wrote:
What do you mean by Mafia stacking hits?
How many people can Mafia kill in one night?
That depends on their current killing power I believe. And I think stacking means that they can devote multiple hits to a single target, to try and override a medic's protection
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Vanilla Town is one of the most important roles in the game. The mafia already know who's innocent and who's not innocent. It's the town's job to figure out who's innocent/not innocent. As a townie, you need to make sure all of us know that you are innocent. If you don't do that then you're, again, hurting the town.
Man. I wonder how many times I'm going to have to repeat myself.
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On June 06 2010 04:08 crate wrote:
If you're offering it up as a guideline, that's fine. It's a good guideline. It's mostly more of the same ("it's good for the town if people post, so everyone should post" ... which is true) with the additional idea to look at 4 people per day if it's a guideline though.
I read it as being offered more as an ultimatum, which is where the metagaming comes in and where it most likely hurts the town this game.
I posed it like one might pose a law. It's enforcement will always depend on the situation. For instance, highway speed limits around where I live are 55 miles per hour. Is an officer going to pull you over for going 60? Probably not, but maybe. Depends on if they've hit their quota for the month, their mood, and if someone else is speeding by you at 75.
The request for thoughts on 4 people per day spread out in at least two posts was a clear benchmark that all new players should be able to hit. If everyone were to do this, we'd probably be able to get decent enough reads that we could find the red. If someone only posts 3 are they going to get autohung? Of course not - but I wouldn't be averse to hanging them if we didn't have any better targets. It is my hope that people would do more than this, but this policy sets a clear expectation so that someone can't go back and say, "I thought I was being active enough!"
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On June 06 2010 04:34 DarthThienAn wrote:
Vanilla Town is one of the most important roles in the game. The mafia already know who's innocent and who's not innocent. It's the town's job to figure out who's innocent/not innocent. As a townie, you need to make sure all of us know that you are innocent. If you don't do that then you're, again, hurting the town.
Man. I wonder how many times I'm going to have to repeat myself.
I just try to pose it in different words each time. 
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On June 06 2010 04:27 YellowInk wrote:
The 'you suck' is for all the people who join a game, see they're townie (and have no role), then post to avoid bans because they're bored. I don't think that's necessarily why our inactives are inactive, I was just pointing out that people who play this way are parasitic to the game.
O, I agree with that. Which is what I was trying to counter by saying that green townie is not powerless or boring to play if you're actually active. It is, in fact, town's greatest weapon.
On June 06 2010 04:33 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2010 04:30 MooCow wrote:
What do you mean by Mafia stacking hits?
How many people can Mafia kill in one night? That depends on their current killing power I believe. And I think stacking means that they can devote multiple hits to a single target, to try and override a medic's protection
Correct. They have three hits to devote to between one-three targets right now. They could stack all three hits on one person to try to negate any (overwhelming) protection that person has or they could spread them out to three individuals.
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On June 06 2010 04:33 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2010 04:30 MooCow wrote:
What do you mean by Mafia stacking hits?
How many people can Mafia kill in one night? That depends on their current killing power I believe. And I think stacking means that they can devote multiple hits to a single target, to try and override a medic's protection
Yep. So for instance, current Mafia KP is 3. They could potentially stack 3 KP on one person - it would override veteran status AND a medic protection in that case. Medic protection takes off one KP from the target. If mafia stack 2 of their 3 KP on one person, it kills any regular townie with medic protection. etc. etc.
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My question about the stacking thing is our we informed if that is the option mafia decide to use? I mean that when the report on the hit comes, do we get to know something like "two attempts were made" if the mafia decides to stack 2 on an individual? Seems like that would be really useful information for us to know about the mafia's actions
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EPT
