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On June 04 2010 11:55 Korynne wrote:I would like to point out that BrownBear made a false statement. xP You didn't so much barely lose as you caused the town to lose if I recall correctly. =P XeliN was like OMG KORYNNE SCUM except you did all sorts of stupid shit and made yourself too scummy to not vote for. =P So I guess you could say you just barely lost but it was also like, you were a big part of the cause. =P Anyway hope this post is okay cuz like, that's not deep analysis, if you read that game at the end you're just like, ohhh fuck. xD Edit: Yeah we all like to lurk and post random one-liners in games. xP No worries, just ignore us all. =P
Eh, if it's ok with the mod and the community, it's fine by me. I just worry that it could influence the game, even if unintentional or obliquely. Posting after the game has completed about your thoughts while you watched the game should be fine regardless.
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On June 04 2010 11:55 Korynne wrote:I would like to point out that BrownBear made a false statement. xP You didn't so much barely lose as you caused the town to lose if I recall correctly. =P XeliN was like OMG KORYNNE SCUM except you did all sorts of stupid shit and made yourself too scummy to not vote for. =P So I guess you could say you just barely lost but it was also like, you were a big part of the cause. =P Anyway hope this post is okay cuz like, that's not deep analysis, if you read that game at the end you're just like, ohhh fuck. xD Edit: Yeah we all like to lurk and post random one-liners in games. xP No worries, just ignore us all. =P
Hey, I made one bad judgement call, and paid for it the entire game. XeliN lost it for the town, not me 
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YellowInk: HUGE LOL for you posting that much analysis on day 1. Grats bro, you care a lot about winning the election. Doesn't mean you have to run a smear campaign against me to make yourself look good.
Of course, now you have garnered my ire. No pardons for you >
Give me a little bit to craft my defense/ridicule of you.
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YellowInk stop accusing everyone that disagree with you. it only make town confuse and get us nowhere.
Do I have to explain why i voted for Darth again. Yes, my vote was casted early and that is because of everyone playing in the game, Darth shown himself (to me at least) as the best mafia player. Also, no one found any clue pointing at Darth and that makes him the best candidate available.
Again, i didn't vote for him out of pity for that hilarious moment in "Bang Bang Mafia."
Is Darth a good candidate for mayor? I don't know.
But I do know is that there is no better candidate to be a mayor.
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Hey now peoples, that's what real politicians do. xP
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On June 04 2010 11:52 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:27 DarthThienAn wrote:
Hm, yea. The whole idea of course depends on vigilantes following the town's votes. But I think you're still misunderstanding, so lemme lay out my interpretation of the plan:
ASSUMPTION:
-vigilante never hits anyone without the town's suggesting it or voting on it.
-medic doesn't protect anyone who the town would suspect enough to send a vig hit.
With those two intact, the only killing happening at night should be by mafia, except when we tell the vig to hit someone, of course.
SO:
-medic successfully protects a hit on someone.
-that someone cannot be mafia, because the mafia would never nightkill their own for no reason - it just doesn't accomplish anything lol, except maybe tricking the town into thinking that the vigs took a shot which is relatively useless.
-since that person is town, and the medic is obviously town, the medic has a positive townie. hence, PM, etc. two townies now know who each other are, which is a big deal, especially if you add on a couple more or if by chance, the saved guy is already in a town circle.
The only real disadvantage to this plan is that mafia would know who's getting hit by vigilantes and can avoid doubling up on someone like that. However, it's a small price to pay when that's the way it will probably unfold anyway, and we have a potential positive read for medics as a reward.
Assuming I haven't majorly messed up in here, I think you should be able to agree with this argument.
I agree with your argument here. This is part of the ultimate goal of townies - to organize our forces. If we can manage this, mafia have almost no chance at winning. I was working under the assumption that we were not organized. The challenge to organizing lies with trust. If a power role places their trust in a mafia for whatever reason, it can be absolutely devastating to the town.
Well the good thing about this particular plan is that there is almost 0% chance of the medic trusting a mafia member, if they ever save someone from getting hit. The idea of the mafia hitting their own members to potentially forge an alliance with a medic is just so ridiculous and unfavorable for them that I don't see them pulling that stunt. Especially when an appropriate DT check can completely nullify that scheme. So in that sense, a power role would never be entrusted into mafia hands with this plan.
The only problem I might see is a misdirected vigilante hit, but hopefully, our vigis will hold back until there are two or three suspects that we need to check out/kill/clear all on the same day for more information or something like that. The vigilante part is really the only step in this plan that mafia can influence, in my opinion.
Also, no matter who becomes mayor/pardoner we better be organized -_-. Actually, I'm not even saying the mayor needs to do it. It's the whole town's responsibility to be organized, so anyone slacking off for whatever reason (unless it's real life hehe), get your head in the game, think about how you can help/contribute, and do it.
On June 04 2010 12:05 YellowInk wrote:
To put out some other thoughts on my mind, LunarDestiny grows more suspicious in my eyes practically every other post. His most recent shenanigans are talking about how inevitable it is that mafia will get one of the two voted roles. To look back at the other things he's done, he has demonstrated a poor understanding of the rules, based his vote on Darth on previous game experience, and posted in disregard of things stated earlier in the thread (and it wasn't a time lag post, he had posted since). Earlier I had noted it in thread and chalked it up to new player error, but it just keeps happening.
LD, if you're really town, please stop and think more about what you're posting before putting it up. Think it all the way through to it's logical completion.
Because LD was so quick to vote for Darth in the early game, some of this suspicion bleeds on to Darth as well. In Darth's defense, though, his own posts have been very well thought out and beneficial to the community, so I still lean towards pro town on him.
As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past.
ON THAT NOTE: Something that I just noticed, more pplz needs to be talking plz. The activity level is decent but I wants more! I believe it is official the second half of Day 1. Keep the posts coming people, and if you're voting for someone, please explain your reasoning. Don't forget to abstain if you have no idea who to vote for (or vote for someone random), as we don't want to lose townies needlessly.
Modkills:
Inactivity has been a problem in every mafia game so far. Inactivity is most easily defined as failure to vote. If you do miss a vote, you will be modkilled.
You can even vote for yourself, just don't get modkilled (for the vote-confused players at this point). Definitely do not miss the vote however.
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I definitely don't accuse everyone that disagrees with me. It's just that most of the people who do so have reeked of scum. As a counter example, MTF has disagreed with me, but so far has posted in a way that is beneficial to the town.
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ebwop to clarify: what I meant by my last note is that, I'm actually realizing that a lot of the activity is from the same people. YellowInk, myself, zeks before he went to sleep o.O, LD, etc. 10 people tops are really active.
The rest of you need to post more. 20 ~inactives is a NONO. To the inactive list (props to MTF for this):
On June 04 2010 09:53 MTF wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 09:49 zeks wrote:
Anyone have a list of inactives ?
I'm not gonna bother compiling this cause I'm probably gonna make another mistake on that There aren't many: barth AcrossFiveJulys Icysoul LaXerCannon supernovamaniac These are the only people who have yet to say anything so far. A few others have only made a single post.
I know AFJ posted saying he would post later, but the rest of you, post SOMETHING. barth I know has been in a game before so he has no excuse. AFJ as well but he's "covering" himself already. The other three of you, just post an introduction of yourself and your favorite artist or SOMETHING. Don't let us lynch you needlessly if you are town.
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On June 04 2010 12:33 DarthThienAn wrote:
As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past.
Ugh, is that how games here go? That will make the games really swingy. Have to work with what we're given though, eh?
Oh, and Vote YellowInk for Mayor! 
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YellowInk, you can analyze post and ask question about why someone did that BUT stay away from those heavy phrase like "he's mafia" or "he acts scummy."
The mafia would love that townies direct their hates toward each other while they are in the dark, smiling. That is why I repeatly push that inactive to step up or be lynched.
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On June 04 2010 12:37 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 12:33 DarthThienAn wrote:
As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past. Ugh, is that how games here go? That will make the games really swingy. Have to work with what we're given though, eh? Oh, and Vote YellowInk for Mayor!
Well I wouldn't know haha. Never played with a mayor. Personally, I just go with the voice of reason.
Playing with people in the past gives you a sense of their style for play. For example, L, who you've seen around, is just a crazy guy, both when he's town and when he's mafia. So, lolol on that part.
I notice random people voting for me though. A little suspicious, without reasoning. I mean, I suppose I'm happy that you vote for me, but I'd like to understand why ^^.
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On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote:
BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post.
Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear.
And here's why no one should listen to you 
Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote:
Alright, I'm back.
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious.
Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth.
YellowInk:
He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none.
So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool.
There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad.
Show nested quote +Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective.
Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective.
Allow me to quote you for a second:
On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list.
If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently.
Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red.
You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is?
Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively?
I question your logic, good sir. I question it.
Show nested quote +zeks:
he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad.
Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on.
If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing.
Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious.
Show nested quote +DarthThienAn:
I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic.
I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game.
On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town.
Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is.
By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate.
Show nested quote +Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do:
1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies
I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum.
2) Pardon power roles if necessary
If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know).
And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing.
Show nested quote +Here are my credentials:
Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times.
I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target.
I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me.
I AM NOT SCUM. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it.
Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool...
Show nested quote +That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen.
Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen.
Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing:
I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect.
Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly.
I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on!
And I think my stance is clear here :D
Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you.
PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up!
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It shouldnt really matter if they have played together before, its not as if flamewheel has them all buddied up as blues or mafia, they just have the same train of thought it seems. Im starting to feel different about not having more candidates to leave more room as Id think mafia would only choose one person to run for mayor and then get behind him, but if they play a little deeper, they might have multiple ones or none at all.
Less then 24 hours before we choose a mayor?
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On June 04 2010 12:33 DarthThienAn wrote:
As far as I know, LD and I just share a mutual bond of affection and love. Same with BB. A lot of my supporters in thread right now are just people who have played with me in the past.
I can't ever give you up, baby <3
Nah, but I'm backing you for mayor cause I think mayor position needs to be someone who understands the game pretty well, and you've proven you know what you're doing. Plus, Three Kingdoms was awesome, town council ftw ^^
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On June 04 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote:stuff + Show Spoiler +On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote:
BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post.
Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. And here's why no one should listen to you Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote:
Alright, I'm back.
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious.
Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth.
YellowInk:
He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. Show nested quote +Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list.
If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently.
Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red.
You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. Show nested quote +zeks:
he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad.
Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. Show nested quote +DarthThienAn:
I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic.
I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town.
Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. Show nested quote +Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do:
1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies
I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum.
2) Pardon power roles if necessary
If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Show nested quote +Here are my credentials:
Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times.
I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target.
I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me.
I AM NOT SCUM. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... Show nested quote +That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen.
Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen.
Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing:
I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up!
Considering I have already either responded to each point you've made or that the logic is blatantly flawed, I will just direct the populace to read carefully to see the truth.
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INACTIVE please step up. There are a lot of progress in the thread but the voting is so little. The mafia would easily beat town to the mayor position if you guys don't participate.
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+ Show Spoiler [BB] +On June 04 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote:
BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post.
Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. And here's why no one should listen to you Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote:
Alright, I'm back.
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious.
Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth.
YellowInk:
He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. Show nested quote +Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list.
If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently.
Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red.
You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. Show nested quote +zeks:
he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad.
Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. Show nested quote +DarthThienAn:
I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic.
I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town.
Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. Show nested quote +Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do:
1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies
I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum.
2) Pardon power roles if necessary
If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Show nested quote +Here are my credentials:
Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times.
I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target.
I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me.
I AM NOT SCUM. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... Show nested quote +That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen.
Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen.
Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing:
I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. Show nested quote +I hope you all agree with me. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up!
Dude I always thought it was Finger of Suspicion.
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On June 04 2010 12:55 DarthThienAn wrote:+ Show Spoiler [BB] +On June 04 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 11:44 YellowInk wrote:
BrownBear, your post reeks of scum. A lot. If this were a game with experienced players I probably would hold off because I'd expect others to pick up on it as well. I'd let you try to make a couple more plays before pointing the finger. But since it's not, here's another incendiary post.
Here's why no one should vote for BrownBear. And here's why no one should listen to you Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 07:58 BrownBear wrote:
Alright, I'm back.
And holy crap, has stuff been happening. Mayoral contest is heating up, with YellowInk pushing for himself pretty heavily, despite a lot of people being rather skeptical. It looks like people are reading way too much into the "hot ink/yellowink" clue, which I find odd, because it is Day 1 after all. Clues are traditionally very vague/nonexistant on day 1, and they're also usually very well hidden and not obvious.
Since mayoral elections are kinda the big deal today, I thought I'd look at the candidates who have been pretty vocal - YellowInk, zeks, and Darth.
YellowInk:
He reeeeeeeallly wants to be mayor. Like, seriously. There's been a lot of back and forth between him and Darth re: exactly what being mayor entails. He seems to think that he can be completely cleared by cluechecks, which is not true, sorry bro. However, because pretty much everyone in this game is new, that's a very understandable mistake, so it also doesn't make him look scummy. He's been the most incendiary candidate so far, attacking both zeks and Darth on their plans for their mayorship. It's true that a clue check isn't 100%. Maybe hot ink just flavor, or maybe there's some other clue pointing at me. You can never be absolutely sure about this sort of thing. However it does provide strong evidence - stronger than anyone else can put forward at the moment. I've attacked Zeks for reasons that are clear in my post. He's playing like scum. I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town. However, I still feel that I am the better candidate for the mayor's office because I have a better way to be cleaned in office than he does. Sure, it's not 100%, but it's better than he has. That BrownBear would choose to say that I have attacked Darth on his plans for mayorship incites conflict where there is none. So... you're saying that hot ink is strong evidence against you. cool. There's a very very serious thing in mafia games. This thing is called the Finger of Shame. The Finger of Shame is what you point at people when you want to accuse them of mafia, and should only be used as a tool to incriminate people you are positive are scum. The Finger of Shame is what you are pointing all over the freakin' place, on day 1. This is a very very confusing thing for you to be doing, as we have little to no evidence to go on. You think zeks is playing like scum, sure, go ahead. It is day 1, however. I have read over zeks' posts, and I don't see anything of serious note in them, so I guess you know something I don't. However, you've accused at least 2 (possibly more) people of being scum. On the first day. You do know you have a chance in 5 of being correct, right? There is no way you have enough evidence to call scum on someone, so you have just rolled the roulette wheel on me and zeks being mafia. What you are doing is very bad, because if you start suspicion on people, you have a 20% chance of it paying off and them flipping red when they are eventually lynched. You have an 80% chance of hitting a townie, weakening the town, and making yourself look bad. Show nested quote +Here's what I think: A DT should CLUECHECK (not rolecheck) the hot-ink part of today's post tonight. If that's a clue, then that's pretty damning for poor YellowInk, although we should profile-analyze everyone else just to be sure. It's far more likely that it's nothing, however, which is why I'm not advocating a rolecheck this early in the game (I do not think rolechecks should be used night 1. It's unlikely the DTs are going to die night 1, and having rolechecks late in the game is very useful), so if it's not a clue, then I'd be ok with YellowInk being mayor. Unfortunately, since there's no way to cluecheck before the elections are done, I can't endorse YellowInk for mayor, sorry bro. If you're going to cluecheck it but not try to link it to me, this is a poor play. If it turns up as merely flavor, the move gained no new information. If it turns up as a clue, it'll make me look bad even though I know it's pointed at someone else. Either I'll get lynched (at which point you'll see that I really am town) or at DT will use up another move seeing if it's linked to me (at which point they'll find it isn't and will have gained no useful information). If you're going to cluecheck it at all, see that it's not linked to me. But only bother to do this if you believe that it coming up as negative cleans me. Do not be led by BrownBear's attempts at making your plays less effective. Yep. That's me. Trying to make everyone's play less effective. Allow me to quote you for a second: Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
The difference between me and others is that many of them are less clear and overlap. I would be willing to bet that we could try to put together a comprehensive list of how all the clues possibly attach to any of the profiles and there would be at least one mafia who we missed in that list.
If someone has multiple clues that could possibly point to them, they're a poor candidate for mayor since it would take several days to clean them. Because I have a singular clue, it puts me in the position to be cleaned efficiently.
Yes, if I am not elected to mayor, I'm sure a DT will still check my clue out and find that I am town. In this case I will be supportive in any way that I can. The point of electing me to mayor is that I can be efficiently cleaned in office where others can not. You will always have to wonder if the mayor is red.
You told us to cluecheck you. I am saying we should cluecheck you. I don't see where the problem is? Oh wait, I do. You think I want people to cluecheck and not try and link it to you. That's stupid. Just because I said "hey someone should cluecheck" instead of EXPLICITLY saying "cluecheck and see if it's linked to yellowink" I am making the town play less effectively? I question your logic, good sir. I question it. Show nested quote +zeks:
he has a plan. He posted his plan. I'm really not a fan of it. His logic behind the DT rolecheck pattern is flawed, for this reason: there is something like a 48% chance they are both in the same bracket. Even though there's a 1 in 225 chance that they both rolecheck the same person, there's a 100% chance that half the players in the game are being completely ignored. This is very very bad.
Again, he doesn't look scummy, he looks new. This is not a bad thing, but again, I can't in good conscience vote for a candidate who i don't agree with. BrownBear's math is as bad as Zeks' even after I corrected it! No worries, this isn't why this area reeks of scum. It's because after the several posts of Zeks trying to mislead town, BrownBear is trying to shrug it all off as Zeks looking new. Also, Zeks isn't new. I havn't gone digging through the history of mafia here (yet), but crate earlier linked a couple games. In particular, see that this is a game from May of 2009 that Zeks played in. I don't buy any of it, BrownBear. Moving on. If you want to accuse my math of being terrible, please back it up with evidence of why my math is terrible. Otherwise, you're just throwing accusations around, which is a bad thing. Also, I didn't know about zeks playing before, my bad. However, in my defense, I joined in the winter, so I was not around in May 2009 when zeks was playing. Still, whoopsie on my part. I just assumed that since this is a more new-player-focused game, most people would be playing their first or second game of mafia. Out of curiosity, is this your first game? Not attacking you or anything here, just curious. Show nested quote +DarthThienAn:
I've played a game with him before (3 kingdoms mafia rawr :3) and we did pretty well. From his posts so far, he's very pro-town, which I like. His style of play in the last game we played was to make some slightly scummy decisions to try and draw people out. Mafia players tend to love to accuse any town player acting even slightly weird of being mafia, as it draws the suspicion away from him. He had been cleared town by alignment checks, so he went fishing, and (iirc) it didn't really pay off that much, but it wasn't a bad tactic.
I feel most comfortable voting for Darth, if only because I have played with him before, and I know he knows the game reasonably well. It's nothing against the new players (this is a new player game after all ^^), but mayor is a role that can make or break town, and we need someone with slightly more experience in the role, plus there are no clues against him and he has a pro-town attitude. So I say, vote Darth for mayor! This is a set up to garner good will. People like Darth already. He's just riding it. This doesn't contribute much to the discussion anyhow. That he played well or poorly in the past does not reflect on whether or not he should be elected mayor. It doesn't make him any more likely to be pro town in this game. Show nested quote +On June 03 2010 13:42 YellowInk wrote:
I have not attacked Darth - in fact I have said in multiple places that I lean towards him being pro-town.
Hey, contradictions, cool. Also, the fact that he played well in the past doesn't have bearing on whether he's elected mayor? Dude, it has all the bearing in the world, especially if he is pro-town like you say he is. By your logic, if Darth is pro-town, he's the best mayoral candidate. Show nested quote +Now that that's out of the way, I'd like to announce my candidacy for Pardoner. There haven't been any clear pardoner candidates yet, so I thought I might as well get the ball rolling. As pardoner, here's what I would do:
1) Attempt to establish clear connections to confirmed townies
I want to try and work with the most active, coolest town people in the game. I would try to coordinate with DTs secretly to attempt to catch scum, I would work with the medic(s) to protect those that need protecting, and the vigilantes to nail confirmed scum.
2) Pardon power roles if necessary
If a confirmed townie ever comes under fire from the town and is about to get lynched, I will pardon and protect them. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep the confirmed townies, particularly the power roles, alive, as they will be the ones that win us the game. This is all stuff any pardoner should be doing, if they can. The trick of it, just like the mayor's position, is to have developed enough trust with the townies that they're willing to work with you. Both the mayor and the pardoner have a great deal of power, but either of them can still be mafia. In essense, this block of text says nothing that everyone doesn't already know (or at least should know). And your block of text responding to my block of text says even less. I said that for a reason - I wanted to point out that hey, I know how to play pardoner! When you're trying to run for an elected office, it's generally a good idea to, I don't know, prove that you know what your job is if you happen to get elected? You're now fishing pretty deep to find nonexistent "evidence" that proves absolutely nothing about me other than I know what I'm doing. Show nested quote +Here are my credentials:
Have played 2 mafia games before. Won one handily (3 kingdoms) and just barely lost the other (The Life Aquatic). Was townie both times.
I am a standard, green townie this game. No special roles, so I am a low-priority target.
I am completely clean from the day 1 clues, and there is no suspicion against me.
I AM NOT SCUM. Except for the part where the top half of your post exclaims, "I AM SCUM!" at the top of your lungs. Seriously, you probably would have done much better if you had just posted that you were interested in the pardoner position without all the nonsense you led off with. Considering how much a few of the irrational people seem to dislike me, you might have gotten it. Uh, what? I'm actually not sure what this is saying. You want me to do less analysis? Ok, cool... Show nested quote +That last point is the most important one, and let me stress why: It's bad to let a mafia player (or god forbid, the GF) get into any elected role, but especially bad to give them Pardoner. The reasoning is, Pardoner gets a free ability to protect ANYONE from lynch, two times, and we have no way to block it. What this means is, if a mafia has Pardoner role, unless we catch on really quickly, we essentially have to lynch 8 mafia instead of 6, as the pardoner can protect his brethren twice. This is something we DON'T want to happen.
Now consider this. There are 6 mafia. If they vote as a bloc, that probably won't be enough to get any scum into the mayor slot, but seeing as there doesn't seem to be a strong second candidate, that just might be enough to give one of them Pardoner. They can probably hide it pretty well too, by have one of their own announce candidacy for mayor and posting a bunch of stuff so he seems legit, then just having them all vote for him, spreading it out throughout the day so it's even less obvious. I don't want that to happen.
Thus, I want you to elect me for Pardoner. What this means is, I am trying to place SECOND in the mayoral election. Whoever you guys choose for mayor (I'm backing Darth, but it doesn't necessarily have to be him) needs to be ahead of me, but I should be ideally, just one vote behind him. So here's what I'm proposing:
I am voting for myself now. That will give me 1 vote, Darth currently has 4. Two more people should vote for me, then we should go by the following: One person votes for Darth, one votes for me. Thus, we will slowly creep up, I will never tie or pass Darth in terms of voting, and, assuming for random 3rd party candidates, Darth should end up with something like 9 votes, I should then end up with 8. That should be enough to keep the scum out of office. With such a contrived method and keeping the vote counts close as you suggest, the mafia would probably be glad to bump the vote up to make you mayor if you've got enough townies behind you near the end. They could do it and claim noobishness and everyone would shrug saying it's a noob game. Oh look, now we have a mafia mayor. It's true, though. We don't want a mafia mayor OR a mafia pardoner. BrownBear is not someone we want to elect. Meh, that would actually be an effective tactic, if everyone was retarded. Thing is, people aren't. The minute mafia tries to pull a stunt like that, we have at least 3 of them. I explicitly state that my vote count will never exceed Darth's. If I were mafia, and my teammates tried to bump me ahead of him last minute, I'm very certain that people would see that, think "hmmm, now why would those people vote against the very clear plan that was laid out?" and all 3 of us would likely go down. The mafia plan you have laid out here is just plain silly. Show nested quote +I hope you all agree with me. I think my stance is clear here. :D All this being said, I would still be ok a third candidate for the elections. On on! And I think my stance is clear here :D Before, I just thought you were an overzealous new player who really really really wanted to be mayor, which I can't really fault. But now, I'm seriously starting to question you. PS this is also not intended to be a personal attack against you I love the fact that you're being so active, keep it up! Dude I always thought it was Finger of Suspicion.
How about we just call it the Finger of Suck? Flip Off Scum? I could think of a few more vulgar things as well... :D Lets just call it The Finger.
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Sorry that I came in late, but I forgot about this.
I'll re-read today, but I will be gone for next 2 days (ARML)
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On June 04 2010 13:13 supernovamaniac wrote:
Sorry that I came in late, but I forgot about this.
I'll re-read today, but I will be gone for next 2 days (ARML)
Got my PM? Glad to have you ^^.
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EPT
