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Via a PM conversation, a player believes that my calling people out for their errors and laying suspicion on them for it may appear to be a pro mafia style - at least to players who have not played very much (or any) mafia. In reality, it's quite the opposite. Even if there were no elected role, I would be going after these same people aggressively for their errors because I am town. It is the responsibility of every townie to point out when anyone makes flawed arguments or supplies bad information. If we didn't and just trusted each other to pick out the truth from the lies, maybe some townies would be deceived by some of the information some of the time, weakening the townie position.
Consider the flip side - if a mafia player goes after everyone aggressively in the same manner, they're drawing attention to themselves. Such players are likely to be investigated - NOT because a detective necessarily expects them to turn up mafia, but because if they do, it not only gives the DT the name of a mafia, but also a number of people who are highly likely to be town! If a DT were find me mafia, they could reasonably conclude that it's likely that BB, LD, and Zeks are town. Of course this isn't 100% since 1) good mafia players will also cast suspicion on fellow mafia to help avoid this kind of collateral damage and 2) if taken as truth before I am hung, I could be a Miller. In any case, mafia playing aggressively like this can give the town a whole lot of information if and when the truth gets out.
As such, most mafia generally have to play fairly quietly. Enough to maintain a presence in the thread, but not so much that they'll open themselves up to getting caught in a lie or give the town too much information if they are found red. This being said, play styles do vary and some people will play mafia roles counter to this stereotype, but it is a highly risky move for the reasons outlined above.
This is why my aggressive play style gives evidence that I am pro town.
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On June 04 2010 14:15 LunarDestiny wrote:
Flamewheel did mention something about mod killing the inactive (those who didn't vote). Someone got to confirm with Flamewheel on that matter about will he really mod kill the inactive.
For the first lynch, I want the target to be an inactive (posted minimum to stay alive) and also has clues relating to him.
I'm SO glad we agree on something! 
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On June 04 2010 14:26 YellowInk wrote:
Via a PM conversation, a player believes that my calling people out for their errors and laying suspicion on them for it may appear to be a pro mafia style - at least to players who have not played very much (or any) mafia. In reality, it's quite the opposite. Even if there were no elected role, I would be going after these same people aggressively for their errors because I am town. It is the responsibility of every townie to point out when anyone makes flawed arguments or supplies bad information. If we didn't and just trusted each other to pick out the truth from the lies, maybe some townies would be deceived by some of the information some of the time, weakening the townie position.
Consider the flip side - if a mafia player goes after everyone aggressively in the same manner, they're drawing attention to themselves. Such players are likely to be investigated - NOT because a detective necessarily expects them to turn up mafia, but because if they do, it not only gives the DT the name of a mafia, but also a number of people who are highly likely to be town! If a DT were find me mafia, they could reasonably conclude that it's likely that BB, LD, and Zeks are town. Of course this isn't 100% since 1) good mafia players will also cast suspicion on fellow mafia to help avoid this kind of collateral damage and 2) if taken as truth before I am hung, I could be a Miller. In any case, mafia playing aggressively like this can give the town a whole lot of information if and when the truth gets out.
As such, most mafia generally have to play fairly quietly. Enough to maintain a presence in the thread, but not so much that they'll open themselves up to getting caught in a lie or give the town too much information if they are found red. This being said, play styles do vary and some people will play mafia roles counter to this stereotype, but it is a highly risky move for the reasons outlined above.
This is why my aggressive play style gives evidence that I am pro town.
I'm inclined to back him up on this, because it's true. I'm pretty sure he's town, given his insane level of activity and aggressive use of Finger of Suspicion.
However, don't overdo the aggression, bro. You'll just end up confusing people and then the mafia can sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch us lynch ourselves to death.
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On June 04 2010 14:23 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 14:21 onihunter wrote:
Darth: General agreement is he posts like a townie, so that's a plus. Also experienced, but that's neither a plus nor a minus. He also seems clear-headed.
Yellow: Posts a LOT. Seems quite defensive when criticized, and I can't really say that I like the guy =/. Just personal preference though, nothing really concrete. Also inciting lots of arguing and conflict that is unnecessary at this point in the game.
Beardude: I really liked him until he responded to Inkguy's attack. His responses weren't that coherent though imo, and he seemed really emotional in that post to me. Also he himself stated that it's personal between the two now, sort of alienating me. However, he IS running for pardoner specifically.
Zeks: There isn't really that much past the few posts that contained mistakes, so can't say much. Suspicious in that he's not a newbie to this game, but I think it's forgivable.
Overall, no one's quite solid, but I'd say that Darth slightly edges out the rest. Basically even for the rest. Thanks yo. BB said it WASNT personal. o.o I'd like to see zeks post s'more. Where'd he go? Correction: I'd like to see EVERYBODY post s'more.
My bad, I thought I remembered that he said that he had a grudge or something before the really long counter-post.
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On June 04 2010 14:25 DarthThienAn wrote:
ebwop: my 1000th post is probably the shortest I've made all game and about the game rules.
lulz. epic. And I no longer recognize my own avatar =[. WHY COULDN'T MY TRAINER PRESS B AND STOP ME FROM EVOLVING.
That appears to be a corsair.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Checking up on thread, will answer questions as I come across to them. Will make a vote count soon.
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Hmm... I took a look on how many posts yellow ink made.
TL Mafia XXVI
61 68 172 187 190 197 199 210 215 216 222 223 228 230 251 252 261 262 272 274 276 280 283 285 286 288 311 315 316 317 320 321 327 329 335 338
Then I look at my numbers of post for comparison...
TL Mafia XXVI
15 40 110 118 121 130 136 141 155 157 240 263 266 267 268 273 275 277 296 298 299 302 303 306 312 319 324 330 336
I consider myself posting a lot.
But Yellow Ink man... most of his posts are pretty damn long. Either he is trying to be the Master Mafia, or he has no life and is pro town.
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On June 04 2010 14:31 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 14:26 YellowInk wrote:
Via a PM conversation, a player believes that my calling people out for their errors and laying suspicion on them for it may appear to be a pro mafia style - at least to players who have not played very much (or any) mafia. In reality, it's quite the opposite. Even if there were no elected role, I would be going after these same people aggressively for their errors because I am town. It is the responsibility of every townie to point out when anyone makes flawed arguments or supplies bad information. If we didn't and just trusted each other to pick out the truth from the lies, maybe some townies would be deceived by some of the information some of the time, weakening the townie position.
Consider the flip side - if a mafia player goes after everyone aggressively in the same manner, they're drawing attention to themselves. Such players are likely to be investigated - NOT because a detective necessarily expects them to turn up mafia, but because if they do, it not only gives the DT the name of a mafia, but also a number of people who are highly likely to be town! If a DT were find me mafia, they could reasonably conclude that it's likely that BB, LD, and Zeks are town. Of course this isn't 100% since 1) good mafia players will also cast suspicion on fellow mafia to help avoid this kind of collateral damage and 2) if taken as truth before I am hung, I could be a Miller. In any case, mafia playing aggressively like this can give the town a whole lot of information if and when the truth gets out.
As such, most mafia generally have to play fairly quietly. Enough to maintain a presence in the thread, but not so much that they'll open themselves up to getting caught in a lie or give the town too much information if they are found red. This being said, play styles do vary and some people will play mafia roles counter to this stereotype, but it is a highly risky move for the reasons outlined above.
This is why my aggressive play style gives evidence that I am pro town.
I'm inclined to back him up on this, because it's true. I'm pretty sure he's town, given his insane level of activity and aggressive use of Finger of Suspicion. However, don't overdo the aggression, bro. You'll just end up confusing people and then the mafia can sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch us lynch ourselves to death.
This is true in the mid-late game especially. This is why we need to ensure in the early game that people cannot lurk posting at minimum - or even posting a lot but avoiding posting anything of substance.
However, because of the flaws in your campaign post (though I know you don't agree with me) I have to strongly oppose you being elected. It's not like I'm looking to bandwagon you on day 2 or anything (or Zeks for that matter). You're very solidly on my 'unsure' list. To be fair, I bet if every single player posted as much about their thoughts on the game as you did, I'd be able to pick apart far more than 6 posters. That is to say, I'd tag a number of non mafia as suspicious. Not everyone has great logic, but mafia by their very role need to put false information into their posts... or avoid putting anything of relevance into their posts.
Players like Darth, MTF, and crate I lean towards pro town because their thoughts are fairly well reasoned and they are contributing to the thread. This doesn't mean that they're 100% clear, but it's the sort of activity that I want to see from all the posters.
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Sorry Darth, but yellow ink had been posting a lot. Willing to be in center of attention even though you are winning in the election by miles and his only vote is from himself.
Because of yellow ink's huge postings record, I have to say yellow ink's chance of being mafia is very, very low. And your chance of being mafia is higher (no offense).
I am going to do what seem like a retard thing that most people hear wouldn't agree on: to change my vote to Yellow Ink (WHAT?).
I weighed Yellow Ink's innocence against Darth's experience and chose the former.
Like I said before, mafia being Mayor is pretty much a GG. So I beg you guys to vote for Yellow Ink or change your vote to Yellow Ink.
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My impressions of the candidates:
YellowInk:
I don't like how he just seems to jump around accusing everyone. He also seems to think that the ink "clue" makes him a perfect candidate: easily cleaned or mafia, which is wrong. I have no idea what he will do in office, but I hope that if he gets a position he does not continue to act like he does now pointing fingers at everyone.
Either dumb mafia or hotheaded townie
DarthTheinAn:
He has had a very neutral opinion on most subjects and has argued peacefully. This has caused many people to believe he is a townie, and he is riding this good vibe to an office. Somewhat suspicious how several people voted for him already, some who have not even explained their reasons for doing so. He seems coolheaded and collected at least, not one to make hasty decisions or jump at people's throats.
either calm and cool townie or smart and calm mafia
Zeks:
Not sure what to think about him. He does not seem to be the most clever of candidates or the most knowledgeable, without a clear idea of how the roles can interact. However, I would rather a scum mayor like him than a scum mayor that can manipulate people well. I want to see how he responds to the recent discussion so I can finish evaluating him.
Either inexperienced/uncreative townie or very smart mafia
BrownBear:
Similar to DTA, but more involved in the arguments with YI and willing to take a stand on things. His late arrival into the campaigning and supporting DTA could be a clever mafia ploy, but I don't think so. I think he doesn't want a mayor like YI and decided to do something about it.
either smart townie or mafia
I don't like either of my guesses about YI or zeks, but I suppose zeks is the most likely townie. DTA and BB are hard to decide on. I almost want to vote crate or myself, but I fear that will cause more confusion and allow the mafia to get both offices. If no one steps up their campaign though...
I think the mayor should lynch TyranoS_NiveK because he already voted DTA, has barely posted, and maybe has a clue related to him.
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On June 04 2010 14:38 LunarDestiny wrote:
Hmm... I took a look on how many posts yellow ink made.
TL Mafia XXVI
61 68 172 187 190 197 199 210 215 216 222 223 228 230 251 252 261 262 272 274 276 280 283 285 286 288 311 315 316 317 320 321 327 329 335 338
Then I look at my numbers of post for comparison...
TL Mafia XXVI
15 40 110 118 121 130 136 141 155 157 240 263 266 267 268 273 275 277 296 298 299 302 303 306 312 319 324 330 336
I consider myself posting a lot.
But Yellow Ink man... most of his posts are pretty damn long. Either he is trying to be the Master Mafia, or he has no life and is pro town.
Ahaha, fair enough. The truth is I love gaming. I said this early in my campaign (in response to Darth saying he'd be active). I'm doing other things online as I play here, though, so it's not a huge burden for me. I'm sure it's much the same for other active posters. Play a game of SC2, check & respond to mafia, rinse and repeat.
I have a life though! =\
But I do love gaming!
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On June 04 2010 14:50 DCLXVI wrote:
My impressions of the candidates:
YellowInk:
I don't like how he just seems to jump around accusing everyone. He also seems to think that the ink "clue" makes him a perfect candidate: easily cleaned or mafia, which is wrong. I have no idea what he will do in office, but I hope that if he gets a position he does not continue to act like he does now pointing fingers at everyone.
Either dumb mafia or hotheaded townie
I just want to make sure you've read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#361 since it responds to the thoughts you've expressed here. Also, with some of my longer term views re: hotheadedness http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#368
Maybe you were writing this post went up before you had the chance to read them since they were two of my more recent posts. You need not worry that I would be reckless in office.
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On June 04 2010 14:59 YellowInk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 14:50 DCLXVI wrote:
My impressions of the candidates:
YellowInk:
I don't like how he just seems to jump around accusing everyone. He also seems to think that the ink "clue" makes him a perfect candidate: easily cleaned or mafia, which is wrong. I have no idea what he will do in office, but I hope that if he gets a position he does not continue to act like he does now pointing fingers at everyone.
Either dumb mafia or hotheaded townie I just want to make sure you've read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#361 since it responds to the thoughts you've expressed here. Also, with some of my longer term views re: hotheadedness http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=127781¤tpage=19#368Maybe you were writing this post went up before you had the chance to read them since they were two of my more recent posts. You need not worry that I would be reckless in office.
lol yeah im reading that now. I started my post back on page 18 and it took longer than expected. I will update my analysis on you once I read that.
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Some closing thoughts before I head off to bed.
At this point in the time of day, I think it would be a bad idea for any new candidates to present themselves. Because of how few people have voted so far, I'm concerned that mafia may attempt to present one of their own "because they don't like the candidates that are up so far", claim their credentials as having no suspicion etc etc and rack up just enough votes to land them at least the pardoner's slot. Between a few mafia vote contributions (not all, this would be asking for a mass mafia suicide) and swaying some of the less experienced populace, I think a tactic like this might be effective (except that I'm warning you all so don't let it happen!)
Among the candidates currently present, you all already know how I feel about BB and Zeks. Though BB has been posting more reasonably since after his massive reply to my calling him out. For this reason I would most prefer to have DTA as my pardoner. Of course I'm not 100% sure he's town, but I think he's the most likely to be town of what's presented and I would be highly suspicious of anyone else presenting themselves for election so late.
So please put in your votes!
Vote YellowInk for mayor! and DarthThienAn enough votes for pardoner so mafia can't squeak anyone in.
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@ YI
Ok so it seemed as if half of your opponents/competitors jumped ship and decided to back you. Either this is a very clever and well planned mafia trick, or people really do have faith in you. I have no problem in you investigating people, but I do not like how you accuse people of being scum so quickly and with very little (read: none) evidence. Just lay out the facts and show us that you can make level headed decisions and I don't have too much against you (as long as you are not a newbie scum.)
Not sure what to think about LD and BB backing you now, but DTA's response should be helpful in clarifying this situation.
I'm sorry if it seems like I don't trust anyone, but that is because I don't have a clear idea of how smart everyone is. This game would be so much easier if I knew just how tricky each person can be.
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On June 04 2010 14:45 YellowInk wrote:
Players like Darth, MTF, and crate I lean towards pro town because their thoughts are fairly well reasoned and they are contributing to the thread. This doesn't mean that they're 100% clear, but it's the sort of activity that I want to see from all the posters.
I've actually been secretly hoping (and was briefly considering suggesting) that Crate would run, as he's the person I feel the most confidence in at the moment.
I guess that this would be a good time to put out how I feel about each candidate at this point, based on several different things.
YellowInk:
Smart, reasonable. Has a decent plan for the first lynch. Is very responsive, which I'm not counting as a clear negative as many others seem to. I don't like the heavy "scum" accusations being thrown around, but it does serve it's purposes. Also provided good general advice for new/inexperienced players. Still platforming heavily on the clue aspect, which is really the only point of contention (well, that and the almost ad-esque "vote for YellowInk" at the end of many posts) I have with him at this point.
DarthTheinAn:
Also seems smart, as well as objective (which is a big plus) and geared towards organizing people. Has not been reactionary in a bad way and apparently checked out some of the people who voted for him as potentially being Mafia, due to the quick bandwagon effect that sprang up. I am a little worried about him due just to that fact, but it seems like the majority of the people who voted for him might have done so simply due to recent games together. More or less contending with YellowInk for my vote right now.
Zeks:
Got a little too much flak for a simple mistake early on. Has an alright plan to open. Seems like a middle-road choice to me right now, vote will currently fall between him and BrownBear should the first two arouse sufficient suspicion.
BrownBear:
Reasoning is sound, but the later arrival, backing of the already-early-bandwagoned DarthTheinAn, and (most importantly) the specific gunning for the role of Pardoner all make me feel very cautious. Pardoner is even more dangerous of a role for Mafia to grab than Mayor is, simply because of the ability to stop a critical lynch, even with a sure death to follow.
All told, I'm hoping for more discussion (and for Crate to randomly decide to run  ).
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My support for Yellow Ink is based on the nature of mafia games.
That, mafia don't want to be center of attention. Mafia also don't post a lot and write huge paragraphs.
Then there is "printer explode" hint that relates to Yellow Ink which inevitably going to be brought up at a point and I want to address it now. We need to be rational here. Would Flamewheel give a hint that is so apparent? Heck he might as well say:
"Flamewheel was hit by the lightning as the eclipse passes by."
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Been reading up on the thread. I think I'm going to vote for Darth, just because yellowink is too suspicious to me. Gonna explain my exact reasons when I get back from work.
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On June 04 2010 14:50 DCLXVI wrote:
DarthTheinAn:
He has had a very neutral opinion on most subjects and has argued peacefully. This has caused many people to believe he is a townie, and he is riding this good vibe to an office. Somewhat suspicious how several people voted for him already, some who have not even explained their reasons for doing so. He seems coolheaded and collected at least, not one to make hasty decisions or jump at people's throats.
either calm and cool townie or smart and calm mafia
Seems like a lot of people have played a game with DarthTheinAn before and perhaps connect some patterns. I wouldn`t consider it too suspicious to be fair. He also is cool-headed as you`ve mentioned so this probably makes people lean towards voting him. No clues can be connected right now, could be a good or a bad thing.
On one hand YellowInk`s logic is appealing to me and probably everyone else, on the other however he`s got nothing to lose considering it would be hard to resist checking him with such an obvious clue (or not) and tries to stir things a little before getting lynched one way or the other (being elected mayor first the more profitable scenario for mafia). I think a vote towards YellowInk could be risky.
That being said I think I have no idea who to vote.  I`ll read up some more on other candidates once I get more time.
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Thread appears to have shut down for the night, so I will as well - see you all tomorrow!
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EPT
