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On May 29 2010 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 19:48 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:45 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:40 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:31 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:25 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:19 Nytefish wrote:
[quote]
What are we even arguing about?
you said some really boneheaded stuff about how a hydra bust goes down and now i'm telling you what a silly child you are, of course don't mind me, i'm just a hater. fo real about the boneheadedness though, i pray you're not a zerg player! I was talking more about what he could do rather than what he should do. When I listed those options earlier I didn't mean to imply they were all equal and valid choices in every situation. whats the point of that? you might as well have included "send your hydras to the corner of the map and do nothing" to the list. its only slightly worse than putting half your hydras on the bunker and the other half on the scvs The difference is all those options can work in given scenarios. I said half because there's no point overkilling the SCVs, you might as well have the rest of your hydras shooting the bunker to make him want to keep them there repairing it. treating bw as a series of imaginary scenarios only works if those scenarios have some sort of logical basis you are trying (or tried to in your original post) justify a tremendously stupid work of micro by saying it was 'just one of many options & his mentality dictated that he chose this one'. that's BONEHEADED I wasn't trying to justify a mistake, just trying to figure out the thought process behind it. You seem to have this impression that I'm trying to say mistakes like that are acceptable, that's probably miscommunication from me earlier. i'm trying to make you a better poster here. it's still an entirely meaningless statement. when you try to figure out the thought process behind a stupid move, you're just creating scenarios in your head where you figure a guy might do the stupid move in question. the problem with that is it's still a stupid move, so what does the thought process behind it matter? you could have posted something about how you figure jaedong probably made 3 hatcheries instead of 2 because a fortune teller told him 3 was his lucky number and the statement would have just as much substance as your hypothetical hydra bust checklist Because he did the stupid decision so I'm relating it to the games I've played where something similar has happened. I can see that it was dumb in that particular game, but it doesn't always turn out that badly. thank you for admitting you are drawing on your own experiences making stupid decisions. realize what a vast disconnect there is between your experiences in these situations, and jaedong's. now your post also could have read, "jaedong could have won if he went guardians after his hydra bust failed"
Yes it was a mistake to talk as if I was trying to state fact rather than what my own limited knowledge devised, but I was typing it out quickly and didn't have time to add disclaimers onto the end of every single post.
Anyway what I posted is true at least up to whatever rank I got to, so take from that what you will. I'm not trying to advise progamers on how to hydra bust lol.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:54 Nytefish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 19:52 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:48 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:45 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:40 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:33 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:31 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:27 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On May 29 2010 19:25 Nytefish wrote:On May 29 2010 19:21 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
you said some really boneheaded stuff about how a hydra bust goes down and now i'm telling you what a silly child you are, of course
don't mind me, i'm just a hater. fo real about the boneheadedness though, i pray you're not a zerg player! I was talking more about what he could do rather than what he should do. When I listed those options earlier I didn't mean to imply they were all equal and valid choices in every situation. whats the point of that? you might as well have included "send your hydras to the corner of the map and do nothing" to the list. its only slightly worse than putting half your hydras on the bunker and the other half on the scvs The difference is all those options can work in given scenarios. I said half because there's no point overkilling the SCVs, you might as well have the rest of your hydras shooting the bunker to make him want to keep them there repairing it. treating bw as a series of imaginary scenarios only works if those scenarios have some sort of logical basis you are trying (or tried to in your original post) justify a tremendously stupid work of micro by saying it was 'just one of many options & his mentality dictated that he chose this one'. that's BONEHEADED I wasn't trying to justify a mistake, just trying to figure out the thought process behind it. You seem to have this impression that I'm trying to say mistakes like that are acceptable, that's probably miscommunication from me earlier. i'm trying to make you a better poster here. it's still an entirely meaningless statement. when you try to figure out the thought process behind a stupid move, you're just creating scenarios in your head where you figure a guy might do the stupid move in question. the problem with that is it's still a stupid move, so what does the thought process behind it matter? you could have posted something about how you figure jaedong probably made 3 hatcheries instead of 2 because a fortune teller told him 3 was his lucky number and the statement would have just as much substance as your hypothetical hydra bust checklist Because he did the stupid decision so I'm relating it to the games I've played where something similar has happened. I can see that it was dumb in that particular game, but it doesn't always turn out that badly. thank you for admitting you are drawing on your own experiences making stupid decisions. realize what a vast disconnect there is between your experiences in these situations, and jaedong's. now your post also could have read, "jaedong could have won if he went guardians after his hydra bust failed" Yes it was a mistake to talk as if I was trying to state fact rather than what my own limited knowledge devised, but I was typing it out quickly and didn't have time to add disclaimers onto the end of every single post.
huzzah, i've won the day. hopefully everyone remembers my victory on this day instead of flash's
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Too bad you won against a nobody who was being polite and humble in the first place  .
(of course this is just loser making excuses xD)
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On May 29 2010 19:57 Nytefish wrote:Too bad you won against a nobody who was being polite and humble in the first place . (of course this is just loser making excuses xD)
it's cool, its +1 for me and statistics are EVERYTHING in bw
edit: sorry for trollin in your blog hotbid. feel free to heckle everyone who posts in mine
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On May 29 2010 19:32 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 19:28 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:13 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:10 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:06 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:04 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 18:52 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 18:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
jaedong's builds were TERRIBLE i was giggling pretty hard in set 3
effort best zerg now i guess? lolol I did not even dream of saying this with a straight face just four weeks ago, but this month, Effort's the best Zerg on the planet. We saw how horribly Effort failed once he was gunned by everyone. Jaedong has been dealing with it ever since he replaced Savior as the best gamer on the planet. Jaedong used to be so ahead of the pack in terms of micromanagement and multitasking skills, that these skills alone won him a lot of games, but these days that's sadly no longer the case. We'll see how Effort deals with every other gamer around throwing every trick up their sleave in the book in order to bring him down now that he is in the spotlight again. If he survives that, then we can talk. Note how I said "this month." You really going to argue with that? Who was better this month? Effort's only two losses came in the OSL Finals. I thought you held Effort in higher regard than simply settling for him being the "flavour of the month". Even I expect more things from the kid, and I say that as someone who is more into Zero. What did you want me to say? That this proves that Effort is somehow better than Jaedong for the past two years? That's just stupid. Of course JD is the most accomplished and best Zerg in the history of StarCraft. I just think its hilarious that people were discounting Effort's win as a "fluke" when we're clearly dealing with players (Flash, JD, Effort, etc) who are capable of beating each other in Bo5s. Right now though, Effort's better than JD, at least in ZvT. It's been a long time since we've been able to say a Z is better than JD at any of the three MUs. It's been for quite some time now that the likes of Effort and Zero can literally play comparetively to Jaedong's absolute peak skill level. I was mistaken for thinking that you were basically predicting the ascension of Effort as the next big thing in Starcraft; something that I believe he is perfectly capable of being. The thing is. It is easy (relatively speaking of course) to look great when things are going great for you, and everything is working out. Effort has both the mechanics and trickery to defeat Flash, and has shown that this month (something Jaedong totally failed in). However, what I feel like you are doing is "cashing-in" on Effort the moment he looked like the superior zerg in comparison with Jaedong. Surely a fan such as yourself could have the faith in Effort to survive the oncoming onslaught, struggle through come rain or shine, and STILL look like the greatest zerg around, rather than taking a somewhat cheap shot at the greatest zerg around in the scene when he has just taken a low blow. Since when is stating the obvious a "cheap shot." I think its funny you view my blog as taking a shot at JD when its actually validating Effort's win. It has nothing to do with insulting JD. Have you read my article on JD? I'm not a blind fanboy. I know Effort is not the second coming of JD. There probably will never be one, just like there was never a second Boxer. But what I do know is the best player from my favorite team rose from a horrible slump after the worst betrayal of CJ and its fans ever, and won the OSL. There was mass whining about how he didn't deserve it, and he played "cheesy" or it was a fluke, or Flash just handed it to him. And to watch Flash one week later kick the crap out of JD after Effort helped him practice... well that's pretty cool.
It feels like a cheap shot, because you know and I know the actual skill level (be it micromanagement, multitasking skills or in-game intuition) between the top level players is paper-thin. That's why we see so much risks being taken, because the players need it in order to win. The days of Jaedong taking everything Bisu could throw at him, and still coming up on top, or deconstructing Flash with his superhuman Hive play on Loki 2 are long gone, BUT, Jaedong has shown incredible longetivity as the top dog around, the likes of which is somewhat remeniscent to Nada. Effort outsmarted Flash, but we know that it took a little bit of luck on his side. We all know Flash had luck in his side, because there were some glaring holes in his play in order to come out ahead that he would have never made against a lesser opponent. In the end, results are results, but it irks me when Effort fans try to crown their prince the moment Jaedong falls to Flash. I don't deny it, but I feel like it sells both Jaedong and Effort short.
Jaedong has been pretty much there regardless of the map balance, the opponent, his personal biorhythm and the ever fickle-lady luck. Picking THIS moment, like you expect Effort to fall short in comparison with Jaedong (not neccessarily just his past accolades) later on, irks me. It feels wrong to compare to two even the situation is pretty much screaming for it... I don't know... maybe I'm just fucking pissed off.
I want to see a zerg that deals with every terran gayness there is in the book, and just stomps them to the ground for being the pussies they are. I'd be more than happy to settle for that zerg being Effort. We both know that he isn't there yet. Jaedong's game style isn't suited for that kind of play, and his astounding mechanical advantage over others is a thing of the past... FUCK... I'm just ranting... just go ahead and celebrate... I personally feel that you are selling Effort somewhat short if you think this will be the highlight of his career.
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Baltimore, USA22247 Posts
I feel like you write a lot without making any actual points -_-
Made worse because I think you're actually agreeing with everything HB has said but just... not agreeing?
Maybe it's just too late/early.
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On May 29 2010 20:07 EvilTeletubby wrote:I feel like you write a lot without making any actual points -_- Made worse because I think you're actually agreeing with everything HB has said but just... not agreeing? Maybe it's just too late/early.
I'm rambling because I'm pissed off. I saw Effort>Jaedong and instantly switched to psycho-babble mode. Gonna stop now.
Just one thing.
I just want anyone who is a firm supporter of Effort to show a little restraint when trying to pick this moment to compare the two players. It's unfair for both players. We already know Effort can play better than Jaedong on any given day. Hell, he's been capable of doing it since last year. I know it's the first time he's shown it on the highest stage, but don't sell him short by celebrating like it'll be his last time. Whatever, I'm probably not making any sense at all.
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Braavos36362 Posts
On May 29 2010 20:01 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 19:32 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:28 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:13 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:10 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:06 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:04 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 18:52 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 18:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
jaedong's builds were TERRIBLE i was giggling pretty hard in set 3
effort best zerg now i guess? lolol I did not even dream of saying this with a straight face just four weeks ago, but this month, Effort's the best Zerg on the planet. We saw how horribly Effort failed once he was gunned by everyone. Jaedong has been dealing with it ever since he replaced Savior as the best gamer on the planet. Jaedong used to be so ahead of the pack in terms of micromanagement and multitasking skills, that these skills alone won him a lot of games, but these days that's sadly no longer the case. We'll see how Effort deals with every other gamer around throwing every trick up their sleave in the book in order to bring him down now that he is in the spotlight again. If he survives that, then we can talk. Note how I said "this month." You really going to argue with that? Who was better this month? Effort's only two losses came in the OSL Finals. I thought you held Effort in higher regard than simply settling for him being the "flavour of the month". Even I expect more things from the kid, and I say that as someone who is more into Zero. What did you want me to say? That this proves that Effort is somehow better than Jaedong for the past two years? That's just stupid. Of course JD is the most accomplished and best Zerg in the history of StarCraft. I just think its hilarious that people were discounting Effort's win as a "fluke" when we're clearly dealing with players (Flash, JD, Effort, etc) who are capable of beating each other in Bo5s. Right now though, Effort's better than JD, at least in ZvT. It's been a long time since we've been able to say a Z is better than JD at any of the three MUs. It's been for quite some time now that the likes of Effort and Zero can literally play comparetively to Jaedong's absolute peak skill level. I was mistaken for thinking that you were basically predicting the ascension of Effort as the next big thing in Starcraft; something that I believe he is perfectly capable of being. The thing is. It is easy (relatively speaking of course) to look great when things are going great for you, and everything is working out. Effort has both the mechanics and trickery to defeat Flash, and has shown that this month (something Jaedong totally failed in). However, what I feel like you are doing is "cashing-in" on Effort the moment he looked like the superior zerg in comparison with Jaedong. Surely a fan such as yourself could have the faith in Effort to survive the oncoming onslaught, struggle through come rain or shine, and STILL look like the greatest zerg around, rather than taking a somewhat cheap shot at the greatest zerg around in the scene when he has just taken a low blow. Since when is stating the obvious a "cheap shot." I think its funny you view my blog as taking a shot at JD when its actually validating Effort's win. It has nothing to do with insulting JD. Have you read my article on JD? I'm not a blind fanboy. I know Effort is not the second coming of JD. There probably will never be one, just like there was never a second Boxer. But what I do know is the best player from my favorite team rose from a horrible slump after the worst betrayal of CJ and its fans ever, and won the OSL. There was mass whining about how he didn't deserve it, and he played "cheesy" or it was a fluke, or Flash just handed it to him. And to watch Flash one week later kick the crap out of JD after Effort helped him practice... well that's pretty cool. It feels like a cheap shot, because you know and I know the actual skill level (be it micromanagement, multitasking skills or in-game intuition) between the top level players is paper-thin. That's why we see so much risks being taken, because the players need it in order to win. The days of Jaedong taking everything Bisu could throw at him, and still coming up on top, or deconstructing Flash with his superhuman Hive play on Loki 2 are long gone, BUT, Jaedong has shown incredible longetivity as the top dog around, the likes of which is somewhat remeniscent to Nada. Effort outsmarted Flash, but we know that it took a little bit of luck on his side. We all know Flash had luck in his side, because there were some glaring holes in his play in order to come out ahead that he would have never made against a lesser opponent. In the end, results are results, but it irks me when Effort fans try to crown their prince the moment Jaedong falls to Flash. I don't deny it, but I feel like it sells both Jaedong and Effort short. Jaedong has been pretty much there regardless of the map balance, the opponent, his personal biorhythm and the ever fickle-lady luck. Picking THIS moment, like you expect Effort to fall short in comparison with Jaedong (not neccessarily just his past accolades) later on, irks me. It feels wrong to compare to two even the situation is pretty much screaming for it... I don't know... maybe I'm just fucking pissed off. I want to see a zerg that deals with every terran gayness there is in the book, and just stomps them to the ground for being the pussies they are. I'd be more than happy to settle for that zerg being Effort. We both know that he isn't there yet. Jaedong's game style isn't suited for that kind of play, and his astounding mechanical advantage over others is a thing of the past... FUCK... I'm just ranting... just go ahead and celebrate... I personally feel that you are selling Effort somewhat short if you think this will be the highlight of his career.
First, I have nothing against JD, I just used the MSL finals as a way to stick it to those Flash fans who tried so hard to belittle what Effort did.
I don't think I'm selling Effort short at all.
- His mentor and best player on CJ betrayed the entire team and him in a cheating scandal
- He slumped ridiculously badly (like 9 straight losses ZvT right before)
- He had an equipment malfunction and a ridiculous marathon tiebreaker
- He faced the best PvZ atm (Kal) and 3-0s him
- He then faces a player many say is the best ever, who just made consecutive double finals
- He was losing 0-2 and came back 3-2 in the most prestigious tourney finals
I don't think many things top that. Five weeks ago I was wondering if Effort would make the Ro16 let alone win the finals in such a manner.
I think it's ok to just be happy about this instead of somehow wanting Effort to win more titles immediately.
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On May 29 2010 18:48 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 18:47 Skvid wrote:
Partially outplayed, partially bad decision making by JD. I guess the pressure of the finals did its toll on him.
Anyways GG's Any win by any player will partially rely on mistakes by his opponent.
Yeah I'm getting pretty tired that people just keep on saying "player X didnt really win, player Y just lost" and "player x only won because player Y played terrible"
Just like effort only beat Kal because Kal failed and because ZvP is imba, not because effort played well.
Even in this series where JD had some very questionable decisionmaking in game 3 I'm, as a JD fan, not afraid to say that flash simply outplayed JD and fully deserved the win.
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Braavos36362 Posts
in game 3 jaedong broke down mentally and played on tilt after losing the first two games. if you and i and every fan could see that such a hydra break wouldn't work (the second and third times jd tried to break), why was jd so intent on forcing it?
i feel jd did not have a lot of mental strength this series. its very difficult to come back from 2-0 down, it requires a huge amount of balls and willpower to do what effort did in the osl finals, especially against someone as strong as flash.
i feel this psychological aspect, which is huge in SC (think about all the practice bonjwas who fail on TV), got sorely overlooked in these two finals. all the idiots saying "stupid 3 game cheese win" completely ignore that its almost impossibly difficult to pull it off down 0-2.
edit: to all the jd fans, this doesn't mean i believe jd is weak mentally, i just mean he failed psychologically under pressure this time because he really did have a good chance in game 3 even after the first failed attack. he came back from 1-0 down many times, he just didn't have it this time.
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On May 29 2010 20:13 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 18:48 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 18:47 Skvid wrote:
Partially outplayed, partially bad decision making by JD. I guess the pressure of the finals did its toll on him.
Anyways GG's Any win by any player will partially rely on mistakes by his opponent. Yeah I'm getting pretty tired that people just keep on saying "player X didnt really win, player Y just lost" and "player x only won because player Y played terrible" Just like effort only beat Kal because Kal failed and because ZvP is imba, not because effort played well. Even in this series where JD had some very questionable decisionmaking in game 3 I'm, as a JD fan, not afraid to say that flash simply outplayed JD and fully deserved the win.
Yeah the discussion got sidetracked a lot about how JD's hydra bust was done badly. But I was quite surprised how fast Flash got seige mode research out, it seemed like he started it far before seeing the mass hydras.
Or maybe the exciting situation distorted my interpretation of time, did anyone catch when he started the research?
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On May 29 2010 20:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
i feel this psychological aspect, which is huge in SC (think about all the practice bonjwas who fail on TV), got sorely overlooked in these two finals. all the idiots saying "stupid 3 game cheese win" completely ignore that its almost impossibly difficult to pull it off down 0-2.
People tend to over look a lot of the aspects of the game. You frequently see people in live report threads complaining about how so and so is playing terribly, they're usually judging 99% on the micro that is happening on the screen. "omg flash lost a vessel to scourge, he's playing horribly"
It's also quite ridiculous how judgemental people are of player's builds even though they have no idea of what kind of build order guessing might be going on. "player x is so dumb for going that build, of course player y will suspect it".
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well he never got mines so it was the first thing he researched.
yeah you're right Hot_Bid.
I mean we all know that Jaedong is usually very strong mentally, just look at the OSL finals vs fantasy but this time I guess Flash's bonwjalike image and the way he lost game 1 and 2 must have gotten to him.
Really does make me appreciate effort's accomplishment even more.
On May 29 2010 20:22 Nytefish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 20:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
i feel this psychological aspect, which is huge in SC (think about all the practice bonjwas who fail on TV), got sorely overlooked in these two finals. all the idiots saying "stupid 3 game cheese win" completely ignore that its almost impossibly difficult to pull it off down 0-2.
People tend to over look a lot of the aspects of the game. You frequently see people in live report threads complaining about how so and so is playing terribly, they're usually judging 99% on the micro that is happening on the screen. "omg flash lost a vessel to scourge, he's playing horribly" It's also quite ridiculous how judgemental people are of player's builds even though they have no idea of what kind of build order guessing might be going on. "player x is so dumb for going that build, of course player y will suspect it".
Amen to that
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On May 29 2010 20:13 Hot_Bid wrote:- He faced the best PvZ atm (Kal) and 3-0s him
Link
Waa?
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On May 29 2010 20:13 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 20:01 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:32 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:28 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:13 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:10 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 19:06 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 19:04 Letmelose wrote:On May 29 2010 18:52 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 29 2010 18:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
jaedong's builds were TERRIBLE i was giggling pretty hard in set 3
effort best zerg now i guess? lolol I did not even dream of saying this with a straight face just four weeks ago, but this month, Effort's the best Zerg on the planet. We saw how horribly Effort failed once he was gunned by everyone. Jaedong has been dealing with it ever since he replaced Savior as the best gamer on the planet. Jaedong used to be so ahead of the pack in terms of micromanagement and multitasking skills, that these skills alone won him a lot of games, but these days that's sadly no longer the case. We'll see how Effort deals with every other gamer around throwing every trick up their sleave in the book in order to bring him down now that he is in the spotlight again. If he survives that, then we can talk. Note how I said "this month." You really going to argue with that? Who was better this month? Effort's only two losses came in the OSL Finals. I thought you held Effort in higher regard than simply settling for him being the "flavour of the month". Even I expect more things from the kid, and I say that as someone who is more into Zero. What did you want me to say? That this proves that Effort is somehow better than Jaedong for the past two years? That's just stupid. Of course JD is the most accomplished and best Zerg in the history of StarCraft. I just think its hilarious that people were discounting Effort's win as a "fluke" when we're clearly dealing with players (Flash, JD, Effort, etc) who are capable of beating each other in Bo5s. Right now though, Effort's better than JD, at least in ZvT. It's been a long time since we've been able to say a Z is better than JD at any of the three MUs. It's been for quite some time now that the likes of Effort and Zero can literally play comparetively to Jaedong's absolute peak skill level. I was mistaken for thinking that you were basically predicting the ascension of Effort as the next big thing in Starcraft; something that I believe he is perfectly capable of being. The thing is. It is easy (relatively speaking of course) to look great when things are going great for you, and everything is working out. Effort has both the mechanics and trickery to defeat Flash, and has shown that this month (something Jaedong totally failed in). However, what I feel like you are doing is "cashing-in" on Effort the moment he looked like the superior zerg in comparison with Jaedong. Surely a fan such as yourself could have the faith in Effort to survive the oncoming onslaught, struggle through come rain or shine, and STILL look like the greatest zerg around, rather than taking a somewhat cheap shot at the greatest zerg around in the scene when he has just taken a low blow. Since when is stating the obvious a "cheap shot." I think its funny you view my blog as taking a shot at JD when its actually validating Effort's win. It has nothing to do with insulting JD. Have you read my article on JD? I'm not a blind fanboy. I know Effort is not the second coming of JD. There probably will never be one, just like there was never a second Boxer. But what I do know is the best player from my favorite team rose from a horrible slump after the worst betrayal of CJ and its fans ever, and won the OSL. There was mass whining about how he didn't deserve it, and he played "cheesy" or it was a fluke, or Flash just handed it to him. And to watch Flash one week later kick the crap out of JD after Effort helped him practice... well that's pretty cool. It feels like a cheap shot, because you know and I know the actual skill level (be it micromanagement, multitasking skills or in-game intuition) between the top level players is paper-thin. That's why we see so much risks being taken, because the players need it in order to win. The days of Jaedong taking everything Bisu could throw at him, and still coming up on top, or deconstructing Flash with his superhuman Hive play on Loki 2 are long gone, BUT, Jaedong has shown incredible longetivity as the top dog around, the likes of which is somewhat remeniscent to Nada. Effort outsmarted Flash, but we know that it took a little bit of luck on his side. We all know Flash had luck in his side, because there were some glaring holes in his play in order to come out ahead that he would have never made against a lesser opponent. In the end, results are results, but it irks me when Effort fans try to crown their prince the moment Jaedong falls to Flash. I don't deny it, but I feel like it sells both Jaedong and Effort short. Jaedong has been pretty much there regardless of the map balance, the opponent, his personal biorhythm and the ever fickle-lady luck. Picking THIS moment, like you expect Effort to fall short in comparison with Jaedong (not neccessarily just his past accolades) later on, irks me. It feels wrong to compare to two even the situation is pretty much screaming for it... I don't know... maybe I'm just fucking pissed off. I want to see a zerg that deals with every terran gayness there is in the book, and just stomps them to the ground for being the pussies they are. I'd be more than happy to settle for that zerg being Effort. We both know that he isn't there yet. Jaedong's game style isn't suited for that kind of play, and his astounding mechanical advantage over others is a thing of the past... FUCK... I'm just ranting... just go ahead and celebrate... I personally feel that you are selling Effort somewhat short if you think this will be the highlight of his career. First, I have nothing against JD, I just used the MSL finals as a way to stick it to those Flash fans who tried so hard to belittle what Effort did. I don't think I'm selling Effort short at all. - His mentor and best player on CJ betrayed the entire team and him in a cheating scandal
- He slumped ridiculously badly (like 9 straight losses ZvT right before)
- He had an equipment malfunction and a ridiculous marathon tiebreaker
- He faced the best PvZ atm (Kal) and 3-0s him
- He then faces a player many say is the best ever, who just made consecutive double finals
- He was losing 0-2 and came back 3-2 in the most prestigious tourney finals I don't think many things top that. Five weeks ago I was wondering if Effort would make the Ro16 let alone win the finals in such a manner. I think it's ok to just be happy about this instead of somehow wanting Effort to win more titles immediately.
man, effort must have been downbuzzing hard after all that. he really had it tough for a while, lots of problems coming together at the same time.
whilst im disappointed with jaedong's questionable thinking, im happy that flash got at least one title this season after all the carving he's been doing lately. i think im even happier considering how close he was to winning the osl too, and how bitter it mustve been to lose 3 games in a row
i know that both flash and jd will be back next season. id love to see a 3rd flash v jaedong msl
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EPT
