EPTStork throws out some really unorthodox build sometimes. But they don't always work either. Will there ever be a Stork build?
Edit: fixed...-.-
[WCG] 2009 Final: Days 4 and 5 - Page 119
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
Stork throws out some really unorthodox build sometimes. But they don't always work either. Will there ever be a Stork build? Edit: fixed...-.- | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
Well, I think anyone who plays a bit less "normal" has some chance of getting a popular build that catches on. It's a constantly evolving game, and the forerunner's have generally been those who are willing to draw outside the lines. | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On November 16 2009 11:01 Drunken.Jedi wrote: Actually I don't think that's true. In Starcraft it's a lot easier to get lucky with some cheesy build, so I think that a B/B- players would definitely have a more than 1% win chance against a top pro gamer. In War3 however, cheese is practically non-existant since it's almost impossible to deny scouting and since natural base defense is stronger in relation to army size, so you pretty much have to play a straight up game. There are of course many random things in wc3, but they are usually little things that give either player a slight edge, such as finding a tome of xp versus a different tome, but almost never any really big random factors such as build order choice in a ZvZ. So despite the skill ceiling being a lot lower in war3 (thus making the difference in skill much more pronounced in sc), I'd estimate that a good war3 player would have a slightly lower chance of beating a top pro gamer than your B player has versus Flash. actually moon himself have stated that night elves can't do anything against a tower rush on a two player map and progamers can often stop cheese really easily if they play right by scouting early and such | ||
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JohnBall
Brazil1272 Posts
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weiliem
2050 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 16 2009 11:01 Drunken.Jedi wrote: Actually I don't think that's true. In Starcraft it's a lot easier to get lucky with some cheesy build, so I think that a B/B- players would definitely have a more than 1% win chance against a top pro gamer. In War3 however, cheese is practically non-existant since it's almost impossible to deny scouting and since natural base defense is stronger in relation to army size, so you pretty much have to play a straight up game. There are of course many random things in wc3, but they are usually little things that give either player a slight edge, such as finding a tome of xp versus a different tome, but almost never any really big random factors such as build order choice in a ZvZ. So despite the skill ceiling being a lot lower in war3 (thus making the difference in skill much more pronounced in sc), I'd estimate that a good war3 player would have a slightly lower chance of beating a top pro gamer than your B player has versus Flash. I think you severly underestimate how hard it would actually be to cheese a player of Flash's calibre. First off, he would never ever do stuff like 14 CC if he knew he was playing a vastly inferior opponent. And watch some replays of his; on Destination he sends out his 9th (I think) SCV to scout for proxies in his natural and just outside, and then he sends an SCV a moment afterwards to look for in-base bullshit. He is so on top of his game. | ||
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On November 16 2009 13:58 MuffinDude wrote: actually moon himself have stated that night elves can't do anything against a tower rush on a two player map and progamers can often stop cheese really easily if they play right by scouting early and such against a tower rush well executed by a player around his level. In warcraft 3 is so easy to own players that are worse than you...I dunno like, I can play 200 games with my friends and won`t lose any if I want, and its not the same for sc. (I`m not saying that I`m pro, just that my friends are worse than me  , although not complete noobs.)again, not saying that wc3 is more balanced, just that if the skill difference is visible, u can`t practically lose. | ||
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RRRMz
Russian Federation37 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On November 16 2009 21:09 Jaeden wrote: against a tower rush well executed by a player around his level. In warcraft 3 is so easy to own players that are worse than you...I dunno like, I can play 200 games with my friends and won`t lose any if I want, and its not the same for sc. (I`m not saying that I`m pro, just that my friends are worse than me , although not complete noobs.)again, not saying that wc3 is more balanced, just that if the skill difference is visible, u can`t practically lose. I disagree with this. Earlier in the WC3 pro scene, there were ~80 apm players who would take games off of the very best players, who at the time were at 150-200+ themselves. The APM/skill discussions in the WC3 community have always been more hostile than anything here. Were those 80apm players worse than the best players who were playing twice as fast? Yes. Were the 150-200+ apm players anywhere near double the effective APM, though? No. Now, WC3 has become more refined over the years (creeping patterns and micro tricks), and player APM has increased. However, the game still has hardly evolved in the sense that Starcraft did (more economic builds, more multitask). The game mechanics themselves simply limit having any real macro. If anything, today's players use even smaller armies and less tech than ever before. What all this means is that there are less factors that distinguish your average middle-level player from a progamer. Sure, a player who is fast from years of playing RTS will still fail at having correct micro the first time they play WC3, but after a couple months their game won't look that much different from a pro's. Meanwhile, in Starcraft land, there is a ridiculously huge skill gap in place. Hell, I have friends who I can beat 1v2 100% of the time (on a 4 player map like Andromeda or something), and I'm nowhere near a great SC player. I'm 100% confident I could never take a game off Flash, Jaedong, or Bisu. Not even with all-in builds. In contrast, I remember losing in-house games to clan members who I was much better than back when I played WC3. It didn't happen too often, but the possibility was always there. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On November 16 2009 12:55 dukethegold wrote: The thing is, Bisu busted out into the pro-scene with the Bisu build. He made his career overnight by defeating Savior 3-0 with the Bisu build and opened the era of the 6 dragons. PvZ became the easy matchup for a Protoss who is capable of a well executed Bisu Build. But now the Zergs have learned how to properly react to the Bisu Build and the Terran did not seem to have found their savior in the Fantasy Build. Thus, the Zergs are now thriving. While the Bisu build is still a strong build, unless there is another revolution, Bisu's PvZ record is gonna go down and other Protoss will fall with him. Stork throws out some really unorthodox build sometimes. But they don't always work either. Will there ever be a Stork build? Edit: fixed...-.- That's because ZvP and PvT essentially are unbalanced matchups, where protoss and terran respectively need to come up with some spectacular short term strategical solutions in order to dominate. | ||
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Weaponx3
Canada232 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
The atmosphere overall in the "stadium" was great too. The crowd sounded like some football stadium crowd or something. | ||
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venture
United States3 Posts
Also just to let you guys all know Clan eX @ US east server has tourny's every saturday night at 11pm eastern time, 1st place is 100$ 2nd place is 25$, be sure to sign up, but be ready to play B+/A gamers!!! | ||
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On November 17 2009 12:49 venture wrote: this will be a nice tourny Also just to let you guys all know Clan eX @ US east server has tourny's every saturday night at 11pm eastern time, 1st place is 100$ 2nd place is 25$, be sure to sign up, but be ready to play B+/A gamers!!! Wtf? This has nothing to do with the thread... you probably shouldn' mindless advertise like a douche. | ||
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Louder
United States2276 Posts
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arb
Noobville17919 Posts
On November 16 2009 13:58 MuffinDude wrote: actually moon himself have stated that night elves can't do anything against a tower rush on a two player map and progamers can often stop cheese really easily if they play right by scouting early and such it wouldnt be a problem if wisps werent pussies  | ||
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