EPT[WCG] 2009 Final: Days 4 and 5 - Page 117
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Dark.Carnival
United States5095 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On November 15 2009 18:37 Holgerius wrote: ROFL. A friend of mine once argued that WC3 was just as mechanically demanding to play as SC. Guess he was wrong. :D Cant really compare the two really. Its not like you run out of stuff to do in either. If all you have to do is micro mostly, you gotta be goddamn precise at it, and expect your opponent to be that too. Starcraft is much more entertaining game though | ||
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FireS
Romania415 Posts
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
On November 15 2009 23:25 FireS wrote: are the VODs for SC finals up somewhere? can't seem to find them yet... Links to the Sets | ||
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FireS
Romania415 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 15 2009 22:30 JohannesH wrote: Cant really compare the two really. Its not like you run out of stuff to do in either. If all you have to do is micro mostly, you gotta be goddamn precise at it, and expect your opponent to be that too. Starcraft is much more entertaining game though I'm not saying that WC3 is easy or doesn't take any skill, I have never actually played the game. But we were talking about the pure mechanics; APM requirements, multitasking and such. So when someone says ''they don't need to macro as they try to stay under 50 food'', that tells me that my friend was wrong. | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
On November 15 2009 23:50 Holgerius wrote: I'm not saying that WC3 is easy or doesn't take any skill, I have never actually played the game. But we were talking about the pure mechanics; APM requirements, multitasking and such. So when someone says ''they don't need to macro as they try to stay under 50 food'', that tells me that my friend was wrong. If you're talking about APM requirements and multitasking, War3 is about as rigorous as SC is. Where SC requires macro and large army management, War3 requires individual unit management and spellcasting (to a larger scale than SC requires). Where SC requires multitasking in the form of macro, War3 requires multitasking in the form of managing creeps and individual units to ensure minimum deaths. Where SC requires resource management in making sure you always build units, War3 requires it in the form of buying items and managing upkeep. Because of the hero mechanic (experience) and small army sizes, no (using this with a grain of salt because this isn't always true) unit is expendable in War3 - even lowly tier 1 units will give your opponent experience. Compare this to Starcraft, where the loss of one Zergling/Marine/Zealot is negligible in comparison. | ||
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Mowse
South Africa56 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 16 2009 00:35 scintilliaSD wrote: If you're talking about APM requirements and multitasking, War3 is about as rigorous as SC is. Where SC requires macro and large army management, War3 requires individual unit management and spellcasting (to a larger scale than SC requires). Where SC requires multitasking in the form of macro, War3 requires multitasking in the form of managing creeps and individual units to ensure minimum deaths. Where SC requires resource management in making sure you always build units, War3 requires it in the form of buying items and managing upkeep. Because of the hero mechanic (experience) and small army sizes, no (using this with a grain of salt because this isn't always true) unit is expendable in War3 - even lowly tier 1 units will give your opponent experience. Compare this to Starcraft, where the loss of one Zergling/Marine/Zealot is negligible in comparison. As I said I have never played the game and am therefore pretty much talking out of my ass, but that does not sound nearly as demanding to me. So I just checked out an FPVOD of a top player (Grubby) and compared it to an FPVOD of a top SC player (JD), and the difference in APM and multitasking seems pretty huge in my eyes. | ||
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520
United States2822 Posts
On November 16 2009 00:56 Holgerius wrote: As I said I have never played the game and am therefore pretty much talking out of my ass, but that does not sound nearly as demanding to me. So I just checked out an FPVOD of a top player (Grubby) and compared it to an FPVOD of a top SC player (JD), and the difference in APM and multitasking seems pretty huge in my eyes. Well JD is notoriously fast and Orc is pretty much the Protoss of War3 so... | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On November 16 2009 00:35 scintilliaSD wrote: If you're talking about APM requirements and multitasking, War3 is about as rigorous as SC is. Where SC requires macro and large army management, War3 requires individual unit management and spellcasting (to a larger scale than SC requires). Where SC requires multitasking in the form of macro, War3 requires multitasking in the form of managing creeps and individual units to ensure minimum deaths. Where SC requires resource management in making sure you always build units, War3 requires it in the form of buying items and managing upkeep. Because of the hero mechanic (experience) and small army sizes, no (using this with a grain of salt because this isn't always true) unit is expendable in War3 - even lowly tier 1 units will give your opponent experience. Compare this to Starcraft, where the loss of one Zergling/Marine/Zealot is negligible in comparison. Except you're completely wrong. Not about what you have to do in War3 but exactly how rigorous you think it is. SC alone becomes more difficult to manage on the simple basis that War3 rarely ever goes past 2 base play and most of the time it's only one base play. In SC there are plenty of times you're managing 4 bases + 10 macro buildings + a very rapidly increasing army size + everything else you need to worry about. Yes War3 requires hero management and individual units are worth more but then War3 is pretty much a pure micro game...there is really no macro involved in it. SC requires both. War3 is a great game but in terms of pure APM and Multitasking it doesn't begin to touch starcraft at all...the things you talk about are just much easier to deal with because SC has all of that just on a much larger scale. Individual units in SC begin to matter more as your skill increases. Now on a strategy standpoint? War3 is probably slightly more complicated due to all the heroes and unit abilities...but not on the APM/Multitask side. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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520
United States2822 Posts
On November 16 2009 01:33 Holgerius wrote: Ya, please note that I'm not saying WC3 is a simple game that requires no skills or anything. I've just gotten the perception that the physical aspect of it is not comparable to that of SC. I agree with you there. I think that War3's focus on strategy and efficiency (in addition to a relatively stagnant map pool among other factors) is what causes War3 players to be at the top of their game for longer. | ||
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UbRi
Italy603 Posts
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
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tirentu
Canada1257 Posts
On November 15 2009 18:32 tree.hugger wrote: Seriously considering trying to get to LA next year- it surely won't be as amazingly well-attended as this WCG, but surely it will be an exciting event. I intend to become gosu at a cellphone game so WCG Canada will send me there free of charge. Seems to work for a lot of other people..... | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
@Holgerius, yeah I never knew the extent of people that were willing to go to WCG, it really opens my eyes to the increased popularity of video games in general | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
Starcraft players who switch to WC3 might be confused by many aspects of the game and unsure of what to do, but please do not mix that up with demanding mechanics. You just need to realize that the important things to do in SC are nearly the complete opposite of the important things to do in WC3. Once you know what you need to do (this is key in any game), you'll find that there is a lot less to WC3 than you might originally think. Hell, the biggest problem I remember having was trying to keep my APM steady throughout the game, because there were so few points in which you actually could benefit from being at your max. The macro takes no time at all, you have more than enough control groups to cover everything you need, and hotkeys can even be changed to an easier layout. | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On November 16 2009 03:06 QibingZero wrote: The mechanics between the games are not even close, honestly. Even in your average WC3 battle, the mechanics are nowhere near as demanding as SC is once it gets past the 5 minute mark. Having played both extensively, I can tell you that you don't need to be any faster than your average C player mechanically to be a top WC3 player. Now, you do need to be extremely precise, but the vast majority of the skill in WC3 is not mechanics - it's all in micro-based decisions, overall game sense, and creeping patterns. Starcraft players who switch to WC3 might be confused by many aspects of the game and unsure of what to do, but please do not mix that up with demanding mechanics. You just need to realize that the important things to do in SC are nearly the complete opposite of the important things to do in WC3. Once you know what you need to do (this is key in any game), you'll find that there is a lot less to WC3 than you might originally think. Hell, the biggest problem I remember having was trying to keep my APM steady throughout the game, because there were so few points in which you actually could benefit from being at your max. The macro takes no time at all, you have more than enough control groups to cover everything you need, and hotkeys can even be changed to an easier layout. Do you think its better this way? I mean about player hand speed being less important. I guess it means that more people physically can compete at a high level, instead of a blessed few with tons of fast-twitch muscles in their hands. | ||
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