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On April 27 2009 09:57 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 09:15 Malongo wrote:On April 27 2009 06:04 Qatol wrote:On April 26 2009 22:36 mikeymoo wrote:
Regarding Monoxide, I can let the town know this (I know him irl, but we don't live in the same city anymore).
He was done finals a couple days ago, and had the whole of yesterday to post. I'm pretty sure he's reading the thread, as he keeps asking me over msn if I've read mafia or how the game is going etc etc.
In previous discussions I've had with him, he tells me how OP mafia is, and how easy it would be to win with red alignment. His mind games are very strong, so although he's not posting, he's both a liability and an asset (depending on his alignment, obviously).
If he checks TL, it's probably in the afternoon at his time, so in roughly 6 hours I'd imagine. I shot him a PM to tell him to get active and explain himself, essentially. I think I played one game with him and he never asked how the game was going or what not. He wasn't mafia that game.
I don't think the evidence is insurmountable, but it's something to keep in mind.
At this point in time, I'd lean towards behaviour analysis moreso than clue analysis. I'd like to call attention to this post and emphasize that the case against Monoxide is not only clue-related, but also STRONGLY behavioral-related. I'm willing to follow mikeymoo's lead on this one. He is a smart, well-known player who is risking his own reputation to call out a friend who is acting strangely. That is good enough for me when combined with the other evidence compiled.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that right now we have more suspects than we can handle. Versatile, Monoxide, JeeJee, and Quickstriker are all strong suspects. This points to us using a double lynch on day 3 without even considering that we may have additional suspects by then. This is the worst bullshit ive read from you all game. Period. Dont Vote double lynch. I made a post 2 pages back explaining why we MUST SAVE THEM. Our "suspects" are not even remotely confirmed, and the double lynchs is one of the few things that the town has. Read my post, Please. One more note: Given the history in the previous mafia game and some pms we interchanged then im looking at you with crying eyes, because you agreed that game that the first bad move from the town was using a double lynch without confirmed targets. Im serious, Qatol you just started looking mafia to me. In the future, please PM the person first before calling them out like this. If the private response isn't acceptable, you have that much more ammo to accuse them with.
The real fact that i consider you a very good player tells me this is not a "mistake". I already pmd you and you should know what im talking about.
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I have no proof that qatol is mafia but this is not helping the town at all, sorry.
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First of all, before I begin my suspicions, I'd like to apologize for my absence over the past several days. I had thought that I would have access to the Internet on Thursday, but I did not. I was away at a Speech & Debate Tournament. Therefore, I'm not fully synced up with the goings on in the town (I'm on page 23), but I will be soon.
On a side note, I'd like to make it explicitly clear that these ideas are not meant to point fingers; rather, they are observations that I have come across while reading through everyone's posts. If there are any flaws in them, tell me. Dialogues and discussions do far more to help us win than do preaches. Of course, this lack of explanation that I have noticed could also mean that a private circle has begun to form, and, once more, I'm not part of it, so I may not be reading into people's behavior accurately for that reason, either.
Also, while reading this post bear in mind that human behavior cannot be read accurately without a doubt over the Internet. I've been saying this far too frequently over the past several games, but it seems that no one has listened to me. Any person can manipulate what he has to say or wants to convey with preparation, and this indirect communication allows him to do just that. Therefore, judging someone based on one or two posts alone is not sufficient, I feel, in claiming that, behaviorally speaking, they're in the mafia.
And also, don't forget what analysis is. It's not just listing things. It's far more complex.
Look at what Caller had said before.
"By the way, the "pressing into eyes" reminds me of the coins from the Boondock Saints, the coins of passage across the Styx."
This actually seems like a legitimate point. But I think you're missing the point here. The mafioso is over the guy's dead body. And he's placing something into his eyes. What can it be? It'd make sense if it's a coin, for then the dead fusiondf could find himself resting in peace being transported to Hades. Then we can go on with that. But it's pointless, for what if it's not a coin? The ambiguity of the phrase "pressing into eyes," linguistically speaking, conveys an importance on the ACTION OF RETURNING, and NOT on the WHATEVER HE'S PRESSING INTO THE EYES. That's absolutely crucial. We never learn HOW the mafia killed fusiondf. Not once is it mentioned. He's simply dead. And the mafioso's still there. He's leaning over his body, and he's adjusting it (he's pressing something into his eyes). That's significant, for it tells us the only thing his death can that would lead us to the mafioso. He's remorseful. Now, the author says, "Over the body of fusiondf." Unless the writer is Scaramanga (who I know is an awful, often incoherent author), this is intentional. If he were alive, then the author would/should have said, "over fusiondf." That's the only way this analysis, at least the only way I can see, can be illegitimate, and to assume that the creator of the post actually recognizes the necessity of word-choice (that is to say, the importance of a quality of expression) is, unfortunately, far too presumptuous. I'm not providing a name because I'd prefer just to leave with a profile. Choosing a player and then finding clue that link to him are irresponsible, although, when playing in a group of 50 players, it seems that that is often the only way to designate a mafia. This lack of faith in the author is reinforced when we look later: "Before he could turn around bockit head was slammed into the juke box over and over till he died." That's really bad writing. You don't have to slam someone's head into a juke box "over and over" to kill them. The fact that he's saying "until he died" leads me to think that he's actually slamming the head for quite some time. But wait, that can mean one of two things: firstly, Bockit isn't really a human (or he's wearing some impressive piece that would protect his skull from the clash against sharp glass); secondly, and perhaps most fittingly, the assaulter isn't really strong. That would suggest he's puny. Alright, that seems to make sense. But, oh crap, it doesn't, because whoever wrote the post said "slammed" which suggests a more-than-mild- force. Only the first of the two suggestions would work, and, since it was neither mentioned nor believable, it can be inferred that the writing is atrocious. That's really depressing in this situation; however, I really hope that in this case, it is valid. Hopefully, with some help, we can find who links up to this diligent remorse (key word: I need help here from the rest of the town!).
Now the most culpable post after that Day post was JeeJee's. I might be misinterpreting his words. He writes, "now that's interesting
i assume the vig description will be altered to allow this to happen since it's obviously a vig kill"
He never explains why it's interesting, and then he automatically concludes that BC will change the description. His thought-process here, in my opinion, is illogical. It seems like he had spent time thinking what he would write, for the presumption that it's "obviously a vig kill" is not obvious at all. It makes me a little suspicious about him, since that would have been against the explicit rules, and any player playing this game should (and I truly hope) knows that. Behaviorally speaking, he can immediately be incriminated. The only problem is that although he should have read the game rules, he might not. This loophole (the presumption that people will do what they're supposed to, especially when it's effective to help entertain a final purpose) adds skepticism to any limited behavioral analysis. His later PMs seem briefed. They're not necessarily short; they're simply fragmented. Why is that I wonder? Would you yourself care to explain, JeeJee? The reason I'm asking is because later on, (at the end of my route thus far, which is page 23), you analyze a clue that you feel links to qatol, and it seems to make a bit of sense. It's not terribly suspicious, it's simply a shift in tone, and I'm wondering whether you'd care to explain. In truth, I myself did not catch that nuance in the rules; the fact that I arrived after this was figured out is the only reason I didn't post similarly in confusion.
Here's what Chuiu said:
"I don't want to sound paranoid but maybe there are two mafia families this round. Another possibility is that Contract Killer shows up as red, hopefully we can get some answers from BC. I don't have time to catch up right now but I will when I get back home in a few hours."
He actually makes the connection. But he says "maybe." Out of nowhere, he suggests two families. This is absolutely key, in my opinion, since it shows that either he's making a huge conceptual leap knowing that the families were not part of the game, or he's read the entirety of the rules. We know he hasn't. He says "maybe." It seems that a mafia would make a similar post. Of course, there's the chance that he did make that conceptual leap out of nowhere. Who knows? One post is certainly not fair enough to make that decision.
On the topic of the double lynch. A double lynch, in my opinion, is an asset to the town, and it can only be propitious when we have tangible suspects. By Ace's post telling all that a double lynch is a bad idea, no one had explained why they had voted for a double lynch. And the reason for this is inactivity. I admit that I myself am a culprit, but from pages 18-23, I see only a dozen names that constantly reappear. This is bad. It leads us away from a discussion and a collaboration of insights and rather focuses more on listening to a simple lecture. Therefore, I advise all inactives that if they wish to help the town, then they should do more than simply speak up. Post you suspicions. And don't just list them. Elucidate them. Please. At this rate, the town will remain an unorganized crew, even after we've lost two detectives. (Which, by the way, means that this DT CANNOT be inactive, since doing so would make a valuable resource worth nothing. This doesn't mean that he needs to post; it does, however, mean that he needs to be active in his search. And precise, unfortunately.)
** I think, most importantly, we need to look at Bockit's previous posts. He was killed by another mafia who did not know he was mafia. That means that in one or more of his posts, he must have accused one of them (either directly or indirectly, he must have used some logic); in the process, of course, he might have been attempting to divert attention away from a mafia he had known. Therefore, we need to look back at his posts. They above all give us an incredible wealth of information. After reading the remaining two pages, I'll do that. Hopefully others will do as well, so that this isn't simply a preaching. >.>
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On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Carbon Monoxide is not really a slow death... its acutally quite fast. It is slow in comparison to a bullet, for example, but then so are many of the narcotics.
Looked it up and you're right. Usually kills in under 2 hours.
On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Accidental death == CO poisoning?? now you're just making stuff up...
I still think this makes perfect sense. Could any other name be tied to accidental death? Maybe 3 lions, but that would be one hell of a stretch.
On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Soo you're telling me, even though the clue doesn't fit, you're saying its a strong clue cause that's the best you got. Nice
My point was that if someone isn't familiar with the specifics of CO poisoning they might assume it's painful. It's just a general reference to gassing. But I suppose that would be selling BC short, he seems pretty bright. I agree with you here as well.
On April 27 2009 07:05 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
I think the problem with this analysis is that these are all clues from different deaths and thus pointing to different mafiosos. Unless BC has drastically changed the format of clue writing, you cannot link all of these clues to just one person.
Oh, really? I wasn't familiar with BC's method. In that case, the evidence against him isn't so heavy. Sorry I was so zealous, Monoxide.
In light of this, I'll be changing my vote to Quickstriker.
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This is clearly the most dysfunctional town yet.
Both families will be able to pick us apart at this rate.
At least some people are showing their true colours and we'll be able to pin point which family each person works for.
:p
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nice posts qatol. you kinda cemented my understanding with them. doesn't really matter if i get lynched first at this point, people will understand what i've been trying to say after i flip, and they re-read your posts 
as for this:
On April 27 2009 10:34 0cz3c wrote:
Now the most culpable post after that Day post was JeeJee's. I might be misinterpreting his words. He writes, "now that's interesting
i assume the vig description will be altered to allow this to happen since it's obviously a vig kill"
He never explains why it's interesting, and then he automatically concludes that BC will change the description. His thought-process here, in my opinion, is illogical. It seems like he had spent time thinking what he would write, for the presumption that it's "obviously a vig kill" is not obvious at all. It makes me a little suspicious about him, since that would have been against the explicit rules, and any player playing this game should (and I truly hope) knows that. Behaviorally speaking, he can immediately be incriminated. The only problem is that although he should have read the game rules, he might not. This loophole (the presumption that people will do what they're supposed to, especially when it's effective to help entertain a final purpose) adds skepticism to any limited behavioral analysis. His later PMs seem briefed. They're not necessarily short; they're simply fragmented. Why is that I wonder? Would you yourself care to explain, JeeJee? The reason I'm asking is because later on, (at the end of my route thus far, which is page 23), you analyze a clue that you feel links to qatol, and it seems to make a bit of sense. It's not terribly suspicious, it's simply a shift in tone, and I'm wondering whether you'd care to explain. In truth, I myself did not catch that nuance in the rules; the fact that I arrived after this was figured out is the only reason I didn't post similarly in confusion.
wall of text aside.. sure, i'll go through it bit by bit.
it's interesting because there's a mafia death on the first day which rules prohibited. the description must be changed because as of then, there was no way a mafia death could occur on the first day. I was right. The description was changed (not for the vig, but for the mafia to allow multiple families)
the only reason i thought it was obviously a vig kill is because i hadn't even considered the possibility of multiple mafia families. oversight on my part.
Not sure what you're referring to with my later PMs, you're one of the people i haven't been talking to behind the scenes ^_^. if you mean posts in this thread, the only reason i'm putting more attention into them now is because up until around page 18 or so i had exams. i made a post about it somewhere, feel free to find it.
like i said, i'm on the town's side and i have nothing to hide. feel free to ask me more question. qatol though, he misplayed i must say.
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anyway i was reading through the entire thread and i found this random bug, here's a screenshot, click to enlarge (a random black rectangle appears -- its position seems to vary in the thread but there's always exactly one of it). is anyone else getting this? i have refreshed the page a few times (i'm using this link)
just thought it was something random. it's not an image, i can't select it or anything ... it's just.. there. odd.
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Canada7170 Posts
Monoxide did a decent defense for himself, and also acted in the way I expected him to if he was green/blue (it's sincere, at least I think so for now).
Hence, I vote quickstriker. It's essentially random, and I am not inclined to vote for anyone else yet.
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On April 27 2009 12:40 JeeJee wrote:anyway i was reading through the entire thread and i found this random bug, here's a screenshot, click to enlarge (a random black rectangle appears -- its position seems to vary in the thread but there's always exactly one of it). is anyone else getting this? i have refreshed the page a few times (i'm using this link) just thought it was something random. it's not an image, i can't select it or anything ... it's just.. there. odd.
I don't understand your point here, can you explain?
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On April 27 2009 12:51 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 12:40 JeeJee wrote:anyway i was reading through the entire thread and i found this random bug, here's a screenshot, click to enlarge (a random black rectangle appears -- its position seems to vary in the thread but there's always exactly one of it). is anyone else getting this? i have refreshed the page a few times (i'm using this link) just thought it was something random. it's not an image, i can't select it or anything ... it's just.. there. odd. I don't understand your point here, can you explain?
it's nothing related to the mafia game itself, i think it's more of a forum bug.
when i go to the show-all link (linked in the post), and scroll through the thread, i see that black rectangle in a random place in the thread for some unknown reason. i've never seen that before, and thought it was interesting. i also wondered whether anyone else is seeing it or is my computer acting wonky
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Ok I've finished watching TV. As most of you have noticed I've been extremely laid back the past few mafia games. I've tried to play low key and avoid being hit but alas, one of the mafia families went at me on the first night. So now I have to take things seriously.
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On April 27 2009 12:56 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 12:51 Tricode wrote:On April 27 2009 12:40 JeeJee wrote:anyway i was reading through the entire thread and i found this random bug, here's a screenshot, click to enlarge (a random black rectangle appears -- its position seems to vary in the thread but there's always exactly one of it). is anyone else getting this? i have refreshed the page a few times (i'm using this link) just thought it was something random. it's not an image, i can't select it or anything ... it's just.. there. odd. I don't understand your point here, can you explain? it's nothing related to the mafia game itself, i think it's more of a forum bug. when i go to the show-all link (linked in the post), and scroll through the thread, i see that black rectangle in a random place in the thread for some unknown reason. i've never seen that before, and thought it was interesting. i also wondered whether anyone else is seeing it or is my computer acting wonky
I thought I saw it too, but it was very small and in someone's sig using that link so it's probably just a virus on your computer ^_^
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Ok guys, I have returned from my trip to Jersey to meet my father's friend daughter with my father in which basically took like 6 hours just for a dinner and coffee.... so yea, I think I have spend a lot of my energy on forced driving I had to do as that was the main reason my father took me there to be his and their personal driver for the night.....
with that being said, I did promise I will continue my series of long post that happens like only once per a while but with my current situation (I have to take of immediate issue which is Bathroom Option #2 out of 5 things you can do in the bathroom, and also bathroom option #4), I will have to put it on hold until further notice (possibly morning... I hope not...)
But I will assure you that I will try to fullfill my promise as much lazy person I am I can be....
That being said, 2 final words I like to point out...
1. I noticed after my initial post that was the introduction of what is to be come up, a lot of people did not like my ways of posting nor how I act thus, decided to lynch me for that sole reason... because they don't like me??? WHAT THE HECK OF THE REASON IS THAT???? COME ON PEOPLE, ARE YOU THAT SIMPLE MINDED??? GOD, SERIOUSLY....
I know this won't help my points more and I'm sure either the people who voted on me because of my posts or how I act won't change their votes in which I'm not expecting them to unless I give them a really good reason but I really wanted to point this out to everyone... if this is the type of mafia game I see in this game where people don't become such logical in terms of voting people off, I might as well be voted off so I can watch everyone just get screwed with others because they decided to vote people off without real hard evidence....
2. After getting sort of semi-pissed at what just happened with people trying to vote for me because I'm annoying or whatnot, I forgot what my second point was.... so yea... forget the second point...
Onward to #2 and #4 of my bathroom options.... brb/afk for a bit..
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 26 2009 13:05 Qatol wrote:
As for suspects: again, we have very little to go on. People I would encourage taking a look at:
Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts.
Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her.
3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect.
FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then.
My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game.
i've been working, catching up now
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On April 27 2009 13:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2009 13:05 Qatol wrote:
As for suspects: again, we have very little to go on. People I would encourage taking a look at:
Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts.
Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her.
3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect.
FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then.
My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game. i've been working, catching up now
just to clarify, my exams still are not over. These upcoming ones just arn't as difficult.
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United States7488 Posts
I was gone for the whole weekend. It's almost 3am and I need to sleep because I have work in five hours. I'll be catching up tomorrow morning at work as I am only to page 23 right now.
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Phew i have alot to catch up on
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USA5860 Posts
On April 27 2009 11:02 3clipse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Carbon Monoxide is not really a slow death... its acutally quite fast. It is slow in comparison to a bullet, for example, but then so are many of the narcotics.
Looked it up and you're right. Usually kills in under 2 hours. Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Accidental death == CO poisoning?? now you're just making stuff up...
I still think this makes perfect sense. Could any other name be tied to accidental death? Maybe 3 lions, but that would be one hell of a stretch. Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Soo you're telling me, even though the clue doesn't fit, you're saying its a strong clue cause that's the best you got. Nice
My point was that if someone isn't familiar with the specifics of CO poisoning they might assume it's painful. It's just a general reference to gassing. But I suppose that would be selling BC short, he seems pretty bright. I agree with you here as well. Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 07:05 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
I think the problem with this analysis is that these are all clues from different deaths and thus pointing to different mafiosos. Unless BC has drastically changed the format of clue writing, you cannot link all of these clues to just one person.
Oh, really? I wasn't familiar with BC's method. In that case, the evidence against him isn't so heavy. Sorry I was so zealous, Monoxide. In light of this, I'll be changing my vote to Quickstriker.
Regarding your general accusations against monxide. Yes, it is true that not all the clues can link to him, generally 1 kill = 1 mafia. But when a few seem to link to him as opposed to one, doesn't that seem like its a better chance we hit a mafia if we think 3 clues point to him as opposed to one?
I still think QS is the best target, his posting is very mafiaish.
And @monoxide.
On April 27 2009 05:49 Monoxide wrote:
Accidental death == CO poisoning?? now you're just making stuff up...
Maybe I am reading out of context but, Carbon Monoxide poisoning is a common accidental death, one of my close friends actually died because of it last year. Apparently it has no scent, and if you leave a car on in a garage with a door closed, it will kill you even if you are in another room in your house. :O!!! So carbon monoxide poisoning happens pretty easily. Its why most houses have mononide detectors.
However your post might be out of context.
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Suicide by Asphyxiation is what you're looking for.
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USA5860 Posts
the way QS posts is kind of annoying as well.
Im voting lynch just based off that.
.....you know and the other suspicious stuff!
Can anyone tell me if what 0cz3c said is worth reading? In the other mafia games he posted the most retarded shit and I don't feel like wasting 5-10 minutes reading his essay if its another one of those random "I am going to accuse the enire town of being mafia and I also happen to be EVERY SINGLE ROLE IN THE GAME" posts. (that were ridiculous and colored)
and just for the record, I don't consider the case of Monoxide to be weak at all, I think the accidental death clue links very well with him. However QS behavior and the clue links seem to be the best thing we have so far, so I will go with that. However I still think we need to consider Monoxide for possible next lynch candidate.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7079/wtfuxj.jpg)
