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Why the hell are we double lynching
Why the hell are we lynching JeeJee
There are clearly much stronger lynch targets than JeeJee to begin with, and we have little to no evidence that we have surefire mafia targets.
The only thing a double lynch is good for is hitting when we have a stronger lead on mafia. When we have little to no lead on mafia like we do now, then we're kind of in a shithole, aren't we.
Qatol, what the hell are you doing,, accusing JeeJee like that. While I do admit his defense is pretty crappy, your grounds for lynching him and not Monoxide are flawed. If you remember from last game, most of the mafia we hit were based off a multi-clue pointing, because of the chance that one of the clues was the one in question. Granted we have a different mod this game, but I think there is still a good chance here.
Not to mention that you've been playing very uncharacteristically from previous rounds, and the Uff Da ---> clumsiness clue, seems to me that town should be very cautious about blindly following orders here.
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Canada7170 Posts
On April 27 2009 14:01 Monoxide wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 13:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On April 26 2009 13:05 Qatol wrote:
As for suspects: again, we have very little to go on. People I would encourage taking a look at:
Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts.
Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her.
3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect.
FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then.
My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game. i've been working, catching up now  just to clarify, my exams still are not over. These upcoming ones just arn't as difficult.
Shit, so so so so so sorry dude. You've just been complaining about that ONE lol
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On April 28 2009 00:00 Caller wrote:
Why the hell are we double lynching
Why the hell are we lynching JeeJee
There are clearly much stronger lynch targets than JeeJee to begin with, and we have little to no evidence that we have surefire mafia targets.
The only thing a double lynch is good for is hitting when we have a stronger lead on mafia. When we have little to no lead on mafia like we do now, then we're kind of in a shithole, aren't we.
Qatol, what the hell are you doing,, accusing JeeJee like that. While I do admit his defense is pretty crappy, your grounds for lynching him and not Monoxide are flawed. If you remember from last game, most of the mafia we hit were based off a multi-clue pointing, because of the chance that one of the clues was the one in question. Granted we have a different mod this game, but I think there is still a good chance here.
Not to mention that you've been playing very uncharacteristically from previous rounds, and the Uff Da ---> clumsiness clue, seems to me that town should be very cautious about blindly following orders here.
Well, if you look at the convo between Bockit and Qatol. Everytime JeeJee is mentioned, Bockit tries to avoid talking about Jeejee will take about Rage instead or just kinda ignore it and point out something else. Bockit also turned up red.
The same could be with Monoxide (If i remember correctly), i don't really agree with the clues against him, they're to ambiguous but once again from another source is claiming that his behavior is odd and some stories don't match up.
So the question is, what should we do? Well we can keep looking at the clues and try to use what ever time we have left to get something more solid, but in the end it looks like the information we have now is not enough.
So what do you recommend we do? Some of us are constantly looking at the clues and matching them up with people, but either the reasons they give are really ambiguous or they come up with nothing for now and have to wait for next set of clues.
Either Case I think we still have some time to change our votes, but we need more evidence and persuasion in understanding why one person would be more probable to lynch then the other.
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On April 28 2009 01:22 mikeymoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2009 14:01 Monoxide wrote:On April 27 2009 13:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On April 26 2009 13:05 Qatol wrote:
As for suspects: again, we have very little to go on. People I would encourage taking a look at:
Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts.
Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her.
3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect.
FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then.
My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game. i've been working, catching up now just to clarify, my exams still are not over. These upcoming ones just arn't as difficult. Shit, so so so so so sorry dude. You've just been complaining about that ONE lol
So what does that mean? That means he still has his finals going and what you said a bit back was wrong?
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On April 28 2009 01:25 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2009 00:00 Caller wrote:
Why the hell are we double lynching
Why the hell are we lynching JeeJee
There are clearly much stronger lynch targets than JeeJee to begin with, and we have little to no evidence that we have surefire mafia targets.
The only thing a double lynch is good for is hitting when we have a stronger lead on mafia. When we have little to no lead on mafia like we do now, then we're kind of in a shithole, aren't we.
Qatol, what the hell are you doing,, accusing JeeJee like that. While I do admit his defense is pretty crappy, your grounds for lynching him and not Monoxide are flawed. If you remember from last game, most of the mafia we hit were based off a multi-clue pointing, because of the chance that one of the clues was the one in question. Granted we have a different mod this game, but I think there is still a good chance here.
Not to mention that you've been playing very uncharacteristically from previous rounds, and the Uff Da ---> clumsiness clue, seems to me that town should be very cautious about blindly following orders here. Well, if you look at the convo between Bockit and Qatol. Everytime JeeJee is mentioned, Bockit tries to avoid talking about Jeejee will take about Rage instead or just kinda ignore it and point out something else. Bockit also turned up red. The same could be with Monoxide (If i remember correctly), i don't really agree with the clues against him, they're to ambiguous but once again from another source is claiming that his behavior is odd and some stories don't match up. So the question is, what should we do? Well we can keep looking at the clues and try to use what ever time we have left to get something more solid, but in the end it looks like the information we have now is not enough. So what do you recommend we do? Some of us are constantly looking at the clues and matching them up with people, but either the reasons they give are really ambiguous or they come up with nothing for now and have to wait for next set of clues. Either Case I think we still have some time to change our votes, but we need more evidence and persuasion in understanding why one person would be more probable to lynch then the other.
looking at it from the general townie's perspective, there's really no solid reason to lynch me or anyone else at this point, but someone has to go to role-reveal and give town some info. if that's going to be me, that's absolutely fine provided you promise to re-read qatol's posts with the knowledge that i was green (once i get lynched i mean).
that's all i ask ^^
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On April 27 2009 23:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
the way QS posts is kind of annoying as well.
Im voting lynch just based off that.
.....you know and the other suspicious stuff!
Can anyone tell me if what 0cz3c said is worth reading? In the other mafia games he posted the most retarded shit and I don't feel like wasting 5-10 minutes reading his essay if its another one of those random "I am going to accuse the enire town of being mafia and I also happen to be EVERY SINGLE ROLE IN THE GAME" posts. (that were ridiculous and colored)
and just for the record, I don't consider the case of Monoxide to be weak at all, I think the accidental death clue links very well with him. However QS behavior and the clue links seem to be the best thing we have so far, so I will go with that. However I still think we need to consider Monoxide for possible next lynch candidate.
Nothing. just skip what he typed.
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United States7488 Posts
Some points:
We need to make the Medic list bigger. I tried to add two names to the list yesterday, but both people I recommended adding to the list died last night. Six people is too few to have a list as it leaves to many options still open for safer Mafia killings.
Either Ace is lying about being hit, Mafia doubled up, or missed somewhere else but that person isn't coming forward. I believe Ace, so it must be one of the other two options.
Qatol is being too aggressive as Mayor in my opinion.
I don't think trying to figure out who Pyrrhuloxia was PMing with will be very successful in finding the Mafia because it's likely he didn't tell others which other people he talk with and it's not like a guilty person is going to come forward and say they were talking with Pyrrhuloxia and that he revealed himself to them.
That being said I don't think PMing other people is a good idea in almost any case. If you have something to say, say it here so you can be accountable for it and others can start feeding off of your info. It is helpful to the town to do this. Hiding your information doesn't help us, it confuses and can hurt us, as you should now understand by Pyrrhuloxia's death.
Speculating about our power roles is BAD. This hurts the town, we don't want to help the Mafia figure out their kills for the night by outing possible power roles. The power roles we have are innocent players and an innocent player's judgment is better than the combined judgment from a group of others in my opinion, especially when a group of others can be influenced more easily by the Mafia. Just let the power roles be whoever they will be and trust them to make decisions. This power role speculation stuff goes for PM's and posting in the thread. So if you have been doing this, please stop doing it!
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On April 28 2009 01:38 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2009 01:25 Tricode wrote:On April 28 2009 00:00 Caller wrote:
Why the hell are we double lynching
Why the hell are we lynching JeeJee
There are clearly much stronger lynch targets than JeeJee to begin with, and we have little to no evidence that we have surefire mafia targets.
The only thing a double lynch is good for is hitting when we have a stronger lead on mafia. When we have little to no lead on mafia like we do now, then we're kind of in a shithole, aren't we.
Qatol, what the hell are you doing,, accusing JeeJee like that. While I do admit his defense is pretty crappy, your grounds for lynching him and not Monoxide are flawed. If you remember from last game, most of the mafia we hit were based off a multi-clue pointing, because of the chance that one of the clues was the one in question. Granted we have a different mod this game, but I think there is still a good chance here.
Not to mention that you've been playing very uncharacteristically from previous rounds, and the Uff Da ---> clumsiness clue, seems to me that town should be very cautious about blindly following orders here. Well, if you look at the convo between Bockit and Qatol. Everytime JeeJee is mentioned, Bockit tries to avoid talking about Jeejee will take about Rage instead or just kinda ignore it and point out something else. Bockit also turned up red. The same could be with Monoxide (If i remember correctly), i don't really agree with the clues against him, they're to ambiguous but once again from another source is claiming that his behavior is odd and some stories don't match up. So the question is, what should we do? Well we can keep looking at the clues and try to use what ever time we have left to get something more solid, but in the end it looks like the information we have now is not enough. So what do you recommend we do? Some of us are constantly looking at the clues and matching them up with people, but either the reasons they give are really ambiguous or they come up with nothing for now and have to wait for next set of clues. Either Case I think we still have some time to change our votes, but we need more evidence and persuasion in understanding why one person would be more probable to lynch then the other. looking at it from the general townie's perspective, there's really no solid reason to lynch me or anyone else at this point, but someone has to go to role-reveal and give town some info. if that's going to be me, that's absolutely fine provided you promise to re-read qatol's posts with the knowledge that i was green (once i get lynched i mean). that's all i ask ^^
If you find anything you really don't like about what Qatol posts, can you please post and explain it to us please?
We would like to notice what you noticed if you truely think it is valuable. Either case it might not hurt just to take a look at his posts, but if you can give us an idea of what you want us to look for and why. That would be appreciated.
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On April 28 2009 01:49 semioldguy wrote:I vote to lynch: JeeJeeReasoning: Show nested quote +On April 28 2009 01:25 Tricode wrote:
Well, if you look at the convo between Bockit and Qatol. Everytime JeeJee is mentioned, Bockit tries to avoid talking about Jeejee will take about Rage instead or just kinda ignore it and point out something else. Bockit also turned up red.
terrible reasoning. have you even looked at the convo between bockit and qatol? "every time jeejee is mentioned". pray tell, what are those times? you mean the one time he said that i am suspicious but not worth lynching yet?
if you're going to lynch me at least do it due to the silly wagon courtesy of qatol/chuiu/showtime.
i'm done trying to knock sense into you guys, so hopeless. you better re-evaluate the "higher ups" after i flip green.
sorry to all the pm buddies. long as you're careful though we should have this.
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Dont worry JeeJee plenty of people don't think you are mafia. Qatol and anyone voting for a doublr lynch are more suspect than you are.
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United States7488 Posts
On April 28 2009 02:46 JeeJee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2009 01:49 semioldguy wrote:I vote to lynch: JeeJeeReasoning: On April 28 2009 01:25 Tricode wrote:
Well, if you look at the convo between Bockit and Qatol. Everytime JeeJee is mentioned, Bockit tries to avoid talking about Jeejee will take about Rage instead or just kinda ignore it and point out something else. Bockit also turned up red.
terrible reasoning. have you even looked at the convo between bockit and qatol? "every time jeejee is mentioned". pray tell, what are those times? you mean the one time he said that i am suspicious but not worth lynching yet?
I gave the posts another look. You were mentioned twice, but the second time was not inquiring about you at all and not really looking for a response about you (and it didn't get one). That doesn't remove all my suspicion from you, but it does remove some. For now I am going to unvote you.
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United States7488 Posts
I also think double lynch is a horrible play to make right now. We don't have enough solid to go on yet.
Showtime! suggested it and was the first to vote on it, followed not to much after by Chuiu. Do you seriously think this was a good move? The people speaking out against the double lynch look good to me.
On April 26 2009 17:02 Malongo wrote:
4 We dont know how will come the mafia hits next day and always remember that there are 2 groups coordinated against the town. We cant afford to waste the lynchs helping anyside, if something, its better and the best plan for the town to wait that the two mafias hit eachother. Im not saying obviously that we dont lynch mafia, but wasting double lynchs to help one of them is not optimal, if one of the mafia wants to damage the other lets force them to use theyr own hits, not the town double lynchs.
This makes no sense to me. Why is it the best plan to wait for the mafia families to lynch each other??! Lynching mafia is lynching mafia and lowers the overall kill power. I don't think it matters too much to the town which family we are lynching as long as we are eliminating Mafia which lowers the overall kill power. What if the two families don't lynch each other? How can we determine who is in which family anyway? You appear innocent to me Malongo, but this is just bad thinking in my eyes.
@ Mynock and Vivi57
What do you think of the alignment of some of the people pressing a double lynch for tomorrow? Do you find any of them to more likely be mafia than the rest? Which ones and why? This question can be answered by anyone who opposes the double lynch really, those were just the first two people in the voting thread who spoke out against it so I find their opinion more genuine than others who posted later who may just have been following.
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[QUOTE]On April 26 2009 10:04 Qatol wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 26 2009 09:56 Qatol wrote:
Bockit:
+ Show Spoiler +
-------------------------------------------Bockit
Haha yeah, day 1 clues are the worst things haha. I still laugh at the pika chu thing from last game.
And I agree, I'm definitely lower profile than those players.
I've got to go to my after-graduation drinks thing for my uni class (I still have to wait another year ) So I have to bail, but yeah, we need to keep the town active so we can try to trip up some mafia.
-----------------------------------------Qatol
Original Message:
Yeah also shortly after I sent that JeeJee started posting. He definitely isn't worth lynching. But he should be watched. Right now, I think coolcrimefighter is our best bet.
Only major thing I think is important right now in the thread is my medic post. (Do you agree with it? I'm afraid of making it much longer because that would just create a target list like last game.)
Can't do anything about inertinept. At least we TRIED to make a decent decision.
-----------------------------------------Bockit
Original Message:
Suspicious? Yes. Worth lynching him over? In my experience with mafia so far, no. Same as Rage.
I just woke up and am responding to pms before I read the thread, so I don't know if anything has been worked on but the town really needs to stay active. Any plans we develop aren't going to happen until people are able to judge others as blue/green/red so until the day clues we should promote activity in the thread.
Sucks about inertinept btw I wish people would play more intelligently.
-----------------------------------------Qatol
Original Message:
What do you think about JeeJee? Like Rage he isn't posting in the mafia thread. However, they are both posting in the Dota thread.......
+ Show Spoiler +
----------------------------------------------------------Bockit
I don't know if I'd call it insight into the situation, it just really comes across as the usual 'newish member' trying to fit in with one of the 'cool' mods that seems to happen all the time here
Hmm, a stronger target? I'm not sure I won't lie I haven't got any huge suspects yet
I could be wrong about quickstriker, my gut says he's not mafia but if you were to pick him I can't imagine anyone complaining (lack of anyone else to pick at this stage really).
Rage is another suspicion of mine. He's been in the staff IRC channel since the thread has come up and I've been aware of it. Normally it's a pretty daunting task to read the first day or so of the thread (I know last game I put this off for half a day, made it worse but w/e) but this thread is only 13~ pages or so, with 5-6 pages of signup stuff that you can pretty much ignore.
But that doesn't mean he's mafia and Rage tends not to post so much iirc from other games, he could be a hiding blue and it would suck to hit a blue.
Looking back that's not really much help for picking a target , I'll keep in touch though with any thoughts.
Thanks for the confidence vote It is reciprocated.
[/QUOTE]
It is still a bit suspicious Jeejee. Plus you keep saying "Look at Qatol and read his posts" and I am still asking you what did you find about Qatol? I understand you are still trying to defend yourself, but some of the reasoning you keep wanting to look at Qatol.
Is it bad reasoning to be suspicious of you when twice you were mentioned and Bockit just turned the convo onto Rage or other thoughts he had. To add Bockit was Mafia
You are telling me with that information so far we shouldn't be suspicious of you?
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I skimmed through most of the pages after I got back last night.
Seems like there are 2 Mafia families and a lot of chaos (drama stirred up by Mafia parties) and lots of town confusion. This is going to be more tense than last game 
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EDit: Well obviously suspicious. WHat i should say, be more inclined to consider you mafia then others with the information we have?
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Canada7170 Posts
On April 28 2009 01:29 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2009 01:22 mikeymoo wrote:On April 27 2009 14:01 Monoxide wrote:On April 27 2009 13:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:On April 26 2009 13:05 Qatol wrote:
As for suspects: again, we have very little to go on. People I would encourage taking a look at:
Monoxide - he has said he has exams. Shouldn't they be over by now? He has also been linked to decently strong clues in each of the first 2 posts.
Versatile - She hasn't posted AT ALL. Since she is Ace's friend, I would assume that she is about his age and is done with school? Not sure on that. Regardless, being this quiet is totally out of character for her.
3 lions - he voted in the day 2 lynch thread but has still made 0 posts in the mafia thread. Obviously he is reading the thread at least a little because he is voting for a decently common suspect.
FakeSteve[TPR] - He was posting decently actively until he lost the election. He has gone completely quiet since then.
My personal pick right now? Versatile. In both games she has played, she has not been red (veteran in AMW, miller hit by mafia last game). Her style has completely changed for this game. i've been working, catching up now just to clarify, my exams still are not over. These upcoming ones just arn't as difficult. Shit, so so so so so sorry dude. You've just been complaining about that ONE lol So what does that mean? That means he still has his finals going and what you said a bit back was wrong?
It means what I said was exaggerated. He obviously has free time, just not as much as I assumed to be true at the time. Reading over other posts right now.
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Tricode you can't be serious.
Really JeeJee is right - just look at Qatols post. Look at how he became Mayor. Sure, no one with the exception of Caller and myself (har har) seemed to have run but look at how quickly Qatol got votes. In fact, Im sure some of those people that voted for him did it just because he was the first "candidate".
Now he's trying to push for a double lynch WHEN WE DO NOT NEED ONE. We don't even have 1 sure fire suspect so a regular lynch will barely do - why double lynch?
Lastly, he's trying to make himself look active by accusing people. It makes Qatol seem to be on one side of the "us vs them" paradigm - namely Townies vs Mafia. However people seem to forget that with Bockit dying on Night 1 it has revealed to us that it's more like "us vs them vs those other guys too". There is more than 1 mafia family, so even if JeeJee is guilty that doesn't mean Qatol isn't either. His interests are mafia motivated just as much as anyone he accuses or gets to flip red.
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On April 28 2009 04:37 Ace wrote:
Tricode you can't be serious.
Really JeeJee is right - just look at Qatols post. Look at how he became Mayor. Sure, no one with the exception of Caller and myself (har har) seemed to have run but look at how quickly Qatol got votes. In fact, Im sure some of those people that voted for him did it just because he was the first "candidate".
Now he's trying to push for a double lynch WHEN WE DO NOT NEED ONE. We don't even have 1 sure fire suspect so a regular lynch will barely do - why double lynch?
Lastly, he's trying to make himself look active by accusing people. It makes Qatol seem to be on one side of the "us vs them" paradigm - namely Townies vs Mafia. However people seem to forget that with Bockit dying on Night 1 it has revealed to us that it's more like "us vs them vs those other guys too". There is more than 1 mafia family, so even if JeeJee is guilty that doesn't mean Qatol isn't either. His interests are mafia motivated just as much as anyone he accuses or gets to flip red.
I never said Qatol is innocent, he could be mafia, for me I will just constantly observe even those who appear innocent now could turn up to be mafia later. Though I am seeing two side for the double lynch, I do agree, I don't think now is the time for that when we have no strong evidence like in chuiu's last game.
Though I don't think Jeejee's case should be dismissed. Maybe Qatols post are irregular, fine we should look into that, but it doesn't mean we should ignore Jeejee's case.
Either case, i'm sticking with this rule for now. Keep my friends close and my enemies closer. In either case I have to always keep my eye open.
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Edit: i have to go to class now, I'll be on later.
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On April 28 2009 03:15 semioldguy wrote:I also think double lynch is a horrible play to make right now. We don't have enough solid to go on yet. Show nested quote +On April 26 2009 17:02 Malongo wrote:
4 We dont know how will come the mafia hits next day and always remember that there are 2 groups coordinated against the town. We cant afford to waste the lynchs helping anyside, if something, its better and the best plan for the town to wait that the two mafias hit eachother. Im not saying obviously that we dont lynch mafia, but wasting double lynchs to help one of them is not optimal, if one of the mafia wants to damage the other lets force them to use theyr own hits, not the town double lynchs.
This makes no sense to me. Why is it the best plan to wait for the mafia families to lynch each other??! Lynching mafia is lynching mafia and lowers the overall kill power. I don't think it matters too much to the town which family we are lynching as long as we are eliminating Mafia which lowers the overall kill power. What if the two families don't lynch each other? How can we determine who is in which family anyway? You appear innocent to me Malongo, but this is just bad thinking in my eyes.
That point in my analisis was thinking in the case (highly problable imo) that each mafia is concerned more into lowering down the other mafia than killing single townies. I think i missexplained that point: if the 2 mafias try to hit the eachother by double lynch its not good for the town when they are "gambling" or using unsure targets, because theres a high chance that we misslynch and lose the double lynch. Then, IF mafia wants to hit eachother, by saving our DL, they have to use their own hits on that gamble or work for the town in the single lynchs wich is good for the town. Maybe that point is a little overlooked but honestly i just panicked when i saw 2 first votes for double lynch and tried to scream as loudly as i could maybe now i made myself clear?
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EPT
