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While I understand that getting more town controlled lynches earlier is statistically positive in town's favor if we have an overall bias towards hitting mafia, I don't think the overall bias is large enough at this point because of a lack of clue information.
JeeJee's posting behavior in this thread has been around 100% consistent with his normally retarded behavior, so that's not an element of concern. Essentially we're running 100% off bockits information.
Lets recap motherfuckers:
1) No one knew about the existance of multiple mafia families, not even the mafia. .
2) Bockit was either trying to defend a fellow mafia or trying to associate himself with someone he thought was green in order to appear normal.
3) Bockit didn't know he was going to die that night, didn't think it was possible for him to die. Would he defend another mafia member so early, or was he just settling into his behind the scenes roll?
I dunno. These are super subjective questions. If someone can work at least 1 set of clues to JeeJee, that would be a start, but I haven't seen any proper analysis on it.
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All of the above is based on what we can currently determine. I assumed that mafia didn't know about each other because one of their numbers ended up dying and I assumed that bockit didn't know he was going to die.
It is possible that the above assumptions are false, but I think the gain for killing off a mafia on the first night provides far less confusion and benefits for the mafia to work with than is reasonable to assume they knew and acted anyways. Where Jee Jee is concerned, please view the following video, because we used to link it repeatedly to make fun of him.
+ Show Spoiler +
Haven't really seen anything else which directly incriminates him.
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oh L
you gone done it now
+ Show Spoiler [to L] +Like the Erlking in Goethe's famous poem, the maleficence of Lucas 'L"'s reports can sometimes be imperceptible. The purpose of this letter is therefore to expose the unambitious nature of L's biases and let you draw your own conclusions about L's motives. First and foremost, Lhas an ego of galactic proportions. In this case, one cannot help but recall that some people don't seem to mind that he likes to attack my character. What a reprehensible world we live in! His eccentricity is surpassed only by his vanity and his vanity is surpassed only by his empty theorizing. (Remember his theory that turning segregationists loose against us good citizens is essential for the safety and welfare of the public?)
Each rung on the ladder of gnosticism is a crisis of some kind. Each crisis supplies an excuse for L to replicate the most virulent structures of contemporary life. That is the standard process by which abhorrent witlings add insult to injury. While some of his commentaries are very attractive on the surface and are undoubtedly entertaining, they ultimately serve to direct social activity toward philanthropic flimflam rather than toward the elimination of the basic deficiencies in the organization of our economic and cultural life. It is not news that it may seem excessive to note that his endeavors leave much to be desired. What speaks volumes, though, is that there is a proper place in life for hatred. Hatred of that which is wrong is a powerful and valuable tool. But when L perverts hatred in order to wage a clandestine guerilla war against many basic human rights, it becomes clear that his epithets serve no purpose other than to concentrate all the wealth of the world into his own hands, so to speak.
I once tried to explain to L that his prank phone calls will deny the obvious. Rather than feel ashamed of himself, L got angry at me. What this says is that if it turns out that there's decidedly no way to prevent L from plaguing our minds then I guess it'll be time to throw my cards on the table and call it quits. I'll just have to give up trying to provide a positive, confident, and assertive vision of humanity's future and our role in it and accept the fact that he seems unable to think of turns of speech that aren't hackneyed. What really grates on my nerves, however, is that L's prose consists less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning than of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated henhouse. Letting Lucas 'L" destroy the sovereignty of all nations and every feeling or expression of patriotism is a recipe for disaster. Period, finis, and Q.E.D.
can bc just end the day this conversation from my point of view is over. i've said everything i wanted to say, the opinion won't change until i flip, so whatever. more time for dota
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man if JeeJee gets lynched and flips Green/Blue Im probably gonna just stop playing. Actually I'll probably stop anyway, the town is pretty fucking stupid this time anyway.
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JeeJee
PM me the site you use to generate those ridiculous blocks of text.
In other news my last exam is thursday :D.
if JeeJee gets lynched and flips Green/Blue Im probably gonna just stop playing. : (. This is an incredibly stupid move, and I suggest people listen to the general "this is retarded" sentiment regarding the bandwagon forming behind JeeJee. Please rethink your votes.
I personally think ver's activity is the most suspicious item we have to work with, and his name can be fit to pretty much half the clues. I'ma vote for him and I suggest that if you're going to bandwagon like a bunch of retards that you do so too. Otherwise, post reasoning and discuss options here.
And back to studying.
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On April 28 2009 04:37 Ace wrote:
Tricode you can't be serious.
Really JeeJee is right - just look at Qatols post. Look at how he became Mayor. Sure, no one with the exception of Caller and myself (har har) seemed to have run but look at how quickly Qatol got votes. In fact, Im sure some of those people that voted for him did it just because he was the first "candidate".
Now he's trying to push for a double lynch WHEN WE DO NOT NEED ONE. We don't even have 1 sure fire suspect so a regular lynch will barely do - why double lynch?
Lastly, he's trying to make himself look active by accusing people. It makes Qatol seem to be on one side of the "us vs them" paradigm - namely Townies vs Mafia. However people seem to forget that with Bockit dying on Night 1 it has revealed to us that it's more like "us vs them vs those other guys too". There is more than 1 mafia family, so even if JeeJee is guilty that doesn't mean Qatol isn't either. His interests are mafia motivated just as much as anyone he accuses or gets to flip red.
I ran too late.
The double lynch is based on posts and behavior more than anything else.
Besides that, it looks like the game is on hold because TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE INACTIVE!
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In light of recent posts, I've been reconsidering JeeJee as a suspect as well. I first thought he was suspicious because he seemed more defensive than usual about being accused. In the last game, he was accused repeatedly as well (something about digging, I think) and responded more calmly, pointing out other clues that fit better with other people. In addition, he usually helps by doing clue analysis, which was noticeably absent this time, all the more so because this time the town is much quieter and I think we can all agree we need all the help we can get.
I admit I was wrong about the word "angst" in his quote, though. I had the vague idea that the word meant unhappiness or pain, when in fact it means anxiety, fear or apprehension. (Dictionary.com does use "anguish" in its definition, which is a synonym for suffering or pain, though, so I don't feel quite as bad). Thanks for pointing that out, JeeJee.
Though her activity seems normal now that she's returned, I still think Versatile's quote best fits the Mafia who tripped but managed to dodge a bullet and killed Pyrrhuloxia. At this point, I can't find anyone who links solidly to clues, honestly.
To L: I'm curious, why Ver? I remember he said he'd be tied up by exams until Tuesday, and his activity has definitely reflected that.
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^^Yes. The inactivity is stagnating this game. Not even discussion to lift JeeJee's hopes  When nobody is discussing things get bad. Very bad. I seriously doubt any of these are mafia. Either that or both mafia families are inactive/sacking their suspects/too afraid to talk.
@L: I'm guessing mafia would have known that there could have been two mafia families when they figured out they had a small group (5-6 mafia?) and low KP (2-3 probably).
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Canada7170 Posts
I have nothing to say apart from "I'm pretty sure JeeJee's not mafia". Inactivity is killing this town just like every other one. Should we perhaps PM the inactive ones?
This is mikeymoo for TeamLiquid. mikeymoooooooo out~
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yah i remember one of the earlier games, the host pm'd all the inactives and it brought back like 80% of them for a few day-night cycles. could help, i imagine
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honestly I havent had enough time to read through all the accusations but hopefully I can catch up on it soon.
may be inactive due to AP testing coming up but il try to keep reading.
I do have an inkling of someone whos a mafia but i wants moar observation first
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I'm guessing mafia would have known that there could have been two mafia families when they figured out they had a small group (5-6 mafia?) and low KP (2-3 probably). That's probably true, but I guess they might have thought that there are like 8 contract killers or something. Either way, if they shared name lists before the first night hits, then bockit's death is incredibly unlikely. Regardless of what each family knew, I find it incredibly hard to believe that bockit knew he was going to die and set himself up accordingly.
Man, studying is not as fun as mafia.
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Why do people sign up for these and then realize they have finals and feel they can't participate because of them ? :/
Seriously the last time I was in a mafia game the same excuse was used. If you don't have the time to play why the fuck did you put your name on the list? It's hard enough doing clue analysis and behavioral analysis with people generally being "inactive," but then to pop in and go "oh I have a lot to read sorry I wasn't around last week I was busy with tests/finals." Seriously? The ten minutes it takes to run through posts and quickly realize which ones are redundant posts and those with value it's not hard to get through 5-6 pages per 10-15 minutes. The game isn't even that active there isn't much to 'read up on.' You can just trace the past 3 pages to know what happened in the last 5.
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I got the feeling that everyone is just waiting for something to happen at night.
there's only so much discussion you can have with no new information
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But thats the thing - there is a lot of information in front of us. How can people vote for JeeJee and a double lynch and NOT QUESTION IT?
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On April 28 2009 10:17 Vivi57 wrote:
I got the feeling that everyone is just waiting for something to happen at night.
there's only so much discussion you can have with no new information
That's pretty much what I'm doing now.
I got back yesterday from a four day trip, read through a huge pile of shit chaotic posts today at work, and I decided to abstain my vote.
Just waiting to see what happens after tonight to "clear up" the picture a bit, since I'm technically still behind.
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On April 28 2009 10:21 Ace wrote:
But thats the thing - there is a lot of information in front of us. How can people vote for JeeJee and a double lynch and NOT QUESTION IT?
Hey you are really defending JeeJee hardcore. You are blowing off the evidence from the pms as if they were nothing.
I will say this, I don't really know anyone here so it makes it a lot more difficult to know how some of you guys really are during this type of game.
But if you are going to fight hardcore for jeejee, can you at least give me more then "JEEJEE is not mafia"
Seriously, all you been saying is "No" or "Yes" with little information.
I don't know you, I am not going to read your mind, and even though there maybe a good portion of vets or people near vet stage, there are those of us who need more then your word.
You mentioned Qatol's behavior and reasoning seem odd, fine. That's something I don't know cause I don't know how Qatol is in the games. But at least Qatol is giving information for me to use and information that I already noticed before he said anything.
If you are going to say the pm evidence between Bockit and Qatol are invalid, then give me some info please!
As far as voting goes, Qatol is the only one who really went all out in giving out reasons of why he should be mayor.
You just told us to trust you by looking at previous games. Sadly it's exam time and we don't got that time to spend, we in a spot where it is hard to trust people right now.
In the case, how do you know you or I are not mafia. We don't, so please don't just make decelerations with out backing it up!
I'm sorry if i missed some of your posts that in one or two cases do back up what you say, so if you do have some, please refer me to them so I can read.
I also don't assume I think we all juts trust Qatol like idiots. We are going with the best answer.
Either case, you seem to be dropping suspicion on Jeejee a bit to much in your defense for him. I can understand defending him, but do you even have a reason to almost ignore the possibly that he even mafia?
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I'm not defending JeeJee as much as you think I am. I've said he may be mafia, but Qatol may be also.
I have no reason to trust the PMs and I don't even really care because of the fact that Qatol is trying to push a double lynch on sketchy suspects. That raises a flag far more than some PM from Bockit that really doesn't mean shit at this point. You are trying to find some way of figuring out mafia by reading people's minds and behavior when you've got a big sign in front of you thats easier to deal with.
I've defended people plenty of times hardcore (see the mikeymoo incident with BC). It's not because I always think those people are innocent off the bat, but because I see a far more dangerous play being made ahead of time taking the town in the wrong direction. Me defending JeeJee has 0 bearing on my innocene - I pretty much do as I please without caring what any of you will perceive me as because:
A.) I know I'm innocent
B.) I know nobody can even come close to showing me as mafia
C.) I'm confident that if anyone dared to try I can out debate them and prove them wrong
^_^
See, it's easy to play reckless when you're innocent.
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Tricode, what exactly is the pm evidence? I didn't want to read through a ton of crap in the pm and all i've seen as evidence for jeejee is "bockit defended jeejee in pm" (not talking about him, changing the subject, etc), not even outright defending him.
do you have any more evidence against him? There's plenty more connections on tons of other people, especially monoxide and quickstriker. I'm not saying either is guilty, but the lead on jeejee is *very* weak.
I also disagree with the double lynch because we have a few very thin arguments against a large number of people. The double lynches are extremely powerful later on and there's no reason to use them now. Lynching one person right now is a stab in the dark and the rest of the town thinks we can have two GOOD lynches tomorrow?
the point of a double lynch is to get TWO mafia, not to *hope* to get one mafia and one townie.
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On April 28 2009 10:56 Ace wrote:
I'm not defending JeeJee as much as you think I am. I've said he may be mafia, but Qatol may be also.
I have no reason to trust the PMs and I don't even really care because of the fact that Qatol is trying to push a double lynch on sketchy suspects. That raises a flag far more than some PM from Bockit that really doesn't mean shit at this point. You are trying to find some way of figuring out mafia by reading people's minds and behavior when you've got a big sign in front of you thats easier to deal with.
I've defended people plenty of times hardcore (see the mikeymoo incident with BC). It's not because I always think those people are innocent off the bat, but because I see a far more dangerous play being made ahead of time taking the town in the wrong direction. Me defending JeeJee has 0 bearing on my innocene - I pretty much do as I please without caring what any of you will perceive me as because:
A.) I know I'm innocent
B.) I know nobody can even come close to showing me as mafia
C.) I'm confident that if anyone dared to try I can out debate them and prove them wrong
^_^
See, it's easy to play reckless when you're innocent.
^I appreciate this more then when i read you declaring if we lynch Jeejee you will stop playing.
I can understand what you are saying, but like i said, 2 major flaws I have right now is that I am still kinda new to the game and second I don't really know any of you, so seeing something odd about Qatol is fine.
Either case I might abstain my vote for now but I don't think those pms should be ignored for now just like how you might not ignore the suspicion you have of Qatol for now.
With that being said, what do you think of the probable clue on Versatile? I noticed votes are being changed from JeeJee to versatile who was another suspect.
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EPT
