EPTTL Mafia V: The Wrath of KHAAAAAANN - Page 5
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Malongo
Chile3468 Posts
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
On December 31 2008 06:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Thats the same logic you used in game 3 to save yourself from being killed from folca's dt check. One that then and even now doesn't make too much sense. Hence why you would use it against him now. Why would Ace + myself put ourselves in the line of fire to save me? It's such a bad move by two good players. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
I think BC's behavior is bogus and too stupid for someone like him but at the same time lynching him is rather dumb as well. I'm still waiting on people to check me/ace. You guys all asleep? Jack better be using DT powers first day too. Wait can jack possibly be insane? That wasn't made clear earlier. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Anytime on the first day any person jumps out and claims DT and that they've found someone they should be lynched. The burden of proof is on your death, not mikeymoos. Secondly I know you're smarter than that. No matter who you checked this game, they've got a high chance of flipping red if you're an insane DT. Which puts a big fucking hole in your entire role claim. See, if you REALLY wanted to find out whether you were sane or not, you would have waited to see who was going to get lynched on Day 2, and then before he died role check him. Check what color his blood spills, compare it with Mikeymoo and THEN reveal yourself. But you didn't. Killing you first stops any mafia in any game from false role claiming DT on the first day. If they know it's a sure fire way to get lynched they just won't try it often. What you're suggesting is killing mikeymoo first (lol) and then if he really does flip townie you can always say lulz, guess I was an Insane DT. When the real DTs check you and find you're mafia they can't come out safely without exposing themselves unless they find a mouthpiece. Of course they can't because they used their Day 1 rolecheck on someone else, and the Day 2 check on your ass. Since you weren't lynched and neither was their Day 1 check they still don't know if they are sane or not, hence they are still fucking confused. Your idea is the one that makes 0 sense. You always lynch the person accusing on Day 1 because all the relevant questions will be answered with YOUR death - not mikeymoo's. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 31 2008 06:26 mikeymoo wrote: Hence why you would use it against him now. Why would Ace + myself put ourselves in the line of fire to save me? It's such a bad move by two good players. For similar reasons to malongo doing it half assed last game, save one of his compadres if your red, or in the case your green sticking his neck out for you now to gain your trust, or in the case your green and hes red, him sticking his head to get himself inside a townie circle. There are multiple reasons for a player like ace to do so, as he thinks each act through as he does them in mafia. | ||
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Jimtudor
Canada259 Posts
On December 31 2008 06:29 Ver wrote: The problem with this is that the lynch doesn't solve anything effectively. See JL13's post. With mikeymoo's rebuttal there is no possible way that both are on the town's side. Either one or both are lying. Imagine if there's another RoL/Ace incident? I think BC's behavior is bogus and too stupid for someone like him but at the same time lynching him is rather dumb as well. I'm still waiting on people to check me/ace. You guys all asleep? Jack better be using DT powers first day too. Wait can jack possibly be insane? That wasn't made clear earlier. Caller clarified it in a post that the jack is sane. | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
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0cz3c
United States564 Posts
On December 31 2008 04:19 Other People wrote: Other People's Townalysis The picture is no longer a picture. Now, the picture is a music video. Music. Hmmm. Sounds fishy. Or, I ought to say, Artanis[xp]. This mafia has decided to advertise a music sharing website (or something of the sort) in his profile. How strong would this clue be? Very strong. There seems to be another mafia connected to this music video. Clazziquai. Gotchya clazz. Sorry. And then, of course, we find that inertinept is mafia as well. Just look at his blogs. I see lots of music videos. What an easy and obvious connection. Let's gogo lynch these guys! BUT THERE'S MORE Caller intentionally leaves this phrase in several times: "Showin' How Funky Strong Is Your Fight." He does this for a simple reason. In it, with careful and correct analysis, we bag two more of 'em. "Showin'" points to Showtime!. Sorry Showtime!, there will be no show for you this time around ! And who could forget about the word "funky"? I certainly couldn't, and that's why I've taken the initiative to catch the fifth mafia. Of course, it's Funkie. You've certainly lost the groove this time, funkie. Better luck next time. Right now, you must think that I'm on a roll. And I am. I'm really rolling. I hope I don't hit a rock. That would hurt. These attackers seem vicious...aggressive...perhaps..........HYPER? Therefore, on the sixth lynch, let's get hyperbola. That will significantly lower the mafia killing power. These clues seems very easy for me to dissect. I'll help you guys some more in a few hours.  I think we should look back at what other people have said so far regarding possible lynchings before we proceed any further. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 31 2008 06:29 Ace wrote: It always made sense. Even in game 3 it made sense. Anytime on the first day any person jumps out and claims DT and that they've found someone they should be lynched. The burden of proof is on your death, not mikeymoos. Secondly I know you're smarter than that. No matter who you checked this game, they've got a high chance of flipping red if you're an insane DT. Which puts a big fucking hole in your entire role claim. See, if you REALLY wanted to find out whether you were sane or not, you would have waited to see who was going to get lynched on Day 2, and then before he died role check him. Check what color his blood spills, compare it with Mikeymoo and THEN reveal yourself. But you didn't. Killing you first stops any mafia in any game from false role claiming DT on the first day. If they know it's a sure fire way to get lynched they just won't try it often. What you're suggesting is killing mikeymoo first (lol) and then if he really does flip townie you can always say lulz, guess I was an Insane DT. When the real DTs check you and find you're mafia they can't come out safely without exposing themselves unless they find a mouthpiece. Of course they can't because they used their Day 1 rolecheck on someone else, and the Day 2 check on your ass. Since you weren't lynched and neither was their Day 1 check they still don't know if they are sane or not, hence they are still fucking confused. Your idea is the one that makes 0 sense. You always lynch the person accusing on Day 1 because all the relevant questions will be answered with YOUR death - not mikeymoo's. For someone of this cold logic, where was it in game 4 ace? You guys get the myserious role claim and nail ver on it. Not the dt who gave you the info. In every game on day one a DT who roleclaims, Especially in this case, gives information to every other dt playing. Yes they use their day 1 checks, and at that point they aren't sure if they are the real DT or not. As of this lynch that is determined instantly, so yes, there is a high possibility he is green and I am insane, but at the same time, it clears the other DT's for tommorrow and allows them to pm any information they have to people without the fear of further proof. With his death the rest of the dt's know their alignment, I guarentee know mine, and it gets rid of someone who potentially can screw the town almost as badly as you, ver, or camlitos would if you were red and inside any town circles. Do I agree that it could have been best served to wait a day or so? Yes, but at the same time, Day 1 helps set the tempo for the rest of the game, if we take eons without a dt exposing anything on Day 1 we end up killing someone on faulty clue work, its retarded. Behaviour analysis also isn't good on day 1 without something like this happening as people will just stay quiet, eventually people abstain and someone with 1-2 votes gets lynched(Yes even if 99% of the town abstains someone will still hang unless caller changed the game rules from last game). This is one of those times that yes I will die most likely for it, but the information coming from it is more than worth it. You yourself act on these as well, and take more faith from the information coming through 1-2 people rather than the voice itself, there's no logic in that. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
On December 31 2008 06:29 Ace wrote: Your idea is the one that makes 0 sense. You always lynch the person accusing on Day 1 because all the relevant questions will be answered with YOUR death - not mikeymoo's. I still think there's a good chance of BC being the village idiot and copying RoL's strategy. If this turns out to be true, we know nothing about mikeymoo besides that he thought claiming blue was a good idea (he could easily still be mafia or green). On the bright side, lynching the idiot is better than lynching a real role, and getting him out of the way would be more helpful than harmful. If BC is actually a detective, what do we learn by lynching him? We still won't know whether he was insane or not and we won't know whether mikey was lying about being a blue. If we lynch mikey and he turns up blue, BC is either mafia or the idiot. If he's green, BC is either mafia or insane. If he turns up red, BC is either a real DT or a mafia ploy. Lynching either of them has 1 good outcome (hitting a mafia) and a bunch of bad outcomes that kill a green/blue and give us no real information. Having a DT come forward with an early roleclaim and mafia finding worked well in many of the past games and has been reliable. I'm not convinced that mikey claiming blue was a good defense or that he is sincere about it so I'm leaning towards voting for him and not BC. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
The DTs are NOT cleared tomorrow. If Mikeymoo dies and flips green, that does not tell us anything about you. Which means some DT still has to RC YOU. Which means thats 2 rolechecks down the drain for a DT and thats assuming mikeymoo is going to get lynched. Thats a terrible trade for someone who could potentially be mafia from the town's POV. Hell, even if everything went right and the DTs figured out whether they are sane or not they can't PM anything to anyone except on blind trust because they have no more abilities to use. In a game with this much fatal roles, that'd be suicide. And also in Game 4 I took the word from Qatol because I got it from Caller, and Scaramanga also knew. That's 3 people that find out from the DT. That's a lot of pressure on him if something goes wrong and I was confident enough in my ability that if all 3 of them were mafia they'd have just gotten themselves killed. Which means it was most likely true. anyway onto something that bugs me about the way things happen around here: A general piece of mafia advice If anyone claims they are a DT on day one and says they have found a mafia member - lynch them. Always. This is critical. If you always lynch the accused, then mafia will always just have someone roleclaim DT on Day 1, claim someone like myself or Ver is mafia and watch the town lynch us. Then when you lynch the mafia for lying you feel like morons. If Myself/Ver flips red you still have no idea about the DT. However, if you lynch the accuser first you ALWAYS know what the accused role is. ALWAYS. This is crucial. If you do this consistently mafia will hesitate to DT claim on the first day in future games knowing they will get lynched. It also prevents our DTs from role claiming so early without building a solid deck of proof and finding a mouthpiece with their other day2 and day3 abilities. This logic will always work. Do NOT lynch the person being accused. It tells you nothing unless they just happen to flip blue, which means you fucked up anyway. Now why would you want to go down that road? | ||
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JL13
United States1384 Posts
Lynch BC first (DTs potentially clear themselves before the next day's voting = good) Lynch BC second (DTs potentially clear themselves day 3 = not as good as lynching BC first) I agree with your logic so far. 1) If BC is DT (which I hope is the case) a) other DTs clear alignments after Night Phase. - if BC is confirmed insane.... then mikeymoo is green - if BC is confirmed sane.... then mikeymoo is red BUT mikeymoo claims himself blue, so if BC is also blue, I think there's a sure mafia hit in mikeymoo regardless because mikeymoo defended himself poorly as a mafia. b) mikeymoo is blue (which mikey claims and no one else has said otherwise) and BC was going out on a whim (which I hope is not the case and I don't think is the case) 2) If BC is mafia a) mikeymoo is more likely innocent than guilty -if innocent, mikeymoo claims he's blue -if guilty, nice act (BC and mikey) 3) If BC is village idiot a) waste of my time T_T 4) BC is any other role besides DT/mafia/Village Idiot a) mikeymoo's alignment is completely unknown With scenario 1 or 2, i think they both die... Mikeymoo... why did you roleclaim yourself blue? But I think I agree with Ace? Lynch BC first? | ||
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On December 31 2008 06:48 ShadowDrgn wrote: I still think there's a good chance of BC being the village idiot and copying RoL's strategy. If this turns out to be true, we know nothing about mikeymoo besides that he thought claiming blue was a good idea (he could easily still be mafia or green). On the bright side, lynching the idiot is better than lynching a real role, and getting him out of the way would be more helpful than harmful. If BC is actually a detective, what do we learn by lynching him? We still won't know whether he was insane or not and we won't know whether mikey was lying about being a blue. If we lynch mikey and he turns up blue, BC is either mafia or the idiot. If he's green, BC is either mafia or insane. If he turns up red, BC is either a real DT or a mafia ploy. Lynching either of them has 1 good outcome (hitting a mafia) and a bunch of bad outcomes that kill a green/blue and give us no real information. Having a DT come forward with an early roleclaim and mafia finding worked well in many of the past games and has been reliable. I'm not convinced that mikey claiming blue was a good defense or that he is sincere about it so I'm leaning towards voting for him and not BC. Why would anyone of us really care if BC is sane or not at this point? It does not matter. He could have figured that out in a ton of different ways. Just about anyone you investigate has a high chance of being red if you're insane. So whatever BC says after that does not matter. MikeyMoo could claim to be purple for all I care - you do NOT lynch him. Ever. The burden of proof is on BC, NOT mikeymoo. If he's mafia fine, but we'll know for sure after BCs death. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
However, if you lynch the accuser first you ALWAYS know what the accused role is. ALWAYS. This is crucial. False. RoL gets lynched first. You could still have been green, blue or red. False. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
If RoL was blue or red, you would have known my role with his lynch. You can't say the reverse is true. And if BC is a VI just lynch him anyway so he can get his picture and the town can proceed without him. | ||
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mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
On December 31 2008 07:01 JL13 wrote: With scenario 1 or 2, i think they both die... Mikeymoo... why did you roleclaim yourself blue? But I think I agree with Ace? Lynch BC first? By roleclaiming blue, whenever I die (or if a DT checks me), people will realize they can trust everything that I said. Also, as I'm not a DT or Jack, mafia doesn't gain all too much by killing me on Night 1. Okay now I'm out. For real. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On December 31 2008 07:00 Ace wrote: In game 4 I was a mouthpiece, not the DT. So lynching me wouldn't solve anything. Hence, this is not the same scenario. Your example fails. The DTs are NOT cleared tomorrow. If Mikeymoo dies and flips green, that does not tell us anything about you. Which means some DT still has to RC YOU. Which means thats 2 rolechecks down the drain for a DT and thats assuming mikeymoo is going to get lynched. Thats a terrible trade for someone who could potentially be mafia from the town's POV. Hell, even if everything went right and the DTs figured out whether they are sane or not they can't PM anything to anyone except on blind trust because they have no more abilities to use. In a game with this much fatal roles, that'd be suicide. And also in Game 4 I took the word from Qatol because I got it from Caller, and Scaramanga also knew. That's 3 people that find out from the DT. That's a lot of pressure on him if something goes wrong and I was confident enough in my ability that if all 3 of them were mafia they'd have just gotten themselves killed. Which means it was most likely true. anyway onto something that bugs me about the way things happen around here: A general piece of mafia advice If anyone claims they are a DT on day one and says they have found a mafia member - lynch them. Always. This is critical. If you always lynch the accused, then mafia will always just have someone roleclaim DT on Day 1, claim someone like myself or Ver is mafia and watch the town lynch us. Then when you lynch the mafia for lying you feel like morons. If Myself/Ver flips red you still have no idea about the DT. However, if you lynch the accuser first you ALWAYS know what the accused role is. ALWAYS. This is crucial. If you do this consistently mafia will hesitate to DT claim on the first day in future games knowing they will get lynched. It also prevents our DTs from role claiming so early without building a solid deck of proof and finding a mouthpiece with their other day2 and day3 abilities. This logic will always work. Do NOT lynch the person being accused. It tells you nothing unless they just happen to flip blue, which means you fucked up anyway. Now why would you want to go down that road? If you lynch me first I flip up detective, but why would caller say i flip as the insane detective, thats a give away to the rest of the detectives at no cost. This can help clear by day 2. If for arguments sake there are 3 dt's as per normal games(remember for arguments sake) To make 2 of those insane, or for the love of god 3 of them, caller is stacking the game in favour of the mafia. As i don't think he would do that chances are high there are only 1 insane dt (possibly 2 if there are more than 3 dts). We already have 3 role checks a piece which is 1 higher than in previous games, giving us essentially 1 rolecheck to help verify our own alignment, if we each spend 2-3 days figuring out if we are sane or not, we are pretty well fucked as a town. This provides us with a simple and effective way to help all the dts right now, making them know that the day 1 rolecheck they did is legit or not. As for being a mouthpiece? That is less credible than the DT taking the risk themself, as they can just go "oh shit the guy was townie, means my DT was insane or mafia lets lynch him" and suddenly 2 dead townies with 2 wasted lynches for one mafia in the end. Huge pay off. The fact that you blind trusted scara as well as caller with having qatol as mafia shows your own personal logic is completely flawed, it payed off for you but flawed. Mafia claiming dt mouth piece is alot simpler and more effective than claiming DT. My method gives dts to use a check today, and by tommorrow know if they are sane or not, as caller would risk way too much imbalance by having more than one insane dt, or by having 4-5 dts +jack just to have 2 insane dts as thats an insane amount of rolechecks. Meaning we most likely have myself and 2-3 other dts with one of us as insane. Mickey will flip red or green, and we find out some info/hurt mafia alot. This also helps get town organized, ffs Ace you know this as well as i do, yet our so against it, just as you are every game your mafia. Yet as town this is something you love to have happen. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
so we lynch BC if he is actually detective then mikeymoo cannot be blue. which leads us to the question: would a green townie or a red mafia be more likely to claim to be blue? | ||
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