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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On June 27 2018 06:40 ShoCkeyy wrote: meta doesn't exist in mafia forums imo, ive seen holyflare play some wild games, and have been on teams with him where he single handily fooled the entire town into lynching themselves for the win non stop. meta is a ridiculous excuse to label some one town.
Bit of an exceptional case imo.
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On June 27 2018 05:24 Conversion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 05:15 Tictock wrote:On June 27 2018 00:45 Calix wrote: I also hate your last line and not because it's mafia-indicative but because it means that yet ANOTHER person is not willing to work with me -___- Don't take it as that, I'm just going gung-ho with my initial reads this game rather than being a tad passive in the early stages. Always open to re-evaluation. As such, while nothing has stood out to me as clearly Town!Calix I no longer think you are lock scum. Though it's just me being swayed by tone more than anything specific really. I think I am going with the strategy of building a solid group of people I think are town and sorting out the Mafia from the remainder this phase. Right now I think my town list is Rayn, Cake, Mocsta, and I'm probably going to add HF and Conversion but am less sure about them atm (though I'm pretty unlikely to want to lynch them today regardless). why am I a waffle town
Mostly kus you keep questioning why people townread you, seems like an odd thing to do as mafia.
The rest of your play I could go either way about. I seem to recall you having a decent mafia game, and in general I have little experience playing with you.
Based on my instinct though you are pretty likely to be town here, I just have very little reason to back that up.
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Im re-reading the game before continuing where I finished last night (circa p13). Apologies if this is cock-blocking active discussion.
+ Show Spoiler [Quotes] +Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 08:15 Calix wrote: It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that.[/] [B]On June 26 2018 09:50 Regfan wrote: I've played a little over 20 games, although most of them I wouldn't qualify as real games. I'm from Westeros, where we play alted games with usually pretty short deadlines. Regfan has been mentoring me for a while now, and my love for process comes from him. I'm good at some of the things he's terrible at, like having a personality, and he's good at some of the things I'm terrible at (nothing comes to mind right now), so we complement each other pretty well I think. -G
I'm going to go out on a limb that Regfan is town because of this interaction (and how important it is to Gemma later in D1 when talking to Rayn).
Gemma got so "horny" to share some info about herself - which in her mind is pivotal to town success; that she later interprets the post from Calix to be (positively) conclusive; when merely it is asking for token info that could be discerned as the game progresses.
I can't picture a world where mafia would BOTH lap up the opportunity to talk about themselves AND strongly advocate the post as a basis for town+scum reads. Definitely one or the other, but not both.
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On June 27 2018 06:43 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 06:40 ShoCkeyy wrote: meta doesn't exist in mafia forums imo, ive seen holyflare play some wild games, and have been on teams with him where he single handily fooled the entire town into lynching themselves for the win non stop. meta is a ridiculous excuse to label some one town. Bit of an exceptional case imo.
Then all your games seem to be “exceptional”
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Sharing info about one self is not indicative if someone or mafia tbh.
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##Vote: Calix
+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +On June 26 2018 08:06 Calix wrote: Sup, long time no see. Fancy randomly bandwagoning some AFK person for the lulz? On June 26 2018 08:14 Tictock wrote: On second thought, lets vote Regfan, purely for having an obscene prepared post, that I will prob never read. On June 26 2018 08:15 Calix wrote: It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that. On June 26 2018 10:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Calix literally didn't take a stance on anything since the conclusion says "not alignment indicative". Which is by the way the opposite you claimed a conclusion towards your post should be in the first place. Secondly, the conclusion sucks even more since the first paragraph of her post includes an indirect assumption that your hydra is town, which again contradicts clearly to the conclusion she has made. There is no reason to believe, in case your post is pre-written, that you do not believe you have a cop check on N0 as a cop so a smart person, instead of making that post would instead of writing a nice looking nice sounding nonsense post ask "why don't you wanna claim your check right now?" If you think people who are being nice are more likely to be town and people who are not nice are not, then you have a very terrible view of what this game is about. Also if what you said here: Show nested quote +...did it in a way that contributed to discussion in a healthy way [...] which feels like a town thing ..if you actually believe this, then you should probably call yourself mafia for the very first post you made this game. On June 26 2018 10:49 Tictock wrote: I'm not sure I saw anything in Calix's post that made the assumption that Gemma-Reg is town, but I overall agree with rayn here.
Calix's switch in stance from "lets rando vote someone for lol's" to "thats not AI, don't vote" seemed sudden to me. Especially when my suggestion to pile votes on Reg had nothing to do with alignment. I feel slightly hypocritical here though, kus I switched my own stance of "I don't wanna vote pointlessly" to off the cuff voting someone just kus they did something I think is stupid.
Actually maybe I do see what you mean here Rayn, there is no way Calix should be able to make any assumption about when Reg prepared that post. PM's went out an hour before the game started so there was plenty of time to decide to do something like that after getting a role, and there should be no real way to tell when someone makes that call.
Anyways, I'll optimistically call Rayn and Mocsta town here. On June 26 2018 10:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: If the underlined part is really what Calix believes, there is no reason to assume a mafia fakecliming to be a cop would not believe they don't have a N0 check (since that's how it clearly works where Gemma usually plays, and there are indications of that for anyone whop has ever played anywhere else since it's almost always how it works).
So instead of writing the post off as non-alignment indicative any smart person -- again, believing what Calix clearly implies here -- would try to possibly catch a mafia in a lie by asking "so why don't you wanna claim your check now?"
Calix has struck me as a player who digs into stuff and small discrepancies even when they possibly don't matter (especially in the game where i was mafia with bugs and oats), and this "ignorance" towards a possibly revealing discussion seems very un-Calix-like.
I have highlighted key parts of the quotes in red, as I do believe this is a genuine scum slip/town tell & may have gone over most peoples heads.
(1) Calix requests random vote bandwagon (2) Regfan posts a fake post (3) TT requests to vote Regfan (implied to Calix) (4) Calix provides "analysis of Regfan post" by commenting on validity of cop claim (5) Other posters comment on "Regfan post" by simply stating "copypasta"
What I find critical about this sequence of events is that: - Calix cop claim assessment doesn't consider a world where Regfan is mafia and fake-posting, instead - Calix auto-assumes a world where Regfan is cop or VT
This is important because Calix is changing gears from "random vote" to "analysis before vote" to provide this contribution that is in essence providing town-lean evidence to upgrade from scummy to NULL.
This only satisfies mafia agenda. You provide authentic contribution (i.e. town read), make a potential ally in Regfan, and possibly start a wagon on those that scum read Regfan.
I think the townier way to go about the fake-post was what others did. Comment that its a copy/paste and move on. In a world where you only have your PM that is green or blue; how do you read into that fake-post any further.... well, you cant.
So why does Calix then go out on a limb so early? Why jump to the conclusion that a fake-post is from town land only? Why change gears in the first place?
I absolutely understand why town and scum would not want to random vote; but I cannot comprehend why any town would want to feign a care-free attitude to then ditch it immediately.
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I haven't read up but I just wanted to respond to rayn quickly before I head off to work.
Regfan doesn't proof my posts before I post them and I don't proof his. We don't always know what the other person is going to post. When I was pushing on you, he was at his girlfriend's house, and he wasn't really available. He sent me a message around the time I made my first post saying your read on CopCake made no sense, but he hadn't read up and we didn't talk about anything else. I don't know what he's going to think about any of that until he finds time to read it and let me know. He told me that he wants to take point in reading you, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to have my own read on you or try to figure you out, and he also wants me more in charge of figuring out scum reads / our lynch for today while he takes care of townreads more. It just suits our respective strengths to do it this way.
There has been very very little I have disagreed with him about, so pretty much everything he has posted you can take as me having that read too. We both felt bad about you at similar points, him slightly before me, then felt good about you at the same time (I started off by immediately calling you town based on your push on my copypasta, and he said it wasn't AI because of meta stuff and actually was really worried about what you were doing). We both felt good about TT at the same time. We both felt bad about mocsta at the same time and we both great about him at the same time. We both felt bad about CopCake at the same time. All of them for very similar reasons. I didn't like some of his reasoning on mocsta early, and I thought some of his other reasoning was bad (he said something like the "you're never going to lynch me" was townie, which feels like a typical meaningless thing that Regfan will read into in the wrong way early because he sucks at mafia), and he thought some of the things I posted were bad (there's generally going to be a bigger ratio of that, because I do more things that he dislikes than he does things that I dislike, mostly due to playstyle differences), but that's about it.
I'm including his knowledge that you and CopCake are dating as meta knowledge, I guess. And you've not exactly been a small presence so far.
I don't really know what else to say other than you're wrong? That's not really helpful for you, though. If you want to quote posts that don't make sense to you together then that might help, but I don't understand how you think that we've had different opinions when the only time our opinions have been out of sync has been when we're not caught up together. Like, one of the main things that we've done this game is voice our concerns early about mocsta, and we were both looking at pretty much the exact same things at the same time, which we both posted about, and which we then realized were wrong at the same time. All of that is in the game thread, except I didn't +1 our mocsta townread, and I was annoyed that he wasn't reading us properly and took longer to feel completely sold on it.
It could be inexperience dealing with hydras? I'm not sure if you expect both of us to just say the exact same things all the time or not, but that doesn't really make sense, it would be annoying and redundant for everyone else to read if we just went "yes I agree with my hydra partner here is a slightly different telling of that same read" all game. We both focus on slightly different things and divide the work so that we can get more done and express both our individual perspectives properly.
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On June 27 2018 08:33 Regfan wrote: I'm including his knowledge that you and CopCake are dating as meta knowledge, I guess. And you've not exactly been a small presence so far.. That could be important as the game progresses. At some stage, someone said CC asking Rayn "am I town/mafia" was a town-tell. Now it is definitively null.
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(And by playstyle differences I mean Regfan is better at the game than I am and also has higher standards. I'm completely fine to just post whatever the fuck is on my mind at that moment even if it sucks and I hate it an hour later, Regfan would never post something until it passed all his diagnostics without any error messages, beep boop boop.)
-G
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This is my chance to nitpick
look at the red & focus on the underline.
This is a vote with supporting "case", and the key component has a qualifier inserted in it.
This suggests to me a lack of confidence (or self-authenticity) behind the post; yet it is drafted aggressively with confidence.
Sometimes, its the devil in the details, and given that Calix had no pressure on her at the time, I see no reason for a townie to feel compelled to release a case with that qualifier.
On June 26 2018 16:06 Calix wrote: ##Vote: CopCake
Two reasons for this:
1) Asks stupid questions. This is self-explanatory. She hasn't asked anything that would actually advance the game forward. But they are questions you make when you want to LOOK like you're doing things.
2) Makes excuses for way too many players in way too short a time period which she is probably doing because she has TMI and knows that the players are being genuine.
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On June 27 2018 08:44 Regfan wrote: (And by playstyle differences I mean Regfan is better at the game than I am and also has higher standards. I'm completely fine to just post whatever the fuck is on my mind at that moment even if it sucks and I hate it an hour later, Regfan would never post something until it passed all his diagnostics without any error messages, beep boop boop.)
-G Please comment on my posts on the p22
Thnx
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On June 27 2018 08:45 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 08:44 Regfan wrote: (And by playstyle differences I mean Regfan is better at the game than I am and also has higher standards. I'm completely fine to just post whatever the fuck is on my mind at that moment even if it sucks and I hate it an hour later, Regfan would never post something until it passed all his diagnostics without any error messages, beep boop boop.)
-G Please comment on my posts on the p22 Thnx It looks too logic-heavy for me to parse when I'm heading out the door sorry but I like Calix votes right now based on how he was positioning himself on CopCake last night.
-G
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It also felt like he was trying to pocket me while I pushed on Cake/rayn, ftr.
-G
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On June 26 2018 23:48 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 12:41 Mocsta wrote:On June 26 2018 12:30 Regfan wrote: @Mocsta - Not a non-native at all, but think reading up/catching up on whatever has been missed (regardless of the length of it) is "catching up on the game". You're very much missing my concern with your play here, it's not that I take issue with your questioning of CopCake there, mentioned it twice now, when I look at the individual posts they seem mostly reasonable, it's just the progression/body of work so to speak where I'm stumped with you and left going "Huuhh" with.
I can't follow what your reads are on the players here or why you're thinking what you are. I'm fully aware that others think about the game quite differently than I do, I'm also very aware that the meta on TL is hugely different to most of the places I've played at. That doesn't change the fact that when attempting to get a read on someone (No matter who/where it is) I need to be able to see "Oh they're doing A for B" or "They think C due to D/E", I don't need to agree with the reasoning of why you've got somewhere or have a particular read for it to be a real/genuine read from them, I do need to see that it exists. I don't even have a strong scum read on you here at all, I'm very much in a headspace where I'm just gathering data to try and work out/solve the game right now and having others comment on your playstyle (Plus I'm planning on reading through 1-2 of your town/scum games when I get a chance to be able to work it out myself) will help me massively when it comes to you.
- R i find it startling that given all that has occured jn the thread. That i am of your primary concern. I suspect if you town we are at an impasse. Im not going to share all my thoights on this game. Only those i think thatvare relevant or those i am asked about and care to share. If you doubt my intention i would expect you to probe me on why i acted a certain way. Instead you arensoliciting other opinion. Frankly this comes across to me as suspect. Puppeteer behind the curtain type stuff. I dont think my past games will help much either. I entered this game with diffeerent jntebtions to others and so far think i am living up to them. If you must know and have not realiaed. I was suspicious of cupcake because he toom such an early strong stance. This is reflected in my posts.... Mocsta, what was the most interesting thing to you in the thread when you wrote this? IIRC, HF/tt & Regfan/Calix & Cupcake/Rayn
Those positions were as laid out as they could be at that point in time, so meh.
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On June 27 2018 00:35 Tictock wrote: Not a fan of Calix's case on Cake. Partially kus I think Cake is almost lock town for me.
Her points feel more nitpickey than insightful though, like she isn't sure how or what to address in the game. Her first point is weak as both Town and Mafia can ask weak questions, and I disagree that Cake hasn't done anything to advance the game. She has clearly given her own opinions and seems to be openly weighing in on things.
I think I need Calix to give better examples of what she means by Cake making excuses for others kus I don't know what she is referring too.
The pointing out inactives stuff is weak as well. I've seen both mafia and town do this so it is not very AI. The point would be stronger if that was ALL cake had posted, but it is far from the only thought Cake has presented so I find this pretty underwhelming.
Kinda disappointed, I think Calix likely rolled mafia this game and is struggling with her time constraints. Was hoping to play with her as town. What I haven't seen anyone comment is that CopCake only mentioned inactives because Regfan asked for town/scum read with gun2head.
The flow from that to, "hmmm, i have spoken about majority, whom is left" is quite transparent.
That Calix misconstrues this indicates a superficial filter dive.
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On June 27 2018 00:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 00:35 Tictock wrote: The pointing out inactives stuff is weak as well. I've seen both mafia and town do this so it is not very AI. The point would be stronger if that was ALL cake had posted, but it is far from the only thought Cake has presented so I find this pretty underwhelming. I didn't touch this before for someone else to debunk that shit aswell. well this isn't exactly it but like.. If you read Cake's posts she has either a townread or "non-scumread" on every player who has posted so far other than Calix, Holyflare and Regfan. Regfan is already at least "moderately pressured" by Mocsta at the time. Calix is the same, by me and Mocsta. If you don't think anyone else is mafia, who do you want to pressure as town? Lol Beat me 2 it.
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Ok I have time now
Btw I hope slenderman had posted because if not I am gonna feel dissapointed.
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I'm finally back around a computer, albeit at work. Going to try and catch up on the game and should have my thoughts posted in the next few hours, would be nice if I can try and schedule a time to catch up with Gemma and find out where her heads at in that time too. If anyone wants me to focus on anything in particular a little more when I'm reading through let me know.
- R
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sigh. im hesistant to spam p22 even further, so last one for a bit.
p20 I feel will have relevance to solving this game, following a few flips. Definitely some things starting to come out of the woodwork.
This is where i am at:
ShoCkeyy + Show Spoiler +Nothing. Not worth a lynch D1 with existing activity Holyflare + Show Spoiler + Classic town!HF for 2018 at least in my mind. I have no issues with his logic positions, and they are articulated well, without trying to jam it down your throat. I think the rayn/HF comments on me is overblown. HF position is similar to what i was with Regfan. i.e. acknowledge its not worth pursuing but still pay attention to out of caution Regfan + Show Spoiler + raynpelikoneet + Show Spoiler +His actions are lined up well with what i perceive his headspace to me Calix + Show Spoiler +Aside from the posts I made on p22 e.g. #426 I find Calix to echo thread sentiment very closely. This could be a coincidence, but I find a few things she is doing mimicking my posts - but with an aura of, im doing something someone townie did, so i should be townie too. Its coming across to me as fake. even the back-down into "maybe I OMGUS" seems a bit theatrical for my liking. Koshi + Show Spoiler +More like a 90% null, 10% scum lean, so very weak. I dont have a problem Koshi isnt active, this is somewhat consistent for him in recent games. Its more that the posts lack any type of passion of fun-factor. The "I dont give a fuck" feel is not present, even though the words are meant to communicate that. I wouldnt lynch over Calix Conversion + Show Spoiler +This is more the "I dont give a fuck" feel that Koshi is meant to have. I also like his transition circa p20 to discussing the game more seriously. Is turning stones others have mentioned in the thread and I like it. TheSlenderMan + Show Spoiler + Ticktock + Show Spoiler + I dont have issue with TT content, I more cannot get over how different his play this game is compared to my preconceived notion. How do i say.. i was expecting him to be more like a town Vivax? Will re-evaluate on d2 if i get to filter dive. Definitely havent seen anything beyond early game that makes me go "must lynch!". CopCake + Show Spoiler + Really consistent posting when querying the game, or responding to pressure and the timing of hipster town reads does not benefit mafia. Like, perhaps issuing one read is OK to feign contribution, but not to dismiss almost everyone that had posted. boxerfred + Show Spoiler + Vivax + Show Spoiler +Like Koshi, more a 90% null, 20% scum lean. Im pretty conflicted with Vivax and dont know how to articulate it. I think he is the type of personality that agitates me, so I am more inclined to negatively perceive him. Having said that, unless the agenda is to shit the thread, I dont see how what Vivax is doing benefits mafia; and I also dont know if this is within Vivax mafia range. Would evaluate on D2, and again, wouldnt lynch over Calix. For whatever reason I would probably also rather take a punt on a lurker afk (e.g. boxerfred/slender) then lynch Vivax on D1. I dont know how to explain why this is so. Perhaps because I find him to be a bit like HF in that once the dog has the bone, it will rarely be let go. So Vivax shoudl self-prove over time
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