EPTI felt pretty used, seeing as she admitted that spending time with me was like having all the benefits of dating without the commitment.
Couldn't you just do exactly the same in return? Why can't you just be her friend and have fun with her?Dating: How's your luck? - Page 886
| Forum Index > General Forum |
We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on. Posts of the following nature are banned: 1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post. 2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no. 3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture. 4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments. Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4411 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9233 Posts
If you like to go to the musical with her because it might be fun and not hurt you in some way, do. It is truly acceptable do take part in an activity that the person you are doing it with would have rather had their SO be a part of. Sure, it's kinda being second choice, but also maybe you're first choice after that special someone. That's nice imo. | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:17 Morfildur wrote: You aren't "going out" with her, you're just going to a musical with a friend. As long as you keep your emotions in check and don't push for more, is there any reason not to be friends with that girl? Men and women can be friends. It only gets difficult when either one tries to make it more, but since you know that she's not interested, you could be the only one making it difficult. Thanks. BY "going out" I simply met literally going out to see a musical. I don't see it as a date. It's more that I rather avoid the hassle of having to keep my emotions in check, and guarding myself. So perhaps it's a situation of "I don't see it as a date now, but I am worried that if I did go I'd start seeing it as a date of sorts". In part I have trouble trusting myself completely. On October 13 2016 23:19 Uldridge wrote: I know this is difficult, and I know this is perhaps not at all what you want, but, when you said: Couldn't you just do exactly the same in return? Why can't you just be her friend and have fun with her? I think this is a great point and I haven't seen it that way before. However now that you mention I think it's also an issue of opportunity cost, and what I'd rather do - which would be watching that musical on an actual date with someone that I cared more about. I think I'm at a stage in life where I rather not waste time on non-committal hanging out. I'd only take the time for that if it's a really close friend. | ||
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:30 Artisreal wrote: It is truly acceptable do take part in an activity that the person you are doing it with would have rather had their SO be a part of. Absolutely true. My best friend is often doing stuff with me, shopping, cinema, musicals and stuff, because her friend has a different taste in music and movies and is a terrible person to go shopping with, and so she rather does it with me. Doesn't mean that she doesn't love her SO, it just means that they aren't doing everything together. People can love each other without sharing all their interests and just because they share some interests doesn't mean that they'd have to be in a relationship together to do things together. | ||
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farvacola
United States18811 Posts
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bloodwhore~
1010 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:13 levelping wrote: Should I go out with her? I agree with the others. I wouldn't personally do it if it felt like she was just using me, or if I wasn't interested in her as a friend at all. That said, I don't know if you have any female friends, but they're pretty good to have. I dated one girl who now is my friend, and I've since then dated one of her friends and she has talked about how I should meet her friends back home tons of times. So it can be very beneficial for you to have her as a friend. Not only as a supplier of females to date, but having more friends is always nice. If you think you have your feelings under control I definitely think you should go. | ||
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MysteryMeat1
United States3288 Posts
You could say things are going well | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:13 levelping wrote: I'd like some thoughts. A few months ago, I was turned down by a girl. At the time, we had been spending a lot of time together and getting along really well so I thought I should ask her how she felt about us as more than friends. She said no, and also started seeing another guy shortly after. I felt pretty used, seeing as she admitted that spending time with me was like having all the benefits of dating without the commitment. Anyway that's the background. Since then I've kept some distance, and she's been doing her thing with the other guy. Tonight she messages me out of the blue asking me to catch a musical with her. I am under no impression that this is anything other than platonic. It sounds like she just wants to hang out with a friend. All the same, I can't help but feel like a stand-in for the guy she's seeing (whom I hear is a little boring and doesn't like musicals). I'm at the point where I think I've buried most of my affection for her. In fact having done so I don't really find her than interesting a person to spend time with anyway. Still I'm a bit worried that going out with her is just going to revive all kinds of issues I really rather not have to deal with. At the same time, I realise that I can't shut her out forever just because she rejected me, that would be terribly petty. Should I go out with her? Yes you are a stand-in and always will be. That's what called being friends is. If my female friend wants to pursue guys and I don't see her for 6 months that's cool, we're still friends and I understand - doesn't really work like romantic relationships imo (it was me who steered it into friend-only zone though which makes it easier I guess) Sometimes my friends and I spend a lot of time together, sometimes we don't and spent time with others but somehow we're there for each other when it matters, there's no quid-pro-quo really. That fact that she fucks one guy and he blows her off for a musical and you come in basically means you are her friend, like one of her girls so if it's fun and you want to go the the musical then go for it! It's important to not be one of the creepy guy friends always hoping that there might be something, pretending that you're not attracted to other women or avoiding the subjects of her relationship and yours altogether, just accept that 100% there's nothing that can happen between you two and start exploiting the fact that you can have a female friend to be honest with. You can start asking her about how to get girls, your trouble with getting proper chicks, what tips she'd give you from what you used on her, sex advice etc. And ask her to go out with you to help you pick up women, get you into her female circle of friends sometimes and things like that. There's so much value there! | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:57 farvacola wrote: The woman I'm pretty sure I'm going to marry doesn't like a ton of stuff I do, like arguing, playing video games, and posting on teamliquid. Our differences are what brought us together in the first place. This should be added as a sticky in the OP. Don't go out with her unless it's metallica. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:57 farvacola wrote: The woman I'm pretty sure I'm going to marry doesn't like a ton of stuff I do, like arguing, playing video games, and posting on teamliquid. Our differences are what brought us together in the first place. Trust me, it's better that way. The last thing that you want is for your significant other to be into all of the same stuff that you are. And FFS, the dumbest thing that a dude can do is get hung up on finding a girl who likes video games. Total folly. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
If she's good enough to be a really good friend and you want to fuck her, then probably a good pick. While friends don't all have to be into the same stuff, it's nice to get a balance of similarities and differences. | ||
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Titusmaster6
United States5933 Posts
On October 13 2016 23:13 levelping wrote: I'd like some thoughts. A few months ago, I was turned down by a girl. At the time, we had been spending a lot of time together and getting along really well so I thought I should ask her how she felt about us as more than friends. She said no, and also started seeing another guy shortly after. I felt pretty used, seeing as she admitted that spending time with me was like having all the benefits of dating without the commitment. Anyway that's the background. Since then I've kept some distance, and she's been doing her thing with the other guy. Tonight she messages me out of the blue asking me to catch a musical with her. I am under no impression that this is anything other than platonic. It sounds like she just wants to hang out with a friend. All the same, I can't help but feel like a stand-in for the guy she's seeing (whom I hear is a little boring and doesn't like musicals). I'm at the point where I think I've buried most of my affection for her. In fact having done so I don't really find her than interesting a person to spend time with anyway. Still I'm a bit worried that going out with her is just going to revive all kinds of issues I really rather not have to deal with. At the same time, I realise that I can't shut her out forever just because she rejected me, that would be terribly petty. Should I go out with her? No absolutely no. You are friendzoned. Do not give her the time and attention she needs while you get almost nothing out of it. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17678 Posts
On October 14 2016 20:12 Titusmaster6 wrote: No absolutely no. You are friendzoned. Do not give her the time and attention she needs while you get almost nothing out of it. As other people here have said, repeatedly, if you're okay with being friends, there is nothing wrong with the friendzone. Just have to put it out of your head that there is anything romantic going on. If you can't do that, then probably don't hang out with her, but if you can, enjoy being friends! | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
 It's important though (in my opinion) that both of you are very 100% aware that the relationship is fully platonic, and that no one is being 'mislead' (even not on purpose) A friend is a friend, whatever his/her gender | ||
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LemOn
United Kingdom8629 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On October 14 2016 12:33 xDaunt wrote: Trust me, it's better that way. The last thing that you want is for your significant other to be into all of the same stuff that you are. And FFS, the dumbest thing that a dude can do is get hung up on finding a girl who likes video games. Total folly. What if I'm self-absorbed and want to make out with my doppleganger? Put that in your pipe and smoke it! On October 14 2016 20:12 Titusmaster6 wrote: No absolutely no. You are friendzoned. Do not give her the time and attention she needs while you get almost nothing out of it. So he should respond by being petty over something that happened months ago? Then that proves she was right to friendzone him in the first place. On October 12 2016 08:02 NewSunshine wrote: Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what you're on about, in fact your replies to this story have raised more questions for me than answers. If you're convinced that, in this story, the girl's response - to a very reasonably-presented piece of information - had nothing to do with what she was actually saying, or any type of face-value logic, then - forget sex or gender, as a reasonable and sane human being - what is my response to this supposed to be? There are only two relevant aspects of her explosion: the intensity of the emotion and the accusations of being a phony. The car and the job are irrelevant content. She would do the same thing if the vehicle in question was a motorcycle/dune buggy/hydroplane/sailboat/spaceship. She's responding to a perceived incongruity between the guy at the coffee shop and the guy trying to explain something to her. The fact that said guy is explaining something to her is the incongruity. On October 12 2016 08:02 NewSunshine wrote: If I stay true to who I am and act in a way that's natural to me, and I attract someone and we hit it off like Impervious seemed to have, would it not then be extremely suspicious for that person to suddenly flip like a switch like that? To me, a reaction like that indicates some kind of baggage, and that's a totally valid reason for a reaction like that, and why such a relationship might not work out after all. Except your initial assumption is completely wrong (not to mention cliche, incredibly sexist, reductionist and anachronistic from a psychological standpoint). Positing someone is suffering from trauma or whatnot because you don't understand their actions is arrogant and self-serving. Here's an equally valid, more charitable explanation: she's naturally has strong emotions and swings between them on a dime. Or she is used to completely trusting her inclinations because no one curtailed them in the past (lenient parents, head of her social circle, etc.). Or she had a bad day at work and was eagerly looking forward to the date. But those are all explanations for her intensity, not why she blew up in the first place. Her behavior is as suspicious as when a hot girl randomly insults you in the middle of a fun conversation (which happens a lot), or when she takes inexplicable pleasure in frequently making fun of you in a relationship. Or when a woman gives you a response, you do it, and she gets mad. Or when she randomly turns from a sweetheart into an icy bitch or vice versa. Or when your wife gets pissed off over something seemingly inconsequential that you've neglected to do. This behaviors can be annoying and frustrating to deal with. But they are not illogical or signs of a broken person. On October 12 2016 08:02 NewSunshine wrote: In that case, crazy, scarred, baggage, whatever you want to call it, is this ultimately the sort of person I'm equipped to handle as I am right now? Because one episode of hysterical behavior automatically makes her crazy. Don't talk about being reasonable and sane if you don't even attempt to verify a consistent pattern of behavior before labeling someone as damaged goods. I have no idea if you are able to handle it. On October 12 2016 08:02 NewSunshine wrote: The way you respond seems to suggest that somehow there's something I(or Impervious) should have done differently, that somehow I could have been more understanding, and that would have changed the outcome. I think of myself as a calm, rational, understanding person, and I cannot fathom how I would approach a woman reacting that way to something totally inconsequential like that. Yes, there is. It's not obvious because it's not discussed a lot, and usually any tension is dismissed as the girl being irrational. Which is itself an irrational impulse. The trick is not getting sucked into her emotional state while also respecting her right to have those emotions. Of course there are lines of personal conduct she should not cross but those need to come from personal standards, not you compensating for your wounded ego. On October 12 2016 09:23 Impervious wrote: I also feel more confused right now. Here's the most likely scenario. This is more plausible than the girl being randomly crazy or emotionally damaged simply because her behavior doesn't fit your paradigm of how "normal" people behave. Girl meets you. You and her hang out. Girl has great time. She's really into you. Emotions are running high in her. You two leave the coffee shop. She starts kissing you. She asks where your car is. You say you have no car. She becomes puzzled. Naturally you want to make her feel better. You tell her the reasons why you don't own a car. You figure, "If she knows the reasons why I don't own a car, it will soothe her mind". You start listing all the pragmatic reasons why you don't own a car. You think you are doing her a favor. Sadly, you are ruining everything and you don't realize it.
Now she's feeling weird and kinda grossed out. Your interaction has gone south for no apparent reason; it's not like she's been passively deconstructing what was going on between you two. All she knows is she's not longer happy and you're not acting like the guy who was so charismatic and cool back at the coffee shop. Instead, you're doing your best to explain something she really doesn't give a shit about. Her puzzlement is simply a temporary state in that moment. It would disappear in 5 seconds if you simply stopped focusing on it. Now if she wasn't a highly emotional person (for whatever reason that is), she would carry that mistrust within rather than risk the possibility of embarrassing herself in public. But she can't help herself. Her indignity is too much to bear! How could such a reversal in him be possible? And since she doesn't know why she's so upset and disappointed, she focuses on the only relevant detail being discussed: the car. That whole rant is just an expression of feeling her trust has been betrayed. The content is not meaningful. This is what I meant when I said you were being too logical. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4137 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5904 Posts
On October 15 2016 00:55 CosmicSpiral wrote: Because one episode of hysterical behavior automatically makes her crazy. Don't talk about being reasonable and sane if you don't even attempt to verify a consistent pattern of behavior before labeling someone as damaged goods. I have no idea if you are able to handle it. Well, how about you not label me, because I'm not insinuating anything. Let's get that right, I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about, because you suggested a lot of things, without actually explaining anything. One episode of high emotion, maybe having an off day, maybe something gives her an unpleasant flashback and suddenly she's not in the same mental space, whatever it might be, a reaction like Impervious encountered is not something calm and rational, and is not something you handle by being calm and rational. And I know you may not like the connotation to it, but being crazy, and being ruled by one's emotions in the moment over calm and rational thinking, are really not that far apart. They're both void of a (very useful) rationality that governs our intelligent decision-making. If you've managed to be with the same person for a year or longer, I can guarantee it wasn't because you were both riding your emotions the whole time. Logic and rationality are a must, whichever way they manifest. And I know you're spending your time in this thread trying to justify what this one girl did, but assume you're right, she's not crazy in the slightest, and your explanation is spot on. Who knows, because I sure don't. Then what? What Impervious says is as valid as it gets, if that's just who she really is and how she operates, how is someone like him ever going to maintain anything with her? If they have opposing M.O.'s from the start, no amount of explaining or finger-pointing can - or should - make him feel worse about how he handled it. It's one thing to analyze why things fall apart with someone, it's altogether another thing to suggest that they should change who they are so that things go a little better, next time they happen to meet someone exactly like that person. In fact, I think that's extremely unhealthy. You have an altogether too harsh tone with the way you're analyzing this, and it's fine if you want to go into something people might not talk much about, but shitting on everyone in sight because you think you know something we don't doesn't help anything. In fact, you come off as extremely condescending in your suggestions and assumptions. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
On October 15 2016 11:51 NewSunshine wrote: Well, how about you not label me, because I'm not insinuating anything. Let's get that right, I'm just trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about, because you suggested a lot of things, without actually explaining anything. One episode of high emotion, maybe having an off day, maybe something gives her an unpleasant flashback and suddenly she's not in the same mental space, whatever it might be, a reaction like Impervious encountered is not something calm and rational, and is not something you handle by being calm and rational. And I know you may not like the connotation to it, but being crazy, and being ruled by one's emotions in the moment over calm and rational thinking, are really not that far apart. They're both void of a (very useful) rationality that governs our intelligent decision-making. If you've managed to be with the same person for a year or longer, I can guarantee it wasn't because you were both riding your emotions the whole time. Logic and rationality are a must, whichever way they manifest. And I know you're spending your time in this thread trying to justify what this one girl did, but assume you're right, she's not crazy in the slightest, and your explanation is spot on. Who knows, because I sure don't. Then what? What Impervious says is as valid as it gets, if that's just who she really is and how she operates, how is someone like him ever going to maintain anything with her? If they have opposing M.O.'s from the start, no amount of explaining or finger-pointing can - or should - make him feel worse about how he handled it. It's one thing to analyze why things fall apart with someone, it's altogether another thing to suggest that they should change who they are so that things go a little better, next time they happen to meet someone exactly like that person. In fact, I think that's extremely unhealthy. You have an altogether too harsh tone with the way you're analyzing this, and it's fine if you want to go into something people might not talk much about, but shitting on everyone in sight because you think you know something we don't doesn't help anything. In fact, you come off as extremely condescending in your suggestions and assumptions. Logic and rationality are a must, whichever way they manifest Hahaha where you got that from? On the other hand why would your super rational consciousness post opinions on internet then allow itself to get upset over it when someone with better knowledge tells how wrong they are? On the other hand isn't outright labelling women running high on emotions rightfully able to have moodswings and ruin people's day is in their nature and its annoying but we just have to deal with it kinda sexist Cosmic? | ||
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