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On December 18 2015 23:41 sanders1991 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other teams. EDIT: actually, I even do not watch the UEFA matches from teams from my country. Just MY team. Why to watch the low level play when there is high level play available? If Blizzard wanted to support SC2 foreign scene, they should do one more ban. They should forbid English casting of Korean leagues. Then, we all, who do not speak Koreans, would have to stop watching Korean tournaments and would be forced to watch the Welfare circuit. At the beginning, we would be angry, at the end, we would get used to it. I think alot of people like me only watch matches if their country is involved. i only watch champions league if one of the teams has a player from my country. i dont have interest in barcalona or what so ever. So i believe this new system will be better. Like lolm they are the worst region but has the most money and viewers.
esports are considerably less nationalist on the basis of everybody being the same on the interwebz.
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On December 19 2015 00:00 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays  Wanting equal opportunities for all is racist, but region locking something to keep out a certain nation is PC or what? You want to support local players, talk to the teams to create practice houses that are actually used for practice and not "content creation", create strict practice times, etc. Some teams, like EG, had the opportunity to do this but they didn't. Why? You think Koreans living in team houses make zilions of dollars or something? They make almost nothing until they can reach a very high level. THIS This exactly. Blizzard is actively punishing the Koreans that actually practice most of their day and view progaming as a profession. Instead, we are now rewarding the foreigners who keep on whining and causing drama. There's 80K flat out (+ all regionlocked tournaments) going to foreigners simply on the basis of being foreigner instead of Korean. It's so fucking racist you could even attempt pressing charges against Blizzard for this with a slim chance of success. It's such a disgrace I currently feel embarrassed to call this my favorite esport.
Press charges "with a slim chance of success"???
How deluded are you--there's no way you would win that.
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On December 18 2015 23:55 ejozl wrote:
People will just need to re-learn how to love watching non-Korean Starcraft. I imagine viewer counts will be low for a while, but definitely growth will be more visible.
I very much doubt it. Starcraft will never have the viewer counts like League, dota, hearthstone or CS regardless of foreigner or Korean dominated. It's simply not as accessible a game as those. If people think that viewership will rise to those levels they will be sadly mistaken. Because of those games accessibility, the numbers they have of an actual base of players that actually play the game is something that Starcraft can only dream of. More people watch those games simply because more people play them. Regardless of the changes that blizz makes to help foreigners, it still remains a hardcore RTS game that much fewer people are willing to play. Smaller player count will always equal a smaller viewer count.
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On December 19 2015 00:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 18 2015 22:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Wanting equal opportunities for all is racist, but region locking something to keep out a certain nation is PC or what? You want to support local players, talk to the teams to create practice houses that are actually used for practice and not "content creation", create strict practice times, etc. Some teams, like EG, had the opportunity to do this but they didn't. Why? You think Koreans living in team houses make zilions of dollars or something? They make almost nothing until they can reach a very high level. THIS This exactly. Blizzard is actively punishing the Koreans that actually practice most of their day and view progaming as a profession. Instead, we are now rewarding the foreigners who keep on whining and causing drama. There's 80K flat out (+ all regionlocked tournaments) going to foreigners simply on the basis of being foreigner instead of Korean. It's so fucking racist you could even attempt pressing charges against Blizzard for this with a slim chance of success. It's such a disgrace I currently feel embarrassed to call this my favorite esport. Press charges "with a slim chance of success"??? How deluded are you--there's no way you would win that.
Slim chance is better than no chance :p!?
It's a bit of a weird expression, I'll remove it.
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On December 18 2015 23:55 ejozl wrote:
People will just need to re-learn how to love watching non-Korean Starcraft. I imagine viewer counts will be low for a while, but definitely growth will be more visible.
Or people just stop watching the farce that is WCS Welfare.
If you have 50% of the viewer count every single additional viewer represents twice as large a growth percentage!
Going from 5 viewers to 6 is a 20% increase, though I suppose going from 50K to 50K+1 is considerably healthier for the game despite the negligable growth, right?
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 19 2015 00:05 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 19 2015 00:00 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 18 2015 22:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Wanting equal opportunities for all is racist, but region locking something to keep out a certain nation is PC or what? You want to support local players, talk to the teams to create practice houses that are actually used for practice and not "content creation", create strict practice times, etc. Some teams, like EG, had the opportunity to do this but they didn't. Why? You think Koreans living in team houses make zilions of dollars or something? They make almost nothing until they can reach a very high level. THIS This exactly. Blizzard is actively punishing the Koreans that actually practice most of their day and view progaming as a profession. Instead, we are now rewarding the foreigners who keep on whining and causing drama. There's 80K flat out (+ all regionlocked tournaments) going to foreigners simply on the basis of being foreigner instead of Korean. It's so fucking racist you could even attempt pressing charges against Blizzard for this with a slim chance of success. It's such a disgrace I currently feel embarrassed to call this my favorite esport. Press charges "with a slim chance of success"??? How deluded are you--there's no way you would win that. Slim chance is better than no chance :p!? It's a bit of a weird expression, I'll remove it.
There's actually just no chance
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On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing?
Yes, but now it's even more interesting because LOTV is even more demanding on multitasking and micro, so the difference between a GSL game and a WCS foreigner whatever it's called game should be even more visible.
I don't mean to hate so much on the system, but i don't think the skill gap can be closed unless there is a major change in how foreigners train. Ladder all day or when you feel like it, just isn't going to do it. So if the practice remains the same, then all we achieve is a welfare for being non Korean. I totally understand why players would be happy, i would to if i was one, but as fans i just don't see any positive.
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On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing?
Yes, though that's wholly irrelevant in the first place.
If someone wants to see the best play, they want to see the best play--whether they can appreciate the minutiae of seeing the best is not necessary for their enjoyment. I am mediocre at chess and would not see the difference between two GMs playing and the best in the world playing, but I would tune in for the latter and not the former. You can't rationalize someone's fun.
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On December 19 2015 00:14 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing? Yes, but now it's even more interesting because LOTV is even more demanding on multitasking and micro, so the difference between a GSL game and a WCS foreigner whatever it's called game should be even more visible. I don't mean to hate so much on the system, but i don't think the skill gap can be closed unless there is a major change in how foreigners train. Ladder all day or when you feel like it, just isn't going to do it. So if the practice remains the same, then all we achieve is a welfare for being non Korean. I totally understand why players would be happy, i would to if i was one, but as fans i just don't see any positive.
Less live time for actual professional Starcraft makes real life easier to manage  ?
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Australia18228 Posts
Also, graphic says WCS points and $$ awarded to Code A 24-48th but Season 1 has 60 players?
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So now that GOM is dead... what does GSL stand for?
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On December 19 2015 00:41 Inflicted wrote:
Also, graphic says WCS points and $$ awarded to Code A 24-48th but Season 1 has 60 players?
24-48th is probably taking into account the top 8 players from season 1 getting seeded into season 2 already.
On December 19 2015 00:50 klipik12 wrote:
So now that GOM is dead... what does GSL stand for?
The G never stood for GOM, it stands for Global.
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On December 19 2015 00:50 klipik12 wrote:
So now that GOM is dead... what does GSL stand for?
Global Starcraft League?
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Australia18228 Posts
On December 19 2015 00:50 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:41 Inflicted wrote:
Also, graphic says WCS points and $$ awarded to Code A 24-48th but Season 1 has 60 players?
24-48th is probably taking into account the top 8 players from season 1 getting seeded into season 2 already. Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:50 klipik12 wrote:
So now that GOM is dead... what does GSL stand for? The G never stood for GOM, it stands for Global.
₩230,000,000 per season
27,200 points per season
This assumes they're only rewarding 24 players. Are they randomly choosing 24 for season 1 or awarding more points/money?
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On December 19 2015 00:55 Inflicted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:50 Elentos wrote:On December 19 2015 00:41 Inflicted wrote:
Also, graphic says WCS points and $$ awarded to Code A 24-48th but Season 1 has 60 players?
24-48th is probably taking into account the top 8 players from season 1 getting seeded into season 2 already. On December 19 2015 00:50 klipik12 wrote:
So now that GOM is dead... what does GSL stand for? The G never stood for GOM, it stands for Global. ₩230,000,000 per season 27,200 points per season This assumes they're only rewarding 24 players. Are they randomly choosing 24 for season 1 or awarding more points/money?
I'd assume they award it all 30 who go out in Code A season 1. Would be the biggest dick move if they didn't. But you're right, the pool doesn't add up to enough for season 1.
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On December 19 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:14 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing? Yes, but now it's even more interesting because LOTV is even more demanding on multitasking and micro, so the difference between a GSL game and a WCS foreigner whatever it's called game should be even more visible. I don't mean to hate so much on the system, but i don't think the skill gap can be closed unless there is a major change in how foreigners train. Ladder all day or when you feel like it, just isn't going to do it. So if the practice remains the same, then all we achieve is a welfare for being non Korean. I totally understand why players would be happy, i would to if i was one, but as fans i just don't see any positive. Less live time for actual professional Starcraft makes real life easier to manage ?
haha we all make more money by focusing more on our jobs. Well played Blizzard
I really hope these changes will improve things for everyone, but if the only real result is that the existing batch of non-Koreans make more money and the gap between them and Koreans remains the same, then it's going to be a shitstorm and some people might even start to dislike the foreigner player base. It's a dangerous thing IMO.
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8748 Posts
Blizzard isn't stifling the Korean scene. It has gotten smaller because there's less interest in it.
Blizzard is just sponsoring its own game. It's in Blizzard's interests to keep competition alive in NA and EU as well as KR. Asking Blizzard to focus its sponsorship on just KR is asking Blizzard to act against its own interests, which sounds more like welfare to me.
The money doesn't align with what's best for pure competition. That's true in every professional sport. If it's your hobby to unproductively bemoan this reality, then whatever, but this is a particularly unsuitable situation for you to protest because there will still be a ton of good SC2 competition in 2016.
edit: And it's no wonder that pros hardly ever post on TL anymore like they used to. A bunch of negative and unproductive people acting like they're trying to repel pros. You only ever get someone like Nerchio who happens to read it and can't resist trying to correct the nonsense from people with no experience and no idea what they're talking about. It used to be that the best non-Koreans could come here and get endless support from the fans, even if people were realistic and respectful about how much better some Koreans were than them. And now it's negativity that has gone so extreme "I won't cheer for a non-Korean even if he is better than Koreans" jesus.....
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On December 19 2015 01:08 NonY wrote:
Blizzard isn't stifling the Korean scene. It has gotten smaller because there's less interest in it.
Blizzard is just sponsoring its own game. It's in Blizzard's interests to keep competition alive in NA and EU as well as KR. Asking Blizzard to focus its sponsorship on just KR is asking Blizzard to act against its own interests, which sounds more like welfare to me.
The money doesn't align with what's best for pure competition. That's true in every professional sport. If it's your hobby to unproductively bemoan this reality, then whatever, but this is a particularly unsuitable situation for you to protest because there will still be a ton of good SC2 competition in 2016.
I'd argue sc2 in korea has been getting bigger every year since 2013
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On December 19 2015 01:01 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2015 00:23 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 19 2015 00:14 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:
[quote]
Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans).
Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing? Yes, but now it's even more interesting because LOTV is even more demanding on multitasking and micro, so the difference between a GSL game and a WCS foreigner whatever it's called game should be even more visible. I don't mean to hate so much on the system, but i don't think the skill gap can be closed unless there is a major change in how foreigners train. Ladder all day or when you feel like it, just isn't going to do it. So if the practice remains the same, then all we achieve is a welfare for being non Korean. I totally understand why players would be happy, i would to if i was one, but as fans i just don't see any positive. Less live time for actual professional Starcraft makes real life easier to manage ? haha we all make more money by focusing more on our jobs. Well played Blizzard I really hope these changes will improve things for everyone, but if the only real result is that the existing batch of non-Koreans make more money and the gap between them and Koreans remains the same, then it's going to be a shitstorm and some people might even start to dislike the foreigner player base. It's a dangerous thing IMO.
So we can buy more skins! Well played!
Well, there is no real incentive for Foreigners to improve at a more rapid pace than they currently are on ladder. They'll never catch up with Koreans if their only clash is at WCS 2016 Slaughterhouse, where they all go out 3-0 bar a couple of succesful cheeses. Blizzard managed to reward the people who complain and don't commit to SC2 and to punish the players who commit to their game as a profession and not a hobby.
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On December 19 2015 01:08 NonY wrote:
Blizzard isn't stifling the Korean scene. It has gotten smaller because there's less interest in it.
Blizzard is just sponsoring its own game. It's in Blizzard's interests to keep competition alive in NA and EU as well as KR. Asking Blizzard to focus its sponsorship on just KR is asking Blizzard to act against its own interests, which sounds more like welfare to me.
The money doesn't align with what's best for pure competition. That's true in every professional sport. If it's your hobby to unproductively bemoan this reality, then whatever, but this is a particularly unsuitable situation for you to protest because there will still be a ton of good SC2 competition in 2016.
Maybe it's not growing because Blizzard keeps making it harder for Koreans to earn the money in the west and keeps making it more and more easy for people who cannot perform at the highest level?
Correlation and causation pls?
At least don't use phrases like World Championship if you're actively eliminating over 90% of the contenders with random rules set in place to protect the worse players with the good contacts.
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EPT
