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On December 18 2015 21:59 cop354g wrote:
Why Korea has so special position in blizzard esports? Like its silly that one country has special rules and regions in tournament when rest of the world is just "rest of the world". Korea is just a country among others, it doesnt matter if "best players are there", its just country among others. There is nothing like this in any other sports.
This nonsense needs to stop where koreans are seeeded from separate qualifiers, also the whole "foreigner" thing needs to go.
The 'foreigner' thing needs to go?
More like other games need to adopt it 
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Exactly let's see how it goes. In the end i just want to watch Starcraft, and i dont mind if there aren't any Koreans in them. I love NationWars, they produced some exciting games, so i am not too worried about Blizzard's choice.
Furthermore the fact that they upped the Prize Pool is really a good thing for the scene. More prize money means more people maybe commmitting full-time, which hopefully means more exciting games!
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On December 18 2015 22:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays  Wanting equal opportunities for all is racist, but region locking something to keep out a certain nation is PC or what?
That "racist" thing was sort of my personal sense of humor, I probably should refrain from writing this. I should expect someone to catch that.
You want to support local players, talk to the teams to create practice houses that are actually used for practice and not "content creation", create strict practice times, etc.
I wish I had this kind of power. Maybe someday.
Some teams, like EG, had the opportunity to do this but they didn't. Why? You think Koreans living in team houses make zilions of dollars or something? They make almost nothing until they can reach a very high level.
I never said anything about money. I also hate the fact that opportunities like that are mostly ruined because of trying their best in pleasing sponsors, promoting their stuff and such. Why "the West" focuses on making money out of the game unlike Korea, where I feel they care more about the game itself (since they have government support), is a topic for entirely separate discussion I think.
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On December 18 2015 06:46 Lgnarrow wrote:Thanks. So korean Koreans will not play it. Only those foreign Koreans. That sucks for me. Watching grup stage of Worlds finals will be pointless ... I guess they want to make starcraft more popular outside Korea. But c'mon... there is nothing more interesting in SC2 than whatching top Korean beasts fighting. For me watching foreigners is not funny. Maybe only top foreigners at their best, when they fight even with good Korean players. But all the rest dont make the game entertaining. Just my opinion. What about you guys ?
I stopped watching starcraft because of only koreans playing. So i feel they did good with the changes. and then get excited for the crossed finals.Last blizzcon i didnt watch because of only koreans... no one to root for for me. But that how i like it foreigners vs koreans.
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On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays
Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans).
Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism).
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On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:
Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism).
Please, forget that I wrote that word
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On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism).
People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved.
Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though.
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On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though.
They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices?
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On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices?
Then how come foreigners are still bad?
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On December 18 2015 11:40 SlammerIV wrote:
Can people please stop trying to speak for the entire fanbase of starcraft! I am a huge Starcraft fan, I have watched almost every tournament since early 2013 and I am super excited and hyped for the new system blizzard is implementing. I respect the fact that many here on TL disagree but can we at least admit that there is at least a large percentage of StarCraft fans who support region locking.
I think we need to understand why Koreans are so good at starcraft, imo it is not because they work harder or are genetically superior, it is simply because they benefit from the infrastructure in Korea which allows new talent to get on a team, make some money, and actually make a living. Up until now very few non Korean players have had the money, practice, or infrastructure which enables a player to dedicate their lives to becoming the absolute best. The new system will provide a reason for players to actually put in the huge level of dedication required to reach the level of Korean players. I do not understand how people choose to ignore the simple economics of the situation. Why would someone put in the effort required when they are not going to receive any benefit. Now Blizzard is giving players a real shot at making a living off gaming.
Plenty of pros already meet the requirement you're setting of being entirely dependent on e-sports income.
Yet still, Koreans reign supreme. There is more at play here than the simple explanation you are offering.
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On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad?
I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway.
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On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other teams. EDIT: actually, I even do not watch the UEFA matches from teams from my country. Just MY team. Why to watch the low level play when there is high level play available? If Blizzard wanted to support SC2 foreign scene, they should do one more ban. They should forbid English casting of Korean leagues. Then, we all, who do not speak Koreans, would have to stop watching Korean tournaments and would be forced to watch the Welfare circuit. At the beginning, we would be angry, at the end, we would get used to it.
I think alot of people like me only watch matches if their country is involved. i only watch champions league if one of the teams has a player from my country. i dont have interest in barcalona or what so ever. So i believe this new system will be better. Like lolm they are the worst region but has the most money and viewers.
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On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway.
I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity.
I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from.
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On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from.
Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing?
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On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing?
Yes. The differences between Nerchio/Bly/Elazer are directly seeable compared to ByuL/Life/Dark. If you dont believe, make a blind tournament, where all playernames are completly hidden. Invite top koreans and foreigners. People will figure out very fast who is who.
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People will just need to re-learn how to love watching non-Korean Starcraft. I imagine viewer counts will be low for a while, but definitely growth will be more visible.
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On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing?
Yes. When i personally watch enough Starcraft i can generally tell by the kind of mistakes they make, the level of multitasking and play involved, etc.
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On December 18 2015 22:03 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Wanting equal opportunities for all is racist, but region locking something to keep out a certain nation is PC or what? You want to support local players, talk to the teams to create practice houses that are actually used for practice and not "content creation", create strict practice times, etc. Some teams, like EG, had the opportunity to do this but they didn't. Why? You think Koreans living in team houses make zilions of dollars or something? They make almost nothing until they can reach a very high level.
THIS
This exactly.
Blizzard is actively punishing the Koreans that actually practice most of their day and view progaming as a profession. Instead, we are now rewarding the foreigners who keep on whining and causing drama. There's 80K flat out (+ all regionlocked tournaments) going to foreigners simply on the basis of being foreigner instead of Korean.
It's so fucking 'racist'/stupid to ban Koreans based on being Korean.
I know of the tradition in Starcraft of Koreans being better, but they aren't simply born with the Starcraft gene. They work harder for it, they commit to it, they invest in it. That is why they are better.
It's such a disgrace I currently feel embarrassed to call this my favorite esport.
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On December 18 2015 23:51 aQuaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 23:47 Fliparoni wrote:On December 18 2015 22:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:55 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:53 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 22:47 cop354g wrote:On December 18 2015 22:42 boxerfred wrote:On December 18 2015 21:52 aQuaSC wrote:I'm sorry for being kinda passive aggressive, I'm just so tired of this elitist, negative and you could even say racist thinking. Korea Korea Korea Korea Korea. Support your local players, support creation of infrastructure, support opportunities for people to practice with Koreans - eventually there will be no need of region locking anything. Or for the sake of everyone stop watching foreigners, ignore them forever. Move to Korea or something. I'm not aiming it at you, boxerfred. People are so negative nowadays Thing is that it's not "Korea Korea Korea". It's just simply "I want to see the best quality of matches that there is." And that would be Koreans. That does not mean that I'd not tune in for HSC or Dreamhack or IEM. I simply think that splitting Korea and the world is the wrongest approach. As a foreign pro, you cannot increase your skill level past a certain point if you're not facing the best (i.e. Koreans). Also, I'd be really, really careful with the "racist" road. Starcraft has a tradition of being "Korea" and "Foreigners". That's the split, coming from the skill gap between a player that comes from a country where SC2 is a huge cultural part (Korea) or a player from a country where SC2 is a very small scene (pretty much every single other country). If there is any racism involved, it's within the idea of a "region lock" (and even that is a constructed theory of racism and not "real" racism). People dont train at tournaments, if you get defeated by korean in tournament you wont get anything out of that you couldnt get just by watching tournament streams. If people want non-koreans to be as good, there are whole different issues that needs to be solved. Idea of "if koreans play with foreigners in tournaments, foreigners become better" is just nonsensical line of though. They get better because they are forced to practice much harder to defeat them and win some money, so it's not so nonsensical. That is what made Naniwa, Huk, etc work their behinds off with the best possible practice. If there were no Koreans in international tournaments do you think they would have made all those sacrifices? Then how come foreigners are still bad? I'll probably catch a lot of shit for this but...Because very very few were willing to make the same sacrifices the Koreans do, by being full time pros and not just a hobby. IMO anyway. I totally agree with you. I don't think these changes will do much in that regard either. In fact, with no more Koreans at weekend events, foreigners are now probably thinking that they don't even have to work very hard anymore for an even bigger prize pool which further facilitates the foreigner mediocrity. I for one am only interested in watching the highest level Starcraft, and if those players came primarily from Saudi Arabia, Germany, Samoa, or in this case Korea doesn't make a difference to me whatsoever. I am a fan of the game itself and not people's skin color or where they come from. Would you be able to tell how high-level particular game is if you didn't know what players were playing?
Within 2 minutes.
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EPT
