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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
United States15275 Posts
On September 03 2014 13:22 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2014 12:30 instantdry wrote:On September 03 2014 12:17 Najda wrote:On September 03 2014 10:02 instantdry wrote:On September 02 2014 06:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 01 2014 11:43 instantdry wrote:On September 01 2014 11:31 Najda wrote:
I feel dumb for asking this because I know there's no real answer to it, but what should I be texting a girl? I went on a date with this girl, it went well and we are planning another one, but in the mean time I don't just want radio silence, I'd like to talk to her. The thing is though, I'm terrible at texting/starting conversations, any tips? The phone is for making dates not chit-chating. Make a definite date and get off the phone. The more the girl thinks about you and anticipates the date, the more attracted she will be towards you. If she contacts you first, take that as an opportunity to set the next date. If she does not contact you, wait once a week to contact her again. Keep the conversations no more than 10 minutes and remember to set up the next date. Good luck! I strongly disagree with not using the phone to communicate anything other than setting up a date. I'd try talking to her more and more frequently if you're truly interested (whether it's texting, calling, or preferably in person). If she never texts back, then you can get the hint a lot quicker; otherwise, it's nice to know that she's taking time out of her day to hold a casual conversation with you. Chatting with her every day is a surefire sign that you're becoming a part of her life (whether that's as a friend or as a romantic interest still needs to be established, of course). As far as starting a text conversation is concerned, make sure you're going somewhere with the conversation (and the ability to plan your thoughts out and what you type is pretty convenient). After exchanging "Hey how's it going?"s, feel free to bring up something that she had talked to you about (a hobby that you might want her to teach you, an event that she was going to, school/ music/ sports, something that reminded you of her today, etc.). Ideally, it'll get to the point where she reaches out to you first instead of you needing to initiate the text conversation all the time, but there's no magic formula for how long that is. When courting members of the opposite sex, we have to be aware of our actions and whether they increase attraction or decrease attraction towards us. By texting and talking to her often, you are actually going to decrease her attraction level. Girls ideally want to be involved in the chase as well. If you are constantly texting and calling her, she knows where she stands and knows that you are interested in her. This kills the mystery and anticipation. Remember, it's a scientific fact that women are more attracted to men whose feelings are unclear (the woman doesn't know where she stands). When the woman reaches out to the man to reassure herself, the man simply has to have a short conversation and set up the next date. How do you let your know your interested in seeing her again then? God I hate this. My situation: Girl messages me on okc, her pictures are mediocre so I'm not too thrilled about meeting her but I decide to give her a chance, and my texting tone sort of reflects this. We meet for a drink Friday night, it goes well though no real physical escalation. She texts me after saying she had a really good time, chat for a few minutes then I say I'm going to bed. She had invited me to go to the zoo with her and some friends the next day during the date, I said I couldn't because I had an interview that morning. I texted her later asking how the zoo was, she asked how my interview was and we talked a bit more. Then on monday I asked if she was free that night to hang out, she said she was busy, would love to some other time (though she took like 3 hours to respond). Texted her again tonight, and just no response (at 8 pm, 11 pm now). So that's 3 times over 4 days, is that really so offputting she completely lost interest? I've been on about 4 first dates now where this is the case, I just don't get it. You let her know your interested by inviting her out again. She was attracted to you after your Friday date because she texted you afterwards (and also set up another date during the date). When she said was busy, but would love to get together some other time, your response should be: "okay, let me know when you're free to get together". After that there should be no contact. If she's interested in you, she'll reach out to you. If not, then move on. You should definitely follow Corey Wayne on Youtube and read his book. He has a systematic approach towards dating, courtship and relationships. Good Luck! I think the most annoying part about it is that I understand everything you're saying, it just goes against what I want to be doing. I know I should be filling my time with other things but I just moved here a week ago and haven't even found a job yet so I'm just sitting around all day bored to death which compounds the issue. Do you think I should ask her out again sometime in a couple days or just not message at all anymore? In the meantime I'm trying to pursue other options.
Then keep looking for a job by whatever means necessary. If you just moved to that location, your priority should be to reassemble your life.
You should avoid turning this interaction into a game. instantdry's advice is technically correct but it should come from the frame of "this girl is one thing among many happening in my life" and not "I'm trying to sneakily manipulate the girl into seeing me as higher value". Doing the latter actually means you are lower value. You're just fronting at that point.
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Fake it till you make it.
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Yeah that shit's hard - I have the tendency to text and skype her too often because I was used to it from past relationship - where we were really interdependent. It's a bad habit I want to get rid of though, fake it till you make it indeed:
But the girl I'm with is just a prime example of the "indifference" impulse in sales. When I go after her she gets annoyed, but when I'm indifferent it gets the results I want - she goes after me I get my confirmation that my ego needs etc. I mean it's perfect in terms of what I want but I feel like I am forced into being manipulative ln doing the opposite of what I actually feel like doing, like e.g.setting a rule that after I pushed too hard I have to wait for her to message first even if its 2 days, when I want a hand holding on the street I have to walk faster than her ignore her a bit etc.
Is doing this unethical (ish) or simply a necessity / adjusting to the needs and wants of the other person?
There's loads of stuff like that, I realized I know squat all about women read books like en.wikipedia.org
shanon drake novel ,psychology of love, what women want, a PUA book, psychology today articles...
And try to use that against (Well actually for) her. I'm not sure if I'm being creepy but long run it seems good in terms of understanding women and what they want... I told her I read all this btw (not the indifference I have to force myself to actually do) so it makes it more okay with this particular girl?
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Talked to the girl at the school bus stop. Awkward as hell. Had a lot of stuff to deal with and a lot in my head. Regardless, still talked to her and it was quite awkward with some silence. Boarded the same bus but alighted without saying bye as there was a guy between us...owellllllllllll.
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stop being so logical, and learn to have fun.
women will enjoy speaking to you if you show your playful side.
and if they don't, or they happen to be in a bad mood, then chalk it up as their loss.
almost every dude in singapore is serious as shit (myself included) and if you're the same as them, you're really not that much special + you're not going to have much success.
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On September 02 2014 05:38 aksfjh wrote:
Girlfriend just broke up with me today, said she just wasn't attracted to me any more after 8 months together. I love(d) the hell out of that woman. This is going to be incredibly hard to move on from.
Move on asap and forget her. Don't contact her or respond to her if she contacts you, and do your best to block her out of her mind.
'Attraction' is a garbage reason. She most likely found another guy that she wanted to test drive for a bit. She'll most likely get 'tired' of him as well then may or may not want to come back to you.
Whatever the case, close that chapter in your book permanently.
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United States15275 Posts
On September 03 2014 18:32 LemOn wrote:
Yeah that shit's hard - I have the tendency to text and skype her too often because I was used to it from past relationship - where we were really interdependent. It's a bad habit I want to get rid of though, fake it till you make it indeed:
But the girl I'm with is just a prime example of the "indifference" impulse in sales. When I go after her she gets annoyed, but when I'm indifferent it gets the results I want - she goes after me I get my confirmation that my ego needs etc. I mean it's perfect in terms of what I want but I feel like I am forced into being manipulative ln doing the opposite of what I actually feel like doing, like e.g.setting a rule that after I pushed too hard I have to wait for her to message first even if its 2 days, when I want a hand holding on the street I have to walk faster than her ignore her a bit etc.
Is doing this unethical (ish) or simply a necessity / adjusting to the needs and wants of the other person?
Be aware that there are different types of "indifference", and not all types come from the same source. There is "indifference" to social pressure, "indifference" to good or bad results, "indifference" to emotional fluctuation, etc. You are utilizing an indifference to emotional fluctuation and social pressure i.e. you are neither being corralled by her emotional swings or seeking her approval. Women find that attractive for many reasons, too many to get into here.
But such indifference should be an expression of your natural confidence, and this is not the case. You haven't mentioned whether you're dating this girl or not. She might be annoyed because you are acting as if you aren't together - there should be no 'going after her' if the relationship already exists. Alternatively you may be coming from a place of neediness instead of security when it comes to 'going after her', and she can sense that.
On September 03 2014 18:32 LemOn wrote:There's loads of stuff like that, I realized I know squat all about women read books like en.wikipedia.orgshanon drake novel ,psychology of love, what women want, a PUA book, psychology today articles... And try to use that against (Well actually for) her. I'm not sure if I'm being creepy but long run it seems good in terms of understanding women and what they want... I told her I read all this btw (not the indifference I have to force myself to actually do) so it makes it more okay with this particular girl?
Guys who don't know how to attract women are much creepier. You are simply trying to improve on a particular aspect of your social life.
On September 04 2014 00:04 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 05:38 aksfjh wrote:
Girlfriend just broke up with me today, said she just wasn't attracted to me any more after 8 months together. I love(d) the hell out of that woman. This is going to be incredibly hard to move on from. Move on asap and forget her. Don't contact her or respond to her if she contacts you, and do your best to block her out of her mind. 'Attraction' is a garbage reason. She most likely found another guy that she wanted to test drive for a bit. She'll most likely get 'tired' of him as well then may or may not want to come back to you. Whatever the case, close that chapter in your book permanently.
Errr, no. She was probably telling the truth. Don't assume she is some kind of floozy because she hurt a TL member's precious feelings.
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On September 04 2014 00:04 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 05:38 aksfjh wrote:
Girlfriend just broke up with me today, said she just wasn't attracted to me any more after 8 months together. I love(d) the hell out of that woman. This is going to be incredibly hard to move on from. Move on asap and forget her. Don't contact her or respond to her if she contacts you, and do your best to block her out of her mind. 'Attraction' is a garbage reason. She most likely found another guy that she wanted to test drive for a bit. She'll most likely get 'tired' of him as well then may or may not want to come back to you. Whatever the case, close that chapter in your book permanently.
Going to nip this in the bud right now. Attraction is a very valid and normal reason. I've been in the same boat before with women, where the attraction just diminished too much over time and it was essentially over. I didn't like that outcome though, and found ways to not find myself in the same trap on my end. It's different for everybody though, so it may be something she can't find a way to handle or I may not benefit from anything she learns about it.
And if she does move on to somebody else, so be it. If somebody else led her to see that she lost her attraction in me, so what. I know she didn't cheat on me, and that's what really matters to me. It's not like she's some "bitch that played me," she's human just like me and everybody else here. She doesn't have to evaluate her feelings in a vacuum, nor is she forbidden from having feelings reinforced or torn down by people and her environment.
And yes, a chapter with her is being closed, but I'm not going to shut her off in some asinine attempt to save myself from her. Fundamentally, she's still the person I chose to be with, and I believe my standards are high. She's as great of a woman as she ever was and things didn't work out. Whether or not it's over between us completely has yet to be seen, but if the opportunity to be with her again arises, I'm not going to restrict myself from options because of the pain I feel today. I'll do what I do with every relationship, evaluate the chance that it will work against what I have to give up and the actions I have to do to mitigate the chances of that relationship failing. This pain is directly related to how good it felt to be with her, and I knew this before it ended. I'll remember both for EVERY relationship going forward.
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I think it'd be funny for this thread if someone would find a link to a group of women giving each other dating advice, just to see how it matches up to ours (don't ask me, I don't know how to find women on the internet).
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Northern Ireland22921 Posts
That's not a bad idea actually. Girls in my experience are insane when it comes to discussing menfolk and our habits
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On September 04 2014 01:42 Grumbels wrote:
I think it'd be funny for this thread if someone would find a link to a group of women giving each other dating advice, just to see how it matches up to ours (don't ask me, I don't know how to find women on the internet).
If it's anything like my female friends have linked to me before, it's all about trying to figure out how "we think." Getting more information out of very little information a guy could give ("What does he mean when he says 'X'?!"), and how to encourage him to act without being explicit. You know, those elusive "signs" we always miss. That's on the "socially awkward" side though, the non PUA equivalent to what we have. I know/care very little about the "game" advice they give/receive.
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On September 04 2014 02:19 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 01:42 Grumbels wrote:
I think it'd be funny for this thread if someone would find a link to a group of women giving each other dating advice, just to see how it matches up to ours (don't ask me, I don't know how to find women on the internet). If it's anything like my female friends have linked to me before, it's all about trying to figure out how "we think." Getting more information out of very little information a guy could give ("What does he mean when he says 'X'?!"), and how to encourage him to act without being explicit. You know, those elusive "signs" we always miss. That's on the "socially awkward" side though, the non PUA equivalent to what we have. I know/care very little about the "game" advice they give/receive.
Well I think that's a bit of a matter of perspective and context. Girls just tend to mature (particularly about relationships) faster than guys. I'd say the majority of women are ready (and mature enough) to 'settle down' between 25-39 men (from my observations) tend to be closer to 29-49. So I think outside of younger womens facebooks you don't really see as many reach out for 'game' advice.
But really 'trying to know what he really means or thinks' is pretty game... Also one of the things that irritates me most about women who read too many forums/magazines about relationships. Some of us just mean what we say and say what we mean. It's how "I'm busy until Tuesday" gets interpreted as "He is not interested"... No, he's just busy
I don't want to talk PUA or anything but I do think there is a slight genetic explanation. Rather than go into the questionable science I'll sum it up with a line from a comedian.
What is the difference between men and women:
A woman wants one man to satisfy her every need.
A man wants every woman to satisfy his one need.
I (and many scientists) think those drives are primal and biological. Socially, sexual/partner relationships have evolved to resemble more closely the biological preference of females (many not all).
As a result (in combination with other factors) woman seem 'better' or 'more mature' at relationships pretty often. When really had we just socially engineered society around something like lions relationships it would probably be the other way around. Just imagine if instead of getting scolding eyes for 'cheating', society (other women as well) would cast those eyes on a wife for complaining about her husband sexing his other wives. I imagine it may still be like that in the middle east.
Makes me wonder how female lions feel about the arrangement and if there is any support for lioness rights among lions? I mean lionesses have it way worse (from an outside perspective) than most human women could ever imagine tolerating yet they have been doing it for thousands of years.
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United States15275 Posts
On September 04 2014 01:42 Grumbels wrote:
I think it'd be funny for this thread if someone would find a link to a group of women giving each other dating advice, just to see how it matches up to ours (don't ask me, I don't know how to find women on the internet).
It would be odd. For example, women commonly say they want a man who's nice, attentive, caring, and receptive to their needs. On the surface this sounds like the exact behavior that turns them off. But in reality they are thinking about their ideal man, and most women would not inherently feel comfortable around their ideal man. In fact they would be constantly in their own heads and feeling insecure. So said women are actually detailing the behavior that would make the relationship go over smoothly. Just like men, they have a huge chasm between what they want and what they think they deserve.
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On September 04 2014 01:42 Grumbels wrote:
I think it'd be funny for this thread if someone would find a link to a group of women giving each other dating advice, just to see how it matches up to ours (don't ask me, I don't know how to find women on the internet).
Best idea ever had in this thread. I just did some quick googling around for dating advice for women seeking "geeky" or "nerdy" guys, figured that was the most applicable here  A lot of it is cringeworthy with the occasional good advice mixed in. So same as this thread I guess? haha.
Does Star Trek matter to geek boys?
To say that Star Trek matters to a geek boy is an understatement. Star Trek is life to geeks, so you should get used to it and try loving it too. They know everything from the history to the latest installment on the widescreen. You may get lost when you're boy tries telling you he loves you in Vulcan or starts to babble on about whatever killed Spock, but you’ll get a hang of it sooner or later.
Here’s the scenario: I’m attracted to the kind of guy who’s… well, nerdy. The kind who’d prefer to stay home on Friday night than be out “living it up”. But of course these types are also usually virgins, or guys who’ve not had any real relationships. That’s not the problem though. These guys are always posting in dating forums and on their own journals about how they can’t meet a girl, and they’ve never (or rarely) had a girlfriend, because girls don’t like nerds, and they don’t initiate the first email, and they don’t respond to their emails, blah blah blah. Yet, when I email these guys, I either get no response or I get one of those responses that are obviously just them trying to be polite… and then they go back to complaining that girls don’t message them. I’m no super model, but I’m decent looking and I always fit, personality-wise, what the guy says he wants in his profile. It’s frustrating that a guy who can’t otherwise get a girlfriend doesn’t even want to talk to me online. Is there something I’m doing wrong? Am I chasing the wrong guys? Are they just hypocrites?
Guys who have no experience with women have nothing BUT their fantasies. And if they’re picturing Tricia Helfer or Jeri Ryan or Olivia Munn as their dream partner, well, then, a cool down-to-earth chick like you doesn’t stand a chance. But you can’t control that. All you can do is be aware of it: you’re dealing with adult men who revel in adolescent behavior (sorry, nerds). Like millionaires (workaholics), tall, hot guys (narcissists), and brilliant men (stubborn, arrogant and neurotic), nerds are going to have their downside, too.
What do Nerdy men look for in a woman?
Get yourself a Star Trek uniform. That will probably cover 80%+ :p
Haha! That's good advice! :-D Or the Gold bikini Princess Leia wears in RotJ!! :-P
Nerdy guys are going to have a lot of personal interests and finding a gal who shares in (or at the very least is prepared to tolerate) some of those interests (just as he should be able to show some interest in hers) is very important to maintaining a harmonious relationship.
Same principle as any relationship really, just that those interests might not be as mainstream as most (bit 'quirky' even!), and nerds may be a little more fanatical at times in their following of these interests.
plenty of fish forums has some interesting stuff.
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On September 04 2014 03:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2014 01:42 Grumbels wrote:
I think it'd be funny for this thread if someone would find a link to a group of women giving each other dating advice, just to see how it matches up to ours (don't ask me, I don't know how to find women on the internet). It would be odd. For example, women commonly say they want a man who's nice, attentive, caring, and receptive to their needs. On the surface this sounds like the exact behavior that turns them off. But in reality they are thinking about their ideal man, and most women would not inherently feel comfortable around their ideal man. In fact they would be constantly in their own heads and feeling insecure. So said women are actually detailing the behavior that would the relationship go over smoothly. Just like men, they have a huge chasm between what they want and what they think they deserve.
This is a really good post and from my own experience I have found that what women say they want, and who they actually go for are two completely different things. In the past I became essentially a doormat because when the "nice, attentive, caring" taken to an extreme just turns into unattractive neediness. I learned a lot from that. Being a "bad boy" doesn't work either, not if you want a real meaningful relationship. You have to learn how to be a confident and assertive person, and be a caring person from a position of strength, and not because you are desperate for somebody to return the feelings.
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It goes without saying that women are attracted to attractive/interesting/influential men so when they try to look for a guy they don't mention it since it's obvious to them and makes them seem tacky when it's implicit in everything they look for.
Women also biologically look for different things when it comes to having sex versus having a long-term partner, which men also do to a lesser extent (since we cannot usually be as picky). Women don't talk about what they want when it comes to having sex since for most it is easy for them to go out and get it and they don't really need to deliberate about it + the social stigma involved.
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Is the whole "do not show a girl how much you like her by speaking to her too much" thing really that common?
I never saw the point of downplaying your interest in someone. I mean, unless you have issues and end up texting someone 50 times a day or send them 10 skype messages in a row without them responding much, I don't see the problem.
If you like someone, why not show them? It's endearing, encouraging and it boosts one's self-esteem.
It reminds me of high school. You know, the whole "whoever speaks to whomever first" concept. Never liked that.
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United States15275 Posts
On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
Is the whole "do not show a girl how much you like her by speaking to her too much" thing really that common?
Yes. Everyone has to start somewhere.
On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
I never saw the point of downplaying your interest in someone. I mean, unless you have issues and end up texting someone 50 times a day or send them 10 skype messages in a row without them responding much, I don't see the problem.
One can be easily be off-putting and needy without expressing it through over-communicating.
On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
If you like someone, why not show them? It's endearing, encouraging and it boosts one's self-esteem.
Assuming they reciprocate. Not everyone will like you. Not everyone is great at social interaction either. Most people aren't in general.
On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
It reminds me of high school. You know, the whole "whoever speaks to whomever first" concept. Never liked that.
It's a guideline that express a principle. Understand and embody the principle and you won't need the guideline.
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On September 06 2014 06:39 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
Is the whole "do not show a girl how much you like her by speaking to her too much" thing really that common? Yes. Everyone has to start somewhere. Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
I never saw the point of downplaying your interest in someone. I mean, unless you have issues and end up texting someone 50 times a day or send them 10 skype messages in a row without them responding much, I don't see the problem. One can be easily be off-putting and needy without expressing it through over-communicating. Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
If you like someone, why not show them? It's endearing, encouraging and it boosts one's self-esteem. Assuming they reciprocate. Not everyone will like you. Not everyone is great at social interaction either. Most people aren't in general. Show nested quote +On September 06 2014 05:56 Spaylz wrote:
It reminds me of high school. You know, the whole "whoever speaks to whomever first" concept. Never liked that. It's a guideline that express a principle. Understand and embody the principle and you won't need the guideline.
I don't know. I just stopped thinking like that a while back.
I don't like to play games. I'm not the overly attached guy, but if I like a girl I'll let her know by speaking to her often and just having conversation with her.
I never much cared for who speaks to whom first. It's just.. I don't know, you find someone you get along with, why play games?
Granted, that other person might feel the need to play games themselves, I'm not saying the opposite. I just don't understand.
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So.. I've been planning to ask one girl out for a dinner or something. We hang out in the same groups but i havent talked to her without others being around. What im asking is that how should i approach her (is it legit to ask her out in facebook/Whatsapp etc. im kinda shy guy u know) or what should i do? I feel like im not in the spot to talk to her everyone being around and asking her out with others listening it lol.
And if it actually happens that she agrees to go out with me, what should we do in the first "date" or should i just let the flow go? Is it lame to take her for a lunch and movie or something or should i plan up something more extra special? I've heard that movie is like the worst place u can go on first date since u are not able to talk to eachother... Maybe im just thinking too much and not doing what im suppose to :|
Appreciate fast response, im so goddamn nervous about this. : P
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EPT
