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your Country52796 Posts
On June 27 2014 22:45 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 22:38 The_Templar wrote:On June 27 2014 22:29 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 21:56 The_Templar wrote:
Beginning wake-up processes…
Nice wagon between you two btw, reading the rest of the posts I'm not starting a wagon, in starting a crusade. I and Hobbitus had similar behaviours. It means nothing, only a slight suggestion we have the same alignment. I invite everyone to read through my last night post and judge if I don't have fair reasoning. "Crusade"? Seriously…? Pun wasn't intended :/
Pun?…
Templar… oh what the hell -.-
I have office hours from now to two hours later and from 4 hours from now to 6, so I'll be unavailable during those times. I'll be back in two hours.
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On June 26 2014 10:56 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 10:44 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 10:09 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 09:33 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 26 2014 09:18 The_Templar wrote:K, wrote a case in about 7 minutes on jabberzerg. Looking at his very thin filter, I now have a very scummy read on him. On June 23 2014 04:01 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Hey guys, I'm out for most of the day, but I'll try to keep up on my phone, and I'll be home for the last three hours or so to read through all the filters and make my final vote.
I just want to make a quick vote now in case something happens I won't get modkilled.
##Vote: meatpudding This isn't particularly scummy. Not all of us have hours upon hours to post in this thread and he could have been later, and votes aren't permanent. I think his vote on meatpudding was a bit questionable since he seems to have had a town read on him but he was probably following the general trend of the town (I think there were 4 votes at that point, but it could be 3) due to lack of time. That could be a newbie fear of wanting to not look suspicious after being gone for ~6 hours and following town. But, is he really going to play an entire game of mafia without having any time? Please. In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately: On June 23 2014 10:53 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 10:48 meatpudding wrote:
Back. I'e reading the thread now. If you're voting Mystery or me, then I don't really have a choice anyway. But I'll flesh out my reads anyway. I'm very interested in what you have to say, I'm undecided about which meat to vote for, and you posting at all is a good sign And then when I make a point about MM not posting, he jumps on it and says he's suspecting him more. On June 23 2014 11:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 10:57 The_Templar wrote:
Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town... Wow interesting. I'd really love to hear a lot from both the meats, but right now the strongest case is MM And then: On June 23 2014 11:58 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 11:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
im not going to share my thought process on one person. deal with it... You might not like how I'm gonna deal with it ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 HAHA so cliche Day 2: On June 25 2014 12:41 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I am not a girl Really? The day is half over and you feel the need to make that your first post of the day? He continues to be as neutral as possible until he can latch onto an opinion. On June 25 2014 13:00 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I think Nydus's GB vote is interesting.
For me it just boils down to whether or not we believe his pressure explanation.
I'm not sure I do, but maybe some video mafia players can explain if that sort of play is common over there. "I don't know, but someone who does stuff that I've never done will figure it out for me". On June 25 2014 13:48 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 25 2014 13:37 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:
Teemursu, could you lay out your case against meatpudding in full without quoting posts where you've already explained why you're voting for him? As far as i can tell your case against him is mostly based around you not liking his OMGUS of you (although the point you raised about him townreading me and scumreading Haru for basically doing the same thing is interesting) and i really need to hear the case put forward in a different way so i can better understand it. I'd love to see this as well On June 26 2014 08:30 jabberwockzerg wrote:I'm liking this Nydus vote. His random pressure vote just seems a little off to me Not that pressure votes are scummy, but it's better to be clear with the town that that is what your doing, and On June 25 2014 11:28 NydusHerMain wrote:
##Vote: GlowingBear
towny feel isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia "isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia" Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point. On June 26 2014 09:09 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 26 2014 09:06 Epishade wrote:@Cats, My recent interactions with him, and his replies to me where he dismisses everything I say as wifom is one thing. I replied back here. On June 26 2014 06:48 Epishade wrote:On June 26 2014 06:23 Teemursu wrote:
have a hard time thinking though that if meatpudding were actual scum with Nydus, that Nydus would be defending him right now It wouldn't make any sense for Nydus to defend meatpudding right now if they were both a scum team. You think Nydus, someone under suspicion right now would point me, someone also fairly suspicious right now, as town if we were mafia partners? If he got lynched and we were mafia partners, then he could assume that I might get lynched next, since he strong town read me when nobody else did I'd have no reason to change my slight townread on him at the start of the game to a scumread midway through. Your scum read on us as partners is faulty at best. All of this is irrelevant non-content WIFOM. Are you serious? You actually think all of the townreading that Nydus has been doing to me is irrelevant and wifom? Why even bother thinking about anything in this game then, since surely if thinking about how logical plays work and how you would expect others to act is wifom, then everything else is then, right? We should just not even bother trying to read people, since everything everyone says and does is wifom, right? On June 26 2014 06:23 Teemursu wrote:
I am not accusing both of you as mafia in association nor have my suspicions been conditional on either one of your alignments.
On June 25 2014 20:08 Teemursu wrote:I actually rescind about making a case on MeatPudding. I feel like I've gone against him the strongest, and I've had multiple posts where I've discussed with him/haven't voted on him. If people aren't convinced by my push on him, then I'm going to divert my attention to someone else. We obviously haven't hit on mafia yet and there still are others alive who town would rather lynch. I think Nydus actually might be mafia. His read on Epishade is very weak. I asked him to provide examples on Epishade and give reasoning on those examples (yes, in plural). So far the reason Nydus has called him top town is that he's been "objective" and that Epishade posts a wishy washy list of conditional scum/flip logic that doesn't really mean anything. Only because people have pushed on someone, and that person flips as either alignment, doesn't clear or put people who actively pushed that person under suspicion. I just played a video mafia game where a VT pushed a ML on Day 1 and I caught two of the three mafia by looking at how they supported the person who was the most active pusher. Nydus should be a way better player and recognise to that Epishade's contribution today does in fact NOT put him as "top town" for his "objectiveness". This takes me to a second possible mafia, Epishade.I don't know if I left out anybody in here, as Teemursu's filter is 9 pages...and there is a whole lot to read not just in his filter, but everywhere. Goddammit, this is a mini-mafia, why are there already 60+ pages by day 2? I think I'm leaning more toward Teemursu or meatpudding right now, but idk exactly. meatpudding hasn't posted more than once after Token was shot, so I don't know what his current thoughts are right now. I'd rather make a vote when he posts I think. Firstly, he wants to vote between two people who have gone the hardest against each other (ignoring MM1 vs. Tolkien and Cats). He says he doesn't have a clear preference, then he says he wants to vote on me. He seems to understand I post a lot, he doesn't refer to anything specific that I've posted about. I took this to mean you were connecting me as potential mafia scum with Nydus, as you said this takes me, referring to your previous argument about Nydus and his views about me. I thought you were drawing a connection between us two as scum by doing that, which is why I assumed you thought we both were scum. Teemursu was on Token's scumlist, which is my personal opinion as a contributing factor to why Token died. I think Teemursu's being incredibly nitpicky against meatpudding too, trying to scumread him for trivial details in meatpudding's posts. That to me is a little scummy. On June 23 2014 22:02 Teemursu wrote:On June 23 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:
I was going through KotC's posts when the lynch was taking place. I kind of couldn't make up my mind, even after MM flipped.
I was not happy to vote for MM, because the case against him didn't convince me completely. His own reactions caused a lot of suspicion. though.I can't call Cats or Tolkien scum based on that alone.
Right now my thoughts are
Teemu - potential scum
Tolkien - potential scum
Cats - fence
Templar - town
Odd. It feels like you're hiding something and not wanting to make up your mind about someone.
You say you can't call Tolkien scum based on that, but you agree with me on Tolkien being scum, and you put him into your potential scum list? Just what is this supposed to mean, anyways? You think him not finding something alignment indicative (him saying he can't find Cats or Token scum based on something) means he's hiding something? It's not just against meatpudding though. Here Teemursu agrees with Poof that because I didn't have hard reads on people and labeled them as "townlean" instead of town that that somehow makes me scummy... On June 25 2014 07:28 Teemursu wrote:On June 25 2014 07:21 Tehpoofter wrote:On June 25 2014 07:11 Epishade wrote:Ok, well, I said last night that I'd get around to posting my reads on everybody. This'll probably take a few hours to type up, so I hope things don't drastically change between that time to make my reads obsolete. I'm getting dinner after this, so I'll be back to read afterwards. JabberZerg - Slight town lean + Show Spoiler +JabberZerg is one of the people in this game that I think is playing so bad he couldn't be scum (Jk, not AS bad as Meat anyways). I realize that MysteryMeat was also playing pretty bad, but he was also not helping his case with his aggressiveness and misuse of logic. JabberZerg at least can explain his actions. Jabber puts meatpudding in his townlean at the start of the game here. On June 22 2014 16:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
yeah, pudding's a townlean
I'd be most comfortable with a tolkien vote, but I want him to read my post about scott and react to it, defend his wagon.
I'll agree with a fence on KittyCats, he's asking questions, but I'm noticing a lack of content. However, he votes for meatpudding later here with the excuse that he wanted to vote someone so he wouldn't be modkilled if something happened. I have to question his choice of voting for meatpudding over someone else. On June 23 2014 04:01 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Hey guys, I'm out for most of the day, but I'll try to keep up on my phone, and I'll be home for the last three hours or so to read through all the filters and make my final vote.
I just want to make a quick vote now in case something happens I won't get modkilled.
##Vote: meatpudding When he comes back, he explains his reasoning behind the vote being that meatpudding was a wagon. On June 23 2014 09:37 jabberwockzerg wrote:
okay first thing's first:
##: Unvote
I voted pudding because, honestly, he was the first person with a wagon that I could remember. I was trying to save my stupid ass from a modkill.
I understand that it looks scummy.
I'll get on reading through filters and give my thoughts on the meat situation ASAP This seems like a really bad reason to vote for someone without having his own reasons for doing so. He understands it looks scummy, as he says. Honestly, I don't think a mafia would make a mistake like this, to vote for someone just because they were a wagon. That seems like way too dumb a move that mafia would make. In the end, he votes for Meat because of spite imo. On June 23 2014 11:58 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 11:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
im not going to share my thought process on one person. deal with it... You might not like how I'm gonna deal with it ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 Honestly, I don't blame him for that. Meat was posting like crap at the end. He wouldn't answer some of JabberZerg's qustions either. The way he voted for Meat isn't as methodical like those that listed reasons for voting for Meat. I'd think a mafia is always going to try to be methodical and use pseudo-logic to cover themselves, instead of voting based on emotion. I had a scumread on JabberZerg before I looked through his filter. Now I think he looks a bit town to me. Haruhi - Town + Show Spoiler +Haruhi's posted a lot, and with the recent roleblock, I have to say I'd view her as town. She is conversing a ton, but is not afraid to throw votes on people she thinks is scummy so far. The first comes with her vote on Token. On June 22 2014 11:14 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 08:15 Lord Tolkien wrote:There really isn't much to say right now. All I can say is that Teemursu is my only solid read for me atm (as town). While Nydus has played with him before and says this behavior is alignment-null, he's instigating the scumhunting that town sorely needs early D1. As a result, I would peg him as town (or at least, a non-viable D1 lynch). That being said, I don't agree with any of the early lynch candidates thus far (as in, I don't have a strong enough read on any of them currently), and would rather lynch a lurker at this point in time. That includes scott, because his post was pretty much a non-response. Of Cats or meatpudding, if I had to choose a D1 lynch atm, I'd vote meatpudding solely based on thread contribution.
-Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure.
My general impression of mafia players in my limited experience is that they work to distance themselves as much as possible. I personally do not read too much into it atm; without a flip it's speculation. Lord tolkien, this is the wrong way to approach forum mafia. In forum mafia, you lynch for scum ONLY, not for information/clearing lurkers/usefulness to town. We usually clear lurkers with cops and people useful to town will die quick to mafia anyway. I have a feeling you knew this. Coupled with how you wanted to go with meatpudding but went with scott just for a wagon, you're playing really scummy. ##Vote: lord tolkien I read her as townie for doing this before, so I'll just post my previous reasoning again. On June 22 2014 11:14 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 08:15 Lord Tolkien wrote:There really isn't much to say right now. All I can say is that Teemursu is my only solid read for me atm (as town). While Nydus has played with him before and says this behavior is alignment-null, he's instigating the scumhunting that town sorely needs early D1. As a result, I would peg him as town (or at least, a non-viable D1 lynch). That being said, I don't agree with any of the early lynch candidates thus far (as in, I don't have a strong enough read on any of them currently), and would rather lynch a lurker at this point in time. That includes scott, because his post was pretty much a non-response. Of Cats or meatpudding, if I had to choose a D1 lynch atm, I'd vote meatpudding solely based on thread contribution.
-Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure.
My general impression of mafia players in my limited experience is that they work to distance themselves as much as possible. I personally do not read too much into it atm; without a flip it's speculation. Lord tolkien, this is the wrong way to approach forum mafia. In forum mafia, you lynch for scum ONLY, not for information/clearing lurkers/usefulness to town. We usually clear lurkers with cops and people useful to town will die quick to mafia anyway. I have a feeling you knew this. Coupled with how you wanted to go with meatpudding but went with scott just for a wagon, you're playing really scummy. ##Vote: lord tolkien
I wrote this in response
At this point in the game, I'm going to have to disagree with Haruhi. How could we possibly know who scum is on day one? I have a feeling that Teemursu is possible scum, but I'm not going to vote for Teemursu just yet because he's talking a lot and being active. If he turned out to be actual town that'd be even worse had we voted him off because he was an active contributor. If we get rid of all the active townies, then mafia has a significantly better shot at winning. Token's voting for Scott as someone who hasn't contributed much, which seems justified enough to me. In my first game I voted off a non-contributing townie, and I'd probably do it again, as he didn't defend himself well enough to sway votes off of him.
I personally, though, think that your pushing on Token was too hard, even voting for him so quickly, for it to be scummy though. I'd think a scum wouldn't want to put themselves out like that so easily. So, though I disagree with you for now, that doesn't mean I think you're scum. I'd say you were town for making a move that I found questionable, but only because I think a scum would be better than to make a move so rash. It's all pretty much impossible to tell anyways though.
Again, I tend not to put a lot of thought into day 1 posts. I did on my first mafia game and everything I had gathered at that point turned out to be wrong. I don't want that to happen again here.
Well, I spent an hour and a half writing this out. It's almost 2 now, so I should probably get some sleep. Usually I can stay up a lot later guys, but I'm not at my house right now, so it's not an option right now. Tomorrow I should be able to post more if I see anything I want to add, but I'm getting off for tonight after I post this and refresh. KK.
Her read on meatpudding makes a lot of sense, too. On June 22 2014 21:39 HaruRH wrote:In fact, meatpudding's vote on me is very questionable. 1) Contradicts himselfLet's take a look at his reason to vote for me. + Show Spoiler +On June 22 2014 20:58 meatpudding wrote:
Not very sure how to vote. I could read players that are defensive as scum.
##Vote: HaruRH
Haru is not really pushing town agenda. Asking vague questions, not pushing anyone in particular. Calling out when Hobbitus contradicts herself, does not seem like a good read to me.
I'm still leaning towards Teemu as scum. Teemu and Templar have played before, maybe that is why they are acting familiar, but it seems like Teemu's reads are off.
Cats is asking lots of questions, I am leaning town here.
On Templar, I think only his one long post gives much info. I think he plays town, but could be trying to give false info.
Tolkien seems noncommittal, then starts a bandwagon. Not sure here.
Hobbitus not posting much but looks like town trying to get some early reads.
That's all I have for now. TL'DR Asking vaque questions, not pushing anyone. By looking at what he has posted, all his questions were very vague and he never follows up on the questions. Also, he is pushing even less than me (He only stated he find teemu/Templar suspicious). If he is scum, he is currently finding suspicion on as many people as possible so that it will look less suspicious of him to jump wagons when the situation arises. 2) Does not stick to his readsHe initially read Templar and teemu as potential scum. Then, he votes me based on a 2 liner 'push' that can be applied to half the players here. This is similar to the point where I mention that he could be trying to jump wagons later on without getting suspected of doing so - he can freely jump between voting me, Templar and teemu. This is very indicative of scum since he as explained by himself. This is more than enough for a d1 vote for me. ##Unvote
##Vote: Meatpudding meatpudding doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so Haruhi calls him out on it. I happen to agree, too, and offer my own post about meatpudding where I vote for him. Haruhi's scum stance on meatpudding also attributes to her townieness I feel. Cats - Town lean + Show Spoiler +I really didn't pay much attention to Cats until he pointed out that Meat voted for him while ignoring Token. Honestly, I think I've been tunneling Cats as probable town whole game for little reason other than him being picked out unfairly by Meat and Nydus (whom I didn't agree with his vote). I saw nothing scummy about Cats when he was voted for. His vote for Meat was the most justified however out of all of us. On June 23 2014 07:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Ok, i'm voting MysteryMeat. I really don't like that he said i was super scummy for bringing up the idea of lynching an inactive while completely ignoring the fact that Tolkien did the same thing and voting me for it seeing as thread sentement wasn't exactly in my favour at the time. Him thinking i'm "super scummy" is completely disproportionate to the rest of the thread's view which is null to slightly scummy at best so i'm having a hard time thinking his implied certainty that i'm scum is genuine plus as i said at the time i looked like a likely lynch candidate and two people had voted for me shortly before his post. His double standard regarding my and Tolkien's scumminess combined with his overconfidence that i'm scum posted just when a wagon was forming on me looks like an excuse made up to jump on an easy bandwagon from my pov. Also him posting that a non alignment indicative thing is scummy is itself scummy, he's twisting things to suit his own purposes: Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 22:25 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 22 2014 22:01 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 17:49 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
yoyoyoyo whats up guys!
im the mystery of the meat! i know quite a few people here, teemu and nydus from vid mafia, epishade my self-proclaimed pretend to be best friend, and templar from blogs and stuff. Just from reading throug the last couple of pages
current reads:
THE_TEMPLAR:
he likes my blogs which is a pretty big plus one
I don't like how he links his mafia play filter. IMO its pretty scummy people who do it. ITs like guys this is how i play mafia, don't worry i can't possibly change my play and fool you guys. THE_Templar and one other posted their filters, which seemed pretty scummy.
I read Scott's posts and didn't really see any reason to vote on him. However its forum mafia, so voting 20 hours before deadline isn't that big of a deal as you can always switch. Don't mind him pressuring scott either.
King of the cats:
I honestly really don't like him, seems super scummy, in one of his arguments on lynching, he mentions that he doesn't care about alignment. If you can push a mislynch day1, then you can kill a stronger player in the night. Top scum at the moment.
Hobbitus:
Mentions its his first game. Considering this is a newbie game, makes sense that he would post it. However i don't really like that he posted that. He also blows stuff up. all in all, don't like his post buts its not enough to give a solid read on. leaning town.
Teemu:
excels at finding scum day1, perfectly alright with pinging people out. Also votes can change, at this point i feel like votes are just to pressure people. And in my experience, votes made closer to deadline mean a whole lot more.
meatpudding:
leaning town, didn't jump on any bandwagons, however its self-proclaimed which i don't really like.
Nydus:
seems pretty town, he's making reads, and he was a bit trolly at the begining with the haikus but switched into serious mode.
Every one else, just from a quick read through didn't stand out too much, or i forgot to post about them.
for now though, i'll vote on cat, as i think he's pretty scummy.
##VOTE: TheKingOfCats I would like to know what your actual read on Teemu is. All you've given is a description of what he is like in video mafia. I like the reasoning you gave behind your Templar read, although I am leaning town on him. Overall, I like the reads that you gave, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. I am leaning town on you MysteryMeat1. The things he said about Templar were not good points, he's trying to say that something that isn't alignment indicative is scummy. If Templar is scum then his point is valid given enough time but you can't make your scum play match your town play overnight, seeing as he's only played 3 games here and been scum in only 1 of them it's safe to say he doesn't even know how to play scum let alone match his scum play to his town play, and if he's town it would make sense to post filters from previous games so you can see if he's playing like he was in his past town games thus giving people a chance to meta read him. It's not inherently scummy and any attempt to paint it as such is just WIFOM. Fun fact: I confused Templar with Epishade and he confused Templar with Tolkien but amazingly the point still stands because this is only Tolkien's 3rd game. ##Vote: MysteryMeat1Predit: I'm not entirely sure i like the way this post is worded, feel free to give me shit for it.  This post, in conversation with Templar, is what makes me think he leans town. On June 23 2014 08:06 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 07:52 The_Templar wrote:On June 23 2014 07:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Also him posting that a non alignment indicative thing is scummy is itself scummy, he's twisting things to suit his own purposes: On June 22 2014 22:25 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 22 2014 22:01 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 17:49 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
yoyoyoyo whats up guys!
im the mystery of the meat! i know quite a few people here, teemu and nydus from vid mafia, epishade my self-proclaimed pretend to be best friend, and templar from blogs and stuff. Just from reading throug the last couple of pages
current reads:
THE_TEMPLAR:
he likes my blogs which is a pretty big plus one
I don't like how he links his mafia play filter. IMO its pretty scummy people who do it. ITs like guys this is how i play mafia, don't worry i can't possibly change my play and fool you guys. THE_Templar and one other posted their filters, which seemed pretty scummy.
I read Scott's posts and didn't really see any reason to vote on him. However its forum mafia, so voting 20 hours before deadline isn't that big of a deal as you can always switch. Don't mind him pressuring scott either.
King of the cats:
I honestly really don't like him, seems super scummy, in one of his arguments on lynching, he mentions that he doesn't care about alignment. If you can push a mislynch day1, then you can kill a stronger player in the night. Top scum at the moment.
Hobbitus:
Mentions its his first game. Considering this is a newbie game, makes sense that he would post it. However i don't really like that he posted that. He also blows stuff up. all in all, don't like his post buts its not enough to give a solid read on. leaning town.
Teemu:
excels at finding scum day1, perfectly alright with pinging people out. Also votes can change, at this point i feel like votes are just to pressure people. And in my experience, votes made closer to deadline mean a whole lot more.
meatpudding:
leaning town, didn't jump on any bandwagons, however its self-proclaimed which i don't really like.
Nydus:
seems pretty town, he's making reads, and he was a bit trolly at the begining with the haikus but switched into serious mode.
Every one else, just from a quick read through didn't stand out too much, or i forgot to post about them.
for now though, i'll vote on cat, as i think he's pretty scummy.
##VOTE: TheKingOfCats I would like to know what your actual read on Teemu is. All you've given is a description of what he is like in video mafia. I like the reasoning you gave behind your Templar read, although I am leaning town on him. Overall, I like the reads that you gave, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. I am leaning town on you MysteryMeat1. The things he said about Templar were not good points, he's trying to say that something that isn't alignment indicative is scummy. If Templar is scum then his point is valid given enough time but you can't make your scum play match your town play overnight, seeing as he's only played 3 games here and been scum in only 1 of them it's safe to say he doesn't even know how to play scum let alone match his scum play to his town play, and if he's town it would make sense to post filters from previous games so you can see if he's playing like he was in his past town games thus giving people a chance to meta read him. It's not inherently scummy and any attempt to paint it as such is just WIFOM. Fun fact: I confused Templar with Epishade and he confused Templar with Tolkien but amazingly the point still stands because this is only Tolkien's 3rd game. ##Vote: MysteryMeat1Predit: I'm not entirely sure i like the way this post is worded, feel free to give me shit for it. I agree his quick scum read on you is sort of sudden and not particularly justified. But he's barely posted since then so maybe he was planning on not doing much for the rest of the day. If that was supposed to be a defence of MM it's not a very good one. Him possibly not planning on doing much for the rest of the day is hardly alignment indicative and if anything coming up with a weak reason to join a wagon and fucking off till flip is actually scummy. I think here, Cats slightly suspects Templar of potentially defending MM for his vote, thinking they are both potential mafia. If he were mafia, he wouldn't care to throw this suspicion at Templar (as slight as it might have been) because he knows that MM would flip town, and everything he suspected Templar of wouldn't matter after that. He didn't know at this point, and so he expressed doubt that Templar was actually town through his defense of Meat. He also analyzes my post about Token's death as well. On June 24 2014 21:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 14:35 Epishade wrote:
Ermm, I was really not expecting Token to get shot, of all people. I expected either myself, Haruhi, or Templar to die tbh, as we've all been townread for the majority of the game by most people. Token could have been a potential case if someone were to call him out, so I have a hard time rationalizing why mafia would shoot Token over someone more townie.
The only way I can see Token's shot being justified is if mafia thought he was on the right track and shot him to get rid of him, because objectively, that looked like a bad shot to me. You usually shoot people that have little chance of getting lynched for reading townie, but there seemed to be enough suspicion on Token (or at least, more than the three people I listed above) for me to think that that wasn't the reason he was shot.
There are a few people that Token scumreads over day 1, and I think that probably played a part in his death.
His scumreads:
JabberZerg (initially, then changed his mind to a townread at 4:00, which wouldn't have given mafia time to change their shot if JabberZerg wanted to keep Token alive for townreading him, assuming that Jabber is mafia)
meatpudding
Teemursu
Cats
His townreads:
Haruhi
Templar
me
Hobbit (only in his post at 4:00)
Fence reads:
Nydus
Dunno reads:
GlowBear
Other peoples
So I think the cases should probably be focused on people in his scum list at this point. I mean, he did say for people to look at me, GlowBear, and Nydus day 2 in his 4:02 post, but I'm not considering these specifically right now because they came too late to be able to influence mafia, and I'm only looking at the reasoning for shooting Token here over someone else.
He also asked me to post my reads on him, Cats, and meatpudding at this point, too, but I woke up too early today and am dead tired. I'll post my reads on everybody I have reads for sometime tomorrow after I wake up.
Night all. First of all you're assuming that scum shot Tolkien, it's possible that scum got jailed/roleblocked and the vig shot Tolkien. Tolkien being shot because be suspected the right people makes little sense but lets analyze it a bit. If me or meatpudding are scum it would be pointless to shoot him for suspecting us because half the game does, if either of us were to shoot him it wouldn't change anything for us and it would actually be detrimental for us to do that as scum because Tolkien was looking scummy to a lot of people too and he would've been one of the easier people to push for a mislynch. seeing as him, me and meatpudding were the main lynch candidates today we wouldn't kill one of our most valid chances to escape a lynch. Teemu, well this one's simple. If he was going to shoot someone for being "on" to him it would've been meatpudding because meatpudding's been on him more. Why would he shoot Tolkien over meatpudding? Why would he shoot either of them for that matter? They were both suspicious to a lot of people and he wasn't. As for Jabber...i dunno. He seems to be on a few peoples radars if i remember correctly, it would make more sense to shoot one of them for being "on" to him as opposed to one of the lynch candidates. It really doesn't make sense for scum to shoot him especially for the reason you posted. Personally i think the less likely situation of scum's NK being blocked and a Vig targeting Tolkien is more likely. He's thinking like a townie here, thinking through all the people he might think would have reason to shoot Token, and explaining why or why not they might have done it. He also suggests that vigi killed Token and mafia's shot was blocked, which, though I think is a little unlikely still, is not outside chance, considering Templar was jailed (which I didn't know at the time). Nydus - Scum lean + Show Spoiler +I started off Nydus with a townlead originally for asking Templar to ignore any of Teemursu's video mafia experience in making reads on him, here. (Sorry for formatting). Show nested quote +
On June 22 2014 08:20 The_Templar wrote:
Personally, I don't know about Teemu, partly because I don't know about video mafia. I'm going to research this further. Scum-hunting isn't essential on day 1; I think it's more of a developing point in the game but that's just my two cents.
I don't like Scott's posts very much.
I'd like you to imagine that Teemu had absolutely no experience in video mafia prior to this forum game. I say this because I feel like you're holding back on reading him because of two possible reasons. One, you're used to active day 1 scum hunting as being a mafia tell but I'm telling you that it's not. Two, you're scum trying to give multiple null reads in order to keep your options open in the future. I changed my stance on him though when he voted for Cats. On June 22 2014 16:05 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 16:03 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 22 2014 15:45 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 15:42 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 22 2014 15:42 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 15:41 Teemursu wrote:
Haru, could you give your case on Lord Tolkien if you think he's scum?? EDIT: Minus one question mark.  It's way less frantic now : ) Hey, jabber, you're in the thread with me, cool! Let's talk. What's your read on Scott? Scott just seems totally lost tbh. Nothing he has said is really scummy. He could definitely put in more work for the town, but that just comes from inexperience. New Scum players tend to go overboard or post almost nothing, which isn't what he's doing. Anything you want to say about him? I absolutely agree with this. He seems completely inexperienced rather than scummy. #Vote: TheKingOfCatsI still think that TheKingOfCats is the most scummy, followed by MeatPudding. I will update my vote accordingly but that is how I stand at the moment. He votes for Cats with his reasoning here: On June 22 2014 02:21 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 02:14 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 02:07 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 22 2014 01:53 Teemursu wrote:On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote:
As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it.
Why does it seem forced? I'm not reaction testing him. I did get a towny feel from what he said in the brackets.
I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town.
I don't really hear you giving town/scum perspective reads either. I didn't necessarily read his defensiveness caused by TheKingOfCats's null read to come from a towny perspective. Could you specifically explain that read? When I play with you in video mafia, your town reads come from hearing people give several reads, and deciding on whether or not you like their logic. Seeing you give a quick town read for something very small that I personally don't see as being particularly alignment indicative is very weird from you. Perhaps your playstyle is different on forum mafia but if this were video mafia, you'd be quick to drop into my scum list. Having played with me before, you should know that my town and scum reads come from small things that people do or say whereas your reads come from a bigger picture. Reading the posts again, I realize that TheKingOfCats didn't even give a null read, rather, he gave no read at all. Meatpudding's defensiveness actually does seem scummy. I am getting names mixed up and should read more carefully. Personally, I feel like I'm expressing things here that I don't normally bother saying in video. I agree with you getting town reads from small things, but I rarely hear you explain reads by saying from which alignment/perspective players are telling their reads. In either case, we should evaluate each other based on this game alone. Discussing how our play might differ from different form of mafia is probably not going to give us much. In any case, what's your read on TheKingOfCats? My read on TheKingOfCats so far is that he is potential scum with MeatPudding.Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:17 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:51 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 22:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:46 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:
Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. I don't like this. What don't you like about it? The joke felt forced. Admitting to lurking and not at least saying you'll have more reads later on in the day rings scummy to me. Anyway, I just wanted to ping someone out. Do you have any early reads? It's too early for me to have any reads. Seeing as this is Meatpudding's first game i don't think his post was alignment indicative but if he doesn't contribute anything he'll be a good lynch regardless of his alignment. Show nested quote +On June 22 2014 01:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:52 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote:
Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes.
I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e.
I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though).
My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar.
I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:
Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town? TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. So I didn't specifically call you out. Apparently I got a reaction anyway, which is good, considering I just said I only pinged you out. I don't feel like TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch you at all, and I'm not sure how I should read your defensiveness about that (new player/mafia being pushed). He did give a fence read on you though. Like, It's obvious that we should lynch people who don't contribute at all. He's someone I'm going to keep my eye on. Please explain to me how i gave a fence read on meatpudding when i didn't give a read on him at all. I find it weird that TheKingOfCats' first reaction is to question Teemu on a supposed "null read" when I feel like MeatPudding saying that TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch him (pretty much saying that TheKingOfCats has a scum read on him) is a much scummier thing. Ok, so he thinks meatpudding and Cats are a scumteam right now, and Cats is townreading meatpudding for that reason. However, he seems to contradict himself, as he said before that he doesn't think scum aligns themselves so early in the game. On June 22 2014 01:39 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:59 Teemursu wrote:Yeah, I'm probably the most serious person you'll meet on this forum. I actually kinda like this read. Feels like it's coming from a towny perspective. We -are- all new here and some are playing for the first time, and your read has that ring to it. As someone who plays with you a lot in video mafia, I feel like this is not a typical read of yours. Seems a bit forced, and I hope that it's a reaction test. If it is, I'd like you to explain what you got from it. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:31 meatpudding wrote:On June 21 2014 23:19 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 23:09 meatpudding wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 20:41 The_Templar wrote:
Hi, I'm The_Templar. I'm from the sc2 section. I am a mapmaker and I live report sometimes.
I play a lot of sc2 mafia (the mod) but it's filled with idiots and trolls so I decided I wanted a challenge here. I played a game in TL+ where I was a mafia goon but I don't think anyone else here has TL+ to compare it so w/e.
I know Epishade and MM1 because they are pretty good at blogs, as well as meatpudding (not that well though).
My name story is that I wanted a 'normal' name when I was 13 so I decided to pick a unit, but I didn't want to pick just one so I decided to be ambiguous with templar.
I… am not a star trek fan, but I'll bear the flavor as if it's normal flavor.
Good luck everyone! Since you're wondering, it was a direct response to this post. I usually browse custom maps but don't often post there. What was a direct response to that post? This post was a response to Templar: On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:
Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. But I was just describing my general forum attitude. Since I signed up to play I intend to contribute of course. Teemu was quick to call me out though, but he backed up Templar straight away. Two scum trying to blend in with town?TheKingOfCats tries to lynch me as well, but I think he's town trying to prod me if I'm mafia. I don't think scum align themselves so quickly. The read seems a bit weak but I don't necessarily think it comes from scum. Your read on TheKingOfCats seems to come from a towny perspective. Not sure what to think of you yet but leaning town. So he says he doesn't think scum aligns themselves so quickly, but is ready to vote for Cats based on your thought that, since he said he didn't think meatpudding's post was particularly alignment indicative. Wouldn't that imply that Cats and meatpudding had aligned themselves together? Anyways, I thought Nydus' vote kind of contradicted that, and I didn't think Cats was scummy at the time, so I questioned his vote. Afterwards, he changes his vote to MysteryMeat here, and townreads Haruhi, Token, and JabberZerg. On June 23 2014 12:23 NydusHerMain wrote:I just woke up so I should have a clearer mind for this. ##: UnvoteLordTolkien: Town + Show Spoiler +LordTolkien starts off the game saying that people trying to solve the game are town, and that lurkers are mafia. I thought that this was scummy because of how he was defending Teemu just for being someone being active. He didn't just say that Teemu was off the table, he said that Teemu was town. However, as I read through his filter, it is clear that his reads keep updating. I feel like it is more indicative of scum to tunnel on certain people with weak reasons, whereas LordTolkien looks like he's constantly getting new town and scum reads. Town + Show Spoiler +On June 21 2014 23:57 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:48 Solar424 wrote:
Hello. I am new to TL, and this is the first time playing Mafia online, bu I know the rules. you know the rules, and so do I Feels like it's coming from a town perspective. I know it's a weird thing to town read someone off of but it looks like he's annoyed with this post in a "Wow, thanks for the input, I also read the rules" kind of way. As opposed to most people, his reads aren't as polarized and it gives the feel of him trying to find out why people find certain people scummy that he has a town or fence read on. Town + Show Spoiler +Sigh... I was reading through his attack on The_Templar based on how The_Templar supposedly knew there was more than one mafia... it was pregame filter. Hard to clear my mind from that but I'll try. As of this moment, his play feels very consistent. Can't really see any glaring inconsistencies. The fact that he compiled reads that people made alone makes me want to say that he's town just for effort but we all know that effort is not alignment indicative. I didn't like how he had a lot of fluff when people were already in scum hunting mode. Actually, to be honest, he's asking great questions. I was going to say leaning town just because of the fluff but I feel like his contributions outweigh that. I wanted to give more detailed reads on everyone but I feel like I don't have enough time with how much time is left in the day to actually finish my reads so I'm going to be way more concise from now on. I don't think that TheKingOfCats is as scummy as I originally thought he was. I feel like MysteryMeat1 just sheeped my read on him and is actually scummier than I thought. I was pretty tired when I made those reads initially. I rescind my town read on Teemu, I pretty much townread him because our reads seemed to align but after reading through the thread again, I feel like our reads are starting to differ. I'm not saying that it means Teemu is scum, but I'm just not feeling him as town as I did prior. The_Templar I'm getting towny vibes from, otherwise, I don't really have standout reads. Everyone else is more leaning null aside from MeatPudding who I also think is scummy. ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 Though, he does rescind his read on Teemursu and Cats, it's a while after everyone kind of already knew Cats wasn't going to be lynched and Teemursu was being read as scummy anyways. I don't think it would make much sense for a scum to keep those opposing views, but a townie could just as well do the same, so I can't hold that against Nydus here. He does end up voting Meat without an explanation. Could just be he didn't think he had time to read through and come up with a reason? Idk, that's not alignment indicative either though. He was scumreading meatpudding too, so he could have voted for meatpudding just as well here. It didn't really matter which Meat he picked here. He ends up townreading Haruhi, Token, and JabberZerg, too. JabberZerg he townreads based on a joke that Jabber made though, so I'm not sure if he'd still want to keep that read, as he didn't realize Jabber was referring to a song in the post that he townreads him. I started out this read thinking that Nydus was scum, but now I'm not entirely sure. He's a scumlean at best, but he conflicts with a lot of other people I thought were scum too, such as Teemursu and meatpudding. GlowBear - Slight town + Show Spoiler +GlowBear's a little harder of a read for me. I kind of think he is town for questioning Haruhi's alignment, since she is a large part of the thread and he's worried she may be leading us astray, especially when nobody views Haruhi as scum currently (I don't think). On June 24 2014 02:15 GlowingBear wrote:
I think Haru is dangerous because he leads our reads. He ask questions to be answered and, therefore, changes the route of our reasoning. If he is scum, he has got us on his hands.
But I never saw any scum sign in his posts. I think he ask good questions that may help town. So, I think he is townie. I also like that he's clearly giving his reads on everybody in the game, as this makes it harder for him to backtrack on somebody that he thinks might be scum. He doesn't go too in-depth in his reads, but the fact that he's doing it at all seems kind of townie to me. On June 23 2014 08:06 GlowingBear wrote:Ok, following this order, here are my reads of these reads: On Nydus's: + Show Spoiler + He's got the same reads i've got on meatpudding and TheKingOfCats (I've said earlier that I wasn't really sure about meatpudding but after analyzing his reads I've started to believe he is leaning scum, I'll tell why on his time), although I don't think he's got good grounds on it. I don't think that questioning Teemu instead of TheKingOfCats is ground for possible scummy.
That said, I don't actually see solid argumentation here, but nothing suspicious. Null-read on Nydus. On MysteryMeat's: + Show Spoiler + *On his reads on The_Templar, I don't see direct relation between having scum filters and that being scummy. You may clarify this assumption so I could understand it better, but it means nothing to me right now.
*On his reads on scott, I'm with him. I'd just say that, as someone said, Scott is kinda lost in the game. ALTHOUGH voting on himself looked very suspicious. Sounded like he was trying to get away from being lynched by looking as a victim.
*On his reads on Cats, I' with him again. Most of TheKingOfCats posts sounds scummy to me.
*On his reads on Hobbitus, I don't see a problem on saying that it's her first game. I have a townie-read on Hobbitus, but I need to read more of her posts to get a stronger read.
*On his reads on Teemu, I disagree. As someone said, forcing a "pinging out" before analyzing meatpudding's reaction was suspicious, as to push voting to someone he knows it's not his partner in case he is a scum. Some other of his posts have a scummy vibe, although sometimes I see him leaning townie. I have no reads on Teemu by now.
*On his reads on meatpudding, I disagree. He sounded scum in the beginning of the game and in other times later. I have a specific argument which I'll reveal while analyzing meatpudding reads.
*On his reads on Nydus, I'm not really sure. I think Nydus is leaning townie, but that's a weak read I have.
That said, there is little I can tell about MysteryMeat. Null-read. I will do a less detailed read on reads from now on, or the post will get too big. On Templar's: + Show Spoiler + His reads are kinda confusing for me, actually. He suspects Nydus but doesn't suspect Cats nor meatpudding? Then, after, assumes that his best guess for scum is Cats? It's confusing and I don't agree with it but I have to admit his grounds on Nydus are ok.
Null-read on Templar's for now, I think if he could clarify his assumptions I'd have a better read on him On Tolkien's (and about Lurking) + Show Spoiler + I think he has no grounds on Scott and his "lynch all lurkers" policy worries me. As one of the guides said, it's a common blue strategy to lurk. But that's not the main point.
The main point is: if you are Mafia and you have Mafia partners lurking, would you risk forcing this "lynch all lurkers" policy? I don't think so. Now, if you are Mafia and all your partners are on the game, what would you do? Force the policy so you could lynch a blue, as lurking is a common blue strategy.
Moreover, if you are convincend I am town, this means that lurkers definetely weren't all Mafia, which would mean that Mafia strategy of lynching lurkers is a huge possibility.
Again, saying "As for the possibility of hitting a lurking blue role or whatever, it is a risk" worries me the most. Would you take the risk to take a cop out of the game instead of trying to identify active scum?
Because of these, I have a strong scumread on Tolkien He is still forcing this policy by now. On Haru's: + Show Spoiler +He's got the same opinion as I. Moreover, I said before I have a strong feeling Haru is townie. Therefore, thats how I read him. On Epishade's: + Show Spoiler + Alright, not sure what to think about Teemu and Templar, as I said before. Therefore, I cannot totally disagree with the arguments Epishade brought. Really hard to analyze. But at least he brought plausible arguments.
I have a leaning town read on Epishade because I think he is trying to contribute and brings good grounds with his reads, although I might not agree with them.. On Teemu's: + Show Spoiler + Again, not sure what to think about Teemu and his reads are ok but I can't see his grounds in this post. Not a reliable read I must say. On Scott's: + Show Spoiler + I've not got much to say, it's pratically the point of view I'm having of the game right now. Makes me wonder if I'm misunderstaning his self-vote. I'd null-read him for now. On meatpudding's: + Show Spoiler +
"Not very sure how to vote. I could read players that are defensive as scum.
##Vote: HaruRH
Haru is not really pushing town agenda. Asking vague questions, not pushing anyone in particular. Calling out when Hobbitus contradicts herself, does not seem like a good read to me.
I'm still leaning towards Teemu as scum. Teemu and Templar have played before, maybe that is why they are acting familiar, but it seems like Teemu's reads are off.
Cats is asking lots of questions, I am leaning town here.
On Templar, I think only his one long post gives much info. I think he plays town, but could be trying to give false info.
Tolkien seems noncommittal, then starts a bandwagon. Not sure here.
Hobbitus not posting much but looks like town trying to get some early reads.
That's all I have for now."
There is a huge contradiction here. Meatpudding is declaring Haru guilty for the same reason he decides Cats is not-guilty. He says that Haru is asking vague questions, but if Cats isn't, I don't know how a precise question should be. This seems really suspicious and, as I think Cats is probably scum, meatpudding may trying to cover up a partner.
I have a strong scumread here. On Haru's (again) + Show Spoiler + Haru has got the same opinion as I, that meatpudding is contradicting(?) himself, and I've concluded this opinion before even reading Haru's scumread. I'm with him. On Templar's (again): + Show Spoiler + Once again, I cannot read Templar. But this time he brought good grounds on most of his assumptions, although I might not agree with them. Phew, that took long! Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him. So... ##Vote: meatpudding Glowbear also calls into question my post about Token's death, which is good, though I disagree with him on which of his scenarios is more likely. On June 24 2014 23:24 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2014 14:35 Epishade wrote:
Ermm, I was really not expecting Token to get shot, of all people. I expected either myself, Haruhi, or Templar to die tbh, as we've all been townread for the majority of the game by most people. Token could have been a potential case if someone were to call him out, so I have a hard time rationalizing why mafia would shoot Token over someone more townie.
The only way I can see Token's shot being justified is if mafia thought he was on the right track and shot him to get rid of him, because objectively, that looked like a bad shot to me. You usually shoot people that have little chance of getting lynched for reading townie, but there seemed to be enough suspicion on Token (or at least, more than the three people I listed above) for me to think that that wasn't the reason he was shot.
There are a few people that Token scumreads over day 1, and I think that probably played a part in his death.
His scumreads:
JabberZerg (initially, then changed his mind to a townread at 4:00, which wouldn't have given mafia time to change their shot if JabberZerg wanted to keep Token alive for townreading him, assuming that Jabber is mafia)
meatpudding
Teemursu
Cats
His townreads:
Haruhi
Templar
me
Hobbit (only in his post at 4:00)
Fence reads:
Nydus
Dunno reads:
GlowBear
Other peoples
So I think the cases should probably be focused on people in his scum list at this point. I mean, he did say for people to look at me, GlowBear, and Nydus day 2 in his 4:02 post, but I'm not considering these specifically right now because they came too late to be able to influence mafia, and I'm only looking at the reasoning for shooting Token here over someone else.
He also asked me to post my reads on him, Cats, and meatpudding at this point, too, but I woke up too early today and am dead tired. I'll post my reads on everybody I have reads for sometime tomorrow after I wake up.
Night all. Your post strike me as odd. It's because the scenario you've brought isn't the only one possible. Possible scenarios are: 1) Tolkien was on the right track and asking the right questions, so it was better for Mafia to make him shut up. This is too simplistic, it would easily lead townies to lynch the right people. I don't think Mafia would do this. 2) Tolkien wasn't on the right track but being shot would lead town to misread other townies. This one seems more plausible to me. 3) My stupid mistake made them change their top townies change targets to someone who had more scumreads 4) Top townies are actually very good scums and they killed at random (I think this is too much) As I think (2) is more plausible, your post striked me as odd because you seem to push (1) as the only possible interpretation, leading townies to misreads and, therefore, to mislynchs. I'll keep an eye on you. meatpudding - Scum lean + Show Spoiler +
meatpudding has, like MysteryMeat, not exactly used the best logic in his posts. A lot of people have called him out on it and I don't really feel like thoroughly going through his filter to restate what has already been said.
I'll just say that my current read on him is probably tied for scummy with Teemursu atm, with Nydus first.
Hobbit - Dunno. Kinda town. + Show Spoiler +I put Hobbit in a similar area of townieness to GlowBear. He lists his reads, like GlowBear did too. On June 23 2014 03:57 Hobbitus wrote:
Might as well do this systematically:
1. Lord Tolkien-On the fence
I like that he's consistent on voting for people that are not the best contributors. How much I agree with this logic is less cut and dry. For D1, I think it's acceptable, I think there will be a lot more to go on after someone flips. He's not saying too much else though.
2. Jabberwockzerg-Leaning scum
Not really contributing much, giving alignment reads but no real arguments of substance to go with them. Pushing Tolkien for I have no idea what reason. Also talking up cats, who has been meh this whole game for me.
3. HaruRH-On the fence
I think his read on Tolkien was too aggressive, but he later retracts this. I don't like his read on meatpudding either, but consistently disagreeing with someone doesn't mean their alignment isn't the same as yours.
4. Thekingofthecats-On the fence
I just haven't been blown away by his contribution, especially when prefaced by his post about how he likes to help town by contributing. He did try to warn us though. Also I find his timing to enter the game suspicious, as it was right after Teemu said he wasn't contributing and while scott/Templar were discussing the scumminess of lurkers.
5. NydusHerMain-Leaning town
Makes good points, I like that he was willing to challenge Teemu.
6. Solar424 (crickets chirp)
7. GlowingBear (crickets chirp)
8. Meatpudding-leaning town
I agree with most of his reads. The only thing I dislike is how quick he is to see himself as the victim when Teemu is involved.
9. Hobbitus-town obviously
10. Teemursu-leaning scum
I was getting scum vibes a lot in the first few posts, but less so now. My first instinct makes me suspicious, but what he said about scott being able to replace rather than waste a lynch has been partial redemption. Also he is contributing a lot, which makes me agree with everyone else about him being a bad D1 lynch.
11. Epishade-leaning town
Like the logic, want more posts.
12. Scott31337-on the fence
Fighting to figure out if he's making mistakes from inexperience or scumminess. I really dislike his dialogue with Templar about total lurkers getting modkilled.
13. The_Templar-town
A really strong town vibe, every post. Still going to keep my eye out, but my most certain read rn.
14: MysteryMeat1-on the fence
His post just seems careless. Need more info.
15: BlondeMocha (crickets chirp) A lot of what he says is also things that I can see the logic in and agree with. At this point in the game, Haruhi had just voted for Token, which I thought was questionable but gave me a townread on her. Hobbit reads Haruhi as a little scummy for it, which I can also see the reasoning for. He's also suspicious of Teemursu, as am I. Here, too, he reinforces my townie read on him. On June 23 2014 09:53 Hobbitus wrote:But I'm still stuck in the same position then: is he scum or bad town? Tolkien, you'll vote him either way, why should I?  I'd imagine a scum would likely just not even bother asking something like this, and instead just figure out their own reasoning to vote for MysteryMeat. No reason to ask this if you're scum. Teemursu - Slight scum lean + Show Spoiler +My opinion on Teemursu is less scummy than before, but still a little bit. So I'll post the reasoning that I used before in thinking him as scum. On June 22 2014 14:42 Epishade wrote:As for Teemursu, he's got a few posts that make me a little suspicious. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 22:51 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 22:47 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 21 2014 22:46 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:
Yeah I don't post that much. I lurk more than I post. Maybe I should be called The_Lurker. I don't like this. What don't you like about it? The joke felt forced. Admitting to lurking and not at least saying you'll have more reads later on in the day rings scummy to me. Anyway, I just wanted to ping someone out. Do you have any early reads? Someone making a joke that Teemursu thought felt forced sounded scummy to him doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I realize that generally, people like others to post more than lurk, but pudding admitting that he probably won't post that much doesn't sound all that scummy to me. He's never played before on TL (afaik), so we have no way of knowing his true posting style. He could just be upfront about the way he thinks he's going to post, but that doesn't ring scummy to me. Doesn't read town for me either, he just wants people to know his posting style so we don't lynch him for lurking, instead of actual content he produces. Show nested quote +On June 21 2014 23:58 Teemursu wrote:On June 21 2014 23:54 NydusHerMain wrote:On June 21 2014 22:48 Solar424 wrote:
Hello. I am new to TL, and this is the first time playing Mafia online, bu I know the rules. Feeling a bit rushed, spelling error, no details, I think you are scum Hi, Nydus. It's going to be an interesting challenge to try to read you. I expect a lot from your haiku mastery. May they be plentiful and insightful. 8O) Does anybody else think that this doesn't sound like something that a townie might say? "It's going to be an interesting challenge to try to read you." Maybe I'm being pedantic here, but that sounds like something a mafia would say in an attempt to sound like town. I couldn't see a town saying that, but maybe I'm overthinking it, idk. However, On June 23 2014 20:33 Teemursu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2014 12:57 Lord Tolkien wrote:
But no seriously you're fine, just...you need to work on making sense. If you are town, such a glaring discrepancy in analysis like what you did will get you punished unless it was deliberate (and you'll get punished for that too, like I learned my last newbie mafia gaem <_< ). And you really need to work on making sense. Because I still can't follow your line of thinking in your defense afterwards.
If you're scum, die. I want you to stop flip-flopping on MeatPudding. This isn't updating your own reads, as Nydus said. It sounds more like being unsettled to call your scum partner one way or the other. You say he's fine, and you coach him on how to play better as town. But just in case he's scum, you tell him to die.I'm saying you're not fine, and that you need to dig yourself out from the hole you've jumped in to by making this case on MM1 on weak basis. By making the case based on him having discrepancy in analysis and not making much sense, while these are the exact same things MeatPudding should be accused of, and you still think he is "fine". You most certainly are scum, and you need to die. This is another thing I don't see a scum saying to Token. Though I disagree with how nitpicky he is being to Token here, I think the content of what he posts here leans town a bit. He's being fairly accusatory to Token, almost as if he expected Token to be a primary lynch candidate Day 2. But since Token died in the night, Teemursu wouldn't have had to worry about doing this. If Teemursu were mafia, there's no reason he'd have to put pressure on Token right now when MysteryMeat had turned up town, since he shot him later that night. It doesn't really seem like a mafia thing to do, to me. So...a little conflicted about Teemursu now. I still think he might be mafia, just not as much as before. Templar - Town + Show Spoiler +
He got jailed. He's been posting a ton. He's been pretty logical in all of his posts. He tried to help Meat out when he was being pressured. And he likes my blogs. All townie behavior if you ask me.
Honestly, unless a vigi claims and says that he didn't shoot Token, I think you're town.
I know I have some people listed as scum, that, if they happened to be scum, would eliminate some of my others as scum. The 2 people I want to pay most attention to right now are Nydus and Teemursu actually, maybe meatpudding too. These two conflict with each other though, and both conflict with meatpudding, but I think one of the two is scum. Goddamn, that took way too long to write. "Scum lean" "Town lean" sounds so passive. If someone wants some homework go look at this guys previous newbie game he was town in. I feel like if you're going to call someone mafia you should say scum. The whole "lean" thing sounds like you don't want to make enemies or leaving your options open. (Just to clarify I didn't read your spoilers yet as I'm not caught up so the content might change how I feel but first impression gets a big scummy MEH) This is one of the reasons why I have been reading him as "trying hard to sound towny". IMHO, He's continued the same kind of way of talking by switching on the MM1 bandwagon by calling MeatPudding a misguided townie, while MeatPudding has in my opinion had even more bad & inconsistent logic. It's Teemursu's incredible nitpickyness that I find to be a trait of scum. I will say that my early read on Teemursu was based on some of his word choice, too though. So call me a hypocrite if you must or feel free to point out the contradiction. That's just how I feel. Ok, you know what. I'm just sick of writing so much and reading through filters. I have no idea how accurate my reads are and it sucks to know that all this could very likely end up untrue, which I'm sure it might be. Fuck it, I'm voting for JabberZerg. I can't tell who to vote for anymore and she's been flying under the radar for too long now. ##Vote: JabberZergBuahahahahaha!!!! sdea fgsdafn jd still not a girl Is that really important? How about you focus on the issue? ##Unvote
##Vote: jabberwockzergOut of time but after this next WCS series I'll write something up on Epishade, who's acting sort of strangely, and Nydus, who is… improving a bit maybe? Not sure… I've been noncommittal and shitty and lurky Can't seem to focus on this game as much as I should be. wouldn't fault anyone for voting me BUT there is so little information to be gained from my flip that it will be more useful to leave me kicking around for at least another day and see what happens from there I'll try harder, stop daydrinking, etc. If you're scum i don't care how little information we get from lynching you. Convince us not to vote for you now, don't just say "Yeah guys i'll start doing stuff after flip...promise" You can start by posting what info, according to you, we would get from your flip and then you can answer this: On June 26 2014 09:01 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 08:55 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 26 2014 08:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 22 2014 16:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
yeah, pudding's a townlean
I'd be most comfortable with a tolkien vote, but I want him to read my post about scott and react to it, defend his wagon.
I'll agree with a fence on KittyCats, he's asking questions, but I'm noticing a lack of content. On June 23 2014 10:53 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 10:48 meatpudding wrote:
Back. I'e reading the thread now. If you're voting Mystery or me, then I don't really have a choice anyway. But I'll flesh out my reads anyway. I'm very interested in what you have to say, I'm undecided about which meat to vote for, and you posting at all is a good sign Why was pudding a townlean for you at the time and what led you to change your mind and think that he might be a good lynch at the end of the day? It was his silence after coming under heavy suspicion So him possibly being away from his computer and not being able to respond to the things being said against him immediately was what led you to disregard your townread of him and seriously consider his lynch? Was there anything else he did at the time that struck you as scummy? Also: On June 26 2014 08:43 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 08:30 jabberwockzerg wrote:I'm liking this Nydus vote. His random pressure vote just seems a little off to me Not that pressure votes are scummy, but it's better to be clear with the town that that is what your doing, and On June 25 2014 11:28 NydusHerMain wrote:
##Vote: GlowingBear
towny feel isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia "isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia" I want you to give a more detailed reason than that to jump on the Nydus wagon. Saying what he's doing isn't necessarily scummy but voting for him because it seemed "off" isn't good enough. Jabber your silence after coming under heavy suspicion is incredibly scummy, in fact i think it's enough to sway my vote.  ##Vote: Jabberwockzerg Phew. Too much confusion. Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now. ##Unvote
##Vote: Jabberwockzerg
Also, I don't see why you scumread Templar when you did the exact same thing. You did not change wagons even after you saw the arguments for a nydus lynch and a epi lynch.
On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
Nope. Was kotc contradictory? Was nydus contradictory? (If yes, in what sense?) The only contradictory lynch that could have happened d2 was epi's lynch. but it did not follow through.
So you can identify that mafia was the people who started and led the mislynches. Give me a list of people who started the mislynches.
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On June 27 2014 22:29 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 21:56 The_Templar wrote:
Beginning wake-up processes…
Nice wagon between you two btw, reading the rest of the posts I'm not starting a wagon, in starting a crusade. I and Hobbitus had similar behaviours. It means nothing, only a slight suggestion we have the same alignment. I invite everyone to read through my last night post and judge if I don't have fair reasoning.
so Templar's 'no confrontation' behaviour was scummy, but your 'push Templar with different reasons but tried to link them' behaviour isn't scummy?
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On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that?
Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised.
What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post.
That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim.
And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's.
If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches.
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On June 27 2014 23:14 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 22:29 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 21:56 The_Templar wrote:
Beginning wake-up processes…
Nice wagon between you two btw, reading the rest of the posts I'm not starting a wagon, in starting a crusade. I and Hobbitus had similar behaviours. It means nothing, only a slight suggestion we have the same alignment. I invite everyone to read through my last night post and judge if I don't have fair reasoning. so Templar's 'no confrontation' behaviour was scummy, but your 'push Templar with different reasons but tried to link them' behaviour isn't scummy?
Didn't understand your question. Are your asking if my push on him is scummy?
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Why would scum push so hard, so obviously, and at the same exact time? I decided to push Templar today, if bear does the same exact thing, it makes no difference to me.
This is my first game, I am changing my reads, even completely flipping my opinion on people as I figure out what's going on. All I know is not a single scum has been lynched yet, and after mm and Tolkien died I had to seriously reconsider what I thought made someone scummy. That change my opinion on cats to town, which was confirmed last night. I also didn't really see the case on nydus (but was behind so I didn't know if I missed something major). Before that I had been wrong about everyone, so it seems my new method of thinking is more accurate.
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On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches.
On June 27 2014 23:09 HaruRH wrote:
Nope. Was kotc contradictory? Was nydus contradictory? (If yes, in what sense?) The only contradictory lynch that could have happened d2 was epi's lynch. but it did not follow through.
Why are you trying to persuade me that ML is due to contradictions in posts? Are you opening some sort of way for scum to post contradictions and not get called out for bad logic? 1 bad lynch only, MM, which at most clears meatpudding since both of them makes bucketloads of contradictions.
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On June 27 2014 23:28 Hobbitus wrote:
Why would scum push so hard, so obviously, and at the same exact time? I decided to push Templar today, if bear does the same exact thing, it makes no difference to me.
This is my first game, I am changing my reads, even completely flipping my opinion on people as I figure out what's going on. All I know is not a single scum has been lynched yet, and after mm and Tolkien died I had to seriously reconsider what I thought made someone scummy. That change my opinion on cats to town, which was confirmed last night. I also didn't really see the case on nydus (but was behind so I didn't know if I missed something major). Before that I had been wrong about everyone, so it seems my new method of thinking is more accurate.
What. So your new method of thinking is accurate because kotc flipped town and your new thiking put him as town? Why? So who are your townreads and scumreads now?
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On June 27 2014 23:09 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2014 10:56 GlowingBear wrote:On June 26 2014 10:44 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 10:09 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 09:33 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 26 2014 09:18 The_Templar wrote:K, wrote a case in about 7 minutes on jabberzerg. Looking at his very thin filter, I now have a very scummy read on him. On June 23 2014 04:01 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Hey guys, I'm out for most of the day, but I'll try to keep up on my phone, and I'll be home for the last three hours or so to read through all the filters and make my final vote.
I just want to make a quick vote now in case something happens I won't get modkilled.
##Vote: meatpudding This isn't particularly scummy. Not all of us have hours upon hours to post in this thread and he could have been later, and votes aren't permanent. I think his vote on meatpudding was a bit questionable since he seems to have had a town read on him but he was probably following the general trend of the town (I think there were 4 votes at that point, but it could be 3) due to lack of time. That could be a newbie fear of wanting to not look suspicious after being gone for ~6 hours and following town. But, is he really going to play an entire game of mafia without having any time? Please. In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately: On June 23 2014 10:53 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 10:48 meatpudding wrote:
Back. I'e reading the thread now. If you're voting Mystery or me, then I don't really have a choice anyway. But I'll flesh out my reads anyway. I'm very interested in what you have to say, I'm undecided about which meat to vote for, and you posting at all is a good sign And then when I make a point about MM not posting, he jumps on it and says he's suspecting him more. On June 23 2014 11:10 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 10:57 The_Templar wrote:
Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town... Wow interesting. I'd really love to hear a lot from both the meats, but right now the strongest case is MM And then: On June 23 2014 11:58 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 11:56 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
im not going to share my thought process on one person. deal with it... You might not like how I'm gonna deal with it ##Vote: MysteryMeat1 HAHA so cliche Day 2: On June 25 2014 12:41 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I am not a girl Really? The day is half over and you feel the need to make that your first post of the day? He continues to be as neutral as possible until he can latch onto an opinion. On June 25 2014 13:00 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I think Nydus's GB vote is interesting.
For me it just boils down to whether or not we believe his pressure explanation.
I'm not sure I do, but maybe some video mafia players can explain if that sort of play is common over there. "I don't know, but someone who does stuff that I've never done will figure it out for me". On June 25 2014 13:48 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 25 2014 13:37 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:
Teemursu, could you lay out your case against meatpudding in full without quoting posts where you've already explained why you're voting for him? As far as i can tell your case against him is mostly based around you not liking his OMGUS of you (although the point you raised about him townreading me and scumreading Haru for basically doing the same thing is interesting) and i really need to hear the case put forward in a different way so i can better understand it. I'd love to see this as well On June 26 2014 08:30 jabberwockzerg wrote:I'm liking this Nydus vote. His random pressure vote just seems a little off to me Not that pressure votes are scummy, but it's better to be clear with the town that that is what your doing, and On June 25 2014 11:28 NydusHerMain wrote:
##Vote: GlowingBear
towny feel isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia "isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia" Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point. On June 26 2014 09:09 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 26 2014 09:06 Epishade wrote:@Cats, My recent interactions with him, and his replies to me where he dismisses everything I say as wifom is one thing. I replied back here. On June 26 2014 06:48 Epishade wrote:On June 26 2014 06:23 Teemursu wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
All of this is irrelevant non-content WIFOM.
Are you serious? You actually think all of the townreading that Nydus has been doing to me is irrelevant and wifom? Why even bother thinking about anything in this game then, since surely if thinking about how logical plays work and how you would expect others to act is wifom, then everything else is then, right? We should just not even bother trying to read people, since everything everyone says and does is wifom, right? On June 26 2014 06:23 Teemursu wrote:
I am not accusing both of you as mafia in association nor have my suspicions been conditional on either one of your alignments.
On June 25 2014 20:08 Teemursu wrote:I actually rescind about making a case on MeatPudding. I feel like I've gone against him the strongest, and I've had multiple posts where I've discussed with him/haven't voted on him. If people aren't convinced by my push on him, then I'm going to divert my attention to someone else. We obviously haven't hit on mafia yet and there still are others alive who town would rather lynch. I think Nydus actually might be mafia. His read on Epishade is very weak. I asked him to provide examples on Epishade and give reasoning on those examples (yes, in plural). So far the reason Nydus has called him top town is that he's been "objective" and that Epishade posts a wishy washy list of conditional scum/flip logic that doesn't really mean anything. Only because people have pushed on someone, and that person flips as either alignment, doesn't clear or put people who actively pushed that person under suspicion. I just played a video mafia game where a VT pushed a ML on Day 1 and I caught two of the three mafia by looking at how they supported the person who was the most active pusher. Nydus should be a way better player and recognise to that Epishade's contribution today does in fact NOT put him as "top town" for his "objectiveness". This takes me to a second possible mafia, Epishade.[quote] [quote] Firstly, he wants to vote between two people who have gone the hardest against each other (ignoring MM1 vs. Tolkien and Cats). He says he doesn't have a clear preference, then he says he wants to vote on me. He seems to understand I post a lot, he doesn't refer to anything specific that I've posted about. I took this to mean you were connecting me as potential mafia scum with Nydus, as you said this takes me, referring to your previous argument about Nydus and his views about me. I thought you were drawing a connection between us two as scum by doing that, which is why I assumed you thought we both were scum. Teemursu was on Token's scumlist, which is my personal opinion as a contributing factor to why Token died. I think Teemursu's being incredibly nitpicky against meatpudding too, trying to scumread him for trivial details in meatpudding's posts. That to me is a little scummy. On June 23 2014 22:02 Teemursu wrote:On June 23 2014 21:56 meatpudding wrote:
I was going through KotC's posts when the lynch was taking place. I kind of couldn't make up my mind, even after MM flipped.
I was not happy to vote for MM, because the case against him didn't convince me completely. His own reactions caused a lot of suspicion. though.I can't call Cats or Tolkien scum based on that alone.
Right now my thoughts are
Teemu - potential scum
Tolkien - potential scum
Cats - fence
Templar - town
Odd. It feels like you're hiding something and not wanting to make up your mind about someone.
You say you can't call Tolkien scum based on that, but you agree with me on Tolkien being scum, and you put him into your potential scum list? Just what is this supposed to mean, anyways? You think him not finding something alignment indicative (him saying he can't find Cats or Token scum based on something) means he's hiding something? It's not just against meatpudding though. Here Teemursu agrees with Poof that because I didn't have hard reads on people and labeled them as "townlean" instead of town that that somehow makes me scummy... On June 25 2014 07:28 Teemursu wrote:On June 25 2014 07:21 Tehpoofter wrote:
[quote]
"Scum lean" "Town lean" sounds so passive. If someone wants some homework go look at this guys previous newbie game he was town in. I feel like if you're going to call someone mafia you should say scum. The whole "lean" thing sounds like you don't want to make enemies or leaving your options open.
(Just to clarify I didn't read your spoilers yet as I'm not caught up so the content might change how I feel but first impression gets a big scummy MEH) This is one of the reasons why I have been reading him as "trying hard to sound towny". IMHO, He's continued the same kind of way of talking by switching on the MM1 bandwagon by calling MeatPudding a misguided townie, while MeatPudding has in my opinion had even more bad & inconsistent logic. It's Teemursu's incredible nitpickyness that I find to be a trait of scum. I will say that my early read on Teemursu was based on some of his word choice, too though. So call me a hypocrite if you must or feel free to point out the contradiction. That's just how I feel. Ok, you know what. I'm just sick of writing so much and reading through filters. I have no idea how accurate my reads are and it sucks to know that all this could very likely end up untrue, which I'm sure it might be. Fuck it, I'm voting for JabberZerg. I can't tell who to vote for anymore and she's been flying under the radar for too long now. ##Vote: JabberZergBuahahahahaha!!!! sdea fgsdafn jd still not a girl Is that really important? How about you focus on the issue? ##Unvote
##Vote: jabberwockzergOut of time but after this next WCS series I'll write something up on Epishade, who's acting sort of strangely, and Nydus, who is… improving a bit maybe? Not sure… I've been noncommittal and shitty and lurky Can't seem to focus on this game as much as I should be. wouldn't fault anyone for voting me BUT there is so little information to be gained from my flip that it will be more useful to leave me kicking around for at least another day and see what happens from there I'll try harder, stop daydrinking, etc. If you're scum i don't care how little information we get from lynching you. Convince us not to vote for you now, don't just say "Yeah guys i'll start doing stuff after flip...promise" You can start by posting what info, according to you, we would get from your flip and then you can answer this: On June 26 2014 09:01 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 08:55 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 26 2014 08:49 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 22 2014 16:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
yeah, pudding's a townlean
I'd be most comfortable with a tolkien vote, but I want him to read my post about scott and react to it, defend his wagon.
I'll agree with a fence on KittyCats, he's asking questions, but I'm noticing a lack of content. On June 23 2014 10:53 jabberwockzerg wrote:On June 23 2014 10:48 meatpudding wrote:
Back. I'e reading the thread now. If you're voting Mystery or me, then I don't really have a choice anyway. But I'll flesh out my reads anyway. I'm very interested in what you have to say, I'm undecided about which meat to vote for, and you posting at all is a good sign Why was pudding a townlean for you at the time and what led you to change your mind and think that he might be a good lynch at the end of the day? It was his silence after coming under heavy suspicion So him possibly being away from his computer and not being able to respond to the things being said against him immediately was what led you to disregard your townread of him and seriously consider his lynch? Was there anything else he did at the time that struck you as scummy? Also: On June 26 2014 08:43 TheKingOfTheCats wrote:On June 26 2014 08:30 jabberwockzerg wrote:I'm liking this Nydus vote. His random pressure vote just seems a little off to me Not that pressure votes are scummy, but it's better to be clear with the town that that is what your doing, and On June 25 2014 11:28 NydusHerMain wrote:
##Vote: GlowingBear
towny feel isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia "isn't good enough for me, clearly mafia" I want you to give a more detailed reason than that to jump on the Nydus wagon. Saying what he's doing isn't necessarily scummy but voting for him because it seemed "off" isn't good enough. Jabber your silence after coming under heavy suspicion is incredibly scummy, in fact i think it's enough to sway my vote. ##Vote: Jabberwockzerg Phew. Too much confusion. Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now. ##Unvote
##Vote: Jabberwockzerg Also, I don't see why you scumread Templar when you did the exact same thing. You did not change wagons even after you saw the arguments for a nydus lynch and a epi lynch. Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
Nope. Was kotc contradictory? Was nydus contradictory? (If yes, in what sense?) The only contradictory lynch that could have happened d2 was epi's lynch. but it did not follow through. So you can identify that mafia was the people who started and led the mislynches. Give me a list of people who started the mislynches.
I've said they don't compromise themselves, they follow the mislynches. I'm not saying that mafia is starting those mislynches, I'm saying the mafia is identifying these mislynches and are following them.
I'll expand what I wrote at the end of N1 as soon as I get to my pc so I can clarify it better
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On June 27 2014 23:29 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches. Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:09 HaruRH wrote:
Nope. Was kotc contradictory? Was nydus contradictory? (If yes, in what sense?) The only contradictory lynch that could have happened d2 was epi's lynch. but it did not follow through.
Why are you trying to persuade me that ML is due to contradictions in posts? Are you opening some sort of way for scum to post contradictions and not get called out for bad logic? 1 bad lynch only, MM, which at most clears meatpudding since both of them makes bucketloads of contradictions.
You are focusing the wrong part of my post, intentionally or not. I've said that contradictions are secondary. We first have to find people who are just trying too hard to not compromise themselves so they won't be a lynch focus by town. That is the objective of mafia at day time after all, isn't it?
I'm not admitting that contradictions aren't scummy. I'm admitting that contradictions are not the best signals to better identify a mafia.
Nydus was contradictory, I had a contradictory idea on kotc. Again, once I get to my pc, I'll Filter dive them and give you a better answer
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On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches.
I did a quick filterdive of both of you and indeed, I can draw parallel on how you two voted and pushed. That is probably how you 2 got on the jabber wagon on d2 too.
Your push on meatpudding: 'Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him.'
Templar's push on scott:' Yeah, I feel much better about voting scott than Cats, as Cats will probably contribute (although I have no idea how much, I thought he wasn't going to much today).'
Templar's reasons for changing off scott: 'Please unvote yourself and keep your head in the game. Also, I'd rather not waste a lynch when you can just ask to be replaced.'
Subsequent push on meatpudding: 'Seems to be making stuff up/being inconsistent. Throwing out random accusations doesn't make you a scum hunter.'
Templar's push on MM(pressure vote): 'Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town...'
goes back to meatpudding: 'You didn't react, now you have, and since your read makes sense now, I'm switching back to the other meat.'
goes back to MM: 'Yeah, MM1 is making less and less sense as this goes on. And meatpudding has shown a willingness to post what he thinks later (although why is he avoiding the god damned issue of him vs MM, I have no idea).'
what he did was quite logical. Both MM and meatpudding were obvious targets in d1 since they were incoherent and made no sense, which everyone pointed out. In fact, Templar is more town than you here because he actually bothered to pressure MM for reads so that he could compare which meat to lynch. While you stuck onto meatpudding simply because your scumread on him is stronger than your scumread on kotc.
D2:
glowingbear's push on me(pressure vote): 'You've been too quiet, and I need you to reply this post of mine'
glowingbear's vote on jabber: 'Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now.'
Templar's push on jabber: 'In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately' 'Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point.'
Both of you came to the same conclusion that jabber isn't trying to respond to anything at the time of the lynch.
Both of you are really similar in your voting and reads. Whatever you have said about Templar can seriously be applied on you too.
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On June 27 2014 12:56 Hobbitus wrote:
Summary post:
Reads (and stuff I'm thinking about atm)
HaruRH-scum (says tolkien was shot bc on to mafia-obvious answer)
Thekingofthecats-town (gets caught up in the details)
GlowingBear-town (adorable but in that clueless animal way) (could be wrong, suspicious about blue role posts/not changing his vote last night)
Meatpudding-town (suspect both wagons D1 were town, never had convincing case against)
Epishade-scum (see post)
mtamburini-town (too annoying to be scum)
The_Templar-scum (see post) (also, really conscious of how posts sound when they don't even sound scummy/clarifying when he doesn't need to etc/not changing his vote last night)
Teemu-town (for actions during D2 EOD, consolidation of votes etc)
What I think we should focus on D3:
-why was Tolkien shot? (My guess is that it had something to do with mp, and that it was probably mafia who killed him)
-take a look at the whole bear calling haru blue and then haru being roleblocked thing, mafia shouldn't roleblock based on the opinion of one townie.
-possibility: if bear, templar and epi are scum, it could explain why templar/bear never changed their vote last night. didn't want epi to get lynched and yet knew the case on nydus was really stupid
Not sure about you, but everyone else is the same as last night.
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Look here. Even if your wagon on Templar was right, epishade was allowed to basically afk past n2 and post a useless post.
On June 26 2014 14:43 Epishade wrote:
I'm all for lynching mtamburini after that vote.
I don't know about you, but for me, who still scumreads epishade, I don't think we should neglect him. I want epishade to start talking right away.
##Vote: Epishade
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On June 27 2014 23:46 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches. I did a quick filterdive of both of you and indeed, I can draw parallel on how you two voted and pushed. That is probably how you 2 got on the jabber wagon on d2 too. Your push on meatpudding: 'Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him.' Templar's push on scott:' Yeah, I feel much better about voting scott than Cats, as Cats will probably contribute (although I have no idea how much, I thought he wasn't going to much today).' Templar's reasons for changing off scott: 'Please unvote yourself and keep your head in the game. Also, I'd rather not waste a lynch when you can just ask to be replaced.' Subsequent push on meatpudding: 'Seems to be making stuff up/being inconsistent. Throwing out random accusations doesn't make you a scum hunter.' Templar's push on MM(pressure vote): 'Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town...' goes back to meatpudding: 'You didn't react, now you have, and since your read makes sense now, I'm switching back to the other meat.' goes back to MM: 'Yeah, MM1 is making less and less sense as this goes on. And meatpudding has shown a willingness to post what he thinks later (although why is he avoiding the god damned issue of him vs MM, I have no idea).' what he did was quite logical. Both MM and meatpudding were obvious targets in d1 since they were incoherent and made no sense, which everyone pointed out. In fact, Templar is more town than you here because he actually bothered to pressure MM for reads so that he could compare which meat to lynch. While you stuck onto meatpudding simply because your scumread on him is stronger than your scumread on kotc. D2: glowingbear's push on me(pressure vote): 'You've been too quiet, and I need you to reply this post of mine' glowingbear's vote on jabber: 'Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now.' Templar's push on jabber: 'In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately' 'Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point.' Both of you came to the same conclusion that jabber isn't trying to respond to anything at the time of the lynch. Both of you are really similar in your voting and reads. Whatever you have said about Templar can seriously be applied on you too.
Yes our reads were/are very similar. But notice how jabber didn't get (mis)lynched. Everyone that's been mislynched has happened with pretty much everyone assuming you and Templar are town lol.
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I've made my reasonings throughout my posts, I've got only the conclusions on the posts I wrote.
Anyway, even if my posts are looking like Templar's, I still believe this is a better method of catching scum than just looking after contradictions solely.
I'm going home and make a extended post about what I'm talking about, with quotes. It will take several hours...
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On June 27 2014 23:54 Hobbitus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:46 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches. I did a quick filterdive of both of you and indeed, I can draw parallel on how you two voted and pushed. That is probably how you 2 got on the jabber wagon on d2 too. Your push on meatpudding: 'Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him.' Templar's push on scott:' Yeah, I feel much better about voting scott than Cats, as Cats will probably contribute (although I have no idea how much, I thought he wasn't going to much today).' Templar's reasons for changing off scott: 'Please unvote yourself and keep your head in the game. Also, I'd rather not waste a lynch when you can just ask to be replaced.' Subsequent push on meatpudding: 'Seems to be making stuff up/being inconsistent. Throwing out random accusations doesn't make you a scum hunter.' Templar's push on MM(pressure vote): 'Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town...' goes back to meatpudding: 'You didn't react, now you have, and since your read makes sense now, I'm switching back to the other meat.' goes back to MM: 'Yeah, MM1 is making less and less sense as this goes on. And meatpudding has shown a willingness to post what he thinks later (although why is he avoiding the god damned issue of him vs MM, I have no idea).' what he did was quite logical. Both MM and meatpudding were obvious targets in d1 since they were incoherent and made no sense, which everyone pointed out. In fact, Templar is more town than you here because he actually bothered to pressure MM for reads so that he could compare which meat to lynch. While you stuck onto meatpudding simply because your scumread on him is stronger than your scumread on kotc. D2: glowingbear's push on me(pressure vote): 'You've been too quiet, and I need you to reply this post of mine' glowingbear's vote on jabber: 'Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now.' Templar's push on jabber: 'In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately' 'Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point.' Both of you came to the same conclusion that jabber isn't trying to respond to anything at the time of the lynch. Both of you are really similar in your voting and reads. Whatever you have said about Templar can seriously be applied on you too. Yes our reads were/are very similar. But notice how jabber didn't get (mis)lynched. Everyone that's been mislynched has happened with pretty much everyone assuming you and Templar are town lol.
So d1, did my meatpudding lynch become a mislynch? no, because everyone went to MM's wagon.
D2, did my epishade lynch become a mislynch? no, because everyone went crazy and voted weirdly.
Nobody mislynched because of either mine or Templar's opinions. Even if both of us were read as scum, nobody would still lynch because of our opinions because it did not happen. What are you trying to do now?
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EBWOP: I've got only the conclusions on the posts I vote.
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On June 27 2014 23:56 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:54 Hobbitus wrote:On June 27 2014 23:46 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches. I did a quick filterdive of both of you and indeed, I can draw parallel on how you two voted and pushed. That is probably how you 2 got on the jabber wagon on d2 too. Your push on meatpudding: 'Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him.' Templar's push on scott:' Yeah, I feel much better about voting scott than Cats, as Cats will probably contribute (although I have no idea how much, I thought he wasn't going to much today).' Templar's reasons for changing off scott: 'Please unvote yourself and keep your head in the game. Also, I'd rather not waste a lynch when you can just ask to be replaced.' Subsequent push on meatpudding: 'Seems to be making stuff up/being inconsistent. Throwing out random accusations doesn't make you a scum hunter.' Templar's push on MM(pressure vote): 'Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town...' goes back to meatpudding: 'You didn't react, now you have, and since your read makes sense now, I'm switching back to the other meat.' goes back to MM: 'Yeah, MM1 is making less and less sense as this goes on. And meatpudding has shown a willingness to post what he thinks later (although why is he avoiding the god damned issue of him vs MM, I have no idea).' what he did was quite logical. Both MM and meatpudding were obvious targets in d1 since they were incoherent and made no sense, which everyone pointed out. In fact, Templar is more town than you here because he actually bothered to pressure MM for reads so that he could compare which meat to lynch. While you stuck onto meatpudding simply because your scumread on him is stronger than your scumread on kotc. D2: glowingbear's push on me(pressure vote): 'You've been too quiet, and I need you to reply this post of mine' glowingbear's vote on jabber: 'Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now.' Templar's push on jabber: 'In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately' 'Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point.' Both of you came to the same conclusion that jabber isn't trying to respond to anything at the time of the lynch. Both of you are really similar in your voting and reads. Whatever you have said about Templar can seriously be applied on you too. Yes our reads were/are very similar. But notice how jabber didn't get (mis)lynched. Everyone that's been mislynched has happened with pretty much everyone assuming you and Templar are town lol. So d1, did my meatpudding lynch become a mislynch? no, because everyone went to MM's wagon. D2, did my epishade lynch become a mislynch? no, because everyone went crazy and voted weirdly. Nobody mislynched because of either mine or Templar's opinions. Even if both of us were read as scum, nobody would still lynch because of our opinions because it did not happen. What are you trying to do now?
Lol, because the MM/mp argument wasn't exactly the same and couldn't have gone either way.
...You didn't vote for epishade?
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Questions for everyone:
1) What do you think of this glowingbear-hobbitus interaction going on?
2) What are your updated reads?
I'll answer my own question. I find glowingbear-hobbitus's interaction weird. It almost feels like a scum buddied up with a town and is attempting to misdirect town into lynching all their own top towns. This is what I think.
My updated reads:
poofter
teemu
templar
glowingbear
hobbitus
mtam
meatpudding
epishade
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On June 28 2014 00:01 Hobbitus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2014 23:56 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 23:54 Hobbitus wrote:On June 27 2014 23:46 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 23:26 GlowingBear wrote:On June 27 2014 23:00 HaruRH wrote:On June 27 2014 12:59 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm having a feeling that I'm dying this night. So, I would like to share thoughts in case I don't live.
I've being filter diving a lot this night and was waiting for the night results. While filter diving, an idea crossed my mind.
We've been discussing how contradictory some players were looking and we were judging their alignment solely on that.
What happened?
4 townies died. Of course, 1 modkill and 1 nightkill. But still, ALL OF THEM were contradictory.
Which means that being contradictory isn't necessary a scum signal. It may help identify one, but it's secondary.
If we've lost so many by attacking their contradictory posts, what do we have here? A very consistent Mafia, that is. A Mafia who is well connected and using the information they have to lead the mislynches.
To find the Mafia in this game we must not search for people being inconsistent in their posts. We have to search for people that are not compromising themselves in their votes, in their analysis. People that are not raising flags but following town misreads so they will win a mislynch. They contribute for the mislynch but they do not compromise themselves by doing so.
There are some who are doing this. In order of my suspicions, The_Templar, Epishade, Hobbitus, Teemu, Haru. (Have in my this takes off my scumread on meatpudding).
I think The_Templar is the one shines the most here, IMO. If you filter dive through his filters, he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads. It started with meatpudding, then he found a better vote on MysteryMeat1. Next, he went to jabber when he completely acted contradictory (easy vote, everybody was voting on contradictory people).
If you are not sure what I am talking about, dive through his filters. You will see his passivity (is this a word?) then his easy votes.
Have in mind that this interpretation implies that Mafia really did split their votes on Day2 so Nydus would be an easy kill.
One last thing: dive through scott's short filter and compare to mtamburini's. I haven't done this but I think this is important, it might give some clues on his alignment.
I hope this help townies on D3!
I probably had more to say but it's getting close to the deadline and I don't think I have more time to "evolve" my logic.
PS: I've asked a list on top scum and top town so it might give me an insight on who are the Mason Couple, but I have failed to do so =/
PS: I'm not sure if this is obvious or not, but this is my first Mafia game ever, so this insight came to me...
PS3: FORGOT TO CHECK KOTC FILTERS PLEASE DO SO.
I lost you there. So mafias are consistent? Towns are inconsistent? You're flipping all the knowledge I ever had of mafia. Also, passivity is not a good case for scum. much like I can call you out for being inconsistent with your reads. 'he is not starting pushes to force town agenda. He is actually following these misleads'. you're doing the same till d3. So can I lynch you based on that? Mafia does not want do draw attention. They will try to look productive but actually they are just trying to not be compromised. What I'm trying to say in the bolded part is that townies are so lost in this game here that they start being inconsistent in their reads. Townies are looking at a poor reasoning and assuming that it's a mafia thing, which may be, but it's secondary. It came to me that it is not the best way to catch mafia, as we can see by the results. The key to catch mafia is understanding their behaviour on not wanting to get lynch more than trying to find scum. And I found this pattern while interpreting Templar's post. That night post my have came poorly worded because I wrote it on rush in case I was the victim. And I don't believe I've being doing the same. I've being reasoning my votes ever since the beginning, not simply following. Filter dive me and compare it to templar's. If you still believe that I'm behaving just as templar's, then stick your vote on whichever you find most likely. Just have in mind that looking for contradictions on people's posts led us to 2 mislynches. I did a quick filterdive of both of you and indeed, I can draw parallel on how you two voted and pushed. That is probably how you 2 got on the jabber wagon on d2 too. Your push on meatpudding: 'Having said all of these, although I still have a feeling that TheKingOfCats might be scum, I'll vore for meatpudding as I've got now a stronger read on him.' Templar's push on scott:' Yeah, I feel much better about voting scott than Cats, as Cats will probably contribute (although I have no idea how much, I thought he wasn't going to much today).' Templar's reasons for changing off scott: 'Please unvote yourself and keep your head in the game. Also, I'd rather not waste a lynch when you can just ask to be replaced.' Subsequent push on meatpudding: 'Seems to be making stuff up/being inconsistent. Throwing out random accusations doesn't make you a scum hunter.' Templar's push on MM(pressure vote): 'Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town...' goes back to meatpudding: 'You didn't react, now you have, and since your read makes sense now, I'm switching back to the other meat.' goes back to MM: 'Yeah, MM1 is making less and less sense as this goes on. And meatpudding has shown a willingness to post what he thinks later (although why is he avoiding the god damned issue of him vs MM, I have no idea).' what he did was quite logical. Both MM and meatpudding were obvious targets in d1 since they were incoherent and made no sense, which everyone pointed out. In fact, Templar is more town than you here because he actually bothered to pressure MM for reads so that he could compare which meat to lynch. While you stuck onto meatpudding simply because your scumread on him is stronger than your scumread on kotc. D2: glowingbear's push on me(pressure vote): 'You've been too quiet, and I need you to reply this post of mine' glowingbear's vote on jabber: 'Now that I believe we could be in a town VS town scenario, and after jabb tried to "hide" on my argument that flips are really important... I'm definitive now.' Templar's push on jabber: 'In the battle of the meats, he takes a neutral stance immediately' 'Basically he's just agreeing with people without offering an opinion at this point.' Both of you came to the same conclusion that jabber isn't trying to respond to anything at the time of the lynch. Both of you are really similar in your voting and reads. Whatever you have said about Templar can seriously be applied on you too. Yes our reads were/are very similar. But notice how jabber didn't get (mis)lynched. Everyone that's been mislynched has happened with pretty much everyone assuming you and Templar are town lol. So d1, did my meatpudding lynch become a mislynch? no, because everyone went to MM's wagon. D2, did my epishade lynch become a mislynch? no, because everyone went crazy and voted weirdly. Nobody mislynched because of either mine or Templar's opinions. Even if both of us were read as scum, nobody would still lynch because of our opinions because it did not happen. What are you trying to do now? Lol, because the MM/mp argument wasn't exactly the same and couldn't have gone either way. ...You didn't vote for epishade?
I did. I changed in the end because mtam was pissing me off.
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EPT
