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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:49 Ghanburighan wrote: Judiator, stop spamming the thread with nonsense. Contribute something topical or don't post at all. I've been among the most topical contributors to this thread. Please don't be rude because I post one silly thing to ease tensions brewing on this page. Hell, the guy I replied to is making up conspiracy theories heh. Why not yell at him please. lol | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:49 Ghanburighan wrote: Judiator, stop spamming the thread with nonsense. Contribute something topical or don't post at all. yea cuz Sub40APM posting like 50 links to random websites with literally no comment of his own on any of it isn't spamming or nonsense at all.  | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:50 Dlash23 wrote: Do you know the history of that region?(it was part of Turkey, than of Russia) What nations are living in Crimea?(russians, crimean tatars) Of course - no. That's why I don't see the reason to argue with you. Then why are you here? If we don't understand the reason why Russia has a right to invade Crimea, please educate us. Make us understand why such a great leader as Putin thinks he can do stuff just because he thinks they are right? | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:32 Ghanburighan wrote: Well, no country occupied Kyiv, did they? It doesn't matter whether anyone has died or not, there's a foreign military violating one of the most important (and thus most heavily coded into international law) principles: territorial integrity. It's called aggression because territorial integrity was violated without a just cause. Furthermore, it's called an occupation because Russian troops took control of the region and refuse to leave. In fact, with regard to the procedures to be followed in this case, the transitional Ukrainian govt. is acting in an exemplary fashion, as they are not responding to this violation, threats, ultimatums, etc. with violence but are waiting for international observers and the diplomatic process to solve the issue. So, they are generally the ones to receive the praise for the lack of casualties in Crimea. that's bullshit. nobody cried to sanction the US after they "occupied" iraq or as they keep violating territorial integrity with killing of bin laden or drones in pakistan, yet everyone cries when they see russians on a peninsula with a fucking russian military base. same with libya and france/UK. territorial integrity is the LEAST of their concerns. the current "government" in the ukraine doesn't deserve ANY praise. the talks about joining the NATO (and EU) by a totally NOT legitimate government are more then nonsense. maybe let the UKRAINIAN people VOTE before making such harsh decisions that decide the future of the entire country. it's not only the russians that interfere in the ukraine. it's the entire fucking west as well. and the US has absolutely ZERO business there. this is a topic between EU, RUSSIA and firstmost the actual ukrainian people which were never asked to date and are only represented by vocal minoritys on the maidan (now government) and a separatist movement in crimea. an actual vote in the ukraine about whether they should be allying with NATO/EU or russia would be pretty much usefull to see if there is ANY possible concensus from the population. though i doubt it will be a deciding vote for one or the other. but the media on both sides is just disgusting and there are really no sources that can be trusted any more. everything is propaganga and that's just fucking sad. especially with the "moral high ground" the west keeps on using while doing the same things they blame russia for. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:16 likeasu wrote: May I ask one question? About 100 opposition people were killed during chaos in Kiev. About 30 military people were killed during chaos in Kiev. WHY almost all of you blame Russia for "AGGRESSIVE OCCUPATION of Crimie" if there NO one who was shooted there for these days??? 130 dead VS 0 dead. "Aggressive" in this case means instigator. "Who started it?" is a question you have to ask for determining that. The situation in Kiev is nothing I want to defend. It was violent and the endgame was a disgrace to representative democracy. (Not going into the controversy of "who started it?" even though that has to be an important part of your argument.) Moving on, you have to accept that it has happened. Not recognising the rest of the democratically elected representatives in the Rada and instead recognising an exile is not feasible over time! Now, the situation on Crimea seems to have started with armed men taking over the parliament and a new prime minister of Crimea being elected in the presence of these armed men. The newly elected prime minister asked for russian help. Now you have to ask yourself if these acts are legal and it is more than questionable legally! Going from there, we are back to instigation. Since the troops in russian uniforms are the ones actively changing geographic position and carrying guns, it seems pretty obvious that they are instigators of "what-ever-name-you-use-for-what-they-do". Now where does the anti-russian wording come from? The answer: Russian media. By purporting a very biased and editorially problematic coverage in the russian media followed by a lot of people in Crimea, the western media reacts by reflecting on the very fact-poor "we are getting attacked by nazis and fascists!". With those two words, we are back to the classic world war 2 playbook of indoctrinating "us versus them"! Rubbing in the fact that Putin lies in western media, not in russian, is just furthering the coverage bias since it opens up for "What else does he lie about?"-territory. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:52 MasterOfPuppets wrote: yea cuz Sub40APM posting like 50 links to random websites with literally no comment of his own on any of it isn't spamming or nonsense at all. Sub40APM has posted several bits of new and interesting topical news pieces, that's exactly the type of content This thread needs. If I have issues with any of those 50 links being off topic or nonsense, I will say so. As for conspiracy theories, they ought to be ignored or engaged with using actual factual content. Otherwise the thread gets littered with 'I have the biggest e-dick' posts. | ||
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Liman
Serbia681 Posts
Crimean government voted to join Russia,so the question on referendum will be "Do you want Crimea to join Russian federation?" Source | ||
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likeasu
Russian Federation88 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Maybe because Russia is the epitome of evil, making Satan extravagantly jealous, and USA is the holiest of holies, blessed by Christ Jesus and incapable of doing anything remotely similar or infinitely worse than what Russia is doing right now. /SARCASM But seriously, our media is as full of shit and self-righteousness as yours, if not more. Yes, Russia is aggressor in the sense that they sent military forces into a foreign country uninvited. First of all there is a contract between Russia and Ukraine about Russian military troops and fleet bases in Crimea. By this contract Russia has right to have on these bases 25.000 troopers. We pay money to Ukraine for this. USA have a lot of bases of all the world too. At the second Russia have agreement of legitimate Ukrainian president Yanukovich for enter troopers. I have to explain for people who dont know Ukrainian laws and Constitution, that Yanukovich is still legitimate president still. YES! De jure Yanukovich is still president of Ukraine. He has no more any power there BUT de jure is still president of Ukraine!!!! Its very important. And thats why: there 4 ways to remove President by Ukrainian Constitution: (use google to check up Ukrainian constitution if you dont belive me) 1. Death of president. (Yanukovich is not dead) 2. Deep healths problems. (Yanukovich is not deep ill) 3. Removing by presidents own decision (there no his own removing) 4. Impeachment. February 22 The Parlament of Ukraine (Rada) has really voted for removing the President Yanukovich. But by Ukrainian Constitution it is NOT ENOUGH. Rada should make special commission for prosecution of President. And after that Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court of Ukraine should render judgment. It was not made! Instead of this The Parlament (Rada) just dissolved Constitutional Court. I know people of USA believe in the letter of the law. How about that?? | ||
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Dlash23
Russian Federation38 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:57 -Archangel- wrote: Then why are you here? If we don't understand the reason why Russia has a right to invade Crimea, please educate us. Make us understand why such a great leader as Putin thinks he can do stuff just because he thinks they are right? Who said you that Russia invade Crimea? And you need to consider if same thing took place for example in Croatia, noone would to invade or occupy it. Russia protect their interests in that region where population is Russians: 58.32%, see wiki and what happens in Kiev it is really awful just see the yesterday's session of Rada guys that have sticks just came in and talked what is need to do =) PS oh yeah and they are nazi | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4058 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:49 Ghanburighan wrote: Judiator, stop spamming the thread with nonsense. Contribute something topical or don't post at all. I must have missed, but it seems you are the boss of the thread? | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:09 Ghanburighan wrote: Sub40APM has posted several bits of new and interesting topical news pieces, that's exactly the type of content This thread needs. If I have issues with any of those 50 links being off topic or nonsense, I will say so. As for conspiracy theories, they ought to be ignored or engaged with using actual factual content. Otherwise the thread gets littered with 'I have the biggest e-dick' posts. sub40apms coverage of "news" in this thread is pretty much onesided and more then biased. also @likeasu: judicator hammurabi is pretty sarcastic in here. don't take everything he says serious | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:20 likeasu wrote: Are events in Kiev absolutely clear for other countries? > 130 killed and more then 1000 hurted! And Russia is agressor??? WTF with you&!&! You are a mindless nationalist,by your retarded logic, I could come to your house, point a gun at your family and make your house mine, you would support me if there was some kind of conflict inside your family? Russia invades Crimea and point guns at ukrainian soldiers because there was a nazi NATO supported coup d'etat, this is just a reason for Russia to invade and take from others. And yes even if nobody was hurt it's still an invasion and I'm going to tell you something else: the horror of nazism, soviet communism, every kind of facism and dictatures doesn't come from the huge power of the state but from the capacity of the leaders to hide the problems of one's country and to justify its actions with nationalism. These nationalisms give simple and supposely moral views to appeal to the ignorant masses and give them a grand objective, to the point that one's country horrible actions can get justified with stupid arguments by normal people like you. China, North Korea, modern Russia, the US, and other countries use nationalism and try to maintain it because they cannot justify their actions normaly. And that's depressing considering they are the most powerful countries in the world. edit: Russia invaded Crimea, a former corrupt president can't decide if his own country can be occupied but again it all comes down to morals and not in any way to constitution or law because the laws and constitution weren't prepared for this type of situation. Now you can be the advocate of the devil if you want and no I'm not defending the nazis you talk about but the sovereinity of ukrainians. Also as you seems to have a problem with the word invasion: an invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of the armed forces of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution. | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:09 Ghanburighan wrote: Sub40APM has posted several bits of new and interesting topical news pieces, that's exactly the type of content This thread needs. If I have issues with any of those 50 links being off topic or nonsense, I will say so. As for conspiracy theories, they ought to be ignored or engaged with using actual factual content. Otherwise the thread gets littered with 'I have the biggest e-dick' posts. Clearly biased articles posted with a vested interest and often accompanied by a snarky passive-aggressive comment is now considered "news"? Ok bro. Btw, I'm glad you'll tell us if you have issues with any of his posts (which you clearly don't since you're of the same opinion in this argument, obviously), speaking of "I have the biggest e-dick" posts. I didn't know they made you staff, but maybe they're still working hard on the amazing article befitting of such a great poster's promotion? | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4656 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:13 Dlash23 wrote: Who said you that Russia invade Crimea? And you need to consider if same thing took place for example in Croatia, noone would to invade or occupy it. Russia protect their interests in that region where population is Russians: 58.32%, see wiki and what happens in Kiev it is really awful just see the yesterday's session of Rada guys that have sticks just came in and talked what is need to do =) PS oh yeah and they are nazi Oh, but the same thing did happen here and we were invaded with the same story that Russia is using. I am in a unique position to understand how exactly this feels for Ukranians, except Russians are not yet bombing their cities. Even if Russians are 58% (and those people don't just consider themselves Russian speaking Ukranians) it gives no rights for Russian military to invade. And since when is every nationalist Nazi? By same logic both Russia and half of USA are Nazi. | ||
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Dlash23
Russian Federation38 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:28 -Archangel- wrote: Oh, but the same thing did happen here and we were invaded with the same story that Russia is using. I am in a unique position to understand how exactly this feels for Ukranians, except Russians are not yet bombing their cities. Even if Russians are 58% (and those people don't just consider themselves Russian speaking Ukranians) it gives no rights for Russian military to invade. And since when is every nationalist Nazi? By same logic both Russia and half of USA are Nazi. You say it like Russia bombed you, not USA... and I didn't know that in Croatia in it's population were 58% americans... | ||
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Dlash23
Russian Federation38 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:28 -Archangel- wrote: Even if Russians are 58% (and those people don't just consider themselves Russian speaking Ukranians) it gives no rights for Russian military to invade. And since when is every nationalist Nazi? By same logic both Russia and half of USA are Nazi. Did you read the history of Crimea? it was Russian region until 1954 year, when it was presented to Ukrain And 58% of population are exactly Russians, not Russian speaking Ukranians. | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:41 Dlash23 wrote: Did you read the history of Crimea? it was Russian region until 1954 year, when it was presented to Ukrain And 58% of population are exactly Russians, not Russian speaking Ukranians. That's not the point, Crimea's russians aren't in danger so there is no need for an invasion. | ||
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kukarachaa
United States284 Posts
On March 06 2014 19:57 -Archangel- wrote: Then why are you here? If we don't understand the reason why Russia has a right to invade Crimea, please educate us. Make us understand why such a great leader as Putin thinks he can do stuff just because he thinks they are right? Try to see it from the Russian side. Russia has military bases in Crimea. Ukraine has military bases in Crimea. Revolution happens, ultra nationalistic groups are part of it, and as such gain significant political power ( while its significantly overblown in the Russian media, there is still some truth to that ) The military command headquarters are in Kiev, whoever controls it can communicate and issue orders to the Ukraine military personal around Ukraine. With all the chaos that came with revolution, now you have no idea who has the finger on the " button " so to speak. Now the chances of someone doing something insane like sending an order to in some way attack Russian troops are extremely small, and the likelihood of a Ukraine military following up on that order are even smaller. But don't forget what happened in Georgia. Mikheil Saakashvili was praised by all the western leaders, Georgia is an example to all the CIS countries and so on, on its way to joining NATO. Then the incident South Ossetia happened. Much like now, the western media was all over Russia, calling them the aggressors, fabricating lies, Georgia would have to be insane to provoke Russia and so on. Fast forward now, investigations from both sides agree, Georgia was the aggressor. Saakashvili went from being the west's beacon of light to, crazy dictator who no one wanted to have relations with. Long story short Russia wants to make sure nothing dumb happens in Crimea, until the situation in Ukraine's government stabilizes. That's just the way I see. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 06 2014 20:41 Dlash23 wrote: Did you read the history of Crimea? it was Russian region until 1954 year, when it was presented to Ukrain And 58% of population are exactly Russians, not Russian speaking Ukranians. And your point is? How does this give you the right to invade? If you didn't want to part with it, you should not have given it away in 1954. You do know you sound more like the Nazi from 1939 then whatever Nazi russian propaganda is calling Ukraine nationalists? | ||
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