EPTA Quiet Game of Mini Mafia - Page 68
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Had the scum target been a little calmer or had not said such weird things throughout the game, I don't think we would have stepped off Yamato. It felt to me as if I was dealing with a scum in Corazon after he kept blatantly lying, but I was hesitant to engage him because I don't know his play at all. I looked into his past games and it seemed to confirm the idea but the faked anger kept giving me doubts. So I just ignored him at that point (you can sort of tell where in my posts I stopped poking him/calling him scum) and I think WoS did the exact same thing shortly afterward, which reinforced my opinion. Had Yamato not made a couple of posts that made us question his lynch though I'm sure we would've killed him instead. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
How many people after the lynch thought CC was scum? How many people did we have in the pool to lynch? If one of Artanis/CC died at some point do you think the players who would be left alive would have killed the other, after how they attacked each other? From a per-player standpoint it wasn't anything to cry home about. Aside from about 5 players everyone else didn't really do anything. JAT spent the entire game sort of weakly sheeping people, it wasn't really clear to me that he was town. Artanis and CC were mostly afk and while that makes Artanis more likely to be scum, his level of activity dropped to a point where anybody could argue that he was just neglectfully inactive. Kush did nothing as usual except aggravate half the town by existing. Aside from the players I mentioned before I can't remember anything that the rest did. To read them properly I'd have to go back to my notes to remember what was the thing in their filter that swung the strongest. Did you have strong town reads on all of them? | ||
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justanothertownie
16309 Posts
Disappointing how it ended. On January 09 2014 21:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Insta re-roll roles and go? I would be down... Oh, the fishy comment on Artanis/CC was me after Rayn directed my attention at them. Well played rayn btw. you were suspicious of all the scummers before the dickmove. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
On January 10 2014 00:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Overall I agree that it wasn't bad, but you have to ask: How many people after the lynch thought CC was scum? How many people did we have in the pool to lynch? If one of Artanis/CC died at some point do you think the players who would be left alive would have killed the other, after how they attacked each other? From a per-player standpoint it wasn't anything to cry home about. Aside from about 5 players everyone else didn't really do anything. JAT spent the entire game sort of weakly sheeping people, it wasn't really clear to me that he was town. Artanis and CC were mostly afk and while that makes Artanis more likely to be scum, his level of activity dropped to a point where anybody could argue that he was just neglectfully inactive. Kush did nothing as usual except aggravate half the town by existing. Aside from the players I mentioned before I can't remember anything that the rest did. To read them properly I'd have to go back to my notes to remember what was the thing in their filter that swung the strongest. Did you have strong town reads on all of them? i had artanis as scum in my notes I had mr CC as a town read regardless of any dick move analysis. If one of Artanis/CC died at some point do you think the players who would be left alive would have killed the other, after how they attacked each other? I don't know that's why we play the game out. Like i dont think you can expect every player to bleed townieness bugs. Would make for a boring game. Some players are better than others skill wise. And its kind of silly to predict on how the game will play out based on where your reads are as of now. Say we put some heat on jat maybe he comes out of it like yamato did maybe he doesn't. Maybe artanis picks up his activity and plays better maybe he doesn't. I didn't really have a problem with any player besides kush. regardless everybody was at least posting somewhat like i dont believe there was anyone with like 2 posts. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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justanothertownie
16309 Posts
On January 10 2014 00:54 iamperfection wrote: i had artanis as scum in my notes I had mr CC as a town read regardless of any dick move analysis. If one of Artanis/CC died at some point do you think the players who would be left alive would have killed the other, after how they attacked each other? I don't know that's why we play the game out. Like i dont think you can expect every player to bleed townieness bugs. Would make for a boring game. Some players are better than others skill wise. And its kind of silly to predict on how the game will play out based on where your reads are as of now. Say we put some heat on jat maybe he comes out of it like yamato did maybe he doesn't. Maybe artanis picks up his activity and plays better maybe he doesn't. I didn't really have a problem with any player besides kush. regardless everybody was at least posting somewhat like i dont believe there was anyone with like 2 posts. I tend to look townier the longer the games goes on. I admit that my Day1 play generally sucks and I am often attacked early on but in the later stages of the game I am almost always a universal townread. I think this might be similar for some other players. Predicting that nobody would lynch the second half of CC/Artanis in the end makes no sense. In my experience things like that have less influence on peoples reads the longer the game goes on. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 00:56 marvellosity wrote: I think bugs has rose-tinted spectacles of how games he used to play in were like... Not really. Activity used to be overall lower, but the number of useless players per game would be maybe 1-2. I decided to stop playing earlier this year because I was truly tired of 1.) playing with people like Kush. Even sinani and co did more than this guy 2.) trying to play a proper mini where people actually pull their own weight, regardless of alignment. And I will also say that activity seems higher because we have so few players now that consolidate posts. Almost everyone now is conversational, which actually could very well be a reason for the stark difference in activity between the most active and least active players. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
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justanothertownie
16309 Posts
On January 09 2014 21:55 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Our QT features 31 posts of which about 10 are Aquanim. I'm not sure it's worth posting. Could you post it anyways? | ||
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justanothertownie
16309 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:01 iamperfection wrote: that's not what i said. I said its pretty impossible to say for certain how the game will play out. I know. That part was more for bugs than for you. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
You can say kush, ok. Useless != bad Like you ranted quite unfairly at jat for extended periods of time, but jat put in decent effort. He was trying. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:00 justanothertownie wrote: I tend to look townier the longer the games goes on. I admit that my Day1 play generally sucks and I am often attacked early on but in the later stages of the game I am almost always a universal townread. I think this might be similar for some other players. Predicting that nobody would lynch the second half of CC/Artanis in the end makes no sense. In my experience things like that have less influence on peoples reads the longer the game goes on. Okay, well let me put it this way. I have won games from Artanis's position. My second scum game, 9 player mini. My partner got lynched day 1 and we still ended up winning. My point with regards to CC/artanis is that assuming neither was modkilled, as even the host said, I seriously doubt CC would have gotten serious lynch attention, ever. Towards lylo there are fewer players to kill but by that point the players who are left do not all that often make the best plays. And again, precedent exists for this. Similar thing to this game happened in June with GM's smurf mini. Scum got replaced instead of mod killed and the town didn't lynch the replacements...because they were replacements. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:05 wherebugsgo wrote: And again, precedent exists for this. Similar thing to this game happened in June with GM's smurf mini. Scum got replaced instead of mod killed and the town didn't lynch the replacements...because they were replacements. i think your underestimating the amount of wifom and deviousness that the scum who got lynched was able to place in thread. He was truly an artist of his craft. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:03 marvellosity wrote: Who would you say was 'useless' or 'didn't try' this game? You can say kush, ok. Useless != bad Like you ranted quite unfairly at jat for extended periods of time, but jat put in decent effort. He was trying. What were his reads? He was differentiable from Corazon for small, varying reasons. But you really can't say that some of these players would have been spared lynch if the scum team wasn't so weak. Come on, this happens so often I can't believe you're tryin to argue this. I feel like the results of the game are tinting your opinion. The results don't fucking matter. | ||
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justanothertownie
16309 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Okay, well let me put it this way. I have won games from Artanis's position. My second scum game, 9 player mini. My partner got lynched day 1 and we still ended up winning. My point with regards to CC/artanis is that assuming neither was modkilled, as even the host said, I seriously doubt CC would have gotten serious lynch attention, ever. Towards lylo there are fewer players to kill but by that point the players who are left do not all that often make the best plays. And again, precedent exists for this. Similar thing to this game happened in June with GM's smurf mini. Scum got replaced instead of mod killed and the town didn't lynch the replacements...because they were replacements. I don't say that it is impossible. But I also don't think it is very likely. I am pretty confident we could have figured this out with this town. Whatever, this is all speculative. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:09 justanothertownie wrote: I don't say that it is impossible. But I also don't think it is very likely. I am pretty confident we could have figured this out with this town. Whatever, this is all speculative. Again, the precedent already exists for what I am saying. Scum being weak was a very very strong factor in our favor. E: I' m also not purposely trying to be a downer. I'm just concerned that the take back from this game is going to be that "town played fine" and people aren't going to change their attitudes about how they approach the game. Scum play has notoriously been awful, so when a team of relatively decent scum comes along they end up wrecking face. It's actually scary that people have such poor memories when it comes to how games can be lost so quickly even when the results are good if the process is shitty. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:08 wherebugsgo wrote: What were his reads? He was differentiable from Corazon for small, varying reasons. But you really can't say that some of these players would have been spared lynch if the scum team wasn't so weak. Come on, this happens so often I can't believe you're tryin to argue this. I feel like the results of the game are tinting your opinion. The results don't fucking matter. Oh, don't you dare, bugs, my thinking isn't that shallow ^^ I've been around in plenty of games you've played in, and I've read a bunch of others from before i came to the forum. jat's level of effort/contribution is in no way below the "average" standard 2,3,4 years ago or whatever. Townies have and will always struggle with day 1, some townies will play better than others, not everyone is going to be bleeding town from their pores in every single game at every single moment, and not every townie is going to be catching mafia left right and centre Town didn't magically have 70%+ winning rates in years gone by... I'm picking at this because the complaints you're making are possibly generally valid in the current TL meta, but I think they're pretty unfair when applied to the players in this game in particular. Almost everyone was trying to at least a somewhat decent extent. | ||
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justanothertownie
16309 Posts
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