oh it was you with the horrible win condition! the one about killing masons? I seem to recall you being quite selfless.

thrawn: exactly. Similar things happen to me quite regularly actually.
edit: like it's a difficult balance between believing in what you think and listening to other people. Because you have to listen to other people because sometimes you're wrong. But sometimes they're wrong too... and ugh

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 17:23 GMT

#1462

I should make a "rayn plays" guide. I am sad people don't get what i am trying to do with my shit in games.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

January 10 2014 17:24 GMT

#1463

yeah that's not the fault of other people dear

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 17:29 GMT

#1464

No my stuff is foolproof. Like claiming i nuked obvious town Meapak in NWM which made Ace scumclaim. And saving Oats in Desert (+i wanted to get night hit but Oats didn't play along), or asking geript if he thinks his hydra partner is scum in Bluelightz game which totally outed him as town. Or claiming cop for "confirmed town status" 1h into the game because you can't possibly live after N2 or town has lost anyways.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

January 10 2014 17:30 GMT

#1465

Or claiming veteran in Desert meaning mafia knew not to hit you, giving town one less lynch to solve the game

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 17:32 GMT

#1466

I find it kinda funny that people accuse me of "all the shit regarding fakeclaims lately" on TL Mafia.
My fakeclaims have never ever hurt the town because i plan them so that there can't be a possible scum motivation to do so.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 17:34 GMT

#1467

On January 11 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote:
Or claiming veteran in Desert meaning mafia knew not to hit you, giving town one less lynch to solve the game

Yeah but you see, i could not possibly know debears was a third party veteran. I thought there was a doctor and scum hit doctor's target and debears was claiming for town cred (as doc or their target was not informed).

idk, i thought i found scum, i found it impossible that there were 2 veterans (which was kinda true as he was 3p).

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

January 10 2014 17:35 GMT

#1468

yes, and there's always things you cannot possibly know, that's the point, and things that you might be wrong about

that literally lost the game for town because an extra lynch and town wins that game easily

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

January 10 2014 17:37 GMT

#1469

by the way, it's not just about the scum motivation, it's the confusion and distraction it causes. It's basically a quite egocentric way to play the game, because although it might work for you, it makes the game more difficult for all the other townies, which is hard to underestimate.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 17:45 GMT

#1470

Yeah i agree with the Desert thing. That was stupid.
But i am impatient and i can't help it.

On January 11 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote:
by the way, it's not just about the scum motivation, it's the confusion and distraction it causes. It's basically a quite egocentric way to play the game, because although it might work for you, it makes the game more difficult for all the other townies, which is hard to underestimate.

This is an interesting point. I have always considered it (obviously) from only my perspective, as i assume people are capable of thinking about scum/town motives and i feel like when i do stuff like that i am ALWAYS able to explain why, and why that is the only explanation (town motive) for what i do. But i know, you have a point, different people think differently. I should probably take that into account too.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

January 10 2014 17:51 GMT

#1471

yeah. It's like when you're scum you can always see really obviously all the scummy things your team-mates do, and the mistakes you make. Because you have the perfect information.

Much like when you're making your plays it's really obvious to you because you're in possession of all the information. But all the townies in the game are already worrying about every single player in the game + who is mafia + all the other interactions and then they have to worry about figuring out what you are doing too. And it's not so easy for other people to know what you're doing when they're not in your head and they have a bunch of other things to think about and a game to read as well.

edit: and when they are thinking about your plays, they are not thinking about who else is mafia. That's time they have to spend figuring out your (townie) motivation instead of looking into the motivation of actual mafia players.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 17:56 GMT

#1472

You are right and it's been proven multiple times. That's also why i stopped.

I could (maybe) find townies / mafia with but it does not matter if people don't agree (for whatever reason is irrelevant).

marvellosity

United Kingdom36160 Posts

January 10 2014 18:00 GMT

#1473

it's always a little bit interesting to think about the ripple effects the actions of one player makes

it's why i always advise on simple + straightforward play in almost all circumstances

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

January 10 2014 18:02 GMT

#1474

Also i never ever never never fakeclaim as mafia unless i have to. That's dumb. My confidence in my scumplay does not allow me to do that regardless what whoever thinks. And that's why thrawn was mafia in Extractor trick.

+ Show Spoiler +

also yamato was mafia.

justanothertownie

16317 Posts

January 10 2014 18:05 GMT

#1475

On January 11 2014 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well this is what at least i do every game.
It usually also works, if not for my team then for the opposite team. haha

I think in mafia games the biggest flaw for people is that they are afraid to make mistakes.

This explains many things. ^^

mkfuba07

United States1151 Posts

January 10 2014 18:09 GMT

#1476

Haha, I was going to quote that exact post. Making mistakes terrifies me.

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

January 10 2014 18:37 GMT

#1477

On January 11 2014 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah i agree with the Desert thing. That was stupid.
But i am impatient and i can't help it.

Show nested quote +

Haven't I told you this like 100 times? lol
Also asking Geript in bluelightz really didn't show anything---it gave you what you wanted and you interpreted as a towntell but objectively his answer was not a towntell.

Blazinghand

United States25550 Posts

January 10 2014 18:37 GMT

#1478

On January 10 2014 01:08 iamperfection wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2014 01:05 wherebugsgo wrote:

On January 10 2014 01:00 justanothertownie wrote:

On January 10 2014 00:54 iamperfection wrote:

On January 10 2014 00:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
Overall I agree that it wasn't bad, but you have to ask:

How many people after the lynch thought CC was scum?

How many people did we have in the pool to lynch?

If one of Artanis/CC died at some point do you think the players who would be left alive would have killed the other, after how they attacked each other?

From a per-player standpoint it wasn't anything to cry home about. Aside from about 5 players everyone else didn't really do anything. JAT spent the entire game sort of weakly sheeping people, it wasn't really clear to me that he was town. Artanis and CC were mostly afk and while that makes Artanis more likely to be scum, his level of activity dropped to a point where anybody could argue that he was just neglectfully inactive.

Kush did nothing as usual except aggravate half the town by existing.

Aside from the players I mentioned before I can't remember anything that the rest did. To read them properly I'd have to go back to my notes to remember what was the thing in their filter that swung the strongest.

Did you have strong town reads on all of them?

i had artanis as scum in my notes

I had mr CC as a town read regardless of any dick move analysis.

If one of Artanis/CC died at some point do you think the players who would be left alive would have killed the other, after how they attacked each other?

I don't know that's why we play the game out.

Like i dont think you can expect every player to bleed townieness bugs. Would make for a boring game. Some players are better than others skill wise. And its kind of silly to predict on how the game will play out based on where your reads are as of now. Say we put some heat on jat maybe he comes out of it like yamato did maybe he doesn't. Maybe artanis picks up his activity and plays better maybe he doesn't. I didn't really have a problem with any player besides kush.

regardless everybody was at least posting somewhat like i dont believe there was anyone with like 2 posts.

I tend to look townier the longer the games goes on. I admit that my Day1 play generally sucks and I am often attacked early on but in the later stages of the game I am almost always a universal townread. I think this might be similar for some other players.
Predicting that nobody would lynch the second half of CC/Artanis in the end makes no sense. In my experience things like that have less influence on peoples reads the longer the game goes on.

And again, precedent exists for this. Similar thing to this game happened in June with GM's smurf mini. Scum got replaced instead of mod killed and the town didn't lynch the replacements...because they were replacements.

i think your underestimating the amount of wifom and deviousness that the scum who got lynched was able to place in thread. He was truly an artist of his craft.

*bows*