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A Quiet Game of Mini Mafia - Page 73

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marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
January 10 2014 16:04 GMT
#1441
Yes, the thing about the "big lynch" is that it's often thought of like that because everyone doesn't agree with you really. If everyone agrees with you easily then it's more of a group lynch. So it takes a lot of responsibility.

Like even I didn't have the balls to push rayn on my own in day 2 of ## mafia. Too much effort.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 10 2014 16:04 GMT
#1442
On January 11 2014 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I can tell you WoS if you are looking for big lynch / play games be prepared to fuck up royally in at least 70% of the time. That's annoying, at least if you are not able to laugh at yourself after the game.

Oh I usually can, even in WC2 itself where I completely blew it with my Vanesco read. (Not that it made a difference anyway)
It's okay, starting in the next couple games I play I think I'm going to try some slightly different styles and see what happens.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 10 2014 16:07 GMT
#1443
On January 11 2014 01:04 marvellosity wrote:
Yes, the thing about the "big lynch" is that it's often thought of like that because everyone doesn't agree with you really. If everyone agrees with you easily then it's more of a group lynch. So it takes a lot of responsibility.

Like even I didn't have the balls to push rayn on my own in day 2 of ## mafia. Too much effort.

marv our day is day 3. It always happens there. <3
table for two on a tv tray
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
January 10 2014 16:10 GMT
#1444
I'll take your word for it. I didn't read Desert Mafia after night 2, lol
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 10 2014 16:12 GMT
#1445
I wanted to lynch you over a guy who was confirmed scum to me.
table for two on a tv tray
ObviousOne
Profile Joined April 2012
United States3704 Posts
January 10 2014 16:12 GMT
#1446
On January 11 2014 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other.
Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.)

Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi.
Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell.

I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well?
Fear is the only darkness. ~Destiny Fan Club operator~
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-10 16:15:15
January 10 2014 16:14 GMT
#1447
On January 11 2014 01:12 ObviousOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other.
Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.)

Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi.
Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell.

I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well?

You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2.
table for two on a tv tray
ObviousOne
Profile Joined April 2012
United States3704 Posts
January 10 2014 16:17 GMT
#1448
On January 11 2014 01:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 01:12 ObviousOne wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other.
Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.)

Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi.
Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell.

I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well?

You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2.

I remember being called scummy for various things that were generally hashed out through Day 1. I didn't think I was stellar but thank you for the compliment :D

I do know I need to work on looking at AND writing about the motivation behind posts more often as when people look at my posts they tend to see "he's just quoting their posts" instead of my ever really explaining what the reasons are behind how I find those posts scummy. Something I'm going to try to do in the next revision of my play when I start up again.
Fear is the only darkness. ~Destiny Fan Club operator~
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 10 2014 16:18 GMT
#1449
On January 11 2014 01:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 01:12 ObviousOne wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other.
Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.)

Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi.
Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell.

I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well?

You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2.

I'm not sure you can say 'obvious town' from a scum perspective especially if the rest of the thread at the time didn't agree. I think a situation like that is relative. Like I believed I was 'obvious town' but once again people saw fit to consistently vote you and Umasi in.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 10 2014 16:21 GMT
#1450
On January 11 2014 01:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 01:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 01:12 ObviousOne wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other.
Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.)

Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi.
Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell.

I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well?

You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2.

I'm not sure you can say 'obvious town' from a scum perspective especially if the rest of the thread at the time didn't agree. I think a situation like that is relative. Like I believed I was 'obvious town' but once again people saw fit to consistently vote you and Umasi in.

We shot ObviousOne because we thought you and him were the most obvious townies for people (at least after the night kill and when people actually re-evaluate D1 and N1). The reason we did not shoot you was because i thought you 100% won a blue role with me & Umasi and i blue-vigged you. But lol, Cephiro?!?!?
table for two on a tv tray
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 10 2014 16:29 GMT
#1451
On January 11 2014 01:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 01:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 01:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 01:12 ObviousOne wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
On January 11 2014 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
But WC2 was probably one of your best town games i have seen and you were one of the few townies who should not be blamed about the loss. There is no reason to feel demotivated because of that.

I'm pretty curious about WC2, because the sheer mention of that game infuriates me like no other.
Which townies DO you feel can be blamed for that loss? (No hurt feelings here, I'm interested in your opinion.)

Everyone but you, thrawn and Koshi.
Okay to be fair OO played quite well aswell.

I was like 100% wrong about my scum reads in that game, all four of my suspects were town. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, in what way did you mean I played quite well?

You were obviously town. I don't have a problem of defending my team on D2, i am more afraid of people i can't possibly lynch in any way. And you being wrong on N1 does not mean you will be wrong at the end of D2.

I'm not sure you can say 'obvious town' from a scum perspective especially if the rest of the thread at the time didn't agree. I think a situation like that is relative. Like I believed I was 'obvious town' but once again people saw fit to consistently vote you and Umasi in.

We shot ObviousOne because we thought you and him were the most obvious townies for people (at least after the night kill and when people actually re-evaluate D1 and N1). The reason we did not shoot you was because i thought you 100% won a blue role with me & Umasi and i blue-vigged you. But lol, Cephiro?!?!?

lol I wish I could believe that it was some massively understood and secret town plan not to elect me because they knew you'd waste your blue-vig on me, but yeah just bad play it seems lol.
I think I voted thrawn both times.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-10 17:05:11
January 10 2014 16:51 GMT
#1452
some excerpts that I think are relevant to what I was trying to say earlier

+ Show Spoiler +
"When you consistently win with something it's only natural that your belief in the validity of your
strategy is reinforced constantly. For progamers this is a great way to test the strength of their ideas. If
they keep winning with it, it's probably a good strategy because they are testing it against the very best.
That however does not apply to foreigners testing their ideas against other foreigners. If Flash shows up to
the MSL nals with 1 base bio openings he is going to get mercilessly crushed because Jaedong will know
how to beat it. But foreigners can easily go higher than even b- with such atrocious strategies because they
play against people who don't know how to react at all. The problem only grows worse because they believe
their ideas are correct because they reinforce their beliefs by beating clueless opponents. When such things
are possible, it's no wonder the overall strategic understanding becomes warped."

"Losing to stupid things will happen and there might be a point where you can beat a decent player
who plays correctly yet lose to a poor one who uses inferior strategies. This bizarre situation occurs because
you are jumping over a large period of growth by rigorously learning from the correct ideas (those by the
pros) instead of learning much slower, but more incrementally, by personal trial and error. Thus there will
come a point when you have a gap in your knowledge: you understand what is right, but not why it is
right, and thus do not have the know how without a direct example of how to defeat inferior ideas. Seeking
explanations certainly does help here as the accuracy on solved problems is usually better than for unsolved
ones, but on its own it might not be enough. If you have the skill to play as other races, playing from the
other side of the eld is a great x. Try playing that 1 base bio against a bunch of Zergs and see what
happens. It really helps to feel, not just read about, the problems from the other POV. Regardless, this is
a problem that will vanish after your understanding grows, but it may make a painful bump in the road.
The worst part about the second problem is that due to the inherent nature of learning, the initial period
of growth is always slow and will show little results. A beginning student cannot e ectively comprehend the
nature of what they are seeing because they have not built the mental framework to place it in: to them an
SC game, especially a pro one, is just a series of actions happening for seemingly incomprehensible reasons.
They can't understand their own games, so how could they even begin to relate to one played many levels
higher? The slow growth during this period can easily lead to discouragement and is a stumbling block for
many people; the inability to establish a mental framework is likely the reason why only a small fraction of
SC players can ever get above the level of a d/d+ iccup player."

from the same guide, a quote from iloveoov

"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape.""


from "How to Improve" by Ver.

edit - the BW guide, not the one on this forum
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-10 16:53:52
January 10 2014 16:52 GMT
#1453
"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape."

Well this is what at least i do every game.
It usually also works, if not for my team then for the opposite team. haha

I think in mafia games the biggest flaw for people is that they are afraid to make mistakes.
table for two on a tv tray
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
January 10 2014 16:54 GMT
#1454
On January 11 2014 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape."

Well this is what at least i do every game.
It usually also works, if not for my team then for the opposite team. haha

I think in mafia games the biggest flaw for people is that they are afraid to make mistakes.

Amen, I'm often terrified to do the wrong thing, and I'm hardly a shrinking violet of this forum...
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 10 2014 17:02 GMT
#1455
I remember when in RTP on D1 i attacked marv on D1 for something i thought was scummy. It was something like my 3rd game here or so. Multiple people told me to cut it off "because we are not lynching marv anyway on D1". That was one of the stupidest arguments i have ever heard. Then came in wise Palmar and told "marv hangs like any other player if he is scum". And i was happy again.
table for two on a tv tray
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 10 2014 17:02 GMT
#1456
On January 11 2014 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape."

Well this is what at least i do every game.
It usually also works, if not for my team then for the opposite team. haha

I think in mafia games the biggest flaw for people is that they are afraid to make mistakes.

I'm less afraid to be confident and assertive than I used to be, but there are other 'mistakes' that I am afraid to make and I often find myself curbing certain posts I am about to make as a result as town because I am afraid someone will view it in a bad light for whatever reason. Sometimes I get called out anyway despite me not seeing anything wrong with what I post (ie. the entry posts we talked about on TS, Rayn) and I don't recognize my mistakes, and other times what I think may be a mistake really wouldn't have been.

I don't think 'mistake' in mafia is always as clear---there is not always a very clear 'right' or 'wrong' thing to post/do, and even when there are, often those things are susceptible to change as the TL meta changes.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
January 10 2014 17:04 GMT
#1457
On January 11 2014 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I remember when in RTP on D1 i attacked marv on D1 for something i thought was scummy. It was something like my 3rd game here or so. Multiple people told me to cut it off "because we are not lynching marv anyway on D1". That was one of the stupidest arguments i have ever heard. Then came in wise Palmar and told "marv hangs like any other player if he is scum". And i was happy again.

Should have just told you to cut it out because you were wrong instead :p
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 10 2014 17:06 GMT
#1458
On January 11 2014 02:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't recognize my mistakes, and other times what I think may be a mistake really wouldn't have been.

I don't think 'mistake' in mafia is always as clear---there is not always a very clear 'right' or 'wrong' thing to post/do, and even when there are, often those things are susceptible to change as the TL meta changes.

That's why i usually talk with marv in PM's after... nearly every single game. All mistakes and "mistakes" are not so black and white and it's nice to have an another perspective on things even if you do not 100% agree what was / would have been the best play.
table for two on a tv tray
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
January 10 2014 17:07 GMT
#1459
Yeah, one of the reasons I decided not to even post my Umasi case after your claim is that I desperately didn't want to be the tinfoil townie that threw the game by lynching a claimed cop.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
January 10 2014 17:07 GMT
#1460
On January 11 2014 02:04 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2014 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I remember when in RTP on D1 i attacked marv on D1 for something i thought was scummy. It was something like my 3rd game here or so. Multiple people told me to cut it off "because we are not lynching marv anyway on D1". That was one of the stupidest arguments i have ever heard. Then came in wise Palmar and told "marv hangs like any other player if he is scum". And i was happy again.

Should have just told you to cut it out because you were wrong instead :p

Haha yeah. I could have also lynched Acrofales but i had this horrible horrible win condition and i needed him alive for later town credit.
table for two on a tv tray
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