EPTA Quiet Game of Mini Mafia - Page 69
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:12 marvellosity wrote: Oh, don't you dare, bugs, my thinking isn't that shallow ^^ I've been around in plenty of games you've played in, and I've read a bunch of others from before i came to the forum. jat's level of effort/contribution is in no way below the "average" standard 2,3,4 years ago or whatever. Townies have and will always struggle with day 1, some townies will play better than others, not everyone is going to be bleeding town from their pores in every single game at every single moment, and not every townie is going to be catching mafia left right and centre Town didn't magically have 70%+ winning rates in years gone by... I'm picking at this because the complaints you're making are possibly generally valid in the current TL meta, but I think they're pretty unfair when applied to the players in this game in particular. Almost everyone was trying to at least a somewhat decent extent. wtf? You weren't there for those games, you don't even understand. You also dodged my question, what were his reads?? Most of the reads in this game were supplied by around 3-5 people. And you also know just as well as I do that results don't matter and they are a poor predictor of the success of a play style. This town didn't do anything above average. Do you think the scum were average? Below average, certainly. So think, what happens when the scum are not?? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Suffice to say I think your classification of the level of play and what is generally expected of townies is quite a long way off base. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:17 marvellosity wrote: it's nothing to do with you, jat darling <3 It isn't, I'm just making an example. Because I believe marv is wrong. I think Ace/BC would probably back me up on this because they tend to have similar opinions about what would happen if scum pull their own weight. It's about both things in combination, really. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:20 marvellosity wrote: ok, you're not going to get this. I'm not claiming this town were amazing, or that mafia weren't weak (they were) - rather that the large majority of townies were putting in reasonable effort, whether they were playing well or not Suffice to say I think your classification of the level of play and what is generally expected of townies is quite a long way off base. So do you think that town would have won if scum this game played better? I honestly don't. E: like, the standard seems to have been lowered from "establish towniness by making reads" to just "establish towniness" which is just fucked up. It means any scum who is able to do that even without having strong fake reads will just stomp all over the place. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
The point is you're coming in here saying you don't want to play anymore because townies aren't trying or pulling their weight or whatever That's a different complaint from "townies are bad". The result of the game is irrelevant (as you kindly pointed out) You can look at townies in this game and say maybe they didn't play excellently, but nothing that says you don't want to play games like this? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
And BC and I are hardly weak players... That's just what happens from game to game, some people will play strongly, some will play weakly But as long as people are trying, then that's what really matters | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:28 thrawn2112 wrote: wait what is this game over? CONGRATULATIONS YOU WON!!!! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:25 marvellosity wrote: that's not the point? The point is you're coming in here saying you don't want to play anymore because townies aren't trying or pulling their weight or whatever That's a different complaint from "townies are bad". The result of the game is irrelevant (as you kindly pointed out) You can look at townies in this game and say maybe they didn't play excellently, but nothing that says you don't want to play games like this? Sure, maybe I need to explain myself a bit better. It's a matter of coin flip whether the scum team ends up having good players or crappy ones. I think the forum has consistently shown that most players have very little interest in playing scum, and because the majority of the playerbase doesn't really see good play all that often they can't emulate it either. (And that goes for both alignments) Supposing the next time if town is similar to this and the coin ends up flipping an average scum team the game will be awful. I've been there, and the most often it's happened is in the last year (most of my recent mini games, I have not enjoyed). I stopped playing large games because I didn't like how many people would afk in large games or just not really provide reads. That mentality has pushed into all games by now I feel. On January 10 2014 01:27 marvellosity wrote: Like christ, Palmar almost got me lynched a year ago in LVIII because I was playing terribly and I had no real reads, and I argued my way out of it and BC got lynched instead for doing nothing. And BC and I are hardly weak players... That's just what happens from game to game, some people will play strongly, some will play weakly But as long as people are trying, then that's what really matters Oh trust me, I remember being pretty pissed off about this :p LIX was really the only large game in a long time that I can remember that was enjoyable for me. The minis have been declining in quality too, I think it was a game Artanis hosted (magic, no themed?) that I also liked. I don't really recall any others except further back. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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justanothertownie
16330 Posts
YAY! ... | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:30 wherebugsgo wrote: Sure, maybe I need to explain myself a bit better. It's a matter of coin flip whether the scum team ends up having good players or crappy ones. I think the forum has consistently shown that most players have very little interest in playing scum, and because the majority of the playerbase doesn't really see good play all that often they can't emulate it either. (And that goes for both alignments) Supposing the next time if town is similar to this and the coin ends up flipping an average scum team the game will be awful. I've been there, and the most often it's happened is in the last year (most of my recent mini games, I have not enjoyed). I stopped playing large games because I didn't like how many people would afk in large games or just not really provide reads. That mentality has pushed into all games by now I feel. It seems like your just applying it to the wrong game here bugs. Like kush is really the only person you can be very disappointed in his play. And you cant really say the game would have been awful with different scum players who knows how the game plays out at that point. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:32 marvellosity wrote: Ok. I understand your angle, but I think you're being a little over-pessimistic, especially within the context of this game. I'm 99% sure this is because the game was won by town. I can guarantee that if town lost I'd be saying similar things and people would be agreeing with me. Cause, that's exactly what always happens. On January 10 2014 01:34 iamperfection wrote: It seems like your just applying it to the wrong game here bugs. Like kush is really the only person you can be very disappointed in his play. And you cant really say the game would have been awful with different scum players who knows how the game plays out at that point. Read above. I'm pretty sure the only reason you're saying this at all is because the game was won by town. It hasn't seemed to me like play has changed, which means, again, when scum are half decent the game will be very frustrating to play. That's basically just dependent on a couple players rolling scum who don't feel like afking their way to victory. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On January 10 2014 01:35 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm 99% sure this is because the game was won by town. I can guarantee that if town lost I'd be saying similar things and people would be agreeing with me. Cause, that's exactly what always happens. I'm 99% sure you're talking fucking bullshit. 1. iamperfection - clearly townie, effort, trying to figure out the game 2. Corazon - played scummy, got lynched for it 3. kushm4sta - kush 4. yamato77 - had a weak early game, did some weird things, but put in some effort, got a bit demoralised, avoided the lynch 5. wherebugsgo - tried to find mafia 6. raynpelikoneet - leadery & tried to find mafia 7. Mr. Cheesecake - floated about doing not much (scum) 8. justanothertownie - didn't have strong reads but was clearly invested in the game 9. gumshoe - afked due to feeling ill, was playing the game while he was here 10. Artanis[Xp] - sexy dutch 11. WaveofShadow - invested & wanted to find mafia 12. thrawn2112 - decent points and interested in finding mafia 13. mkfuba07 - low poster but found mafia and made sense yeah. Overall not bad at all. Not bad at all. Pretty good actually. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I'm dumb, you're right, town played fine. There are no problems here.  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On January 09 2014 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: thrawn i would really like to hear what was the intention behind saying this: That looked really bad. I don't think it'd bad. I think you might think it looks bad because it casts you in a negative light. What I was referring to was the horde of people who wanted to talk about policy lynching kush and when I argued about it they completely refused to talk about his alignment. I had to go to work soon and needed a place to park my vote and everyone in the thread was being silly, why wouldn't I want to talk to wbg? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
No matter how they respond you end up with something useful. The worst case is they give you something that doesn't really answer your question (or nothing at all) and even that is useful since you can use that to change/further reinforce your read of them, instead. | ||
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